I figured it would be useful to put all the ideas that people have come up with to help the Monk in one place. Not for discussing if Monk needs help, mind you. I only have so many ideas myself, but the concept of the thread is that I'm not the only one pitching them. If you have an idea, if you've seen an idea on another thread/outside of the forums, or even if you just have a variation on an idea that's already listed, go ahead and make a post and I'll probably add it to the list. Remember, nothing is too out-( or in-)there, and just because you don't think an idea is good by itself doesn't mean it has no potential. Oh, and don't bother formatting any suggestions- I can do that stuff.
Give the Monk one or two extra Ability Score Improvements, so that they can get better scores in their main stats and have more room to customize with feats.
Alternative AC
Credit: Various Addresses: Survivability, maybe MADness
Use a different method of calculating AC. Possibilities include:
10 + Proficiency Bonus + Dexterity modifier
13 + Dexterity modifier + Monk level divided by 4
10 + Dexterity or Wisdom modifier + Proficiency Bonus (calculated by total level in classes with Unarmored Defense)
Alternative Discipline
Credit: Various Addresses: Resource Management
Use a different method of calculating total Discipline Points. Possibilities include:
Give the Monk proficiency in either some or all martial weapons, and let them be used for MA. It allows more freedom in flavor, increases damage output, allows access to combat-centric feats, and gives more options in terms of masteries. I will not that it has the possibility of removing some uniqueness from the Monk.
Alternatively, remove the heavy and two-handed restrictions. As it stands, all they do is hedge out the greatclub, which is pretty pointless considering it's just as good as the quarterstaff.
It's in the name. Considering how melee-oriented the Monk is, it's peculiar how sub-par their hit die is. It's inferior to those of Paladin, Ranger, Fighter, and Barbarian. Most notable from that list are Paladin and Barbarian, both comparable to Monk in reliance on melee and possessing d10 and d12 hit dice, respectively.
Dazing Strike
Credit: ? Addresses: Utility
If the target of Stunning Strike succeeds on the saving throw, then they are affected by the Dazed condition instead of Stunned. This makes Stunning Strike less of an all-in option.
Deflect Attack
Credit: Xzeption Addresses: Survivability
As simple as it is effective. Make Deflect Missiles work against melee attacks as well as ranged attacks. It turns a relatively situational feature into a reliable way to improve how long the Monk can last in a combat. It also better represents the Monk trope of parrying swords, fists, and whatever else with just waves of your hand.
Fancy Fistwork
Credit: Whoever put Monk in the Warrior group Addresses: Customization, Damage, Utility
Let Monks apply some, if not all, of the Weapon Masteries to their fists. Currently, the Monk is probably the worst out of all classes when it comes to using Weapon Mastery, which doesn't really make sense considering they're in the Warrior group.
Feature Movement
Credit: Various Addresses: Everything
Move around the levels at which features are gained for Monks so that more iconic and effective features are gained earlier. Possibilities:
Move Disciplined Survivor to 9th or 10th.
Move Acrobatic Movement to 7th level or sooner.
Move Heightened Metabolism to one of the first three levels, maybe changing it from a full short rest to just discipline recovery in order to reduce multiclass abuse.
Fighting Style
Credit: Whoever put Monk in the Warrior group Addresses: Customization, Damage
In the title. It's really a no-brainer. It gets them access to all the Fighting Style feats at ASIs, as well. To give them more options, maybe let Defense not need armor (which was always pretty stupid anyways) and add in a couple more styles that work well with the Monk's toolset.
Alternatively, add in a Monk-specific thing that builds on Fighting Styles, but also resembles the Divine Order of the Cleric. It could focus on different ideas of the Monk that people have, so that the fighting about what it's supposed to be can stop.
Grapplemonk
Credit: Xzeption Addresses: Utility
Let the DC for Grapple and Shove scale off of Dexterity (or even Wisdom) for Monks. This could let them do something useful in combat besides their current go-tos, running and punching. It also just makes sense; why should the most unarmed-oriented character there is not be able to use 2/3 of the options for Unarmed Strikes? Maybe even let shoves shove further and grapples do something extra (or just have a higher chance of working) for the Monk.
An invocation-like system that lets different Monks focus on different aspects of martial arts. Very cool stuff!
Martial Stance
Credit: Ain_Undos Addresses: Resource Management
Let Flurry of Blows, Patience Defense, and Step of the Wind let you use their respective bonus actions for either a minute or 10 minutes without further use of discipline points.
Alternatively, add all-new abilities for stances instead of just adapting the current discipline-based abilities. An example of how this could be done can be seen here.
Mind over Body
Credit: Quar1on Addresses: MADness, Survivability
Basically, remove the Monk's reliance on Constitution. Every level you take in Monk increases your Max HP by a roll of your hit die/average plus your Wisdom modifier, instead of Constitution. It improves HP, cuts down on MADness, and it makes Monk stand out in a very unique way. It also lets players go with the classic Monk trope of "frail old guy that can beat your ass," as well as playing into the more general Monk flavor of reaching spiritual perfection to reach physical perfection.
Mystical Wallop
Credit: ? Addresses: Damage
In order to keep up with magic weapons, either add some more items that improve unarmed strikes or give +1, +2, and +3 bonuses to unarmed strikes to Monks at certain levels.
Pop Pop
Credit: Whoever made the first revision of the light property Addresses: Damage, Utility
Let the extra unarmed strike that the Monk gets be a part of the same action as the attack that allows it to be used, instead of the current bonus action. This lets it stay more in line with the current Nick mastery, instead of the old two-weapon fighting that it seems to have been based on. This extra attack could come with or without Dexterity added to the damage. Presumably this change would also come with a modification to Flurry of Blows.
Pure Martial
Credit: Various Addresses: MADness
Completely take Wisdom out of the Monk, scaling DCs off of Dexterity and providing a new way to calculate AC (see Alternative AC).
Shorter Rest
Credit: 4e? Addresses: Resource Management
Make short rests take 10 minutes instead of an hour, across all classes. This already has a precedent with the old catnap as well as the playtest version of prayer of healing, which took 10 minutes to cast and granted the effects of a short rest. These both show that it's not exactly breaking anything to get a 10 minute short rest. A change like this would effectively make discipline a per-encounter resource, and allow Monks to not have to rely so heavily on the willingness of more long rest-reliant party members.
Stronk
Credit: DarkSch666 Addresses: Customization
Remove the complete reliance on Dexterity, allowing Strength to be integrated with the class more and providing a new way to calculate AC (see Alternative AC). This could allow much more customization and variety within the class, and would allow it to fill more of a Street Fighter-esque fantasy. It should be noted that it's possible for a similar Strength-based pugilist role to be filled by a Fighter or Barbarian subclass or fighting style.
Completely remove Discipline Points from the Monk, and let features be limited by action economy and per-round use limitations instead. With some rebalancing of features, it could take a lot of the load off of the Monk.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
[Updating Monk to UA changes] Using DEX and/or WIS for the Unarmed Strike Grapple/Shove DC.
[Updating Monk to UA changes] Adding Weapon Masteries to Unarmed Strikes. For streamlining rules (current UA allows for attacking 3 times at level 1), I would prefer the Nick mastery instead of the Bonus Action Unarmed Strike.
[customization] Adding a Fighting Style.
[Resource management] Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind lasting 1 or 10 minutes (aka a whole combat). With changing Discipline Points to Long Rest instead of Short Rest.
Stunning Strike causing the Dazed condition when the target succeeds the saving throw.
[Offense] Providing a +1, +2, and +3 bonus to attack rolls for Unarmed Strikes at appropriate levels to match magic weapons.
[survivability] Moving Diamond Soul/Disciplined Survivor from 14th Level to either level 9 or 10 (or split between the two).
[Resource management] Making Warrior of the Elements a 1/3 caster.
The main problem with the Monk is that it is constantly compared to other classes because of the perception that it doesn't have a unique playstyle, but rather is just a melee fighter that uses unarmed strikes rather than a weapon. As a result it will always be viewed as subpar because other classes are designed to be that much more so than the monk - e.g. Paladin and Barbarian are always going to be more tanky and deal more damage than the monk. Thus the only way to justify the Monk continuing to exist is to lead into it's unique playstyle as a martial-controller rather than a fighter-type.
