I'm fine with Tome and Blade. If they added back in some of the ritual collection aspect to Tome I wouldn't complain, but being able to access any 1st-level ritual after a short rest is pretty nice on its own, as is the free AB. Blade is largely going to be used for multiclasses but I'm fine with it even on a straight-classed warlock.
Familiar however needs the most work.
The first problem is that, strictly as written, they can only Dodge and Attack during combat. This clearly isn't intended since they have another action in their statblock, plus the other things familiars are usually used for like the Help action, Hide action or the new Study and Search actions. This is likely an oversight and thus easily fixed, but I wanted to make sure this feedback shows up in as many surveys as possible. Ideally you would only need your reaction to make them attack, and they can do whatever else you want on their own like any other familiar; this lets them do something useful (e.g. the Help action) even on a turn where you were forced to use your reaction for something else, like the Shield spell.
The bigger problem is their combat ability. Outside of combat they're great - they can operate independently of you, function as a remote sensor, and perform a wide variety of tasks because they're functionally proficient with every skill in the game and their form is malleable to your needs (e.g. you can give them hands or prehensile claws or grasping tentacles etc.) Fantastic! But in combat, the scaling really impacts their usefuleness - it starts out decent, but their melee nature + the slow scaling of their armor class and HP makes using them in a fight dicey at best. This decline continues until 9th level when they gain a powerful control component, but even then, using it is dangerous because they're so squishy (a whopping 14 HP and 15 AC at 9th level!!) and it takes an hour to get them back when they're inevitably pasted. A lot of DMs will leave your familiar alone if it's not involved in combat, but almost all of them will have no problem targeting it if it's running around trying to poison or frighten their monsters. And having it hang back makes you a boonless Warlock in combat. It's not fun.
I think the familiar needs to interact with your casting in some way - either letting it be able to deliver or share your spells, or what might be even more fun, letting it have access to any of your invocations that lack a prerequisite.
Blade has the problem of non-synergy with other martial stuff (it's not clear you can even take weapon mastery, since you aren't proficient wit, say, flails, you're proficient with this specific flail, and even if you can... the stat bump is strength or dexterity) and poor weapon choices (you can't use two weapons because you can't have two pact weapons, you can't use sword and shield because you aren't proficient in shield, you can't use great weapons because they're all heavy).
Chain has a familiar that it's implied you want to use in combat... but you don't because by tier 2 it dies if anything looks at it funny.
I don't mind normal Bladelocks missing out on 2H weapons and weapon masteries, that should be a Hexblade or multiclass thing.
I wouldn't be opposed to shield proficiency (since Warlock magic is easier to pick up, you have more time for training than a wizard/bard/sorcerer) - but as a reminder, you can get it via Lessons of the First Ones too.
Chain's familiar needs either a ranged attack or the ability to cast through it.
Remember that the double-bladed scimitar is a two-handed martial weapon that is NOT heavy, making it the best option for bladepact Warlocks. Being Eberron material means you do need your DM"s indulgence, but I've never had one say no.
But yes, the Warlock doesn't benefit from the stat increases added to the PAM/GWM/Sen abilities, and without heavy weapons there's no point in taking them.
Technically yes, but 1 as pointed out by pantagruel666 they are using a spell on a cantrip and 2 its just a action to resummon so action for an action. I guess there could be something like some weak spellcasters without a solid spell like fireball but 3rd level spells as fodder/backup where them stealing your action might be a solid choice. That is niche enough I don't consider it a concern.
Remember that the double-bladed scimitar is a two-handed martial weapon that is NOT heavy, making it the best option for bladepact Warlocks. Being Eberron material means you do need your DM"s indulgence, but I've never had one say no.
But yes, the Warlock doesn't benefit from the stat increases added to the PAM/GWM/Sen abilities, and without heavy weapons there's no point in taking them.
They benefit from any martial feat that boosts Dex. It might not be their primary stat but it's still good for a caster. Sentinel, Charger, Mage Slayer... in fact, as written if you want to go sword and board you'll need War Caster since the Pact Weapon doesn't count as a spellcasting focus for some Ao-forsaken reason. (Guess I have something else to stick in the feedback survey.)
Pact Weapon should grant a combat style at level 2, and weapon mastery at level 3 or 4. That would make it worth using the extra attack compared to the Tome using a melee attack cantrip (like green-flames blade that scales in damage). This also would equal the most combatant Warlock to the other half-casters like the Ranger or Paladin.
