All casters get the ability to cast rituals. It's not something special for Warlocks.
Current Warlock gets the ability to cast level 5 spells from level 9, level 3 spells at level 5.
What's the point in having 1st and 2nd level spells? Warlock's had invocations to get some of the utility those provide, but they don't provide meaningful combat power.
Warlocks will be holding onto their once per day level 3 spell, which for many campaigns is all they're going to get, hoping to have an opportunity to use it, praying it doesn't get counterspelled or dispelled, unable to even cast a counterspell, while Wizards and Sorcerers are throwing out level 3 spells two or three times a day.
I've seen people describe Warlocks as an Arcane Martial, with Eldritch Blast substituting for weapon attacks, but martials are still inferior to casters, so making Warlocks less of a caster just makes them worse.
All casters get the ability to cast rituals. It's not something special for Warlocks.
I was comparing New Warlock to Old there. Old Warlock didn't have Ritual Casting unless they burned a feat or burned their pact boon + invocation. Thus, gaining ritual casting baseline is a bigger step up for them than it is for, say, Wizard or Bard.
What's the point in having 1st and 2nd level spells? Warlock's had invocations to get some of the utility those provide, but they don't provide meaningful combat power.
Sure they do. Shield and Absorb Elements are very meaningful in combat, as are Silvery Barbs and Protection from Evil. So are Misty Step, Vortex Warp, (See) Invisibility, Mirror Image, Levitate... you have plenty of ways to contribute even without your 3rd-level MA, and that's without your invocations, pact boon, subclass features, or the fact that you get the strongest cantrip in the game.
The thing I hate most about the Mystic Arcanums for 3rd, 4th, and 5th level spells is how much the spell selection for a Warlock has been completely gutted.
Sure they can choose any spell they want from the arcana list - too bad this warlock only gets A SINGLE KNOWN SPELL of 4th level from warlock level 7 through 13. The current 5e warlock can learn two 4th level spells at level 7 and then a total of four at level 8. UA warlock gets just one - that means all the builds are going to be forced to choose only the most generally useful spell for those 6 levels and you'll probably only ever see a warlock make the same 2 or 3 choices for that spell.
This kills build variation and just makes the warlock a less fun class.
Oh yeah, I remember that build variation of a hexblade. You could cast Armor of Agathys + Shadow of Moil, or Shadow of Moil + Armor of Agathys. Also you could cast anything else, but anything else would suck.
To be clear, I'm focused spellcaster Warlocks in this thread. I agree that hexblades have pretty much been figured out and that this playtest offers the hexblade player some fun options and compelling perks.
Like I mentioned before though - warlock design has three different playstyles to consider (spell-sword/companion/caster). You think hexblade is one dimensional? I hear you, but that's not the only way to play warlock.
Just for the record, I regard Silvery Barbs as an abomination that shouldn't be in the game.
The way people are describing the nu-Warlock sounds like the way people speak positively about the monk. "I can use ki to run 500 feet in a turn." Okay, and why would I want to do that?
Invocations are utility spells, something that a Warlock with access to level 1 and 2 spells, and level 1 and 2 slots, is not short of. They had invocations because they didn't have low level spell slots, and now they do.
Eldritch Blast plus Agonizing Blast is, yes, good for ranged damage, but Warlocks had that already. They've excised the pact magic that gave Warlock its casting power, and inserted a half caster system that gives lots of utility options, but doesn't provide that power. Even if they inserted the level 3 Mystic Arcanum that Treantmonk thinks should be there to smooth out spell progression compared to a full caster.
If Pact of the Tome gets Agonizing Blast built in, why do the other Warlocks have to pay the AB tax? Just make EB do d10 + casting modifier damage. That would free up an invocation for more... Mystic Arcanum... I guess.
Silvery Barbs isn't that bad, it's just undercosted. If it were 1st level for the enemy reroll and 2nd level for the "steal advantage" function it would be fine. But even if you ban it, low level slots are still great to have.