Design:
Deflect Attacks
expand Deflect Missiles to apply to all attacks and remove the DP cost to make the return attack which is either a melee attack or ranged attack against the attacker.
Unarmoured Movement
Move running up walls and across water to level 7, and make all their movement not provoke attacks of opportunity unless they choose to provoke at level 9
Martial Arts
add the ability to use Dex for Grapple / Shove
Flurry of Blows
add the ability that if replacing the extra attack with a Grapple / Shove the Grapple save is at DisAdv and the Shove distance increases to 20 ft. Allow FoB to be used even if your Action was used for something other than Attack
Patient Defense
add the option to use it as a reaction to getting attacked rather than as a Bonus Action
Step of the Wind
Remove DP cost and include both Dash & Disengage
Unarmed Mastery
Choose any weapon mastery that doesn't have prerequisites and apply it to your unarmed strikes
MartialStrikes (Replaces Stunning Strike)
When you hit a creature with a weapon attack or unarmed strike you can spend 1 DP to cause one of the effects below:
Face-Strike : Deal extra damage equal to one roll of your MA die and the target must make a Con save vs your DP DC or be blinded until the start of your next turn.
Upper Cut: Use a Bonus action to fling them vertically 10 ft upwards. If they fall they take 1d6 falling damage and land prone
Mystic Strike: The target must make a Wis save vs your DP DC or be Incapacitated until the start of your next turn. On a successful save, they are immune to your Mystic strike until the start of your next turn.
Staggering Strike: The target must make a Dex save vs your DP DC or be Dazed until the start of your next turn.
Subclass specific Martial Strikes:
Open Hand: (level 6) Repelling Strike: The target is pushed 20 ft away from you, if the creature collides with a solid object or another creature both the target and what it collided with take force damage equal to one roll of your martial arts die.
Open Hand (level 11): Quivering Strike: The target is marked by tiny vibrations, at any point in the next 10 minutes you can use your reaction to cause them to take psychic damage equal to two rolls of your martial arts die and be Stunned until the end of the current turn.
Shadow (level 6): Back Stab: You can teleport to a location within 5 ft of the target and immediately make one weapon attack or unarmed strike with your bonus action. This additional attack is made at advantage and deals additional necrotic damage equal to two rolls of your martial arts die on a hit.
Shadow (level 11): Throat Cut: If your target is Prone or Incapacitated, they take additional damage equal to four rolls of your martial arts die.
Elemental (level 6): Ensnare: the target must succeed on a Str save vs your DP DC or be restrained until the start of your next turn.
Elemental (level 11): Elemental Burst: targets of your choice within 20 ft of the target take elemental damage (choose: acid, fire, cold, lightning, thunder) equal to two rolls of your martial arts die.
Survivability: d10 hp, AC=13+Dex+1/(every fourth level in monk).
Resource starvation: start with 6 discipline points +1/(every three levels in monk), refresh upon rolling initiative. Big and noncombat features are per long rest.
MAD: AC no longer depends on Wis. Monk save DC works off Dex.
My main point: why should monk depend on Wis at all? If a class has two ability scores it depends on, it should present a choice what aspect to lean into while being effective, rather than an obligation to take both, sacrificing feats just to function on a basic level. Paladin can choose whether they want more holy or more warrior in their holy warrior class, they've got enough riding on Cha to justify lower Str. But monks need both Dex and Wis. Badly.
Some would say, but what about their spiritual side? Well, it's in the class features. Barbarian has a primal connection, a feral side... Why doesn't it depend on Wis? Imagine if rage uses and rage damage bonus were dictated by Wis. That would be ridiculous. But that's the monk reality. The only warrior and only non-magical class to be MAD.
My idea/suggestion, starting with (based upon) the Play Test 6 document version of the Monk (Martial Art Masteries make the class a lot more complex, so I would probably move the class to the same expansion book that will include the Artificer):
1st Level: replace Weapon Mastery and the existing "Martial Arts" feature with:
Monastic Discipline -- You may use Dexterity with your unarmed strikes and simple weapons (not including weapons with the Two Handed property).You also pick one of the three fundamental disciplines of your Monastic Order:
Mind over Matter: Your discipline is based upon channeling psionic energy into unarmed combat. You use INT as your mystical attribute (DC calculations for your special abilities, etc.), Martial Arts attack and damage bonus, and Unarmored Defense bonus.At 6th level or higher, with each individual attack, you may choose to do Psychic damage instead of Bludgeoning damage with your Unarmed Strikes.
Spirit over Matter: Your discipline is based upon channeling spiritual energy into unarmed combat. You use WIS as your mystical attribute (DC calculations for your special abilities, etc.), Martial Arts attack and damage bonus, and Unarmored Defense bonus.At 6th level or higher, with each individual attack, you may choose to do Radiant damage instead of Bludgeoning damage with your Unarmed Strikes.
Vitality over Matter: Your discipline is based upon channeling vital energy into unarmed combat. You use CON as your mystical attribute (DC calculations for your special abilities, etc.), Martial Arts attack and damage bonus, and Unarmored Defense bonus.At 6th level or higher, with each individual attack, you may choose to do Necrotic damage instead of Bludgeoning damage with your Unarmed Strikes.
Martial Arts
You are qualified to take the Fighting Style feats, but you do not get one as part of this feature.
You gain the following Martial Arts Masteries:
Martial Arts Die (d6)
Bonus Unarmed Strike
Three Free Picks from those Martial Arts Masteries that don't have a level requirement. (standard: Unarmored Defense, and two free picks)
2nd Level: replace the 3 sub-abilities of "Martial Discipline" with:
You gain four more Martial Arts Masteries for which you meet the requirements (standard: Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, Step of the Wind, Unarmored Movement +10, and one free pick)
3rd Level:
Subclass
Disciplined Attack When you spend 1 or more Discipline Points during your turn, you may make one attack with an unarmed strike, as a Bonus Action before the end of your turn.
Two Martial Arts Masteries (standard: Deflect Melee Attacks, Deflect Missile Attacks)
4th Level:
ASI
Two Martial Arts Masteries (standard: Slow Fall, and one free pick)
5th Level:
Extra Attack
Two Martial Arts Masteries (standard: Stunning Strike, Martial Arts Die (d8) )
6th Level:
Subclass Feature
Empowered Strikes (not a Martial Arts Mastery) When your unarmed strikes deal damage to a creature, they are magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance to Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing damage.Further you may choose to have each strike deal its normal damage type(s), or Force damage, or the type of damage indicated by your Monastic Discipline.
One Martial Arts Mastery (standard: Unarmored Movement +15)
7th Level:
Two Martial Arts Masteries (standard: Evasion, Heightened Metabolism)
8th Level:
ASI
9th Level:
Two Martial Arts Masteries (standard: Acrobatic Movement, and one free pick)
10th Level:
Two Martial Arts Masteries (standard: Self Restoration, Unarmored Movement +20)
11th Level:
Subclass Feature
One Martial Arts Mastery (standard: Martial Arts Die (d10))
12th Level:
ASI
13th Level:
One Martial Arts Mastery (standard: Deflect Energy)
14th Level:
Disciplined Survivor (not a Martial Arts Mastery)
15th Level:
Perfect Discipline (not a Martial Arts Mastery)
One Martial Arts Mastery
16th Level:
ASI
17th Level:
Subclass Feature
One Martial Arts Mastery (standard: Martial Arts Die (d12))
18th Level:
Superior Defense (not a Martial Arts Mastery)
One Martial Arts Mastery (standard: Unarmored Movement +20)
19th Level:
ASI
20th Level:
Defy Death (not a Martial Arts Mastery)
Martial Arts Masteries:
(Note: Any Martial Art Mastery that requires Unarmored Defense, or one of the features that directly or indirectly requires Unarmored Defense, has the same requirement that the user cannot be wearing any form of armor nor wielding a shield when using or benefitting from that Martial Art Mastery.)
Most of these are based on things that were previously Monk class features, as well as some from Weapon Masteries, the Rogue's Cunning Attack, optional Monk class Features from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, and the 1e Oriental Adventures book.
