I don't hate the changes, but on balance I dislike a lot more about it than I like.
Actually PsyrenXY has helped me realises that I actually do hate the UA Warlock, because defending the indefensible only highlights just how badly wrong they've got parts of it.
Changing to long rest slots makes sense, but I'd prefer unique scaling rather than it just becoming a boring half caster.
While I like boons all having built in scaling, I don't like them being cantrips (why even create Magic actions if you're not going to use them?)
While I like the idea of summoning it on demand, in practice the Book of Shadows is more annoying to use if you're picking spells each time. I'd rather just learn more as before but be able to dismiss and re-summon the book when I need to.
Pact of the Chain is… okay, but it may need to scale more because currently I don't see why you wouldn't just take one of the other two plus find familiar (especially since you can get find familiar in a book of shadows); it just doesn't justify itself as a third option anymore. I know it can attack, but it's not very durable so it's main use is going to be same as find familiar. I'd also like to see the patron specific familiars moved out to the patron sub-classes themselves (too messy to have it all in the feature).
They made hex into scaling once per turn damage which I think makes sense because it decouples it from eldritch blast (no longer need multiple attacks) but then they made eldritch blast mandatory. Why?
I hate eldritch blast being a mandatory cantrip, as I hate how it's basically mandatory on 5e Warlocks already. If I'm going to build a cantrip spammer I want that to be my choice, and I want to choose what cantrip(s) I build around. I'd rather see eldritch blast be a weaker Arcane list cantrip, and and things like Agonizing Blast be redesigned to work with either any cantrip, or a cantrip of my choice, so I can be a cold blaster if I want.
I don't like the loss of certain invocations; there were a load I wanted to use in 5e, that were too weak, but instead of fixing them they've just axed them. For example Relentless Hex which is a great idea in theory but due to the way it worked just never lived up to the promise (because casting/transferring hex is also a bonus action), let it use the same bonus action and it'd actually be a great one to have on a blade lock.
While I like hex being a core class feature, the Hex Master capstone is both bad and boring, and we've actually got fewer ways to capitalise on hex; they've taken away Maddening Hex and Relentless Hex invocations, and given us nothing in their place. If I'm going to be cursing people then let me really curse them. Gimme an invocation that allows switching hex targets without killing them and we could make Relentless Hex awesome. Instead hex is still just a bit extra damage and an occasionally useful check disadvantage.
I really like that we can now build Warlocks with a choice of ability scores for casting.
So yeah, it's a pretty mixed bag; it feels like they don't know what to do with Warlock and were just throwing out ideas, some aren't bad to be fair but as a class it's currently a mess.
I completely agree warlocks should have some form of unique scaling.
The boons being cantrips simplifies the wording and most people findings faults in them for being cantrips are honestly nit picking, but y’all are free to your opinion.
I prefer the Pact of Tome as it is in the UA, but that’s just personal preference and you are clearly entitled to yours.
Pact of the chain is the best scouting familiar presented in these UA documents. It is pretty useless in combat though.
I don’t like the hex changes, but it does make sense, because it makes hex better for all cantrips and single hit spells.
Eldritch Blast isn’t mandatory. You don’t have to use it. Like you said hex works just as well for firebolt as it does for eldritch blast now. If you know anything about the warlock Eldritch blast was always a part of the class. The only reason EB exist is for Warlock. Honestly this UA version makes eldritch blast far less mandatory. Pact of the Tome can add +Cha to any cantrip. EB is the best damage cantrip in the game so it’s a awkward choice to not use it. Still it’s not mandatory.
I was upset that certain invocations were not present, but realized those invocations all came from later books. They may be saving them for later books again. This would include relentless hex, eldritch smite and many more of the really good ones. I personally think they should be included in the new PHB, but it’s hard to fight for them when they weren’t there in the 2014 PHB.
Hex Master is absolute hot garbage. I completely agree with you about this. Why they thought this would be a good idea right after they gave sorcerers wish that they can’t lose and a special way to cast it I don’t know.
Again I agree that being able to use different casting stats really opens the warlock up to being a unique class.
Eldritch Blast has always been a signature spell for Warlocks, but there has always been the option not to choose it. Some players may have different concepts in mind when creating their Warlock. For example, Toll the Dead is a more thematic spell if the Warlock wants an Undead patron.
You still do have the option to not use it. In fact - as I mentioned - between having every Arcane cantrip now + Tome buffing all of them, you have more options than ever. Some like Sword Burst might even outdamage EB in the right situation.
But those situations doesn't mean Crawford's statement about EB being overall the strongest damage cantrip in the game isn't true.
It is still a point of identity that when you make something a core ability rather than an option to be choosing, you are inhibiting on the liberty of the player to choose how they play it.
You could chose to have a Druid who doesn’t use shapeshifting, but what would be the point? It is a defining part of that identity. By making Eldritch Blast a core feature rather than a spell, it will be seen that way too.
Eldritch Blast has always been a signature spell for Warlocks, but there has always been the option not to choose it. Some players may have different concepts in mind when creating their Warlock. For example, Toll the Dead is a more thematic spell if the Warlock wants an Undead patron.
You still do have the option to not use it. In fact - as I mentioned - between having every Arcane cantrip now + Tome buffing all of them, you have more options than ever. Some like Sword Burst might even outdamage EB in the right situation.
But those situations doesn't mean Crawford's statement about EB being overall the strongest damage cantrip in the game isn't true.
It is still a point of identity that when you make something a core ability rather than an option to be choosing, you are inhibiting on the liberty of the player to choose how they play it.
You could chose to have a Druid who doesn’t use shapeshifting, but what would be the point? It is a core part of that identity. By making Eldritch Blast a core feature rather than a spell, it will be seen that way too.