The way people are describing the nu-Warlock sounds like the way people speak positively about the monk. "I can use ki to run 500 feet in a turn." Okay, and why would I want to do that?
You're comparing something niche like running 500 ft in a turn to things like Shield, Absorb Elements, Misty Step or Invisibility that routinely come up?
Invocations are utility spells, something that a Warlock with access to level 1 and 2 spells, and level 1 and 2 slots, is not short of. They had invocations because they didn't have low level spell slots, and now they do.
Sure but (a) invocations are very limited in what they can accomplish, and (b) even when you have a suite of valuable ones to choose from for your campaign, you only get a new one every odd level after gaining the feature so you have to pick them in a very prescribed order even without MA. Like Disguise Self at will is a great invocation, but it's not going to do much in combat, and combat challenges are the ones most likely to get you unalived at the end of the day.
If Pact of the Tome gets Agonizing Blast built in, why do the other Warlocks have to pay the AB tax? Just make EB do d10 + casting modifier damage. That would free up an invocation for more... Mystic Arcanum... I guess.
Tome gets AB and BoAS built in.
Chain gets Voice and Investment built in.
Blade gets Thirsting Blade and Hex Warrior (the important bit) built in.
I feel like the current version of the One DnD Warlock's design philosophy prioritized Hexblades and multiclassing dips into warlocks at the expense of the level 1-20 pure warlock.
The same way a cleric was better at casting Find Steed than a Paladin was, a sorcorer or wizard will be strictly better at casting Hex if they take a just a single level dip into warlock than a warlock will be on their own. A multiclass wizard(9)/warlock(1) can cast Hex more effectively than a level 16 warlock - that's heartbreaking for the pure warlock players.
The difficulty of designing a warlock is that they serve many masters (pun intended) - the warlock can be built as a gishy spell-blade, a summoner, or a pure dark spellcaster (at least in the OG warlock's case). Designing a new warlock that can still do all of those things AND fit into a revamped system is a tall order. I am absolutely one of those people who complained about not getting enough short rests and also wanting more pact slots. I'm also love a good level 1-20 magic focused warlock.
My preference is that the invocation Mystic Arcanum's are just removed entirely. Go back to the old ones. The new ones result in a net loss of invocations and don't even allow the new warlock to compete with the old warlock anyway in terms of known spells at higher levels (ie 5th edition warlock could have two level 4 spells known at warlock level 7, but One DnD warlock can only learn one 4th level spell until they reach warlock level 14 unless they multiclass).
Spell casting for the warlock can use a little work. I'm torn between two solutions:
1. Let warlocks keep their pact magic as is, but also give them 1/2 or 1/3 caster progression. This gives them a little more gas in the tank but also lets them keep that unique caster identity. Pact magic slots are regained on a short rest - spell slots are regained on a long rest.
2. Go back to pact magic as it was in 5th edition with no spell slots, but if the warlock is missing any pact magic slots they regain one at the start of each combat. This addresses the situation where a warlock is afraid to cast spells because they have so few spells to cast by letting them get one for free each combat. This scales appropriately with other full casters who will technically be able to cast a 5th level spell as many times as they have spell slots of 5th level or higher. Again - pact magic slots can be recovered on a short rest.
Out of curiosity, what solution do you prefer?
I think what would be best is to keep the 5e pact magic , with recharge on short and long rests, but have a system with more spell slots, but divided into high and low spell slots, with the high level spell slots being the same level as a full caster at the same level as the Warlock, and peaking at 2-3 high level spell slots. Then low level spell slots being decided to be of the appropriate power level, maybe 1-2 levels below the high level spell slots, peaking at 5-6 low level spell slots for a total of 7-9 spell slots at 20th level
One D&D Warlock has got a huge boost to power because it now has access to the full Arcane spell list rather than the crummy warlock one. 5e Warlock already has a version of Mystic Arcanum-as-invocation with all the "take an invocation to get one use of a good spell once per day" options : Bewitching Whispers, Dreadful Word, Minions of Chaos, Mire the Mind, Sculptor of Flesh, Sign of Ill Omen, Thief of Five Fates, Trickster's Escape, Undying Servitude.