Martial Arts Die (d6) Requirements: None for d6, 5th level for d8, 11th level for d10, and 17th level for d12.Each die improvement requires the previous die type. Benefit: Your unarmed Strikes do 1d6 damage plus the ability modifier that you use for Martial Arts. Can Be Taken more than Once (four times total).Each successive time increases the die from d6 to d8, then d8 to d10, and last d10 to d12.
Unarmored Defense Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6) Benefit: (same as the Monk class feature of the same name)
Bonus Unarmed Strike Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6) Benefit: (Same as the Monk class sub-feature of the same name)
Flurry of Blows Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6), Discipline Points Benefit: the same as the Monk ability of the same name.
Patient Defense Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6), Discipline Points Benefit: the same as the Monk ability of the same name.
Step of the Wind Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6), Discipline Points Benefit: the same as the Monk ability of the same name.
Improved Martial Strike Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6), Discipline Points, 6th Level Benefit: Once per turn, when hit a creature with an unarmed strike attack roll, you can spend 2 Discipline Points and add an extra roll of your martial arts die to the damage.The damage type can be any of the types your unarmed strikes are capable of inflicting, but does not otherwise need to be the same type of damage as the strike that invoked this feature.
Disarm Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6), Discipline Points Benefit: the same as the Rogue Cunning Attack ability of the same name. Costs 1 Discipline Point
Trip Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6), Discipline Points Benefit: the same as the Rogue Cunning Attack ability of the same name. Costs 1 Discipline Point
Unarmored Movement +10 Requirements: Unarmored Defense, 2nd level for +10, 6th level for +15, 10th level for +20, 14th level for +25, 18th level for +30, each improvement requires the previous improvement. Benefit: (same as the Monk class feature of the same name) Can Be Taken more than Once (five times total).Each successive time increases the movement bonus.
Deflect Attacks Requirements: Unarmored Defense Benefit: As with the non-Discipline Point part (first paragraph) of the Monk Feature "Deflect Missiles", but can be used against melee attacks, ranged attacks, and unarmed strikes.
Redirect Attacks Requirements: Deflect Attacks, Discipline Points Benefit: As with the Discipline Point part (second paragraph) of the Monk Feature "Deflect Missiles", but can be used against melee attacks, ranged attacks, and unarmed strikes.
Slow Fall Requirements: Unarmored Movement, 4th Level Benefit: (same as the Monk class feature of the same name)
Stunning Strike Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d8), Discipline Points Benefit: (same as the Monk class feature of the same name)
Evasion Requirements: 7th Level Benefit: Same as the Monk feature of the same name.
Heightened Metabolism Requirements: 7th Level Benefit: Same as the Monk feature of the same name.
Acrobatic Movement Requirements: Slow Fall Benefit: Same as the Monk feature of the same name.
Self Restoration Requirements: 10th Level Benefit: Same as the Monk feature of the same name.
Deflect Energy Requirements: Redirect Attacks Benefit: You can use Deflect Attacks and Redirect Attacks against any damage types.
Choke Hold Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d8) Benefit: Every round in which you have a creature Grappled, one of the creatures Grappled by you must make a CON stave against becoming unconscious.
Lock Hold Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d8) Benefit: When you have a creature Grappled by you, they can't make attacks against any target other than you, and they have disadvantage on attack rolls against you.
Vicious Hold: Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6) Benefit: At the start of your turn you may roll one martial arts die to deal that much damage to one creature Grappled by you.
Immovable Requirements: Unarmored Movement +10 Benefit: When you are Grappled, you can also set speed of the opponent(s) that has you grappled to 0 even if they aren't grappled.
Reversal Requirements: 2nd Level Benefit: When an opponent applies the Grappled condition to you, you may use your Reaction to grapple them.If you succeed, they are Grappled and you are not.
Kip-Up Requirements: None Benefit: If you are prone, but not Grappled, Incapacitated, Restrained, nor Unconscious, you can stand up from prone by spending 5 feet of movement.
Blind Fighting Requirements: None Benefit: You have Blind Sight with a range of 10 feet, within that range you can effectively see anything that isn't behind total cover, even if you're blinded or in total darkness.You can also see Invisible creatures within that range, unless the creature successfully hides from you.
Prone Fighting Requirements: Slow Fall Benefit: You are not at disadvantage due to being Prone, nor do creatures get Advantage to attack rolls made against you.
Crescent Attack Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d8) Benefit: If you hit a creature with an unarmed strike, you can make an attack roll against a second creature within 5 feet of the original target, that is also within your unarmed strike reach.If that attack roll hits, the second creature takes the same damage as the original attack, but without your ability modifier to that damage (unless that modifier is negative).You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
Push Benefit: As with the Weapon Mastery, but you can only apply it to Unarmed Strikes
Sap Benefit: As with the Weapon Mastery, but you can only apply it to Unarmed Strikes
Slow Benefit: As with the Weapon Mastery, but you can only apply it to Unarmed Strikes
Vex Benefit: As with the Weapon Mastery, but you can only apply it to Unarmed Strikes
Focused Aim Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d8), Discipline Points Benefit: When you miss with an attack roll, you can spend 1 to 3 Discipline Points to increase your attack roll by twice the mount of Discipline Points, potentially turning the miss into a hit.
Paralyzing Strike Requirements: Stunning Strike, Discipline Points Benefit: Like Stunning Strike, except that it costs 2 Discipline Points, and imposes the Paralyzed condition for a number of turns equal to half of one roll of your martial arts die.
Iron Skin Requirements: Unarmored Defense Benefit: when you are utilizing Unarmored Defense, you gain a +2 bonus to your AC.
Levitation Requirements: Slow Fall, Discipline Points Benefit: You can spend 3 Discipline Points to cast Levitate on yourself.
Weapon Breaker Requirements: Redirect Attacks, Discipline Points Benefit: Instead of redirecting the damage to another creature, you can cause the weapon to take the damage.
Feat: Martial Arts Initiate Requirements: None Benefit: Your unarmed strikes deal damage equal to 1d4 + your Strength modifier.Further, you may select two Martial Arts Mastery features, for which you otherwise have all of the requirements.If an ability allows a saving throw, use your Strength Modified in the calculation of that saving throw DC. (note: if you have this feat available, the Fighting Style feat for Unarmed Fighting should not be brought forward from 5e)
Feat: Disciplined Warrior Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6). Benefit: You have 2 Discipline Points (or two more if you already have Discipline Points).You regain these spent Discipline Points, if you have spent any of them, when you complete a Short Rest or Long Rest.You may also select one Martial Arts Mastery for which you have all of the requirements, and that costs Discipline Points.If an ability allows a saving throw, use your Strength Modified in the calculation of that saving throw DC.
Leap Requirements: Step of the Wind, Discipline Points Benefit: You can spend 2 Discipline Points to cast Jump on yourself, without any components.
Escape Artist Requirements: 7th Level, Discipline Points Benefit: you can spend 5 Discipline Points to cast Freedom of Movement on yourself, without any components.
Alright, I spent some time updating the list. Tell me if I missed something or if you have more ideas.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I figured it would be useful to put all the ideas that people have come up with to help the Monk in one place. Not for discussing if Monk needs help, mind you. I only have so many ideas myself, but the concept of the thread is that I'm not the only one pitching them. If you have an idea, if you've seen an idea on another thread/outside of the forums, or even if you just have a variation on an idea that's already listed, go ahead and make a post and I'll probably add it to the list. Remember, nothing is too out-( or in-)there, and just because you don't think an idea is good by itself doesn't mean it has no potential. Oh, and don't bother formatting any suggestions- I can do that stuff.
Alternate AC
Credit: Various Addresses: Survivability, maybe MADness
Use a different way of calculating AC. Possibilities include:
It's in the name. Considering how melee-oriented the Monk is, it's peculiar how sub-par their hit die is. It's inferior to those of Paladin, Ranger, Fighter, and Barbarian. Most notable from that list are Paladin and Barbarian, both comparable to Monk in reliance on melee and possessing d10 and d12 hit dice, respectively.
Dazing Strike
Credit: ? Addresses: Utility
If the target of Stunning Strike succeeds on the saving throw, then they are affected by the Dazed condition instead of Stunned. This makes Stunning Strike less of an all-in option.
