Honestly, I think if bracers of defense or some other magic item for monk defense could be used by monks without using a attunement It might be less of an issue.
I also think there are other ways besides AC to add to defense in the mid game, and finally, I think the biggest issue is Patient defense not doing well with the monk. I feel like if patient defense didn't use your bonus action the AC issue would be much less in general.
Instead of 10+Dex+Wis, what if Monk AC was 8+PB+Dex+Wis?
It would start out the same (16 at level 1) but slowly pass the 2014 monk until you ended up with 24 AC at max level, 25 with one stat hitting 22.
Notice that the monk then has no rights to get feats. That is one of the issues as it should be more oriented to getting half-feats like others and be enough, adding some value to its skills and variety for interest of playing it.
I like keeping PD as your Bonus Action, for the idea that you use your BA to pick your basic mode for that turn: fight vs flight vs defend.
But, you could have a way to spend a DP to increase your AC as a Reaction. It could be somewhere in between Defensive Dueler and Shield spell: it has the benefit of Defensive Dueler (PB bonus to AC), but lasts until your next turn like Shield. Or, vs 1 attacker for no DP cost, against all attackers for 1 DP cost.
Honestly, I think if bracers of defense or some other magic item for monk defense could be used by monks without using a attunement It might be less of an issue.
Monk defense should be decent without specific magic items though. Magic items are there so you can punch above your weight class, which is why PCs stop at 20 but monsters keep scaling up to 30. If your game is guaranteed to get very specific magic items, that's great, but that shouldn't be an expectation.
I also think there are other ways besides AC to add to defense in the mid game, and finally, I think the biggest issue is Patient defense not doing well with the monk. I feel like if patient defense didn't use your bonus action the AC issue would be much less in general.
Patient Defense's action economy is one of the key problems with it, I agree.
Instead of 10+Dex+Wis, what if Monk AC was 8+PB+Dex+Wis?
It would start out the same (16 at level 1) but slowly pass the 2014 monk until you ended up with 24 AC at max level, 25 with one stat hitting 22.
Notice that the monk then has no rights to get feats. That is one of the issues as it should be more oriented to getting half-feats like others and be enough, adding some value to its skills and variety for interest of playing it.
Some form of passive AC scaling would improve their ability to pick up feats though. It would mean you're not beelining for 20 Dex 20 Wis just to stay alive. AC scaling with PB (or some other progressive means) would help with that.
Yes I am agree with that, some kind of level scalling AC. What I like less is it to depend on 2 scores. The monk has disadvantage with any other martial (and non-martial like Rogue) class as dual score class, and cuts its options. And currently is tri-score, as requires Str to be fully unarmed proficient to be able to apply shove, crucial for Martial Arts tactics. Having only, at the same time, the base feats (while others like Rogue get one extra, really not needing it).
At the end if we think all the monk characters using the same subclass ends being made exactly the same, because the lack of options for creation.
I agree that monk defense should be decent without magic items. This is why I mentioned the Patient defense issue.
At level 1 their AC of 16 is decent compared to other classes. The best someone can do at this level is 18 with medium or heavy armor and a shield. By level 4 this bumps to 17 and the best those others are doing is 19 IF they spent money otherwise they are still sitting at 18, and if they can spend money to up their AC why can't the monk? The monk maxes out at 20 just like everyone else without using magic items. The issue is magic items and other things are easier to achieve for other classes than the monk. Making those other things easier for the monk as well helps. The MAD issue is linked to more than AC. Since their save DC's are wisdom based as well this means stunning strike and their subclass features all key off wisdom as well.