One D&D Warlock can now get Hypnotic Pattern, Fire ball, Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, Bigby's Hand, Wall of Force, Telekinesis, Animate Objects using MA. They get full ritual casting meaning they don't need to waste an Invocation on Eldritch Sight, or Eyes of the Rune Keeper they can just learn Detect Magic and Comprehend Languages and ritual cast them instead.
With their plethora of low level spells they are super tanky with medium armour + Shield at level 1, and can EB freely all day long by Misty Stepping out of melee. And have way more utility with the freedom to cast Invisibility, Disguise Self, Silent Image, Suggestion, Charm Person, Levitate, with their plentiful low level slots.
5e Warlock was always overshadowed by other Arcane casters b/c their spell list just isn't good.
Yes, the warlocks spell list is definitely improved by getting the arcane list, no doubt about that.
Yes, MA is a lot better than all the shitty "Spell X, once per LR for one of your pact slots"-invocations.
And yes, with regard to number of spell slots and list of accessable spells the warlock was always behind the wizard.
But there is one thing the warlock is better at (regarding spellcasting): They can cast their highest level spells more often per LR! (assuming Tier 1/2 play)
This playtest warlock is just straight up worse at spellcasting than the sorc or wizard. So when I want to play a spellcaster, there is zero incentive to play a warlock now. Before, I could weigh consistency vs. nova power.
So, the old warlock is overshadowed by the full casters in terms of spell list and number of spell slots while the new version is overshadowed by them in every aspect except for spell list. Great!
Like many, I was initially disappointed with the changes made to 5e warlock when it transitioned to UA warlock. Fortunately, Chris (AKA Treantmonk) talked me down. Every warlock fan should watch this video: https://youtu.be/I11LOEFj0A8
Particularly watch Treantmonk’s explanation of how to juggle your Mystic Arcanums to maximize your spells without nerfing your invocations too badly. This starts at 45:40 (you might want to go a bit earlier to get all the explanation).
Still, I’m not completely satisfied with Treantmonk’s juggling of your Mystic Arcanums. At the end of it all, I thinks that you still have fewer Invocations to work with, and that is disappointing for those who have been waiting to get Devil’s Sight, Eldritch Mind, or whatever because they will now be out of reach due to your having to take multiple Mystic Arcanums instead. So here is my proposed solution:
Every UA Pact has an Invocation with “Prerequisite: 9th-level Warlock or Higher, Pact of the (insert pact) Feature”. (Except for Pact of the Talisman unless I missed it, but WoTC can just add one for Talisman). So I propose that each pact simply get their 9th level Pact Invocation for free at 9th level as a class feature. This frees up one invocation slot to be used for something else. As has been pointed out, Agonizing Blast should be given to all warlocks as a class feature. This would free up another “invocation tax” invocation for something else. Honestly, I would want more, but these are very small changes that I think are “just barely enough” to make me happy with UA Warlock. Alas, I had already submitted my survey before I came up with this idea.
Now, to say that I am 100% happy with the changes would be an exaggeration. But I think that WoTC is doing away with the short rest. I think that is pretty much set in stone now, and I’m not willing to die on that hill. So RIP short rest. I think doing away with the short rest will make the game better for most (but certainly not all) tables. WoTC needs to make some more changes to compensate for the loss of the short rest, but they can do that. A warlock example is Sanctuary Vessel for the Genie Warlock. It is currently gained at 10th level, but without the short rest benefit it is terribly nerfed. It should be moved to 5th level, which is when every wizard, bard, and twilight domain cleric now gets Leomund’s Tiny Hut anyway. Further, Leomund’s Tiny Hut is now on the Arcane Spell List, so many other classes will get it at 5th level now as well (including Warlocks). There is no longer much that is special about Sanctuary Vessel.
I’m sure that there are many other changes coming, but I think that with some minor tweaks like the above, most people will be happy with UA Warlock.