Deflect Attack
Credit: Xzeption Addresses: Survivability
As simple as it is effective. Make Deflect Missiles work against melee attacks as well as ranged attacks. It turns a relatively situational feature into a reliable way to improve how long the Monk can last in a combat. It also better represents the Monk trope of parrying swords, fists, and whatever else with just waves of your hand.
Fancy Fistwork
Credit: Whoever put Monk in the Warrior group Addresses: Customization, Damage, Utility
Let Monks apply some, if not all, of the Weapon Masteries to their fists. Currently, the Monk is probably the worst out of all classes when it comes to using Weapon Mastery, which doesn't really make sense considering they're in the Warrior group.
Feature Movement
Credit: Various Addresses: Everything
Move around the levels at which features are gained for Monks so that more iconic and effective features are gained earlier. Possibilities:
Move Disciplined Survivor to 9th or 10th.
Let Monks run up walls and across water at 7th level.
Fighting Style
Credit: Whoever put Monk in the Warrior group Addresses: Customization, Damage
In the title. It's really a no-brainer. It gets them access to all the Fighting Style feats, as well. To give them more options, maybe let Defense not need armor (which was always pretty stupid anyways) and add in a couple more styles that work well with the Monk's toolset.
Grapplemonk
Credit: Xzeption Addresses: Utility
Let the DC for Grapple and Shove scale off of Dexterity (or even Wisdom) for Monks. This could let them do something useful in combat besides their current go-tos, running and punching. It also just makes sense; why should the most unarmed-oriented character there is not be able to use 2/3 of the options for Unarmed Strikes? Maybe even let shoves shove further and grapples do something extra (or just have a higher chance of working) for the Monk.
An invocation-like system that lets different Monks focus on different aspects of martial arts. Very cool stuff!
Martial Stance
Credit: ? Addresses: Resource Management
Let Flurry of Blows, Patience Defense, and Step of the Wind let you use their respective bonus actions for either a minute or 10 minutes without further use of discipline points.
Mind over Body
Credit: Quar1on Addresses: MADness, Survivability
Basically, remove the Monk's reliance on Constitution. Every level you take in Monk increases your Max HP by a roll of your hit die/average plus your Wisdom modifier, instead of Constitution. It improves HP, cuts down on MADness, and it makes Monk stand out in a very unique way. It also lets players go with the classic Monk trope of "frail old guy that can beat your ass," as well as playing into the more general Monk flavor of reaching spiritual perfection to reach physical perfection.
Mystical Wallop
Credit: ? Addresses: Damage
In order to keep up with magic weapons, either add some more items that improve unarmed strikes or give +1, +2, and +3 bonuses to unarmed strikes to Monks at certain levels.
Pure Martial
Credit: Various Addresses: MADness
Completely take Wisdom out of the Monk, scaling DCs off of Dexterity and providing a new way to calculate AC (see Alternate AC).
Shorter Rest
Credit: 4e? Addresses: Resource Management
Make short rests take 10 minutes instead of an hour, across all classes. This already has a precedent with the old catnap as well as the playtest version of prayer of healing, which took 10 minutes to cast and granted the effects of a short rest. These both show that it's not exactly breaking anything to get a 10 minute short rest. A change like this would effectively make discipline a per-encounter resource, and allow Monks to not have to rely so heavily on the willingness of more long rest-reliant party members.
This is really really good stuff. Thanks for creating the thread.
1. The monk is already set up for 1 minute short rests at level 7. I think it should start at the beginning since ki also starts at the beginning.
2. D10 hit die, absolutely.
3. I really like the idea of wisdom being your health instead of con. That is a phenomenal idea! Takes away the problem of having to specialize in too many skills.
4. Dex for grapples and shoves, really good. This would be so simple and great because the monk would be able to replace one of their attacks with a shove to allow them to disengage with out using a ki point.
5. Gain two weapon masteries that you can use with your unarmed attacks and allow martial weapons instead of just simple ones. (Including heavy and two handed weapons)
6. I really love the idea of the crusher feat from Tasha’s. (Push backs from bludgeon attacks) This should be a thing for the basic monk. I know that Open Fist does this, but that could be replaced with the grappling as dex based.
7. Deflect missiles should be deflect attack and you can do it in close range and counter strike.
8. Make unarmed attacks considered as light weapons for monks so that they can use masteries with them.
9. Sweeping attacks that hit multiple opponents at once. Cleave for unarmed attacks. (Look at Drunken Master)
10. I’d love to see a strictly grapple based monk to inspire the Sumo or Judo fantasy.
Take away DP points from Flurry of Blows, Step of the Wind, and Patient Defense and limit them to once a turn lien the rouge has for cunning action. It would make things so much easier. Take away KP points from Deflect Missile/attack and let it be used also once per turn. Both of these are really easy since you only get one BA and one reaction anyway. Just take the point cost away. Better yet, just take the point cost away entirely from everything. Stunning strike is already once a turn and it does something comparable to the rouge’s cunning strike, why can’t it be the same? The bigger subclass abilities like Elemental Monk’s abilities mostly act like spells, just have them function the same and give them a limit if you really want them to (Pro number of times per short rest)
Speaking of Cunning strike: The Rouge is now crazy simply because of this new feature and it doesn’t even use points. The monk could really use something like that to fulfill alot of fantasies. Like attacking multiple opponents at once, super uppercuts that do fall damage, pushbacks that do crash damage, disarms, and pretty much anything from a fighting game. You could even add fatalities from Mortal Kombat if you wanted to. My point is that Rouge gets really cool things, Paladins get really cool things, why can’t Monks?
I like this a lot, especially your idea to have it function like Cunning Strike. Take away X damage dice when using these abilities, sacrifice damage for utility, that’s a very good idea.
Take away DP points from Flurry of Blows, Step of the Wind, and Patient Defense and limit them to once a turn lien the rouge has for cunning action. It would make things so much easier. Take away KP points from Deflect Missile/attack and let it be used also once per turn. Both of these are really easy since you only get one BA and one reaction anyway. Just take the point cost away. Better yet, just take the point cost away entirely from everything. Stunning strike is already once a turn and it does something comparable to the rouge’s cunning strike, why can’t it be the same? The bigger subclass abilities like Elemental Monk’s abilities mostly act like spells, just have them function the same and give them a limit if you really want them to (Pro number of times per short rest)
I have added Undisciplined.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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Defense: Agree with d10 HD. For AC, all they really need is another ASI or two so they're not punished for pumping Dex and Wis early on. With a d10, once they hit 18/18/14 they're in a good spot defensively. Deflect Melee doesn't do enough to help their survivability, most melee enemies hit multiple times even at low levels.
Utility: Agree that monk grapple and shove should be based on Dex. However, spammable No-save Daze is too strong. I'm okay with the Stunning Strike nerf, all they need to do is make it only cost ki if it successfully lands. Paladins don't have to spend their slots on a chance to smite.
Offense: Yes to monks getting 1-2 weapon masteries with their fists (and Open Hand should get more.) Yes to monks getting +1/+2/+3 either natively or via special items (handwraps, amulet etc.) Regarding 10 minute flurry, that can be a high-level mode for when you have more things e.g. from your subclass to spend ki on.
Things I disagree with: Short Rests are fine at an hour. Monks are thematically fine caring about both Dex and Wis (see the ASI point above.)
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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My Monk rework is more simple, get the current and change:
- Primary stats: Str or Dex, and Wis.
- Level 1: add Fighting Style, allowing to get Defensive with unarmored defense that is nice if want to focus on unarmed attacks.
- Unarmored Defense: 10 + greater of Dex/Wis bonus + proficiency bonus of the level sum of all your classes with unarmored defense. Negative Dex subtract AC.
- Weapons: you get proficiency on one martial weapon you choose at level 1, then add another weapon at each ASI level of the monk class.
- Monk weapon: you can use your monk weapon features for any weapon you have proficiency.
- Evading "mode" at level ??: option to use your Reaction when you are hit to add +1? AC until the start of your next turn. You improve your defense at the cost of losing your opportunity attack and others. Just like a "bad" patient defense, but not spending Discipline points.
- Discipline points: 2 + monk level.