This is completely unavoidable. ALL features influence the identity of a class. You are literally arguing against all class features with that logic.
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Eldritch Blast has always been a signature spell for Warlocks, but there has always been the option not to choose it. Some players may have different concepts in mind when creating their Warlock. For example, Toll the Dead is a more thematic spell if the Warlock wants an Undead patron.
You still do have the option to not use it. In fact - as I mentioned - between having every Arcane cantrip now + Tome buffing all of them, you have more options than ever. Some like Sword Burst might even outdamage EB in the right situation.
But those situations doesn't mean Crawford's statement about EB being overall the strongest damage cantrip in the game isn't true.
It is still a point of identity that when you make something a core ability rather than an option to be choosing, you are inhibiting on the liberty of the player to choose how they play it.
You could chose to have a Druid who doesn’t use shapeshifting, but what would be the point? It is a core part of that identity. By making Eldritch Blast a core feature rather than a spell, it will be seen that way too. .
There are lots of players who choose to play druids and not shape shift. EB has always been a core feature of Warlocks. It was a mistake for it not to be given as a feature when they released the 2014 PHB. EB was a warlock feature in every edition warlock existed until 5e. Then they made it a warlock spell list only Cantrip. But it’s still evident that it is meant to be a core feature of warlock. Look at warlock invocations in 5e. In the PHB there were 2 invocation dedicated to the cantrip. Then more released in later books. They don’t have any invocations dedicated to other cantrips on the warlock spell list. They are correcting course and making it part of the warlock features. Also correcting the 2 level dip problem EB+AB caused. Nothing for the warlock is loss because of this change. You can continue to not use EB if you want. Self nerfing is a thing many players enjoy doing.
2. The boons being cantrips simplifies the wording and most people findings faults in them for being cantrips are honestly nit picking, but y’all are free to your opinion.
It doesn't really simplify anything though; all they need to be is Magic actions you can take, there's no specific benefit to them being cantrips, which are more complex and create more surface area for potential problems and exploits. And structurally it's worse as well; even in the playtest PDF (which is a lot shorter than a PHB will be) it's a pain in the arse to refer to the pact boon options, even if they group them with the Warlock class it will still be more awkward, and only beg the question more of why they need to be cantrips.
3. I prefer the Pact of Tome as it is in the UA, but that’s just personal preference and you are clearly entitled to yours.
Why do you prefer it though? It may give a bit more more in the short term (immediate Book of Ancient Secrets), but it gives you a lot less in the long term because that early access is nerfed.
Adding the modifier to other cantrips is… fine as a 5th-level upgrade but it doesn't compete with Agonizing Blast except on specific (mostly short ranged) cantrips you're not likely to want to build around. That's why I'd much rather they just re-scaled and opened up Agonizing Blast for that, because Pact of the Tome for me has always been about adding versatility, not just for building a blaster (that's what the invocations are for).
One of the things I'm mixed about with the updated pacts is that while they feel more significant, they also feel less flexible; in 5e it was up to you if your pact boon is just an extra sweetener or your main thing. You can grab Pact of the Blade purely to have an extra option when your back's against the wall, but still dedicate your invocations to blasting if you prefer, you can grab a familiar without doubling down on it etc. Honestly I'd rather they dropped the 5th-level scaling on the boons, and gave me an extra invocation choice at 5th-level so I can choose what upgrade(s) I want.
4. Eldritch Blast isn’t mandatory. You don’t have to use it.
If I choose not to use it I'm effectively losing a cantrip, because unlike a build that does use it I need to spend another cantrip choice (and a specific pact boon) to use something else, this is what makes it feel like being railroaded into one specific choice (that's no longer a choice).
If you know anything about the warlock Eldritch blast was always a part of the class.
I don't care about past versions of the class, I care about the future version of the class; I never wanted to play Warlock before 5th-edition, and in its current state I won't want to play the OneD&D one.
Thanks to Mordenkainen's Monsters of the Multiverse practically every mage in the game now has a basic force damage cantrip except for the players, so it no longer makes any sense for eldritch blast to be Warlock only (though it will need to be weaker if it's made generally available, to balance against other cantrips). I'm fine with Warlocks still being the best cantrip blasters if you build them for that, but if I'm to go that route I want to choose which cantrip is my main one and be able to build up a choice of cantrips to a similar level of damage.
I want to be the one choosing what I build around, not Wizards of the Coast or die-hard Warlock traditionalists. 😝
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4. Eldritch Blast isn’t mandatory. You don’t have to use it.
If I choose not to use it I'm effectively losing a cantrip, because unlike a build that does use it I need to spend another cantrip choice (and a specific pact boon) to use something else, this is what makes it feel like being railroaded into one specific choice (that's no longer a choice).
Old warlock had to use one of their two cantrip choices to pick of EB, if you didn't want EB you have 2 free cantrip picks. One D&D warlock still gets 2 free cantrip picks, but also gets EB for free. You have just as much flexibility in cantrip choice as you did before you just also get EB on your sheet which you are free to ignore. However in 5e warlock the choice to pick EB or not was mostly a false choice, if you main-Warlock then you are knee capping yourself if you don't take EB + AB in 5e, I played with a player that tried to do it and they are just utterly weak and useless. One D&D just makes this abundantly clear (though AB should be rolled into EB not as a separate invocation). Playing a Warlock and not using EB is like playing a paladin and never using a weapon - sure you can do that but you're character is crippled if you choose to do so. For 5e Warlock if you don't want to spam EB then you play a Hexblade (probably MC) and spam weapon attacks instead.
Though I hate to throw the half caster Warlock a bone, the addition of Mystic Arcanum means that they do have unique scaling. It's sort of half caster and sort of full caster.