Combine these factors with a patient defense that actually works and your effective AC is huge. Even if you only ever got your AC to 18 and could patient defense most of the time, your effective AC would be 22. Without magic items.
if defense is lacking, why not double monk hp? oh, right because there's already a class that doubles their hp in a battle rage. well, then how about more dodging? oh, there's already a class (or two!) that's uncannily good at that? okay, then why is it fine to stack AC like a heavy armor fighter/paladin? or a shield-spelling bladesinger? it just feels so uninspired to fall back to nudging AC just a little higher, just a little higher like it's a privacy fence covering the neighbor's unruly tomato plants.
and why should we raise AC to facilitate the monk tanking attacks on the front line? what happened to monk being 'mobile' and 'a skirmisher' or whatever? why not some mobility? why not shuffling away from enemies that end their movement beside the monk? why not use grappled foes as 3/4 cover? why not move up to share the same square as a foe to force them to use weaker unarmed attacks and any other foe attacking that square must attack both or neither?
...anything but more AC number discussions.
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I’m just gonna say, honestly the issue of magic items seems overblown unless I’ve just been at tables with extremely stingy DMs. I see people talking in terms of AC with +3 armor and shields; those are Legendary rarity. If those are being handed out to every party member who can use them on top of other magic items, then honestly I’d say the issue is more a matter of the DM unbalancing the system. The Bracers are an uncommon item that gives +2 AC; basic +1 armor is rare. Making the bracers non-attunement sounds good when you’re looking only at martials, but they’d be a bit broken since they’d become standard carry on all wizards and sorcerers. Ultimately monks are a little on the glass cannon side, but they also have a wide range of mitigation or retreat options that can account for a few points of AC at the baselines actually intended by the system. They only notably fall off when the DM hands out high grade magic items like Halloween candy.
Edit: Had a brain fart, the Bracers are rare, but the point stands that they’re giving a better AC boost for their tier than the basic armor does.
I’m just gonna say, honestly the issue of magic items seems overblown unless I’ve just been at tables with extremely stingy DMs. I see people talking in terms of AC with +3 armor and shields; those are Legendary rarity. If those are being handed out to every party member who can use them on top of other magic items, then honestly I’d say the issue is more a matter of the DM unbalancing the system. The Bracers are an uncommon item that gives +2 AC; basic +1 armor is rare. Making the bracers non-attunement sounds good when you’re looking only at martials, but they’d be a bit broken since they’d become standard carry on all wizards and sorcerers. Ultimately monks are a little on the glass cannon side, but they also have a wide range of mitigation or retreat options that can account for a few points of AC at the baselines actually intended by the system. They only notably fall off when the DM hands out high grade magic items like Halloween candy.
Edit: Had a brain fart, the Bracers are rare, but the point stands that they’re giving a better AC boost for their tier than the basic armor does.
All that has been discussed here and probably in the other monk threads. The main problem is having 2 scores, as monk has many DC checks using Wis, plus the unarmored defense, in addition to the lack of feats and access to combat feats. And looking at the latest video, I think many people has given up the option of changes so now the options are limited to superficial changes, like changing the AC computation for unarmored defense, instead deeper ones, which has near to zero chance to be applied.
I’m just gonna say, honestly the issue of magic items seems overblown unless I’ve just been at tables with extremely stingy DMs.
The issue is more about the items available in the game by default; a good DM will hand out magic items with a view to balancing player characters, but the problem with Monk specifically is that there isn't a good selection of stock magic items, so DM's have to do more of the work themselves.
For example, if your Monk player uses a weapon then great, give them a magic weapon same as everyone else, and they'll benefit same as everyone else. But what about the unarmed strikes that also contribute to their damage output, or a Monk who only uses unarmed strikes? There are some items that can bolster these, but they all require attunement, which means losing attunement slots compared to other classes, they also aren't found in the Player's Handbook or Dungeon Master's Guide. Meanwhile armour-wearers can get a +2 armour without attunement, but a Monk's equivalent is bracers of defense, so that's another attunement slot gone. So while other martial classes can boost their base attacks and defence without attunement, leaving slots free for extras like amulets, rings etc., a Monk loses two of theirs to just keeping up, unless their DM creates custom items for them.