- Grant another fighting style to all Warriors at level 7-10. It would be the first for the Barbarian, and the 2nd for monk. Don't remember the Fighter.
Note: the unarmored defense would also apply to the other classes but for the corresponding ability score. I think is bad that if you want defense you can only increase your 2 stats Dex and the unarmored defense one with all the feats you get. In the case of Barbarian I see hard to increase the three Str, Dex and Con.
Notice that this way we can create so many monk variants, i.e.:
- Stealth: focus on Dex, we get AC and maximize thieving skills, more acrobatic.
- Warrior monk: this is, a Street Fighter character. Focus on Str and Wis to maximize your monk abilities, and get a more warrior subclass like warrior of the hand. We get the AC from Wis, also improving monk abilities. Leave Dex at 10 for not losing AC with negative value. With Str is more athletic and better at Grapple and other alternative attacks. Balance Str and Wis as you wish.
- Brute monk: for this we multi-class with Barbarian to get the option to use Con for unarmored defense, not losing any effective level to compute it. As multi-class it requires 13 Str and 13 Wis (now that Str is also a primary). Then focus on Str and Con (from we get the AC). You are less focused on monk skills but more brute. Balance Str and Con as you wish. Also this version is bidirectional, balancing Monk and Barbarian classes as you wish. A Berserker/Warrior of the Hand could be so fun to play :)
About equipment, we need to add the Gloves weapon, that really does nothing, only applies features to unarmed attacks. Then it is a magical item that can be found, crafted or purchased like any other, solving the problem IMO a fair way for the others about compensating the MA and the loot items. For those like me that for magical loot get the features and roll the item type randomly (but of the same type: weapon or armor), add it to the table of possibilities to be found.
- Unarmored Defense: 10 + greater of Dex/Wis bonus + proficiency bonus of the level sum of all your classes with unarmored defense. Negative Dex subtract AC.
I've added this to the list on Alternative AC.
- Weapons: you get proficiency on one martial weapon you choose at level 1, then add another weapon at each ASI level of the monk class.
- Monk weapon: you can use your monk weapon features for any weapon you have proficiency.
I've added Beyond Simple.
- Discipline points: 2 + monk level.
I've added Alternative Discipline, and put this on the list there (among other things).
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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A tier 3 ability for after Disciplined Survivor could be Avoidance, copied from the demilich. The feature is the same as Evasion, but for any save.
Avoidance. If the demilich is you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.
Regarding weapons, I believe it was a good idea to divorce martial arts from weapons. In 5e, as soon as you find literally any magic weapon usable by monk, you never fight with your fists again, because with the same damage die, a magic weapon also has the magic bonuses that fists cannot ever have.
In addition to that, I don't see anything wrong with letting monks use martial weapons, if unarmed fighting is balanced to compete with that. The way I see it implemented is something like this:
You use your dexterity modifier instead of strength when using weapons or fighting unarmed. No limitations.
If you make an unarmed melee attack and you have no weapons equipped, you can make an additional unarmed melee attack as a part of the same action. No bonus action required. This emulates having two light weapons with Two-Weapon Fighting Style and Nick mastery.
When you hit the creature with an unarmed melee attack, you can also push it 5ft. in any direction you choose, or, if your attack roll exceeds its AC by 5 or more, grapple it. If your attack roll exceeds target's AC by 10 or more and the target is Large or smaller, the creature is also restrained by you. Masteries for unarmed fighting.
empowered strikes at 6th level you can do Bludgeoning or Force damage and your unarmed strikes get a +1 to hit and damage. Scales to +2 at 11th and +3 at 17th.
proficiency In simple weapons. No two-handed restriction. And Simple weapons can use the martial arts die.
Regarding weapons, I believe it was a good idea to divorce martial arts from weapons. In 5e, as soon as you find literally any magic weapon usable by monk, you never fight with your fists again, because with the same damage die, a magic weapon also has the magic bonuses that fists cannot ever have.
In addition to that, I don't see anything wrong with letting monks use martial weapons, if unarmed fighting is balanced to compete with that. The way I see it implemented is something like this:
You use your dexterity modifier instead of strength when using weapons or fighting unarmed. No limitations.
If you make an unarmed melee attack and you have no weapons equipped, you can make an additional unarmed melee attack as a part of the same action. No bonus action required. This emulates having two light weapons with Two-Weapon Fighting Style and Nick mastery.
When you hit the creature with an unarmed melee attack, you can also push it 5ft. in any direction you choose, or, if your attack roll exceeds its AC by 5 or more, grapple it. If your attack roll exceeds target's AC by 10 or more and the target is Large or smaller, the creature is also restrained by you. Masteries for unarmed fighting.
Well, Monks don't tend to fight exclusively with their fists at most levels, so that seems like an odd issue. You've still got your bonus action strike and your flurry of blows, so you should be doing about the same amount of kicking and punching as any other Monk, even if you've got a weapon that does more damage. Anyways, I already addressed that with Mystical Wallop.
empowered strikes at 6th level you can do Bludgeoning or Force damage and your unarmed strikes get a +1 to hit and damage. Scales to +2 at 11th and +3 at 17th.
proficiency In simple weapons. No two-handed restriction. And Simple weapons can use the martial arts die.
Mystical Wallop includes the first one, and I'll update Beyond Simple to include the second.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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I figured it would be useful to put all the ideas that people have come up with to help the Monk in one place. Not for discussing if Monk needs help, mind you. I only have so many ideas myself, but the concept of the thread is that I'm not the only one pitching them. If you have an idea, if you've seen an idea on another thread/outside of the forums, or even if you just have a variation on an idea that's already listed, go ahead and make a post and I'll probably add it to the list. Remember, nothing is too out-( or in-)there, and just because you don't think an idea is good by itself doesn't mean it has no potential. Oh, and don't bother formatting any suggestions- I can do that stuff.
Ability Score Improvement Improvement
Credit: PsyrenXY
Addresses: Customizability, MADness
Give the Monk one or two extra Ability Score Improvements, so that they can get better scores in their main stats and have more room to customize with feats.
Alternative AC
Credit: Various
Addresses: Survivability, maybe MADness
Use a different method of calculating AC. Possibilities include:
Alternative Discipline
Credit: Various
Addresses: Resource Management
Use a different method of calculating total Discipline Points. Possibilities include:
Beyond Simple
Credit: Whoever made feats require martial weapon proficiency
Addresses: Customization, Damage
Give the Monk proficiency in either some or all martial weapons, and let them be used for MA. It allows more freedom in flavor, increases damage output, allows access to combat-centric feats, and gives more options in terms of masteries. I will not that it has the possibility of removing some uniqueness from the Monk.
Alternatively, remove the heavy and two-handed restrictions. As it stands, all they do is hedge out the greatclub, which is pretty pointless considering it's just as good as the quarterstaff.
d10 Hit Die
Credit: Literally everybody (except WotC designers)
Addresses: Survivability
It's in the name. Considering how melee-oriented the Monk is, it's peculiar how sub-par their hit die is. It's inferior to those of Paladin, Ranger, Fighter, and Barbarian. Most notable from that list are Paladin and Barbarian, both comparable to Monk in reliance on melee and possessing d10 and d12 hit dice, respectively.
Dazing Strike
Credit: ?
Addresses: Utility
If the target of Stunning Strike succeeds on the saving throw, then they are affected by the Dazed condition instead of Stunned. This makes Stunning Strike less of an all-in option.
Deflect Attack
Credit: Xzeption
Addresses: Survivability
As simple as it is effective. Make Deflect Missiles work against melee attacks as well as ranged attacks. It turns a relatively situational feature into a reliable way to improve how long the Monk can last in a combat. It also better represents the Monk trope of parrying swords, fists, and whatever else with just waves of your hand.
Fancy Fistwork
Credit: Whoever put Monk in the Warrior group
Addresses: Customization, Damage, Utility
Let Monks apply some, if not all, of the Weapon Masteries to their fists. Currently, the Monk is probably the worst out of all classes when it comes to using Weapon Mastery, which doesn't really make sense considering they're in the Warrior group.