The problem is that Mystic Arcanum compete with invocations, and almost none of the invocations are good enough to justify taking them over Mystic Arcanum.
So instead just automatically add Mystic Arcanum at odd levels from 3 to 17, for spells level 2 to 9. Moreover make the spell count as a "known" spells so once you get a spell slot of the appropriate level you can choose to cast it with said spell slot and even upcast it once you get higher level slots.
2. The boons being cantrips simplifies the wording and most people findings faults in them for being cantrips are honestly nit picking, but y’all are free to your opinion.
It doesn't really simplify anything though; all they need to be is Magic actions you can take, there's no specific benefit to them being cantrips, which are more complex and create more surface area for potential problems and exploits. And structurally it's worse as well; even in the playtest PDF (which is a lot shorter than a PHB will be) it's a pain in the arse to refer to the pact boon options, even if they group them with the Warlock class it will still be more awkward, and only beg the question more of why they need to be cantrips.
3. I prefer the Pact of Tome as it is in the UA, but that’s just personal preference and you are clearly entitled to yours.
Why do you prefer it though? It may give a bit more more in the short term (immediate Book of Ancient Secrets), but it gives you a lot less in the long term because that early access is nerfed.
Adding the modifier to other cantrips is… fine as a 5th-level upgrade but it doesn't compete with Agonizing Blast except on specific (mostly short ranged) cantrips you're not likely to want to build around. That's why I'd much rather they just re-scaled and opened up Agonizing Blast for that, because Pact of the Tome for me has always been about adding versatility, not just for building a blaster (that's what the invocations are for).
One of the things I'm mixed about with the updated pacts is that while they feel more significant, they also feel less flexible; in 5e it was up to you if your pact boon is just an extra sweetener or your main thing. You can grab Pact of the Blade purely to have an extra option when your back's against the wall, but still dedicate your invocations to blasting if you prefer, you can grab a familiar without doubling down on it etc. Honestly I'd rather they dropped the 5th-level scaling on the boons, and gave me an extra invocation choice at 5th-level so I can choose what upgrade(s) I want.
4. Eldritch Blast isn’t mandatory. You don’t have to use it.
If I choose not to use it I'm effectively losing a cantrip, because unlike a build that does use it I need to spend another cantrip choice (and a specific pact boon) to use something else, this is what makes it feel like being railroaded into one specific choice (that's no longer a choice).
If you know anything about the warlock Eldritch blast was always a part of the class.
I don't care about past versions of the class, I care about the future version of the class; I never wanted to play Warlock before 5th-edition, and in its current state I won't want to play the OneD&D one.
Thanks to Mordenkainen's Monsters of the Multiverse practically every mage in the game now has a basic force damage cantrip except for the players, so it no longer makes any sense for eldritch blast to be Warlock only (though it will need to be weaker if it's made generally available, to balance against other cantrips). I'm fine with Warlocks still being the best cantrip blasters if you build them for that, but if I'm to go that route I want to choose which cantrip is my main one and be able to build up a choice of cantrips to a similar level of damage.
I want to be the one choosing what I build around, not Wizards of the Coast or die-hard Warlock traditionalists. 😝
2. If they make them a features that use a magic action, but do exactly what they do now they literally have to increase the books word count to explain each feature works as a magic. There is already a section that explains how cantrips work. If it’s a magic action that works just like a cantrip why not make it a cantrip?
3. Being able to switch the spells offers versitility. The book of shadows is better 5th level feature is better than Agonizing Blast because it works for all cantrips. They won’t make agonizing blast work on all cantrips unless the increased it to a 5th level invocation. That would serve no purpose.
4. Calling it a waste of a cantrip is the same as calling all the bonus spells subclasses give you a waste of a spell because you don’t want to use it. It’s fine if you don’t want to use it, but it’s there by design nothing was wasted. Eldritch Blast would never be on every casters spell list. Giving every character access to everything doesn’t make the game more fun. It actually just has everyone playing the same optimized characters or just being weaker than others. Also because of time pact you literally have more options to build around whatever cantrip you want. Eldritch Blast is still more powerful of a choice, but you get to add Cha to any cantrip of your choice. That wasn’t an option in 5e.
Though I hate to throw the half caster Warlock a bone, the addition of Mystic Arcanum means that they do have unique scaling. It's sort of half caster and sort of full caster.
The problem is that Mystic Arcanum compete with invocations, and almost none of the invocations are good enough to justify taking them over Mystic Arcanum.
So instead just automatically add Mystic Arcanum at odd levels from 3 to 17, for spells level 2 to 9. Moreover make the spell count as a "known" spells so once you get a spell slot of the appropriate level you can choose to cast it with said spell slot and even upcast it once you get higher level slots.
If they altered Mystic Arcanum to give you a spell slot and a spell known of the chosen level instead casting without a spell slot it would be fine as an invocation. The flaw is it would still be a must pick invocation. The added value to the must pick might make it okay.
The Sorcerer is not getting 1 cantrip but 1 cantrip and 4 spells fixed. But they are spells only for convenience for the new mechanics, as they are given for free. If instead they were simply class features (putting its corresponding catchy description), would we be discussing about it? Probably we would merely accept it as class feature like any other as an extra.
Old warlock had to use one of their two cantrip choices to pick of EB, if you didn't want EB you have 2 free cantrip picks. One D&D warlock still gets 2 free cantrip picks, but also gets EB for free. You have just as much flexibility in cantrip choice as you did before you just also get EB on your sheet which you are free to ignore.
It's still creating a balance issue though, because the eldritch blaster build has three cantrips and a build ignoring eldritch blast effectively only has two, so that's a 50% difference. This isn't so much of a problem with hex which works with pretty much any build.