This could, and should, be fixed by improving the magic item selection. The Baldur's Gate 3 video game is a perfect showcase of this, because it's clear Larian has put a lot more thought into it than Wizards of the Coast ever did; I've found barbarian, caster and monk oriented clothes/robes fairly regularly. While I haven't found any that specifically boost AC they always give other good benefits that interact with the class instead, like the Armour of Uninhibited Kushigo which lets you make a reaction attack if someone misses you while Patient Defense is active. There are also corresponding gloves that give extra damage when you throw (which can apply twice if you build your monk for throwing enemies around) and so-on. Of course, the Monk on the whole is really good in Baldur's Gate 3, and the game ignores a lot of restrictions in D&D (like you can bonus action attack without doing a regular attack action, and there's no attunement), but it really highlights how neglected the class is in actual D&D.
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like you can bonus action attack without doing a regular attack action
Wow, that could solve many things. Could use your Action for Disengage, Dash, Dodge, Use item and your Bonus Action for your specific MA attack or attacks in the case of using FoB. I think this is what many people though but in the opposite way, allow to use the Bonus Action for a single thing and multiple when using DP.
Notice that your sacrifice your multi-attack, so doesn't look bad in the term of balance.
if the monk had the same damage but it was all part of the attack action, then patient defense becomes very useable and i think the monks AC and damage are not so bad. but FOB competing for the bonus action is a terrible mechanic that needs to be fixed.
No, it's balanced. The point is you choose between additional attacks or going on the defense. Making either a part of the attack action would overtune the class's action economy.
No, it's balanced. The point is you choose between additional attacks or going on the defense. Making either a part of the attack action would overtune the class's action economy.
So how do you explain the rogue then? They do not sacrifice any damage by using by using bonus action dash or disengage. Why does the monk have to cut their damage in half by doing the same thing? High end rogue can do about 45 (10d6+1d8+5) with the attack action but the monk can only do about 21 damage (2d10+10 assuming 20 dex) with their attack action. Thats pretty brutal in comparison. I've heard jeremy crawford say that whole "choosing between offense and defense" thing for the monk. It does not make any sense when there is clear precedent that shows otherwise. If you bring the monks current 4 attacks to the attack action that puts their high end damage with the attack action at about 42 (4d10+20) which is almost the same as the rogue.
I dont think its overtuning the monk, its just bringing the monk up to the same standard of design mechanics that another highly mobile class already has.
No, it's balanced. The point is you choose between additional attacks or going on the defense. Making either a part of the attack action would overtune the class's action economy.
So how do you explain the rogue then? They do not sacrifice any damage by using by using bonus action dash or disengage. Why does the monk have to cut their damage in half by doing the same thing? High end rogue can do about 45 (10d6+1d8+5) with the attack action but the monk can only do about 21 damage (2d10+10 assuming 20 dex) with their attack action. Thats pretty brutal in comparison. I've heard jeremy crawford say that whole "choosing between offense and defense" thing for the monk. It does not make any sense when there is clear precedent that shows otherwise. If you bring the monks current 4 attacks to the attack action that puts their high end damage with the attack action at about 42 (4d10+20) which is almost the same as the rogue.
I dont think its overtuning the monk, its just bringing the monk up to the same standard of design mechanics that another highly mobile class already has.
They objectively do sacrifice, because it still takes a bonus action and if you're a melee rogue there's almost no reason not to be dual wielding light weapons. Plus Disengage and Dash are less valuable than dodge; most enemies can catch up to you on your turn if you only Disengage, if you Dash they get the AoO, and if you do both you've just used your Action as well. Also, keep in mind that a Rogue's damage is a lot more swingy than a Monk's; they as a class get one or two attacks, period. Much easier to blow the roll and do nothing. Also, level 20 output is a poor metric, because almost no game hits that tier. Monks need a tune up, I'm not disputing that, but free Dodges are not a good solution, both because it would objectively overtune their action economy and it would quite possibly make FoB a fairly unused feature.