I don't disagree. Treantmonk's "solution" still leaves much to be desired. Yes, it does improve things, but not enough.
At the end of the day, the loss of the Warlock's "automatic upcast spell" and short rest recovery is a tough pill to swallow. But I don't think we are going to convince WoTC to do away with those changes. Sadly, that ship has most likely sailed.
I mean, if they give the UA Warlock a couple more invocation slots, add lots of cool invocations that can actually compete with MA and give them the patron spells at full caster rate Iit might actually be ok.
They should also change the free casting of the patron spells from 1/LR to 1/SR s.th. the warlock gets at least something on a short rest.
But since coming up with a lots of different invocations which are as powerfull as spells but still different from just casting a specific spell, and then also keeping them balanced seems like a lot of effort. Hence, I doubt that this is going to happen. Without giving the warlock access to better invocations though, half caster spells simply isn't enough.
At level 6, what is the maximum number of 3rd level spells the UA Warlock has prepared? When does that number increase?
At level 6 what is the maximum number of 3rd levels spells the 2014 warlock has prepared?
That! I think people tend to compare the versions at lvl 20. If you do that, sure the UA warlock has almost the spellcasting capabilities of a full caster. But on the levels where the game is actually played, it looks very different.
I mean, if they give the UA Warlock a couple more invocation slots, add lots of cool invocations that can actually compete with MA and give them the patron spells at full caster rate Iit might actually be ok.
They should also change the free casting of the patron spells from 1/LR to 1/SR s.th. the warlock gets at least something on a short rest.
But since coming up with a lots of different invocations which are as powerfull as spells but still different from just casting a specific spell, and then also keeping them balanced seems like a lot of effort. Hence, I doubt that this is going to happen. Without giving the warlock access to better invocations though, half caster spells simply isn't enough.
At level 6, what is the maximum number of 3rd level spells the UA Warlock has prepared? When does that number increase?
At level 6 what is the maximum number of 3rd levels spells the 2014 warlock has prepared?
That! I think people tend to compare the versions at lvl 20. If you do that, sure the UA warlock has almost the spellcasting capabilities of a full caster. But on the levels where the game is actually played, it looks very different.
At 20 they look worse imo. At 20 you do not get the eldritch blast is cool excuse even, as full casters have over 9000 spells to cast a day, eldritch blast is cast just to reminisce over the good old days .But here is the warlock with a far worse known spell list and some parlor tricks.
Personally I think the best solution to the resting issue for Warlocks is to give them back Pack Slots but now they only refill on long rest and warlocks get an ability that lets them refill their spell slots as an action x/times per long rest. (I waffle on the exact Number for X either being 2, 3, or Proficiency)
Personally I think the best solution to the resting issue for Warlocks is to give them back Pack Slots but now they only refill on long rest and warlocks get an ability that lets them refill their spell slots as an action x/times per long rest. (I waffle on the exact Number for X either being 2, 3, or Proficiency)
My suggestion was to take a page from the Magus in Pathfinder and give Warlocks two slots at the maximum level, and two at the level lower than that, so, for example, at level 9 they would have two level 5 slots and two level 4 slots. At level 5 they would have two level 3 slots and two level 2 slots. Unlike the current Warlock that's all the spell slots they ever get, and they recharge on a long rest, not a short rest.
They would also get an ability called (for wont of anything else) Eldritch Recovery at level 5, which allows them, once per long rest, to recharge all their expended spell slots with a 1 minute ritual. This increases to 2 uses at level 11, and 3 uses at level 17.
They have more spellcasting ability, and are no longer short rest dependent. At level 17, across the adventuring day, they could cast up to 6 level 5 spells, and 6 level 4 spells. That is three times as many level 5, and twice as many level 4 spells as a full caster, although, as usual, they don't have flexibility with lower level slots. They would still have Mystic Arcanum for levels 6, 7, 8, and 9 spells. They would still, unlike the playtest Warlock, rely on invocations for utility spells.