Playing a Warlock and not using EB is like playing a paladin and never using a weapon - sure you can do that but you're character is crippled if you choose to do so. For 5e Warlock if you don't want to spam EB then you play a Hexblade (probably MC) and spam weapon attacks instead.
Hexblade isn't really required for a bladelock unless you need the armour mastery, but I've never had any particular problem just using armor of shadows + armor of agathys, aside from losing an invocation pick to do it (but if you're not taking Agonizing Blast that's not usually a problem).
Despite its theming Hexblade isn't otherwise really bound to bladelock at all, and Hexblade's Curse doesn't even require a weapon, it's only the 30 foot range that stops it from being super easy for a blaster to make use of, but in any fight that starts close you can just activate it and move away.
I would say the Undying is the easiest option for bladelock now, I also particularly like Fathomless.
just automatically add Mystic Arcanum at odd levels from 3 to 17, for spells level 2 to 9. Moreover make the spell count as a "known" spells so once you get a spell slot of the appropriate level you can choose to cast it with said spell slot and even upcast it once you get higher level slots.
While I could probably settle for built in arcanums returning as a compromise between half-casting and full custom scaling, I'd still mourn the loss of the pact scaling as I really liked that the slots were always of the highest levels, as it meant a Warlock who could get some short rests in can throw out more mid-level spells than any other caster. While keeping some of that flavour on long rest is tricky, I think it's worth keeping if at all possible.
But there still needs to be a solid mix of invocations regardless, because as you say most just aren't worth taking (especially with Mystic Arcanum as an option), which is why such a limited selection is so frustrating, as the ones that are there aren't exactly a balanced group.
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2. If they make them a features that use a magic action, but do exactly what they do now they literally have to increase the books word count to explain each feature works as a magic. There is already a section that explains how cantrips work. If it’s a magic action that works just like a cantrip why not make it a cantrip?
"Tracing arcane sigils in the air, you conjure a Simple or Martial melee weapon of your choice in your outstretched hand, or you create a bond with a magic weapon you touch."
becomes
"As a Magic action on your turn you trace arcane sigils in the air and conjure a Simple or Martial melee weapon of your choice in your outstretched hand, or you create a bond with a magic weapon you touch."
Done.
3. Being able to switch the spells offers versitility. The book of shadows is better 5th level feature is better than Agonizing Blast because it works for all cantrips. They won’t make agonizing blast work on all cantrips unless the increased it to a 5th level invocation. That would serve no purpose.
It's not as much versatility as having immediate access to any ritual you might need, when you need it, rather than needing a full extra hour (on top of the ritual itself). And the damage boost is less valuable on other cantrips; fire bolt getting +CHA simply isn't as good as eldritch blast getting +2xCHA (once per beam).
Changing Agonizing Blast is simple; it just needs to scale differently so it's equivalent regardless of the cantrip you slap it on top of, basically same as they did for hex.
4. Calling it a waste of a cantrip is the same as calling all the bonus spells subclasses give you a waste of a spell because you don’t want to use it.
I can choose which sub-class I go.
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2. If they make them a features that use a magic action, but do exactly what they do now they literally have to increase the books word count to explain each feature works as a magic. There is already a section that explains how cantrips work. If it’s a magic action that works just like a cantrip why not make it a cantrip?
"Tracing arcane sigils in the air, you conjure a Simple or Martial melee weapon of your choice in your outstretched hand, or you create a bond with a magic weapon you touch."
becomes
"As a Magic action on your turn you trace arcane sigils in the air and conjure a Simple or Martial melee weapon of your choice in your outstretched hand, or you create a bond with a magic weapon you touch. This counts as a level 0 conjuration effect and can be performed during any rest. You must have free movement of at least one hand, which can be same the hand holding or to which you summon the weapon. The weapon or bond persists for 24 hours, and can be ended early with dispel magic as though it were a spell. Effects you have that can affect cantrips, such as Quicken Spell, can be appied to this ability. You cannot bond to a weapon attended by anyone but yourself."
Though I hate to throw the half caster Warlock a bone, the addition of Mystic Arcanum means that they do have unique scaling. It's sort of half caster and sort of full caster.
The problem is that Mystic Arcanum compete with invocations, and almost none of the invocations are good enough to justify taking them over Mystic Arcanum.
So instead just automatically add Mystic Arcanum at odd levels from 3 to 17, for spells level 2 to 9. Moreover make the spell count as a "known" spells so once you get a spell slot of the appropriate level you can choose to cast it with said spell slot and even upcast it once you get higher level slots.
If they altered Mystic Arcanum to give you a spell slot and a spell known of the chosen level instead casting without a spell slot it would be fine as an invocation. The flaw is it would still be a must pick invocation. The added value to the must pick might make it okay.
I would be fine with slotless MA baseline and slot conversion as an invocation.
2. If they make them a features that use a magic action, but do exactly what they do now they literally have to increase the books word count to explain each feature works as a magic. There is already a section that explains how cantrips work. If it’s a magic action that works just like a cantrip why not make it a cantrip?
"Tracing arcane sigils in the air, you conjure a Simple or Martial melee weapon of your choice in your outstretched hand, or you create a bond with a magic weapon you touch."
becomes
"As a Magic action on your turn you trace arcane sigils in the air and conjure a Simple or Martial melee weapon of your choice in your outstretched hand, or you create a bond with a magic weapon you touch."
Done.
3. Being able to switch the spells offers versitility. The book of shadows is better 5th level feature is better than Agonizing Blast because it works for all cantrips. They won’t make agonizing blast work on all cantrips unless the increased it to a 5th level invocation. That would serve no purpose.
It's not as much versatility as having immediate access to any ritual you might need, when you need it, rather than needing a full extra hour (on top of the ritual itself). And the damage boost is less valuable on other cantrips; fire bolt getting +CHA simply isn't as good as eldritch blast getting +2xCHA (once per beam).