No, it's balanced. The point is you choose between additional attacks or going on the defense. Making either a part of the attack action would overtune the class's action economy.
Sort of. The problem right now is that using Patient Defense cuts the Monk's offense in half. But it gives benefits similar to casting the Blur spell which (assuming a 4 round combat) only cuts your damage by 1/4. What they should do is move the basic 1 BA unarmed strike from Martial Arts into the your Attack action and turn Flurry of Blows into 1 extra attack as a bonus action.
No, it's balanced. The point is you choose between additional attacks or going on the defense. Making either a part of the attack action would overtune the class's action economy.
So how do you explain the rogue then? They do not sacrifice any damage by using by using bonus action dash or disengage. Why does the monk have to cut their damage in half by doing the same thing? High end rogue can do about 45 (10d6+1d8+5) with the attack action but the monk can only do about 21 damage (2d10+10 assuming 20 dex) with their attack action. Thats pretty brutal in comparison. I've heard jeremy crawford say that whole "choosing between offense and defense" thing for the monk. It does not make any sense when there is clear precedent that shows otherwise. If you bring the monks current 4 attacks to the attack action that puts their high end damage with the attack action at about 42 (4d10+20) which is almost the same as the rogue.
I dont think its overtuning the monk, its just bringing the monk up to the same standard of design mechanics that another highly mobile class already has.
They objectively do sacrifice, because it still takes a bonus action and if you're a melee rogue there's almost no reason not to be dual wielding light weapons. Plus Disengage and Dash are less valuable than dodge; most enemies can catch up to you on your turn if you only Disengage, if you Dash they get the AoO, and if you do both you've just used your Action as well. Also, keep in mind that a Rogue's damage is a lot more swingy than a Monk's; they as a class get one or two attacks, period. Much easier to blow the roll and do nothing. Also, level 20 output is a poor metric, because almost no game hits that tier. Monks need a tune up, I'm not disputing that, but free Dodges are not a good solution, both because it would objectively overtune their action economy and it would quite possibly make FoB a fairly unused feature.
I was not clear with wording there but my point was that when the monk and rogue use dash or disengage as a bonus action, the damage for their attack actions start off similar. But the higher the level gets, the bigger the damage discrepancy for that attack action gets. Since these classes are similar in mobility, i believe they should be held to the same standard. But they clearly are not.
I never said free dodge action. Patient defense is strong. Monks should be paying a discipline point for that. I am merely suggesting one way to help the monk. There are a million opinions on that. Take you pick.
Most campaigns i play in do go to level 20, so even though i am in the minority it does not means discrepancies in how classes scale should be just witten off because most campaigns dont go there. Every class should scale properly from 1-20. Monks clearly have issues here. The reason most campaigns don't go to level 20 is because wotc does not offer much in the way of high level campaigns. But thats a separate topic.
No, it's balanced. The point is you choose between additional attacks or going on the defense. Making either a part of the attack action would overtune the class's action economy.
Sort of. The problem right now is that using Patient Defense cuts the Monk's offense in half. But it gives benefits similar to casting the Blur spell which (assuming a 4 round combat) only cuts your damage by 1/4. What they should do is move the basic 1 BA unarmed strike from Martial Arts into the your Attack action and turn Flurry of Blows into 1 extra attack as a bonus action.
That's an option, but the question there is timing in the character progression sense; a permanent 3 attacks per round using only the Attack Action is currently a level 11 feature. Move that up too far on Monks and you're undercutting Fighters who already get a lot of flack for being "basic"; push it further back than the opening of tier 3 and it ultimately isn't going to have much effect on the typical play experience with the class. Honestly, the best answer is probably just to tune up Monk damage a bit more, one way or another. Defense in general is not a hugely useful application of either an Action or a Bonus Action in 5e, in much the same way that a dedicated healer isn't going to do much good in the middle of typical combat. Success in combat is very heavily skewed towards raw DPR output. Patient Defense isn't a basic mitigation feature, it's an "in case of emergency, break glass" option for if the character is either unable to run away for some reason or in the sights of a bunch of ranged attackers.