Pact Weapon should grant a combat style at level 2, and weapon mastery at level 3 or 4. That would make it worth using the extra attack compared to the Tome using a melee attack cantrip (like green-flames blade that scales in damage). This also would equal the most combatant Warlock to the other half-casters like the Ranger or Paladin.
Pact of the blade should grant you access to an invocation which opens up a combat style at level 2, just like pact of the tome should still have something like book of ancient secrets (to get more ritual spells than just 1st level) and pact of the chain needs something to make the familiar actually combat worthy, my suggestion would be an invocation that lets your familiar shift your hex to it's target when it makes an attack, hit or miss and even if hex is already on another target; that would actually add a reason that people would actually want to use chain.
Pact Weapon should grant a combat style at level 2, and weapon mastery at level 3 or 4. That would make it worth using the extra attack compared to the Tome using a melee attack cantrip (like green-flames blade that scales in damage). This also would equal the most combatant Warlock to the other half-casters like the Ranger or Paladin.
Pact of the blade should grant you access to an invocation which opens up a combat style at level 2, just like pact of the tome should still have something like book of ancient secrets (to get more ritual spells than just 1st level) and pact of the chain needs something to make the familiar actually combat worthy, my suggestion would be an invocation that lets your familiar shift your hex to it's target when it makes an attack, hit or miss and even if hex is already on another target; that would actually add a reason that people would actually want to use chain.
One of the goals, presumably, in shifting to a cantrip model was to do away with an "invocation tax" that all but forces everyone in a specific pact to take a specific invocation
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Pact Weapon should grant a combat style at level 2, and weapon mastery at level 3 or 4. That would make it worth using the extra attack compared to the Tome using a melee attack cantrip (like green-flames blade that scales in damage). This also would equal the most combatant Warlock to the other half-casters like the Ranger or Paladin.
Pact of the blade should grant you access to an invocation which opens up a combat style at level 2, just like pact of the tome should still have something like book of ancient secrets (to get more ritual spells than just 1st level) and pact of the chain needs something to make the familiar actually combat worthy, my suggestion would be an invocation that lets your familiar shift your hex to it's target when it makes an attack, hit or miss and even if hex is already on another target; that would actually add a reason that people would actually want to use chain.
One of the goals, presumably, in shifting to a cantrip model was to do away with an "invocation tax" that all but forces everyone in a specific pact to take a specific invocation
I don't think any of those three force people taking those pacts to necessarily take them, you could still do well with a pact weapon without a combat style and there is no way to include it in the cantrip where re-casting the cantrip just allows you to casually switch the combat style you've selected each time; which would basically give a cantrip access to every single fighting style in the game.
Ancient Secrets isn't required, it gives more rituals but rituals aren't a necessity, they are helpful tho. Perhaps the change I suggested for Pact of the Chain could be rolled in to the cantrip but I feel that doing that shifts Pact of the Chain from too weak to too strong, as you can effectively hex at will and benefit from the extra familiar attack at no cost at all.
Getting enemy spellcasters to dispel or counterspell your cantrip is very much a feature, not a bug.
Don't agree. This can effectively remove the warlock from combat for two entire rounds.
Round 1: Warlock casts pact weapon. Enemy caster counterspells. Warlock's contribution to the fight: nothing, and the enemy caster hasn't used an action to nullify the warlock.
Round 2: Warlock casts pact weapon again. It requires an action. Warlock again contributes nothing to the fight.
So counterspell can easily remove one player character from the fight until the third round of combat. If the party only has four characters - or fewer! - this isn't insignificant.
Pact Weapon should grant a combat style at level 2, and weapon mastery at level 3 or 4. That would make it worth using the extra attack compared to the Tome using a melee attack cantrip (like green-flames blade that scales in damage). This also would equal the most combatant Warlock to the other half-casters like the Ranger or Paladin.
Pact of the blade should grant you access to an invocation which opens up a combat style at level 2, just like pact of the tome should still have something like book of ancient secrets (to get more ritual spells than just 1st level) and pact of the chain needs something to make the familiar actually combat worthy, my suggestion would be an invocation that lets your familiar shift your hex to it's target when it makes an attack, hit or miss and even if hex is already on another target; that would actually add a reason that people would actually want to use chain.
One of the goals, presumably, in shifting to a cantrip model was to do away with an "invocation tax" that all but forces everyone in a specific pact to take a specific invocation
I don't think any of those three force people taking those pacts to necessarily take them, you could still do well with a pact weapon without a combat style and there is no way to include it in the cantrip where re-casting the cantrip just allows you to casually switch the combat style you've selected each time; which would basically give a cantrip access to every single fighting style in the game.