Changing Agonizing Blast is simple; it just needs to scale differently so it's equivalent regardless of the cantrip you slap it on top of, basically same as they did for hex.
4. Calling it a waste of a cantrip is the same as calling all the bonus spells subclasses give you a waste of a spell because you don’t want to use it.
I can choose which sub-class I go.
2. So you cut the narrative description so you wouldn’t increase the word count, but literally didn’t answer the more important question. Why? If the cantrip does the same thing as the feature why can’t it be a cantrip?
3. This new version is far superior in that aspect. The original tome pact gives you zero rituals. Book of ancient secrets is not a 2014 PHB invocation. While I believe it should be added to the 2024 PHB we might get it in a later book. Also the +Cha to all cantrips offered by the book is better than agonizing blast because the book also works on eldritch blast which means you just freed up a invocation.
4. You also can choose what class you pick. What’s your point? Someone else already pointed out they didn’t limit your cantrip choices (2) they literally gave you a free cantrip on the side. You still argued with them. It’s like I’m making patty melts so I’m putting cheese on them. You say I don’t want the cheese. So I pull it off yours and leave it to the side and you get mad I didn’t give you something to replace the cheese. The cheese is here if you want it, but I’m not inclined to give you something else instead of the cheese. The cheese is actually a part of the design.
Being able to switch the spells offers versitility. The book of shadows is better 5th level feature is better than Agonizing Blast because it works for all cantrips. They won’t make agonizing blast work on all cantrips unless the increased it to a 5th level invocation. That would serve no purpose.
Sorry, I'm calling NONSENSE on this. Having more options is not inherently better, Eldritch Blast is designed to be a spell-equivalent of a weapon. You can't just take other spells not designed for that purpose and make them equivalent in damage to Eldritch Blast. Eldritch Blast will ALWAYS be the best damage cantrip using any other cantrip will be worse damage-wise so you had better be making good use of the rider that comes with it. It would be FAR simpler to just add extra invocations that modify Eldritch Blast, since they at least allow other invocations to stack on top as well (AB, Repelling, etc..).
e.g.
Frost Blast - When you cast Eldritch Blast you can choose to have it deal cold damage instead of force damage, if you do so the first creature you hit with this Eldritch Blast has its movement speed reduced by 10 ft until the start of your next turn.
Fire Blast - When you cast Eldritch Blast you can choose to have it deal fire damage instead of force damage, if you do so it ignites flammable object... ...
This is just utter foolishness because EB will ALWAYS be better because it has the built in Extra Attack feature. It's like building an EK and saying all of its cantrips should be equivalent in power to using a longbow. The ONLY alternative is the remove Eldritch Blast entirely and turning Hex into a warlock feature that is mathematically equivalent to Sneak Attack, and thus convert the Warlock into the magic equivalent of a Rogue instead of the magic equivalent of a fighter.
Except that none of what you have added is necessary; a Magic action by its very nature is an unlevelled magical effect. If Metamagic is supposed to work with it then that would be for Metamagic or the Magic action rules to define.
Instead of bending over backwards to make a weak case for cantrips, take the two seconds to consider what the feature actually needs in order to function.
2. So you cut the narrative description so you wouldn’t increase the word count, but literally didn’t answer the more important question. Why? If the cantrip does the same thing as the feature why can’t it be a cantrip?
I showed the only change required to the text for it to function as a class feature; since it doesn't need to be a cantrip, why should it be a cantrip?
3. This new version is far superior in that aspect. The original tome pact gives you zero rituals. Book of ancient secrets is not a 2014 PHB invocation. While I believe it should be added to the 2024 PHB we might get it in a later book. Also the +Cha to all cantrips offered by the book is better than agonizing blast because the book also works on eldritch blast which means you just freed up a invocation.
The original ancient secrets gives you far more rituals overall, meanwhile your argument for the upgrade is that eldritch blast is still by far the biggest winner? So in other words it's a better option for the one build I don't want. So again, worse.
4. You also can choose what class you pick. What’s your point?
One is a choice, the other isn't. Why is that so hard to understand?
Someone else already pointed out they didn’t limit your cantrip choices (2) they literally gave you a free cantrip on the side. You still argued with them.
Because Warlock getting an extra cantrip should be a benefit to all Warlock players, not the one and only one type being catered for.
You're effectively arguing that I should be happy that in return for all the things that I liked about Warlock that are being lost, I'm getting something for free that I do not want? Do you not see the problem with that equation?
Yes class is also a choice, but changes to a class should not make me want to not choose it anymore; that's not progress.
But whatever, the survey is open now so I'll post my feedback there rather than wasting anymore of my time on this thread; hopefully Wizards of the Coast at least would like Warlock to appeal to more players rather than less.
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I mean, even the lore of Warlock is already showing they are NOT casters, they are Arcane Knights.
Warlock : swear a pact with an arcane being that gives you magical defenses and weapons Knight : swear an oath to a noble who gives you money for armour and weapons
Warlock : you serve the interests of you eldritch patron in negotiation, diplomacy, and military matters Knight : you serve the interests of your noble patron in negotiation, diplomacy, and military matters
Warlock : your interests and those of you patron may diverge in which case you must find a new patron, or swap class Knight : your interests and those of you patron may diverge in which case you must find a new patron, or swap career
An eldritch patron is not necessarily an unkillable innately powerful being, they don't want to make their servants powerful enough to supercede the patron anymore than a noble wants to make their knights powerful enough to conquer the patron's lands. Hence why the servant in inherently limited below what could be achieved by striking out on one's own.