Monks should have 2 paths in their class features. One for Personal damage dealing and defense (DEX) and one for Mobility and crowd control (WIS).
This way PsyrenXY's 8+PB+DEX+WIS will allow the monk to focus on one of the two stats. (They get 5 ASI/FEATS, and it usually costs 4 to get both to 20.)
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Instead of 10+Dex+Wis, what if Monk AC was 8+PB+Dex+Wis?
It would start out the same (16 at level 1) but slowly pass the 2014 monk until you ended up with 24 AC at max level, 25 with one stat hitting 22.
Honestly, I think if bracers of defense or some other magic item for monk defense could be used by monks without using a attunement It might be less of an issue.
I also think there are other ways besides AC to add to defense in the mid game, and finally, I think the biggest issue is Patient defense not doing well with the monk. I feel like if patient defense didn't use your bonus action the AC issue would be much less in general.
Notice that the monk then has no rights to get feats. That is one of the issues as it should be more oriented to getting half-feats like others and be enough, adding some value to its skills and variety for interest of playing it.
I like keeping PD as your Bonus Action, for the idea that you use your BA to pick your basic mode for that turn: fight vs flight vs defend.
But, you could have a way to spend a DP to increase your AC as a Reaction. It could be somewhere in between Defensive Dueler and Shield spell: it has the benefit of Defensive Dueler (PB bonus to AC), but lasts until your next turn like Shield. Or, vs 1 attacker for no DP cost, against all attackers for 1 DP cost.
Monk defense should be decent without specific magic items though. Magic items are there so you can punch above your weight class, which is why PCs stop at 20 but monsters keep scaling up to 30. If your game is guaranteed to get very specific magic items, that's great, but that shouldn't be an expectation.
Patient Defense's action economy is one of the key problems with it, I agree.
Some form of passive AC scaling would improve their ability to pick up feats though. It would mean you're not beelining for 20 Dex 20 Wis just to stay alive. AC scaling with PB (or some other progressive means) would help with that.
Yes I am agree with that, some kind of level scalling AC. What I like less is it to depend on 2 scores. The monk has disadvantage with any other martial (and non-martial like Rogue) class as dual score class, and cuts its options. And currently is tri-score, as requires Str to be fully unarmed proficient to be able to apply shove, crucial for Martial Arts tactics. Having only, at the same time, the base feats (while others like Rogue get one extra, really not needing it).
At the end if we think all the monk characters using the same subclass ends being made exactly the same, because the lack of options for creation.
I agree that monk defense should be decent without magic items. This is why I mentioned the Patient defense issue.
At level 1 their AC of 16 is decent compared to other classes. The best someone can do at this level is 18 with medium or heavy armor and a shield. By level 4 this bumps to 17 and the best those others are doing is 19 IF they spent money otherwise they are still sitting at 18, and if they can spend money to up their AC why can't the monk? The monk maxes out at 20 just like everyone else without using magic items. The issue is magic items and other things are easier to achieve for other classes than the monk. Making those other things easier for the monk as well helps. The MAD issue is linked to more than AC. Since their save DC's are wisdom based as well this means stunning strike and their subclass features all key off wisdom as well.
Combine these factors with a patient defense that actually works and your effective AC is huge. Even if you only ever got your AC to 18 and could patient defense most of the time, your effective AC would be 22. Without magic items.
if defense is lacking, why not double monk hp? oh, right because there's already a class that doubles their hp in a battle rage. well, then how about more dodging? oh, there's already a class (or two!) that's uncannily good at that? okay, then why is it fine to stack AC like a heavy armor fighter/paladin? or a shield-spelling bladesinger? it just feels so uninspired to fall back to nudging AC just a little higher, just a little higher like it's a privacy fence covering the neighbor's unruly tomato plants.
and why should we raise AC to facilitate the monk tanking attacks on the front line? what happened to monk being 'mobile' and 'a skirmisher' or whatever? why not some mobility? why not shuffling away from enemies that end their movement beside the monk? why not use grappled foes as 3/4 cover? why not move up to share the same square as a foe to force them to use weaker unarmed attacks and any other foe attacking that square must attack both or neither?