Feature Movement
Credit: Various
Addresses: Everything
Move around the levels at which features are gained for Monks so that more iconic and effective features are gained earlier. Possibilities:
Fighting Style
Credit: Whoever put Monk in the Warrior group
Addresses: Customization, Damage
In the title. It's really a no-brainer. It gets them access to all the Fighting Style feats at ASIs, as well. To give them more options, maybe let Defense not need armor (which was always pretty stupid anyways) and add in a couple more styles that work well with the Monk's toolset.
Alternatively, add in a Monk-specific thing that builds on Fighting Styles, but also resembles the Divine Order of the Cleric. It could focus on different ideas of the Monk that people have, so that the fighting about what it's supposed to be can stop.
Grapplemonk
Credit: Xzeption
Addresses: Utility
Let the DC for Grapple and Shove scale off of Dexterity (or even Wisdom) for Monks. This could let them do something useful in combat besides their current go-tos, running and punching. It also just makes sense; why should the most unarmed-oriented character there is not be able to use 2/3 of the options for Unarmed Strikes? Maybe even let shoves shove further and grapples do something extra (or just have a higher chance of working) for the Monk.
Martial Arts Masteries
Credit: johnkzin
Addresses: Customization
An invocation-like system that lets different Monks focus on different aspects of martial arts. Very cool stuff!
Martial Stance
Credit: Ain_Undos
Addresses: Resource Management
Let Flurry of Blows, Patience Defense, and Step of the Wind let you use their respective bonus actions for either a minute or 10 minutes without further use of discipline points.
Alternatively, add all-new abilities for stances instead of just adapting the current discipline-based abilities. An example of how this could be done can be seen here.
Mind over Body
Credit: Quar1on
Addresses: MADness, Survivability
Basically, remove the Monk's reliance on Constitution. Every level you take in Monk increases your Max HP by a roll of your hit die/average plus your Wisdom modifier, instead of Constitution. It improves HP, cuts down on MADness, and it makes Monk stand out in a very unique way. It also lets players go with the classic Monk trope of "frail old guy that can beat your ass," as well as playing into the more general Monk flavor of reaching spiritual perfection to reach physical perfection.
Mystical Wallop
Credit: ?
Addresses: Damage
In order to keep up with magic weapons, either add some more items that improve unarmed strikes or give +1, +2, and +3 bonuses to unarmed strikes to Monks at certain levels.
Pop Pop
Credit: Whoever made the first revision of the light property
Addresses: Damage, Utility
Let the extra unarmed strike that the Monk gets be a part of the same action as the attack that allows it to be used, instead of the current bonus action. This lets it stay more in line with the current Nick mastery, instead of the old two-weapon fighting that it seems to have been based on. This extra attack could come with or without Dexterity added to the damage. Presumably this change would also come with a modification to Flurry of Blows.
Pure Martial
Credit: Various
Addresses: MADness
Completely take Wisdom out of the Monk, scaling DCs off of Dexterity and providing a new way to calculate AC (see Alternative AC).
Shorter Rest
Credit: 4e?
Addresses: Resource Management
Make short rests take 10 minutes instead of an hour, across all classes. This already has a precedent with the old catnap as well as the playtest version of prayer of healing, which took 10 minutes to cast and granted the effects of a short rest. These both show that it's not exactly breaking anything to get a 10 minute short rest. A change like this would effectively make discipline a per-encounter resource, and allow Monks to not have to rely so heavily on the willingness of more long rest-reliant party members.
Stronk
Credit: DarkSch666
Addresses: Customization
Remove the complete reliance on Dexterity, allowing Strength to be integrated with the class more and providing a new way to calculate AC (see Alternative AC). This could allow much more customization and variety within the class, and would allow it to fill more of a Street Fighter-esque fantasy. It should be noted that it's possible for a similar Strength-based pugilist role to be filled by a Fighter or Barbarian subclass or fighting style.
Undisciplined
Credit: cergonian123
Addresses: Resource Management
Completely remove Discipline Points from the Monk, and let features be limited by action economy and per-round use limitations instead. With some rebalancing of features, it could take a lot of the load off of the Monk.
Think something's missing? You're probably right! Fix that!
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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Here are the main ideas I've seen floating around. Not all of them I agree with.
[survivability] Recomputing Unarmored Defense.
[survivability] Change Deflect Missiles to Deflect Attack. I'm leaning towards reducing damage by Monk Level + Martial Arts die roll. Possibilities are at https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/unearthed-arcana/174979-changing-monks-deflect-missile-to-deflect-attack
[Updating Monk to UA changes] Using DEX and/or WIS for the Unarmed Strike Grapple/Shove DC.
[Updating Monk to UA changes] Adding Weapon Masteries to Unarmed Strikes. For streamlining rules (current UA allows for attacking 3 times at level 1), I would prefer the Nick mastery instead of the Bonus Action Unarmed Strike.
[customization] Adding a Fighting Style.
[Resource management] Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind lasting 1 or 10 minutes (aka a whole combat). With changing Discipline Points to Long Rest instead of Short Rest.
Stunning Strike causing the Dazed condition when the target succeeds the saving throw.
[Offense] Providing a +1, +2, and +3 bonus to attack rolls for Unarmed Strikes at appropriate levels to match magic weapons.
[survivability] Moving Diamond Soul/Disciplined Survivor from 14th Level to either level 9 or 10 (or split between the two).
[Resource management] Making Warrior of the Elements a 1/3 caster.
Unique Playstyle
Justification:
The main problem with the Monk is that it is constantly compared to other classes because of the perception that it doesn't have a unique playstyle, but rather is just a melee fighter that uses unarmed strikes rather than a weapon. As a result it will always be viewed as subpar because other classes are designed to be that much more so than the monk - e.g. Paladin and Barbarian are always going to be more tanky and deal more damage than the monk. Thus the only way to justify the Monk continuing to exist is to lead into it's unique playstyle as a martial-controller rather than a fighter-type.
Design:
Deflect Attacks
expand Deflect Missiles to apply to all attacks and remove the DP cost to make the return attack which is either a melee attack or ranged attack against the attacker.
Unarmoured Movement
Move running up walls and across water to level 7, and make all their movement not provoke attacks of opportunity unless they choose to provoke at level 9
Martial Arts
add the ability to use Dex for Grapple / Shove
Flurry of Blows
add the ability that if replacing the extra attack with a Grapple / Shove the Grapple save is at DisAdv and the Shove distance increases to 20 ft. Allow FoB to be used even if your Action was used for something other than Attack
Patient Defense
add the option to use it as a reaction to getting attacked rather than as a Bonus Action
Step of the Wind
Remove DP cost and include both Dash & Disengage
Unarmed Mastery
Choose any weapon mastery that doesn't have prerequisites and apply it to your unarmed strikes
Martial Strikes (Replaces Stunning Strike)
When you hit a creature with a weapon attack or unarmed strike you can spend 1 DP to cause one of the effects below:
Face-Strike : Deal extra damage equal to one roll of your MA die and the target must make a Con save vs your DP DC or be blinded until the start of your next turn.
Upper Cut: Use a Bonus action to fling them vertically 10 ft upwards. If they fall they take 1d6 falling damage and land prone
Mystic Strike: The target must make a Wis save vs your DP DC or be Incapacitated until the start of your next turn. On a successful save, they are immune to your Mystic strike until the start of your next turn.
Staggering Strike: The target must make a Dex save vs your DP DC or be Dazed until the start of your next turn.
Subclass specific Martial Strikes:
Open Hand: (level 6) Repelling Strike: The target is pushed 20 ft away from you, if the creature collides with a solid object or another creature both the target and what it collided with take force damage equal to one roll of your martial arts die.
Open Hand (level 11): Quivering Strike: The target is marked by tiny vibrations, at any point in the next 10 minutes you can use your reaction to cause them to take psychic damage equal to two rolls of your martial arts die and be Stunned until the end of the current turn.
Shadow (level 6): Back Stab: You can teleport to a location within 5 ft of the target and immediately make one weapon attack or unarmed strike with your bonus action. This additional attack is made at advantage and deals additional necrotic damage equal to two rolls of your martial arts die on a hit.
Shadow (level 11): Throat Cut: If your target is Prone or Incapacitated, they take additional damage equal to four rolls of your martial arts die.