Except that none of what you have added is necessary; a Magic action by its very nature is an unlevelled magical effect. If Metamagic is supposed to work with it then that would be for Metamagic or the Magic action rules to define.
Instead of bending over backwards to make a weak case for cantrips, take the two seconds to consider what the feature actually needs in order to function.
That's why your viewpoint is short-sighted. Have you stopped to consider that maybe they want those aspects to apply? They wanted to forestall arguments over whether you can rest and bond a weapon at the same time, or bond someone else's weapon, or break a bond with a dispel, or give you the means to Quicken it, or have it be affected by things that affected conjurations? You're the one leaping to those rules not being necessary just because you don't plan to use any of them, when you can just houserule that on your own anyway.
Being able to switch the spells offers versitility. The book of shadows is better 5th level feature is better than Agonizing Blast because it works for all cantrips. They won’t make agonizing blast work on all cantrips unless the increased it to a 5th level invocation. That would serve no purpose.
Sorry, I'm calling NONSENSE on this. Having more options is not inherently better, Eldritch Blast is designed to be a spell-equivalent of a weapon. You can't just take other spells not designed for that purpose and make them equivalent in damage to Eldritch Blast. Eldritch Blast will ALWAYS be the best damage cantrip using any other cantrip will be worse damage-wise so you had better be making good use of the rider that comes with it. It would be FAR simpler to just add extra invocations that modify Eldritch Blast, since they at least allow other invocations to stack on top as well (AB, Repelling, etc..).
e.g.
Frost Blast - When you cast Eldritch Blast you can choose to have it deal cold damage instead of force damage, if you do so the first creature you hit with this Eldritch Blast has its movement speed reduced by 10 ft until the start of your next turn.
Fire Blast - When you cast Eldritch Blast you can choose to have it deal fire damage instead of force damage, if you do so it ignites flammable object... ...
This is just utter foolishness because EB will ALWAYS be better because it has the built in Extra Attack feature. It's like building an EK and saying all of its cantrips should be equivalent in power to using a longbow. The ONLY alternative is the remove Eldritch Blast entirely and turning Hex into a warlock feature that is mathematically equivalent to Sneak Attack, and thus convert the Warlock into the magic equivalent of a Rogue instead of the magic equivalent of a fighter.
I’m calling non sense on you. A lot of the stuff y’all are looking for came in later books. The new tome boosting all cantrips is better because if you need a rider you still get to add +Cha and can still use EB without spending an invocation on AB. Harravik doesn’t want to use EB at all, but you could take tome pact and at level 5 switch AB for another invocation because you don’t need it anymore. They aren’t going to make EB even better than it already is by giving it elemental riders. Clearly Harravik is proof not everyone wants to cast EB every turn.
EB was a warlock feature in every edition warlock existed until 5e. Then they made it a warlock spell list only Cantrip.
Nitpick. The 4e core warlock did offer Eldritch Blast as an at-will option, but there were other options, and many builds that revolved around not using it at all. And that was before the Binder and Blade options in the Essentials line. Eldritch Blast was certainly the defining feature of the 3e class, but I wouldn't say that's "every edition" before 5e.
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It is still a point of identity that when you make something a core ability rather than an option to be choosing, you are inhibiting on the liberty of the player to choose how they play it.
You could chose to have a Druid who doesn’t use shapeshifting, but what would be the point? It is a defining part of that identity. By making Eldritch Blast a core feature rather than a spell, it will be seen that way too.
This is completely unavoidable. ALL features influence the identity of a class. You are literally arguing against all class features with that logic.
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There are lots of players who choose to play druids and not shape shift. EB has always been a core feature of Warlocks. It was a mistake for it not to be given as a feature when they released the 2014 PHB. EB was a warlock feature in every edition warlock existed until 5e. Then they made it a warlock spell list only Cantrip. But it’s still evident that it is meant to be a core feature of warlock. Look at warlock invocations in 5e. In the PHB there were 2 invocation dedicated to the cantrip. Then more released in later books. They don’t have any invocations dedicated to other cantrips on the warlock spell list. They are correcting course and making it part of the warlock features. Also correcting the 2 level dip problem EB+AB caused. Nothing for the warlock is loss because of this change. You can continue to not use EB if you want. Self nerfing is a thing many players enjoy doing.
It doesn't really simplify anything though; all they need to be is Magic actions you can take, there's no specific benefit to them being cantrips, which are more complex and create more surface area for potential problems and exploits. And structurally it's worse as well; even in the playtest PDF (which is a lot shorter than a PHB will be) it's a pain in the arse to refer to the pact boon options, even if they group them with the Warlock class it will still be more awkward, and only beg the question more of why they need to be cantrips.
Why do you prefer it though? It may give a bit more more in the short term (immediate Book of Ancient Secrets), but it gives you a lot less in the long term because that early access is nerfed.
Adding the modifier to other cantrips is… fine as a 5th-level upgrade but it doesn't compete with Agonizing Blast except on specific (mostly short ranged) cantrips you're not likely to want to build around. That's why I'd much rather they just re-scaled and opened up Agonizing Blast for that, because Pact of the Tome for me has always been about adding versatility, not just for building a blaster (that's what the invocations are for).
One of the things I'm mixed about with the updated pacts is that while they feel more significant, they also feel less flexible; in 5e it was up to you if your pact boon is just an extra sweetener or your main thing. You can grab Pact of the Blade purely to have an extra option when your back's against the wall, but still dedicate your invocations to blasting if you prefer, you can grab a familiar without doubling down on it etc. Honestly I'd rather they dropped the 5th-level scaling on the boons, and gave me an extra invocation choice at 5th-level so I can choose what upgrade(s) I want.