My biggest problem with the last proposed plan is that it forces the warlock to use invocations to cover basic functionality. Currently a warlock can drop a pair or more of top level spells, often more than once a day. Under the proposal they have to burn invocations to partially recreate that, using the invocations at 5 and 7 to simulate the effect. After that they’ll have to repeatedly burn invocations to get what used to be basic class functionality: a limited repertoire of higher level spells.
The practical effect is that the class would become boring because it’s most interesting aspect, the customization of invocations, would be gone.
my fix would be two things:
First, either go back to Mystic Arcana starting at 5th level so that a warlock always has a top level (3rd at 5th, 4th at 7th, etc) spell to use and a bit of variety. Or increase the number of invocations so they can buy these slots without losing variety.
Second, have patron spells become available at those same levels (2nd level spell at 3rd level, 3rd level spell at 5th level, etc).
In that way a 5th level warlock can pick a 3rd level spell to cast once a day, cast a 3rd level patron spell, have some low level spells for utility and not lose invocations which are generally more color than anything else.
I agree with the first of the OP's sentences, but that's about it. I'd like to see the bonuses for picking blade put off to level 3 (ie using caster stat for your melee attacks) but beyond that, I think I like the new warlock just fine. I'll miss my pact magic, but I think the new one is an improvement.
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I agree with the first of the OP's sentences, but that's about it. I'd like to see the bonuses for picking blade put off to level 3 (ie using caster stat for your melee attacks) but beyond that, I think I like the new warlock just fine. I'll miss my pact magic, but I think the new one is an improvement.
Meanwhile I am feeling quashed with the nerf-bat for the Celestial Tome-lock I had played. If I converted the character over, I'm losing a cantrip known (I had taken most of the versatile ones I could grab) - more of a lost ribbon feature, but the new tome also grants 2 ritual spells BUT NOT RITUAL CASTING, so that is a larger hit, since the old invocation granted ritual casting from all classes provided you could find a place to learn it. Did I mention the game was in Strixhaven? And lastly, the new Tomelock forces the casting stat to Wisdom or Intelligence, when before I had been playing the party face. And getting a short rest wasn't a huge problem under the DM who ran that campaign, so the change from Pact Magic to 1/2 casting would certainly be felt. Changing to the Playtest version wouldn't just nerf my character, but sink it completely.
All casters get the ability to cast rituals. It's not something special for Warlocks.
Current Warlock gets the ability to cast level 5 spells from level 9, level 3 spells at level 5.
What's the point in having 1st and 2nd level spells? Warlock's had invocations to get some of the utility those provide, but they don't provide meaningful combat power.
Warlocks will be holding onto their once per day level 3 spell, which for many campaigns is all they're going to get, hoping to have an opportunity to use it, praying it doesn't get counterspelled or dispelled, unable to even cast a counterspell, while Wizards and Sorcerers are throwing out level 3 spells two or three times a day.
I've seen people describe Warlocks as an Arcane Martial, with Eldritch Blast substituting for weapon attacks, but martials are still inferior to casters, so making Warlocks less of a caster just makes them worse.
I was comparing New Warlock to Old there. Old Warlock didn't have Ritual Casting unless they burned a feat or burned their pact boon + invocation. Thus, gaining ritual casting baseline is a bigger step up for them than it is for, say, Wizard or Bard.
Sure they do. Shield and Absorb Elements are very meaningful in combat, as are Silvery Barbs and Protection from Evil. So are Misty Step, Vortex Warp, (See) Invisibility, Mirror Image, Levitate... you have plenty of ways to contribute even without your 3rd-level MA, and that's without your invocations, pact boon, subclass features, or the fact that you get the strongest cantrip in the game.
To be clear, I'm focused spellcaster Warlocks in this thread. I agree that hexblades have pretty much been figured out and that this playtest offers the hexblade player some fun options and compelling perks.
Like I mentioned before though - warlock design has three different playstyles to consider (spell-sword/companion/caster). You think hexblade is one dimensional? I hear you, but that's not the only way to play warlock.