...anything but more AC number discussions.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
I’m just gonna say, honestly the issue of magic items seems overblown unless I’ve just been at tables with extremely stingy DMs. I see people talking in terms of AC with +3 armor and shields; those are Legendary rarity. If those are being handed out to every party member who can use them on top of other magic items, then honestly I’d say the issue is more a matter of the DM unbalancing the system. The Bracers are an uncommon item that gives +2 AC; basic +1 armor is rare. Making the bracers non-attunement sounds good when you’re looking only at martials, but they’d be a bit broken since they’d become standard carry on all wizards and sorcerers. Ultimately monks are a little on the glass cannon side, but they also have a wide range of mitigation or retreat options that can account for a few points of AC at the baselines actually intended by the system. They only notably fall off when the DM hands out high grade magic items like Halloween candy.
Edit: Had a brain fart, the Bracers are rare, but the point stands that they’re giving a better AC boost for their tier than the basic armor does.
All that has been discussed here and probably in the other monk threads. The main problem is having 2 scores, as monk has many DC checks using Wis, plus the unarmored defense, in addition to the lack of feats and access to combat feats. And looking at the latest video, I think many people has given up the option of changes so now the options are limited to superficial changes, like changing the AC computation for unarmored defense, instead deeper ones, which has near to zero chance to be applied.
The issue is more about the items available in the game by default; a good DM will hand out magic items with a view to balancing player characters, but the problem with Monk specifically is that there isn't a good selection of stock magic items, so DM's have to do more of the work themselves.
For example, if your Monk player uses a weapon then great, give them a magic weapon same as everyone else, and they'll benefit same as everyone else. But what about the unarmed strikes that also contribute to their damage output, or a Monk who only uses unarmed strikes? There are some items that can bolster these, but they all require attunement, which means losing attunement slots compared to other classes, they also aren't found in the Player's Handbook or Dungeon Master's Guide. Meanwhile armour-wearers can get a +2 armour without attunement, but a Monk's equivalent is bracers of defense, so that's another attunement slot gone. So while other martial classes can boost their base attacks and defence without attunement, leaving slots free for extras like amulets, rings etc., a Monk loses two of theirs to just keeping up, unless their DM creates custom items for them.
This could, and should, be fixed by improving the magic item selection. The Baldur's Gate 3 video game is a perfect showcase of this, because it's clear Larian has put a lot more thought into it than Wizards of the Coast ever did; I've found barbarian, caster and monk oriented clothes/robes fairly regularly. While I haven't found any that specifically boost AC they always give other good benefits that interact with the class instead, like the Armour of Uninhibited Kushigo which lets you make a reaction attack if someone misses you while Patient Defense is active. There are also corresponding gloves that give extra damage when you throw (which can apply twice if you build your monk for throwing enemies around) and so-on. Of course, the Monk on the whole is really good in Baldur's Gate 3, and the game ignores a lot of restrictions in D&D (like you can bonus action attack without doing a regular attack action, and there's no attunement), but it really highlights how neglected the class is in actual D&D.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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Wow, that could solve many things. Could use your Action for Disengage, Dash, Dodge, Use item and your Bonus Action for your specific MA attack or attacks in the case of using FoB. I think this is what many people though but in the opposite way, allow to use the Bonus Action for a single thing and multiple when using DP.
Notice that your sacrifice your multi-attack, so doesn't look bad in the term of balance.
if the monk had the same damage but it was all part of the attack action, then patient defense becomes very useable and i think the monks AC and damage are not so bad. but FOB competing for the bonus action is a terrible mechanic that needs to be fixed.