If I choose not to use it I'm effectively losing a cantrip, because unlike a build that does use it I need to spend another cantrip choice (and a specific pact boon) to use something else, this is what makes it feel like being railroaded into one specific choice (that's no longer a choice).
I don't care about past versions of the class, I care about the future version of the class; I never wanted to play Warlock before 5th-edition, and in its current state I won't want to play the OneD&D one.
Thanks to Mordenkainen's Monsters of the Multiverse practically every mage in the game now has a basic force damage cantrip except for the players, so it no longer makes any sense for eldritch blast to be Warlock only (though it will need to be weaker if it's made generally available, to balance against other cantrips). I'm fine with Warlocks still being the best cantrip blasters if you build them for that, but if I'm to go that route I want to choose which cantrip is my main one and be able to build up a choice of cantrips to a similar level of damage.
I want to be the one choosing what I build around, not Wizards of the Coast or die-hard Warlock traditionalists. 😝
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Old warlock had to use one of their two cantrip choices to pick of EB, if you didn't want EB you have 2 free cantrip picks. One D&D warlock still gets 2 free cantrip picks, but also gets EB for free. You have just as much flexibility in cantrip choice as you did before you just also get EB on your sheet which you are free to ignore. However in 5e warlock the choice to pick EB or not was mostly a false choice, if you main-Warlock then you are knee capping yourself if you don't take EB + AB in 5e, I played with a player that tried to do it and they are just utterly weak and useless. One D&D just makes this abundantly clear (though AB should be rolled into EB not as a separate invocation). Playing a Warlock and not using EB is like playing a paladin and never using a weapon - sure you can do that but you're character is crippled if you choose to do so. For 5e Warlock if you don't want to spam EB then you play a Hexblade (probably MC) and spam weapon attacks instead.
Though I hate to throw the half caster Warlock a bone, the addition of Mystic Arcanum means that they do have unique scaling. It's sort of half caster and sort of full caster.
The problem is that Mystic Arcanum compete with invocations, and almost none of the invocations are good enough to justify taking them over Mystic Arcanum.
So instead just automatically add Mystic Arcanum at odd levels from 3 to 17, for spells level 2 to 9. Moreover make the spell count as a "known" spells so once you get a spell slot of the appropriate level you can choose to cast it with said spell slot and even upcast it once you get higher level slots.
2. If they make them a features that use a magic action, but do exactly what they do now they literally have to increase the books word count to explain each feature works as a magic. There is already a section that explains how cantrips work. If it’s a magic action that works just like a cantrip why not make it a cantrip?
3. Being able to switch the spells offers versitility. The book of shadows is better 5th level feature is better than Agonizing Blast because it works for all cantrips. They won’t make agonizing blast work on all cantrips unless the increased it to a 5th level invocation. That would serve no purpose.
4. Calling it a waste of a cantrip is the same as calling all the bonus spells subclasses give you a waste of a spell because you don’t want to use it. It’s fine if you don’t want to use it, but it’s there by design nothing was wasted. Eldritch Blast would never be on every casters spell list. Giving every character access to everything doesn’t make the game more fun. It actually just has everyone playing the same optimized characters or just being weaker than others. Also because of time pact you literally have more options to build around whatever cantrip you want. Eldritch Blast is still more powerful of a choice, but you get to add Cha to any cantrip of your choice. That wasn’t an option in 5e.
If they altered Mystic Arcanum to give you a spell slot and a spell known of the chosen level instead casting without a spell slot it would be fine as an invocation. The flaw is it would still be a must pick invocation. The added value to the must pick might make it okay.
The Sorcerer is not getting 1 cantrip but 1 cantrip and 4 spells fixed. But they are spells only for convenience for the new mechanics, as they are given for free. If instead they were simply class features (putting its corresponding catchy description), would we be discussing about it? Probably we would merely accept it as class feature like any other as an extra.
It's still creating a balance issue though, because the eldritch blaster build has three cantrips and a build ignoring eldritch blast effectively only has two, so that's a 50% difference. This isn't so much of a problem with hex which works with pretty much any build.
Hexblade isn't really required for a bladelock unless you need the armour mastery, but I've never had any particular problem just using armor of shadows + armor of agathys, aside from losing an invocation pick to do it (but if you're not taking Agonizing Blast that's not usually a problem).
Despite its theming Hexblade isn't otherwise really bound to bladelock at all, and Hexblade's Curse doesn't even require a weapon, it's only the 30 foot range that stops it from being super easy for a blaster to make use of, but in any fight that starts close you can just activate it and move away.
I would say the Undying is the easiest option for bladelock now, I also particularly like Fathomless.
While I could probably settle for built in arcanums returning as a compromise between half-casting and full custom scaling, I'd still mourn the loss of the pact scaling as I really liked that the slots were always of the highest levels, as it meant a Warlock who could get some short rests in can throw out more mid-level spells than any other caster. While keeping some of that flavour on long rest is tricky, I think it's worth keeping if at all possible.
But there still needs to be a solid mix of invocations regardless, because as you say most just aren't worth taking (especially with Mystic Arcanum as an option), which is why such a limited selection is so frustrating, as the ones that are there aren't exactly a balanced group.
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"Tracing arcane sigils in the air, you conjure a Simple or Martial melee weapon of your choice in your outstretched hand, or you create a bond with a magic weapon you touch."
becomes
"As a Magic action on your turn you trace arcane sigils in the air and conjure a Simple or Martial melee weapon of your choice in your outstretched hand, or you create a bond with a magic weapon you touch."
Done.
It's not as much versatility as having immediate access to any ritual you might need, when you need it, rather than needing a full extra hour (on top of the ritual itself). And the damage boost is less valuable on other cantrips; fire bolt getting +CHA simply isn't as good as eldritch blast getting +2xCHA (once per beam).