Just for the record, I regard Silvery Barbs as an abomination that shouldn't be in the game.
The way people are describing the nu-Warlock sounds like the way people speak positively about the monk. "I can use ki to run 500 feet in a turn." Okay, and why would I want to do that?
Invocations are utility spells, something that a Warlock with access to level 1 and 2 spells, and level 1 and 2 slots, is not short of. They had invocations because they didn't have low level spell slots, and now they do.
Eldritch Blast plus Agonizing Blast is, yes, good for ranged damage, but Warlocks had that already. They've excised the pact magic that gave Warlock its casting power, and inserted a half caster system that gives lots of utility options, but doesn't provide that power. Even if they inserted the level 3 Mystic Arcanum that Treantmonk thinks should be there to smooth out spell progression compared to a full caster.
If Pact of the Tome gets Agonizing Blast built in, why do the other Warlocks have to pay the AB tax? Just make EB do d10 + casting modifier damage. That would free up an invocation for more... Mystic Arcanum... I guess.
You're comparing something niche like running 500 ft in a turn to things like Shield, Absorb Elements, Misty Step or Invisibility that routinely come up?
Sure but (a) invocations are very limited in what they can accomplish, and (b) even when you have a suite of valuable ones to choose from for your campaign, you only get a new one every odd level after gaining the feature so you have to pick them in a very prescribed order even without MA. Like Disguise Self at will is a great invocation, but it's not going to do much in combat, and combat challenges are the ones most likely to get you unalived at the end of the day.
Tome gets AB and BoAS built in.
Chain gets Voice and Investment built in.
Blade gets Thirsting Blade and Hex Warrior (the important bit) built in.
I think what would be best is to keep the 5e pact magic , with recharge on short and long rests, but have a system with more spell slots, but divided into high and low spell slots, with the high level spell slots being the same level as a full caster at the same level as the Warlock, and peaking at 2-3 high level spell slots. Then low level spell slots being decided to be of the appropriate power level, maybe 1-2 levels below the high level spell slots, peaking at 5-6 low level spell slots for a total of 7-9 spell slots at 20th level
One D&D Warlock has got a huge boost to power because it now has access to the full Arcane spell list rather than the crummy warlock one. 5e Warlock already has a version of Mystic Arcanum-as-invocation with all the "take an invocation to get one use of a good spell once per day" options : Bewitching Whispers, Dreadful Word, Minions of Chaos, Mire the Mind, Sculptor of Flesh, Sign of Ill Omen, Thief of Five Fates, Trickster's Escape, Undying Servitude.
One D&D Warlock can now get Hypnotic Pattern, Fire ball, Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, Bigby's Hand, Wall of Force, Telekinesis, Animate Objects using MA. They get full ritual casting meaning they don't need to waste an Invocation on Eldritch Sight, or Eyes of the Rune Keeper they can just learn Detect Magic and Comprehend Languages and ritual cast them instead.
With their plethora of low level spells they are super tanky with medium armour + Shield at level 1, and can EB freely all day long by Misty Stepping out of melee. And have way more utility with the freedom to cast Invisibility, Disguise Self, Silent Image, Suggestion, Charm Person, Levitate, with their plentiful low level slots.
5e Warlock was always overshadowed by other Arcane casters b/c their spell list just isn't good.
Yes, the warlocks spell list is definitely improved by getting the arcane list, no doubt about that.
Yes, MA is a lot better than all the shitty "Spell X, once per LR for one of your pact slots"-invocations.
And yes, with regard to number of spell slots and list of accessable spells the warlock was always behind the wizard.
But there is one thing the warlock is better at (regarding spellcasting): They can cast their highest level spells more often per LR! (assuming Tier 1/2 play)
This playtest warlock is just straight up worse at spellcasting than the sorc or wizard. So when I want to play a spellcaster, there is zero incentive to play a warlock now. Before, I could weigh consistency vs. nova power.
So, the old warlock is overshadowed by the full casters in terms of spell list and number of spell slots while the new version is overshadowed by them in every aspect except for spell list. Great!