Elemental (level 6): Ensnare: the target must succeed on a Str save vs your DP DC or be restrained until the start of your next turn.
Elemental (level 11): Elemental Burst: targets of your choice within 20 ft of the target take elemental damage (choose: acid, fire, cold, lightning, thunder) equal to two rolls of your martial arts die.
Copypasted my post from another thread:
My main point: why should monk depend on Wis at all? If a class has two ability scores it depends on, it should present a choice what aspect to lean into while being effective, rather than an obligation to take both, sacrificing feats just to function on a basic level. Paladin can choose whether they want more holy or more warrior in their holy warrior class, they've got enough riding on Cha to justify lower Str. But monks need both Dex and Wis. Badly.
Some would say, but what about their spiritual side? Well, it's in the class features. Barbarian has a primal connection, a feral side... Why doesn't it depend on Wis? Imagine if rage uses and rage damage bonus were dictated by Wis. That would be ridiculous. But that's the monk reality. The only warrior and only non-magical class to be MAD.
My idea/suggestion, starting with (based upon) the Play Test 6 document version of the Monk (Martial Art Masteries make the class a lot more complex, so I would probably move the class to the same expansion book that will include the Artificer):
When you spend 1 or more Discipline Points during your turn, you may make one attack with an unarmed strike, as a Bonus Action before the end of your turn.
When your unarmed strikes deal damage to a creature, they are magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance to Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing damage. Further you may choose to have each strike deal its normal damage type(s), or Force damage, or the type of damage indicated by your Monastic Discipline.
Martial Arts Masteries:
(Note: Any Martial Art Mastery that requires Unarmored Defense, or one of the features that directly or indirectly requires Unarmored Defense, has the same requirement that the user cannot be wearing any form of armor nor wielding a shield when using or benefitting from that Martial Art Mastery.)
Most of these are based on things that were previously Monk class features, as well as some from Weapon Masteries, the Rogue's Cunning Attack, optional Monk class Features from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, and the 1e Oriental Adventures book.
Requirements: None for d6, 5th level for d8, 11th level for d10, and 17th level for d12. Each die improvement requires the previous die type.
Benefit: Your unarmed Strikes do 1d6 damage plus the ability modifier that you use for Martial Arts.
Can Be Taken more than Once (four times total). Each successive time increases the die from d6 to d8, then d8 to d10, and last d10 to d12.
Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6)
Benefit: (same as the Monk class feature of the same name)
Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6)
Benefit: (Same as the Monk class sub-feature of the same name)
Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6), Discipline Points
Benefit: the same as the Monk ability of the same name.
Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6), Discipline Points
Benefit: the same as the Monk ability of the same name.
Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6), Discipline Points
Benefit: the same as the Monk ability of the same name.
Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6), Discipline Points, 6th Level
Benefit: Once per turn, when hit a creature with an unarmed strike attack roll, you can spend 2 Discipline Points and add an extra roll of your martial arts die to the damage. The damage type can be any of the types your unarmed strikes are capable of inflicting, but does not otherwise need to be the same type of damage as the strike that invoked this feature.
Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6), Discipline Points
Benefit: the same as the Rogue Cunning Attack ability of the same name.
Costs 1 Discipline Point
Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6), Discipline Points
Benefit: the same as the Rogue Cunning Attack ability of the same name.
Costs 1 Discipline Point
Requirements: Unarmored Defense, 2nd level for +10, 6th level for +15, 10th level for +20, 14th level for +25, 18th level for +30, each improvement requires the previous improvement.
Benefit: (same as the Monk class feature of the same name)
Can Be Taken more than Once (five times total). Each successive time increases the movement bonus.
Requirements: Unarmored Defense
Benefit: As with the non-Discipline Point part (first paragraph) of the Monk Feature "Deflect Missiles", but can be used against melee attacks, ranged attacks, and unarmed strikes.
Requirements: Deflect Attacks, Discipline Points
Benefit: As with the Discipline Point part (second paragraph) of the Monk Feature "Deflect Missiles", but can be used against melee attacks, ranged attacks, and unarmed strikes.
Requirements: Unarmored Movement, 4th Level
Benefit: (same as the Monk class feature of the same name)
Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d8), Discipline Points
Benefit: (same as the Monk class feature of the same name)
Requirements: 7th Level
Benefit: Same as the Monk feature of the same name.
Requirements: 7th Level
Benefit: Same as the Monk feature of the same name.
Requirements: Slow Fall
Benefit: Same as the Monk feature of the same name.
Requirements: 10th Level
Benefit: Same as the Monk feature of the same name.
Requirements: Redirect Attacks
Benefit: You can use Deflect Attacks and Redirect Attacks against any damage types.
Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d8)
Benefit: Every round in which you have a creature Grappled, one of the creatures Grappled by you must make a CON stave against becoming unconscious.
Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d8)
Benefit: When you have a creature Grappled by you, they can't make attacks against any target other than you, and they have disadvantage on attack rolls against you.
Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6)
Benefit: At the start of your turn you may roll one martial arts die to deal that much damage to one creature Grappled by you.
Requirements: Unarmored Movement +10
Benefit: When you are Grappled, you can also set speed of the opponent(s) that has you grappled to 0 even if they aren't grappled.
Requirements: 2nd Level
Benefit: When an opponent applies the Grappled condition to you, you may use your Reaction to grapple them. If you succeed, they are Grappled and you are not.
Requirements: None
Benefit: If you are prone, but not Grappled, Incapacitated, Restrained, nor Unconscious, you can stand up from prone by spending 5 feet of movement.
Requirements: None
Benefit: You have Blind Sight with a range of 10 feet, within that range you can effectively see anything that isn't behind total cover, even if you're blinded or in total darkness. You can also see Invisible creatures within that range, unless the creature successfully hides from you.
Requirements: Slow Fall
Benefit: You are not at disadvantage due to being Prone, nor do creatures get Advantage to attack rolls made against you.
Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d8)
Benefit: If you hit a creature with an unarmed strike, you can make an attack roll against a second creature within 5 feet of the original target, that is also within your unarmed strike reach. If that attack roll hits, the second creature takes the same damage as the original attack, but without your ability modifier to that damage (unless that modifier is negative). You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
Benefit: As with the Weapon Mastery, but you can only apply it to Unarmed Strikes
Benefit: As with the Weapon Mastery, but you can only apply it to Unarmed Strikes
Benefit: As with the Weapon Mastery, but you can only apply it to Unarmed Strikes
Benefit: As with the Weapon Mastery, but you can only apply it to Unarmed Strikes
Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d8), Discipline Points
Benefit: When you miss with an attack roll, you can spend 1 to 3 Discipline Points to increase your attack roll by twice the mount of Discipline Points, potentially turning the miss into a hit.
Requirements: Stunning Strike, Discipline Points
Benefit: Like Stunning Strike, except that it costs 2 Discipline Points, and imposes the Paralyzed condition for a number of turns equal to half of one roll of your martial arts die.
Requirements: Unarmored Defense
Benefit: when you are utilizing Unarmored Defense, you gain a +2 bonus to your AC.
Requirements: Slow Fall, Discipline Points
Benefit: You can spend 3 Discipline Points to cast Levitate on yourself.
Requirements: Redirect Attacks, Discipline Points
Benefit: Instead of redirecting the damage to another creature, you can cause the weapon to take the damage.
Feat: Martial Arts Initiate
Requirements: None
Benefit: Your unarmed strikes deal damage equal to 1d4 + your Strength modifier. Further, you may select two Martial Arts Mastery features, for which you otherwise have all of the requirements. If an ability allows a saving throw, use your Strength Modified in the calculation of that saving throw DC. (note: if you have this feat available, the Fighting Style feat for Unarmed Fighting should not be brought forward from 5e)
Feat: Disciplined Warrior
Requirements: Martial Arts Die (d6).
Benefit: You have 2 Discipline Points (or two more if you already have Discipline Points). You regain these spent Discipline Points, if you have spent any of them, when you complete a Short Rest or Long Rest. You may also select one Martial Arts Mastery for which you have all of the requirements, and that costs Discipline Points. If an ability allows a saving throw, use your Strength Modified in the calculation of that saving throw DC.