Changing Agonizing Blast is simple; it just needs to scale differently so it's equivalent regardless of the cantrip you slap it on top of, basically same as they did for hex.
I can choose which sub-class I go.
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Hidden rules added.
I would be fine with slotless MA baseline and slot conversion as an invocation.
2. So you cut the narrative description so you wouldn’t increase the word count, but literally didn’t answer the more important question. Why? If the cantrip does the same thing as the feature why can’t it be a cantrip?
3. This new version is far superior in that aspect. The original tome pact gives you zero rituals. Book of ancient secrets is not a 2014 PHB invocation. While I believe it should be added to the 2024 PHB we might get it in a later book.
Also the +Cha to all cantrips offered by the book is better than agonizing blast because the book also works on eldritch blast which means you just freed up a invocation.
4. You also can choose what class you pick. What’s your point? Someone else already pointed out they didn’t limit your cantrip choices (2) they literally gave you a free cantrip on the side. You still argued with them. It’s like I’m making patty melts so I’m putting cheese on them. You say I don’t want the cheese. So I pull it off yours and leave it to the side and you get mad I didn’t give you something to replace the cheese. The cheese is here if you want it, but I’m not inclined to give you something else instead of the cheese. The cheese is actually a part of the design.
Sorry, I'm calling NONSENSE on this. Having more options is not inherently better, Eldritch Blast is designed to be a spell-equivalent of a weapon. You can't just take other spells not designed for that purpose and make them equivalent in damage to Eldritch Blast. Eldritch Blast will ALWAYS be the best damage cantrip using any other cantrip will be worse damage-wise so you had better be making good use of the rider that comes with it. It would be FAR simpler to just add extra invocations that modify Eldritch Blast, since they at least allow other invocations to stack on top as well (AB, Repelling, etc..).
e.g.
Frost Blast - When you cast Eldritch Blast you can choose to have it deal cold damage instead of force damage, if you do so the first creature you hit with this Eldritch Blast has its movement speed reduced by 10 ft until the start of your next turn.
Fire Blast - When you cast Eldritch Blast you can choose to have it deal fire damage instead of force damage, if you do so it ignites flammable object...
...
This is just utter foolishness because EB will ALWAYS be better because it has the built in Extra Attack feature. It's like building an EK and saying all of its cantrips should be equivalent in power to using a longbow. The ONLY alternative is the remove Eldritch Blast entirely and turning Hex into a warlock feature that is mathematically equivalent to Sneak Attack, and thus convert the Warlock into the magic equivalent of a Rogue instead of the magic equivalent of a fighter.
Except that none of what you have added is necessary; a Magic action by its very nature is an unlevelled magical effect. If Metamagic is supposed to work with it then that would be for Metamagic or the Magic action rules to define.
Instead of bending over backwards to make a weak case for cantrips, take the two seconds to consider what the feature actually needs in order to function.
I showed the only change required to the text for it to function as a class feature; since it doesn't need to be a cantrip, why should it be a cantrip?
The original ancient secrets gives you far more rituals overall, meanwhile your argument for the upgrade is that eldritch blast is still by far the biggest winner? So in other words it's a better option for the one build I don't want. So again, worse.
One is a choice, the other isn't. Why is that so hard to understand?
Because Warlock getting an extra cantrip should be a benefit to all Warlock players, not the one and only one type being catered for.
You're effectively arguing that I should be happy that in return for all the things that I liked about Warlock that are being lost, I'm getting something for free that I do not want? Do you not see the problem with that equation?
Yes class is also a choice, but changes to a class should not make me want to not choose it anymore; that's not progress.
But whatever, the survey is open now so I'll post my feedback there rather than wasting anymore of my time on this thread; hopefully Wizards of the Coast at least would like Warlock to appeal to more players rather than less.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I mean, even the lore of Warlock is already showing they are NOT casters, they are Arcane Knights.
Warlock : swear a pact with an arcane being that gives you magical defenses and weapons
Knight : swear an oath to a noble who gives you money for armour and weapons
Warlock : you serve the interests of you eldritch patron in negotiation, diplomacy, and military matters
Knight : you serve the interests of your noble patron in negotiation, diplomacy, and military matters
Warlock : your interests and those of you patron may diverge in which case you must find a new patron, or swap class
Knight : your interests and those of you patron may diverge in which case you must find a new patron, or swap career
An eldritch patron is not necessarily an unkillable innately powerful being, they don't want to make their servants powerful enough to supercede the patron anymore than a noble wants to make their knights powerful enough to conquer the patron's lands. Hence why the servant in inherently limited below what could be achieved by striking out on one's own.
That's why your viewpoint is short-sighted. Have you stopped to consider that maybe they want those aspects to apply? They wanted to forestall arguments over whether you can rest and bond a weapon at the same time, or bond someone else's weapon, or break a bond with a dispel, or give you the means to Quicken it, or have it be affected by things that affected conjurations? You're the one leaping to those rules not being necessary just because you don't plan to use any of them, when you can just houserule that on your own anyway.
I’m calling non sense on you. A lot of the stuff y’all are looking for came in later books. The new tome boosting all cantrips is better because if you need a rider you still get to add +Cha and can still use EB without spending an invocation on AB. Harravik doesn’t want to use EB at all, but you could take tome pact and at level 5 switch AB for another invocation because you don’t need it anymore. They aren’t going to make EB even better than it already is by giving it elemental riders. Clearly Harravik is proof not everyone wants to cast EB every turn.
Nitpick. The 4e core warlock did offer Eldritch Blast as an at-will option, but there were other options, and many builds that revolved around not using it at all. And that was before the Binder and Blade options in the Essentials line. Eldritch Blast was certainly the defining feature of the 3e class, but I wouldn't say that's "every edition" before 5e.