Like many, I was initially disappointed with the changes made to 5e warlock when it transitioned to UA warlock. Fortunately, Chris (AKA Treantmonk) talked me down. Every warlock fan should watch this video: https://youtu.be/I11LOEFj0A8
Particularly watch Treantmonk’s explanation of how to juggle your Mystic Arcanums to maximize your spells without nerfing your invocations too badly. This starts at 45:40 (you might want to go a bit earlier to get all the explanation).
Still, I’m not completely satisfied with Treantmonk’s juggling of your Mystic Arcanums. At the end of it all, I thinks that you still have fewer Invocations to work with, and that is disappointing for those who have been waiting to get Devil’s Sight, Eldritch Mind, or whatever because they will now be out of reach due to your having to take multiple Mystic Arcanums instead. So here is my proposed solution:
Every UA Pact has an Invocation with “Prerequisite: 9th-level Warlock or Higher, Pact of the (insert pact) Feature”. (Except for Pact of the Talisman unless I missed it, but WoTC can just add one for Talisman). So I propose that each pact simply get their 9th level Pact Invocation for free at 9th level as a class feature. This frees up one invocation slot to be used for something else. As has been pointed out, Agonizing Blast should be given to all warlocks as a class feature. This would free up another “invocation tax” invocation for something else. Honestly, I would want more, but these are very small changes that I think are “just barely enough” to make me happy with UA Warlock. Alas, I had already submitted my survey before I came up with this idea.
Now, to say that I am 100% happy with the changes would be an exaggeration. But I think that WoTC is doing away with the short rest. I think that is pretty much set in stone now, and I’m not willing to die on that hill. So RIP short rest. I think doing away with the short rest will make the game better for most (but certainly not all) tables. WoTC needs to make some more changes to compensate for the loss of the short rest, but they can do that. A warlock example is Sanctuary Vessel for the Genie Warlock. It is currently gained at 10th level, but without the short rest benefit it is terribly nerfed. It should be moved to 5th level, which is when every wizard, bard, and twilight domain cleric now gets Leomund’s Tiny Hut anyway. Further, Leomund’s Tiny Hut is now on the Arcane Spell List, so many other classes will get it at 5th level now as well (including Warlocks). There is no longer much that is special about Sanctuary Vessel.
I’m sure that there are many other changes coming, but I think that with some minor tweaks like the above, most people will be happy with UA Warlock.
Nathair Sgiathach is my co-pilot
I think we all saw his video. A lot of us just don't agree with him and think his reasoning was not just flawed it was massively flawed.
I don't disagree. Treantmonk's "solution" still leaves much to be desired. Yes, it does improve things, but not enough.
At the end of the day, the loss of the Warlock's "automatic upcast spell" and short rest recovery is a tough pill to swallow. But I don't think we are going to convince WoTC to do away with those changes. Sadly, that ship has most likely sailed.
Nathair Sgiathach is my co-pilot
Everyone who says the UA warlock is better, can you answer a quick question for me:
At level 6, what is the maximum number of 3rd level spells the UA Warlock has prepared? When does that number increase?
At level 6 what is the maximum number of 3rd levels spells the 2014 warlock has prepared?
For simplicity, do not count hypothetical rituals from pact of the tome or invocation granted spells.
Which do you prefer and why?
Also I know warlock is a “spells known” class, just using the language that is in the new material.
I mean, if they give the UA Warlock a couple more invocation slots, add lots of cool invocations that can actually compete with MA and give them the patron spells at full caster rate Iit might actually be ok.
They should also change the free casting of the patron spells from 1/LR to 1/SR s.th. the warlock gets at least something on a short rest.
But since coming up with a lots of different invocations which are as powerfull as spells but still different from just casting a specific spell, and then also keeping them balanced seems like a lot of effort. Hence, I doubt that this is going to happen. Without giving the warlock access to better invocations though, half caster spells simply isn't enough.