No, it's balanced. The point is you choose between additional attacks or going on the defense. Making either a part of the attack action would overtune the class's action economy.
So how do you explain the rogue then? They do not sacrifice any damage by using by using bonus action dash or disengage. Why does the monk have to cut their damage in half by doing the same thing? High end rogue can do about 45 (10d6+1d8+5) with the attack action but the monk can only do about 21 damage (2d10+10 assuming 20 dex) with their attack action. Thats pretty brutal in comparison. I've heard jeremy crawford say that whole "choosing between offense and defense" thing for the monk. It does not make any sense when there is clear precedent that shows otherwise. If you bring the monks current 4 attacks to the attack action that puts their high end damage with the attack action at about 42 (4d10+20) which is almost the same as the rogue.
I dont think its overtuning the monk, its just bringing the monk up to the same standard of design mechanics that another highly mobile class already has.
They objectively do sacrifice, because it still takes a bonus action and if you're a melee rogue there's almost no reason not to be dual wielding light weapons. Plus Disengage and Dash are less valuable than dodge; most enemies can catch up to you on your turn if you only Disengage, if you Dash they get the AoO, and if you do both you've just used your Action as well. Also, keep in mind that a Rogue's damage is a lot more swingy than a Monk's; they as a class get one or two attacks, period. Much easier to blow the roll and do nothing. Also, level 20 output is a poor metric, because almost no game hits that tier. Monks need a tune up, I'm not disputing that, but free Dodges are not a good solution, both because it would objectively overtune their action economy and it would quite possibly make FoB a fairly unused feature.
Sort of. The problem right now is that using Patient Defense cuts the Monk's offense in half. But it gives benefits similar to casting the Blur spell which (assuming a 4 round combat) only cuts your damage by 1/4. What they should do is move the basic 1 BA unarmed strike from Martial Arts into the your Attack action and turn Flurry of Blows into 1 extra attack as a bonus action.
I was not clear with wording there but my point was that when the monk and rogue use dash or disengage as a bonus action, the damage for their attack actions start off similar. But the higher the level gets, the bigger the damage discrepancy for that attack action gets. Since these classes are similar in mobility, i believe they should be held to the same standard. But they clearly are not.
I never said free dodge action. Patient defense is strong. Monks should be paying a discipline point for that. I am merely suggesting one way to help the monk. There are a million opinions on that. Take you pick.
Most campaigns i play in do go to level 20, so even though i am in the minority it does not means discrepancies in how classes scale should be just witten off because most campaigns dont go there. Every class should scale properly from 1-20. Monks clearly have issues here. The reason most campaigns don't go to level 20 is because wotc does not offer much in the way of high level campaigns. But thats a separate topic.
That's an option, but the question there is timing in the character progression sense; a permanent 3 attacks per round using only the Attack Action is currently a level 11 feature. Move that up too far on Monks and you're undercutting Fighters who already get a lot of flack for being "basic"; push it further back than the opening of tier 3 and it ultimately isn't going to have much effect on the typical play experience with the class. Honestly, the best answer is probably just to tune up Monk damage a bit more, one way or another. Defense in general is not a hugely useful application of either an Action or a Bonus Action in 5e, in much the same way that a dedicated healer isn't going to do much good in the middle of typical combat. Success in combat is very heavily skewed towards raw DPR output. Patient Defense isn't a basic mitigation feature, it's an "in case of emergency, break glass" option for if the character is either unable to run away for some reason or in the sights of a bunch of ranged attackers.
Monks should have 2 paths in their class features. One for Personal damage dealing and defense (DEX) and one for Mobility and crowd control (WIS).
This way PsyrenXY's 8+PB+DEX+WIS will allow the monk to focus on one of the two stats. (They get 5 ASI/FEATS, and it usually costs 4 to get both to 20.)