Ancient Secrets isn't required, it gives more rituals but rituals aren't a necessity, they are helpful tho. Perhaps the change I suggested for Pact of the Chain could be rolled in to the cantrip but I feel that doing that shifts Pact of the Chain from too weak to too strong, as you can effectively hex at will and benefit from the extra familiar attack at no cost at all.
That's the thing. Whichever pact boon you take, you're going to specialize in that thing. Bladelocks are always going to want ways to boost their melee; tomelocks are always going to want more utility spells; chainlocks are always going to want more and better ways to use their familiar
Can you be OK with your pact weapon if you don't have a fighting style? Sure. But why would anyone ever settle for just OK?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Don't agree. This can effectively remove the warlock from combat for two entire rounds.
Round 1: Warlock casts pact weapon. Enemy caster counterspells. Warlock's contribution to the fight: nothing, and the enemy caster hasn't used an action to nullify the warlock.
Normally you would NOT lose 2 turns, only 1 since you would almost NEVER cast this cantrip at the beginning of combat (Yes, there may be exceptions due to the context, but it is not common.), you yourself will be losing 1 turn for not casting it out of combat.
I think an enemy caster might think it worth it to burn two counterspells to keep 25% of a hostile force out of commission for two rounds.
Well, I don't see any problem with it, if the enemy uses that twice, he will use that cantrip or any magical action, yes, he would lose 2 turns, but for 2 events in different turns. In any case, it is the opponent's strategy, and surely if he used this spell twice, it would be convenient for him to neutralize something with a higher level, so I win, even if it is affected.
I don't think any of those three force people taking those pacts to necessarily take them, you could still do well with a pact weapon without a combat style and there is no way to include it in the cantrip where re-casting the cantrip just allows you to casually switch the combat style you've selected each time; which would basically give a cantrip access to every single fighting style in the game.
Ancient Secrets isn't required, it gives more rituals but rituals aren't a necessity, they are helpful tho. Perhaps the change I suggested for Pact of the Chain could be rolled in to the cantrip but I feel that doing that shifts Pact of the Chain from too weak to too strong, as you can effectively hex at will and benefit from the extra familiar attack at no cost at all.
That's the thing. Whichever pact boon you take, you're going to specialize in that thing. Bladelocks are always going to want ways to boost their melee; tomelocks are always going to want more utility spells; chainlocks are always going to want more and better ways to use their familiar
Can you be OK with your pact weapon if you don't have a fighting style? Sure. But why would anyone ever settle for just OK?
Pact of the Blade is the only one people specialize in, if you go pact of the tome, you're getting what, 2 extra cantrips and access to two first level rituals... okay, so you get what, Detect Magic, Comprehend Languages, Tensor's Floating Disk, or what not and 2 cantrips, which if they aren't utility, will likely be cantrips that do less damage then Eldritch Blast... this isn't adding that much or changing how you play Warlock. With Pact of the Chain, you get a familiar of questionable value that barely scales to level at all and does less damage then using your bonus action on hex to re-apply it to a new target (which is usually going to happen more often than not, in combat), it's basically a scout.
The one Invocation for Pact of the Chain adds so little, it can be entirely ignored and the one invocation for Pact of the Tome is nice to keep one person up one more hit but really isn't doing much, considering you're not a healer, so it's not a deal breaker if you ignore it in favour of other invocations.
Meanwhile people are talking about Invocation tax and ignoring the obvious invocation tax added in this UA, You still have Agonizing Blast, the literal worst offender from 5E, still being exactly the same while Mystic Arcanum is now an Invocation tax that is likely to consume 2-4 invocations by level 17. As pact of the blade stands right now, at level 2, you get pact weapon which can do a maximum of 1d10+MOD+hex Damage, or you can get Eldritch Blast with Agonizing Blast, which can do a maximum of 1d10+MOD+Hex Damage, at range. At level 5 it's the same deal but both EB and PW do two attacks, it's not until level 9 that PW is actually able to out do EB for the "weapon" focused Pact of the Blade. Admittedly it is possible for Pact of the Blade to get more damage sooner, but it really depends on how well your DM gives out magic items, such as +1 weapons, but even so that's usually going to be tier 2 items, tier 1 there is basically no difference, except for level 1.