That! I think people tend to compare the versions at lvl 20. If you do that, sure the UA warlock has almost the spellcasting capabilities of a full caster. But on the levels where the game is actually played, it looks very different.
At 20 they look worse imo. At 20 you do not get the eldritch blast is cool excuse even, as full casters have over 9000 spells to cast a day, eldritch blast is cast just to reminisce over the good old days .But here is the warlock with a far worse known spell list and some parlor tricks.
Warlock ist less flexible with its 6+ lvl spells but the total number of prepared spells ist actually higher.
Sorc/wiz: 22
Warlock: 15 + 10(Patron spells) + 4(MA) =29.
And the lvl 15 invocations kind of make up for the missing 6th and 7th lvl slot.
Personally I think the best solution to the resting issue for Warlocks is to give them back Pack Slots but now they only refill on long rest and warlocks get an ability that lets them refill their spell slots as an action x/times per long rest. (I waffle on the exact Number for X either being 2, 3, or Proficiency)
My suggestion was to take a page from the Magus in Pathfinder and give Warlocks two slots at the maximum level, and two at the level lower than that, so, for example, at level 9 they would have two level 5 slots and two level 4 slots. At level 5 they would have two level 3 slots and two level 2 slots. Unlike the current Warlock that's all the spell slots they ever get, and they recharge on a long rest, not a short rest.
They would also get an ability called (for wont of anything else) Eldritch Recovery at level 5, which allows them, once per long rest, to recharge all their expended spell slots with a 1 minute ritual. This increases to 2 uses at level 11, and 3 uses at level 17.
They have more spellcasting ability, and are no longer short rest dependent. At level 17, across the adventuring day, they could cast up to 6 level 5 spells, and 6 level 4 spells. That is three times as many level 5, and twice as many level 4 spells as a full caster, although, as usual, they don't have flexibility with lower level slots. They would still have Mystic Arcanum for levels 6, 7, 8, and 9 spells. They would still, unlike the playtest Warlock, rely on invocations for utility spells.
My biggest problem with the last proposed plan is that it forces the warlock to use invocations to cover basic functionality. Currently a warlock can drop a pair or more of top level spells, often more than once a day. Under the proposal they have to burn invocations to partially recreate that, using the invocations at 5 and 7 to simulate the effect. After that they’ll have to repeatedly burn invocations to get what used to be basic class functionality: a limited repertoire of higher level spells.
The practical effect is that the class would become boring because it’s most interesting aspect, the customization of invocations, would be gone.
my fix would be two things:
First, either go back to Mystic Arcana starting at 5th level so that a warlock always has a top level (3rd at 5th, 4th at 7th, etc) spell to use and a bit of variety. Or increase the number of invocations so they can buy these slots without losing variety.
Second, have patron spells become available at those same levels (2nd level spell at 3rd level, 3rd level spell at 5th level, etc).
In that way a 5th level warlock can pick a 3rd level spell to cast once a day, cast a 3rd level patron spell, have some low level spells for utility and not lose invocations which are generally more color than anything else.
I agree with the first of the OP's sentences, but that's about it. I'd like to see the bonuses for picking blade put off to level 3 (ie using caster stat for your melee attacks) but beyond that, I think I like the new warlock just fine. I'll miss my pact magic, but I think the new one is an improvement.
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Meanwhile I am feeling quashed with the nerf-bat for the Celestial Tome-lock I had played. If I converted the character over, I'm losing a cantrip known (I had taken most of the versatile ones I could grab) - more of a lost ribbon feature, but the new tome also grants 2 ritual spells BUT NOT RITUAL CASTING, so that is a larger hit, since the old invocation granted ritual casting from all classes provided you could find a place to learn it. Did I mention the game was in Strixhaven? And lastly, the new Tomelock forces the casting stat to Wisdom or Intelligence, when before I had been playing the party face. And getting a short rest wasn't a huge problem under the DM who ran that campaign, so the change from Pact Magic to 1/2 casting would certainly be felt. Changing to the Playtest version wouldn't just nerf my character, but sink it completely.