Added two more Martial Arts Masteries:
Requirements: Step of the Wind, Discipline Points
Benefit: You can spend 2 Discipline Points to cast Jump on yourself, without any components.
Requirements: 7th Level, Discipline Points
Benefit: you can spend 5 Discipline Points to cast Freedom of Movement on yourself, without any components.
Alright, I spent some time updating the list. Tell me if I missed something or if you have more ideas.
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This is really really good stuff. Thanks for creating the thread.
1. The monk is already set up for 1 minute short rests at level 7. I think it should start at the beginning since ki also starts at the beginning.
2. D10 hit die, absolutely.
3. I really like the idea of wisdom being your health instead of con. That is a phenomenal idea! Takes away the problem of having to specialize in too many skills.
4. Dex for grapples and shoves, really good. This would be so simple and great because the monk would be able to replace one of their attacks with a shove to allow them to disengage with out using a ki point.
5. Gain two weapon masteries that you can use with your unarmed attacks and allow martial weapons instead of just simple ones. (Including heavy and two handed weapons)
6. I really love the idea of the crusher feat from Tasha’s. (Push backs from bludgeon attacks) This should be a thing for the basic monk. I know that Open Fist does this, but that could be replaced with the grappling as dex based.
7. Deflect missiles should be deflect attack and you can do it in close range and counter strike.
8. Make unarmed attacks considered as light weapons for monks so that they can use masteries with them.
9. Sweeping attacks that hit multiple opponents at once. Cleave for unarmed attacks. (Look at Drunken Master)
10. I’d love to see a strictly grapple based monk to inspire the Sumo or Judo fantasy.
Take away DP points from Flurry of Blows, Step of the Wind, and Patient Defense and limit them to once a turn lien the rouge has for cunning action. It would make things so much easier. Take away KP points from Deflect Missile/attack and let it be used also once per turn.
Both of these are really easy since you only get one BA and one reaction anyway. Just take the point cost away. Better yet, just take the point cost away entirely from everything. Stunning strike is already once a turn and it does something comparable to the rouge’s cunning strike, why can’t it be the same? The bigger subclass abilities like Elemental Monk’s abilities mostly act like spells, just have them function the same and give them a limit if you really want them to (Pro number of times per short rest)
Speaking of Cunning strike: The Rouge is now crazy simply because of this new feature and it doesn’t even use points. The monk could really use something like that to fulfill alot of fantasies. Like attacking multiple opponents at once, super uppercuts that do fall damage, pushbacks that do crash damage, disarms, and pretty much anything from a fighting game. You could even add fatalities from Mortal Kombat if you wanted to. My point is that Rouge gets really cool things, Paladins get really cool things, why can’t Monks?
I like this a lot, especially your idea to have it function like Cunning Strike. Take away X damage dice when using these abilities, sacrifice damage for utility, that’s a very good idea.
Thanks, I'm glad you find it useful!
I've added that to Feature Movement.
I have added Undisciplined.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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My response to the OP:
Defense: Agree with d10 HD. For AC, all they really need is another ASI or two so they're not punished for pumping Dex and Wis early on. With a d10, once they hit 18/18/14 they're in a good spot defensively. Deflect Melee doesn't do enough to help their survivability, most melee enemies hit multiple times even at low levels.
Utility: Agree that monk grapple and shove should be based on Dex. However, spammable No-save Daze is too strong. I'm okay with the Stunning Strike nerf, all they need to do is make it only cost ki if it successfully lands. Paladins don't have to spend their slots on a chance to smite.
Offense: Yes to monks getting 1-2 weapon masteries with their fists (and Open Hand should get more.) Yes to monks getting +1/+2/+3 either natively or via special items (handwraps, amulet etc.) Regarding 10 minute flurry, that can be a high-level mode for when you have more things e.g. from your subclass to spend ki on.
Things I disagree with: Short Rests are fine at an hour. Monks are thematically fine caring about both Dex and Wis (see the ASI point above.)
I've added Ability Score Improvement Improvement.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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My Monk rework is more simple, get the current and change:
- Primary stats: Str or Dex, and Wis.
- Level 1: add Fighting Style, allowing to get Defensive with unarmored defense that is nice if want to focus on unarmed attacks.
- Unarmored Defense: 10 + greater of Dex/Wis bonus + proficiency bonus of the level sum of all your classes with unarmored defense. Negative Dex subtract AC.
- Weapons: you get proficiency on one martial weapon you choose at level 1, then add another weapon at each ASI level of the monk class.
- Monk weapon: you can use your monk weapon features for any weapon you have proficiency.
- Evading "mode" at level ??: option to use your Reaction when you are hit to add +1? AC until the start of your next turn. You improve your defense at the cost of losing your opportunity attack and others. Just like a "bad" patient defense, but not spending Discipline points.
- Discipline points: 2 + monk level.
- Grant another fighting style to all Warriors at level 7-10. It would be the first for the Barbarian, and the 2nd for monk. Don't remember the Fighter.
Note: the unarmored defense would also apply to the other classes but for the corresponding ability score. I think is bad that if you want defense you can only increase your 2 stats Dex and the unarmored defense one with all the feats you get. In the case of Barbarian I see hard to increase the three Str, Dex and Con.
Notice that this way we can create so many monk variants, i.e.:
- Stealth: focus on Dex, we get AC and maximize thieving skills, more acrobatic.
- Warrior monk: this is, a Street Fighter character. Focus on Str and Wis to maximize your monk abilities, and get a more warrior subclass like warrior of the hand. We get the AC from Wis, also improving monk abilities. Leave Dex at 10 for not losing AC with negative value. With Str is more athletic and better at Grapple and other alternative attacks. Balance Str and Wis as you wish.
- Brute monk: for this we multi-class with Barbarian to get the option to use Con for unarmored defense, not losing any effective level to compute it. As multi-class it requires 13 Str and 13 Wis (now that Str is also a primary). Then focus on Str and Con (from we get the AC). You are less focused on monk skills but more brute. Balance Str and Con as you wish. Also this version is bidirectional, balancing Monk and Barbarian classes as you wish. A Berserker/Warrior of the Hand could be so fun to play :)
About equipment, we need to add the Gloves weapon, that really does nothing, only applies features to unarmed attacks. Then it is a magical item that can be found, crafted or purchased like any other, solving the problem IMO a fair way for the others about compensating the MA and the loot items. For those like me that for magical loot get the features and roll the item type randomly (but of the same type: weapon or armor), add it to the table of possibilities to be found.
I've added Stronk.
I've added this to the list on Alternative AC.
I've added Beyond Simple.
I've added Alternative Discipline, and put this on the list there (among other things).
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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A tier 3 ability for after Disciplined Survivor could be Avoidance, copied from the demilich. The feature is the same as Evasion, but for any save.
Avoidance. If
the demilich isyou are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.Step of the wind: you can dash or disengage for free. Or you can spend 1 DP to do both (as UA)
Flurry of blows. When you use your BA martial arts unarmed strike you can use your reaction to make one additional unarmed strike (no DP cost)
AC calculation scaling calculation 13+Dex at level 1, 14+Dex 5th, 15+Dex 11th, 16+Dex 17th
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Regarding weapons, I believe it was a good idea to divorce martial arts from weapons. In 5e, as soon as you find literally any magic weapon usable by monk, you never fight with your fists again, because with the same damage die, a magic weapon also has the magic bonuses that fists cannot ever have.
In addition to that, I don't see anything wrong with letting monks use martial weapons, if unarmed fighting is balanced to compete with that. The way I see it implemented is something like this:
I forgot to mention
empowered strikes at 6th level you can do Bludgeoning or Force damage and your unarmed strikes get a +1 to hit and damage. Scales to +2 at 11th and +3 at 17th.
proficiency In simple weapons. No two-handed restriction. And Simple weapons can use the martial arts die.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Well, Monks don't tend to fight exclusively with their fists at most levels, so that seems like an odd issue. You've still got your bonus action strike and your flurry of blows, so you should be doing about the same amount of kicking and punching as any other Monk, even if you've got a weapon that does more damage. Anyways, I already addressed that with Mystical Wallop.
Mystical Wallop includes the first one, and I'll update Beyond Simple to include the second.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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