I'm fine with Tome and Blade. If they added back in some of the ritual collection aspect to Tome I wouldn't complain, but being able to access any 1st-level ritual after a short rest is pretty nice on its own, as is the free AB. Blade is largely going to be used for multiclasses but I'm fine with it even on a straight-classed warlock.
Familiar however needs the most work.
The first problem is that, strictly as written, they can only Dodge and Attack during combat. This clearly isn't intended since they have another action in their statblock, plus the other things familiars are usually used for like the Help action, Hide action or the new Study and Search actions. This is likely an oversight and thus easily fixed, but I wanted to make sure this feedback shows up in as many surveys as possible. Ideally you would only need your reaction to make them attack, and they can do whatever else you want on their own like any other familiar; this lets them do something useful (e.g. the Help action) even on a turn where you were forced to use your reaction for something else, like the Shield spell.
The bigger problem is their combat ability. Outside of combat they're great - they can operate independently of you, function as a remote sensor, and perform a wide variety of tasks because they're functionally proficient with every skill in the game and their form is malleable to your needs (e.g. you can give them hands or prehensile claws or grasping tentacles etc.) Fantastic! But in combat, the scaling really impacts their usefuleness - it starts out decent, but their melee nature + the slow scaling of their armor class and HP makes using them in a fight dicey at best. This decline continues until 9th level when they gain a powerful control component, but even then, using it is dangerous because they're so squishy (a whopping 14 HP and 15 AC at 9th level!!) and it takes an hour to get them back when they're inevitably pasted. A lot of DMs will leave your familiar alone if it's not involved in combat, but almost all of them will have no problem targeting it if it's running around trying to poison or frighten their monsters. And having it hang back makes you a boonless Warlock in combat. It's not fun.
I think the familiar needs to interact with your casting in some way - either letting it be able to deliver or share your spells, or what might be even more fun, letting it have access to any of your invocations that lack a prerequisite.
Blade has the problem of non-synergy with other martial stuff (it's not clear you can even take weapon mastery, since you aren't proficient wit, say, flails, you're proficient with this specific flail, and even if you can... the stat bump is strength or dexterity) and poor weapon choices (you can't use two weapons because you can't have two pact weapons, you can't use sword and shield because you aren't proficient in shield, you can't use great weapons because they're all heavy).
Chain has a familiar that it's implied you want to use in combat... but you don't because by tier 2 it dies if anything looks at it funny.
Tome is functional.
I don't mind normal Bladelocks missing out on 2H weapons and weapon masteries, that should be a Hexblade or multiclass thing.
I wouldn't be opposed to shield proficiency (since Warlock magic is easier to pick up, you have more time for training than a wizard/bard/sorcerer) - but as a reminder, you can get it via Lessons of the First Ones too.
Chain's familiar needs either a ranged attack or the ability to cast through it.
Remember that the double-bladed scimitar is a two-handed martial weapon that is NOT heavy, making it the best option for bladepact Warlocks. Being Eberron material means you do need your DM"s indulgence, but I've never had one say no.
But yes, the Warlock doesn't benefit from the stat increases added to the PAM/GWM/Sen abilities, and without heavy weapons there's no point in taking them.
Can Pact of the Blade be dispelled?
Another problem with Pact of the Blade is that it can be dispelled or counterspelled.
Given that it's a cantrip, I think eating up enemy dispels and counterspells with pact of the blade is probably paying for itself.
Technically yes, but 1 as pointed out by pantagruel666 they are using a spell on a cantrip and 2 its just a action to resummon so action for an action. I guess there could be something like some weak spellcasters without a solid spell like fireball but 3rd level spells as fodder/backup where them stealing your action might be a solid choice. That is niche enough I don't consider it a concern.
Getting enemy spellcasters to dispel or counterspell your cantrip is very much a feature, not a bug.
They benefit from any martial feat that boosts Dex. It might not be their primary stat but it's still good for a caster. Sentinel, Charger, Mage Slayer... in fact, as written if you want to go sword and board you'll need War Caster since the Pact Weapon doesn't count as a spellcasting focus for some Ao-forsaken reason. (Guess I have something else to stick in the feedback survey.)
Pact Weapon should grant a combat style at level 2, and weapon mastery at level 3 or 4. That would make it worth using the extra attack compared to the Tome using a melee attack cantrip (like green-flames blade that scales in damage). This also would equal the most combatant Warlock to the other half-casters like the Ranger or Paladin.
Pact of the blade should grant you access to an invocation which opens up a combat style at level 2, just like pact of the tome should still have something like book of ancient secrets (to get more ritual spells than just 1st level) and pact of the chain needs something to make the familiar actually combat worthy, my suggestion would be an invocation that lets your familiar shift your hex to it's target when it makes an attack, hit or miss and even if hex is already on another target; that would actually add a reason that people would actually want to use chain.
Making Pact of the Blade cantrip a bonus action would allow the fantasy of summoning a weapon and attacking with it in one turn.
One of the goals, presumably, in shifting to a cantrip model was to do away with an "invocation tax" that all but forces everyone in a specific pact to take a specific invocation
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I don't think any of those three force people taking those pacts to necessarily take them, you could still do well with a pact weapon without a combat style and there is no way to include it in the cantrip where re-casting the cantrip just allows you to casually switch the combat style you've selected each time; which would basically give a cantrip access to every single fighting style in the game.
Ancient Secrets isn't required, it gives more rituals but rituals aren't a necessity, they are helpful tho. Perhaps the change I suggested for Pact of the Chain could be rolled in to the cantrip but I feel that doing that shifts Pact of the Chain from too weak to too strong, as you can effectively hex at will and benefit from the extra familiar attack at no cost at all.
Don't agree. This can effectively remove the warlock from combat for two entire rounds.
Round 1: Warlock casts pact weapon. Enemy caster counterspells. Warlock's contribution to the fight: nothing, and the enemy caster hasn't used an action to nullify the warlock.
Round 2: Warlock casts pact weapon again. It requires an action. Warlock again contributes nothing to the fight.
So counterspell can easily remove one player character from the fight until the third round of combat. If the party only has four characters - or fewer! - this isn't insignificant.
That's the thing. Whichever pact boon you take, you're going to specialize in that thing. Bladelocks are always going to want ways to boost their melee; tomelocks are always going to want more utility spells; chainlocks are always going to want more and better ways to use their familiar
Can you be OK with your pact weapon if you don't have a fighting style? Sure. But why would anyone ever settle for just OK?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Normally you would NOT lose 2 turns, only 1 since you would almost NEVER cast this cantrip at the beginning of combat (Yes, there may be exceptions due to the context, but it is not common.), you yourself will be losing 1 turn for not casting it out of combat.
I think an enemy caster might think it worth it to burn two counterspells to keep 25% of a hostile force out of commission for two rounds.
Well, I don't see any problem with it, if the enemy uses that twice, he will use that cantrip or any magical action, yes, he would lose 2 turns, but for 2 events in different turns. In any case, it is the opponent's strategy, and surely if he used this spell twice, it would be convenient for him to neutralize something with a higher level, so I win, even if it is affected.
Pact of the Blade is the only one people specialize in, if you go pact of the tome, you're getting what, 2 extra cantrips and access to two first level rituals... okay, so you get what, Detect Magic, Comprehend Languages, Tensor's Floating Disk, or what not and 2 cantrips, which if they aren't utility, will likely be cantrips that do less damage then Eldritch Blast... this isn't adding that much or changing how you play Warlock. With Pact of the Chain, you get a familiar of questionable value that barely scales to level at all and does less damage then using your bonus action on hex to re-apply it to a new target (which is usually going to happen more often than not, in combat), it's basically a scout.
The one Invocation for Pact of the Chain adds so little, it can be entirely ignored and the one invocation for Pact of the Tome is nice to keep one person up one more hit but really isn't doing much, considering you're not a healer, so it's not a deal breaker if you ignore it in favour of other invocations.
Meanwhile people are talking about Invocation tax and ignoring the obvious invocation tax added in this UA, You still have Agonizing Blast, the literal worst offender from 5E, still being exactly the same while Mystic Arcanum is now an Invocation tax that is likely to consume 2-4 invocations by level 17. As pact of the blade stands right now, at level 2, you get pact weapon which can do a maximum of 1d10+MOD+hex Damage, or you can get Eldritch Blast with Agonizing Blast, which can do a maximum of 1d10+MOD+Hex Damage, at range. At level 5 it's the same deal but both EB and PW do two attacks, it's not until level 9 that PW is actually able to out do EB for the "weapon" focused Pact of the Blade. Admittedly it is possible for Pact of the Blade to get more damage sooner, but it really depends on how well your DM gives out magic items, such as +1 weapons, but even so that's usually going to be tier 2 items, tier 1 there is basically no difference, except for level 1.