Personally, I've always used Wisdom/Constitution for Mental/Physical Fortitude, along with Intelligence/Dexterity as Mental/Physical Flexibility, and Charisma/Strength as Mental/Physical Power. That started for me a long time ago when in previous editions they introduced the idea of using Mental stats to substitute for Physical stats when doing Astral combat, which spread to Psionic combat a little bit later.
I think that the whole Counterspell concept needs to be reworked.
There are plenty of spells that are in opposition of each other that it would be much more interesting if spells could directly counter other spells.
Here are some examples:
Firebolt and Chill Touch, Magic Missile and Shield, Sleep and Alarm.
It would take some work from the DEV team, but it would be interesting. If that isn't enough, they could make Counterspell a Feat.
If they want to stick with the MTG Blue Deck mechanics, there are more interesting things they could do:
Burden Spell: Double a spell's material cost. The caster has to double the material cost or let the spell fail
Weaken Spell: Half a Spell's damage or effect
Change element: Change the elemental property of a spell.
Redirect spell: Change a spell's target to a location of the enemy's choice.
The question becomes how are you casting the opposite spell as a reaction? That would be a great counter system in a more cinematic game that lacked hard initiative. As for the feat idea I don’t really like it since it doesn’t come attached to a resource.
The question becomes how are you casting the opposite spell as a reaction?
Here's the way it worked in 3.5e (which is... rather inconvenient, but could in principle be adapted to 5e).
Counterspells
It is possible to cast any spell as a counterspell. By doing so, you are using the spell’s energy to disrupt the casting of the same spell by another character. Counterspelling works even if one spell is divine and the other arcane.
How Counterspells Work
To use a counterspell, you must select an opponent as the target of the counterspell. You do this by choosing the ready action. In doing so, you elect to wait to complete your action until your opponent tries to cast a spell. (You may still move your speed, since ready is a standard action.)
If the target of your counterspell tries to cast a spell, make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell’s level). This check is a free action. If the check succeeds, you correctly identify the opponent’s spell and can attempt to counter it. If the check fails, you can’t do either of these things.
To complete the action, you must then cast the correct spell. As a general rule, a spell can only counter itself. If you are able to cast the same spell and you have it prepared (if you prepare spells), you cast it, altering it slightly to create a counterspell effect. If the target is within range, both spells automatically negate each other with no other results.
Counterspelling Metamagic Spells
Metamagic feats are not taken into account when determining whether a spell can be countered
Specific Exceptions
Some spells specifically counter each other, especially when they have diametrically opposed effects.
Dispel Magic as a Counterspell
You can use dispel magic to counterspell another spellcaster, and you don’t need to identify the spell he or she is casting. However, dispel magic doesn’t always work as a counterspell.
The question becomes how are you casting the opposite spell as a reaction?
Here's the way it worked in 3.5e (which is... rather inconvenient, but could in principle be adapted to 5e).
Counterspells
It is possible to cast any spell as a counterspell. By doing so, you are using the spell’s energy to disrupt the casting of the same spell by another character. Counterspelling works even if one spell is divine and the other arcane.
How Counterspells Work
To use a counterspell, you must select an opponent as the target of the counterspell. You do this by choosing the ready action. In doing so, you elect to wait to complete your action until your opponent tries to cast a spell. (You may still move your speed, since ready is a standard action.)
If the target of your counterspell tries to cast a spell, make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell’s level). This check is a free action. If the check succeeds, you correctly identify the opponent’s spell and can attempt to counter it. If the check fails, you can’t do either of these things.
To complete the action, you must then cast the correct spell. As a general rule, a spell can only counter itself. If you are able to cast the same spell and you have it prepared (if you prepare spells), you cast it, altering it slightly to create a counterspell effect. If the target is within range, both spells automatically negate each other with no other results.
Counterspelling Metamagic Spells
Metamagic feats are not taken into account when determining whether a spell can be countered
Specific Exceptions
Some spells specifically counter each other, especially when they have diametrically opposed effects.
Dispel Magic as a Counterspell
You can use dispel magic to counterspell another spellcaster, and you don’t need to identify the spell he or she is casting. However, dispel magic doesn’t always work as a counterspell.
It was trash in 3.5 and I can’t remember ever seeing it done. I do remember reading it and thinking it was cool back then. I don’t agree with my younger self at all.
In 5e readying a spell is concentrating on the spell. I’m assuming it would be simplified down to dispel magic to keep it simple. If they don’t cast or move out of range to cast you wasted your turn, and your spell slot. Also any concentration spell you had up before your turn.
It's hard to predict survey responses, but based on the thought put into it and JC's justifications, I think the Counterspell we will ultimately see will be quite similar to this playtest version. And that wouldn't disappoint me at all. I feel like the current version is acceptable and the playtest version is an improvement.
I personally think that counterspell should be a feature with X amount of uses a day as opposed to a spell. Call it Channel Arcane or whatever. But it shouldn't be a guaranteed counter and should be difficult.
I don't know what the true answer is, but this change gets close for me. Perhaps it should be opposed spell casting ability checks. My +4 versus the enemy +4 straight up opposed roll. I don't know, but the 2014 version is quite terrible and this is head and shoulders better.
You could bake into the counterspell rules that any spell cast as a counterspell is done as a reaction.
Another option could be to make counterspelling tied to the ready action. As your action you ready a counterspell action. Then when an enemy casts a spell, you can counter it if you have the countering spell prepared.
This should add limits and not be too disruptive to combat flow.
You could bake into the counterspell rules that any spell cast as a counterspell is done as a reaction.
Another option could be to make counterspelling tied to the ready action. As your action you ready a counterspell action. Then when an enemy casts a spell, you can counter it if you have the countering spell prepared.
This should add limits and not be too disruptive to combat flow.
It has to be a reaction.
The thought of it is as you see your opponent draw something from their bag and start uttering the words you cast the lightning fast "counterspell" to disrupt them before the flow of power connects.
Plus, if you ready counterspell as an action, 1. Your DM knows so they never cast a spell, 2. Since they never cast a spell you don't ever cast counterspell, but, somehow, effectively get the same results as counterspell, and 3. Since the moment you DON'T cast counterspell your DM will, you essentially do nothing but hold counterspell all the time.
Remove Counterspell as a leveled spell and make it a class feature or a cantrip. Why should you lose a spell slot if the target doesn't.
Because the target loses an action and you don't.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
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No, my point is that it needs more nerfing.
I think that the whole Counterspell concept needs to be reworked.
There are plenty of spells that are in opposition of each other that it would be much more interesting if spells could directly counter other spells.
Here are some examples:
Firebolt and Chill Touch, Magic Missile and Shield, Sleep and Alarm.
It would take some work from the DEV team, but it would be interesting. If that isn't enough, they could make Counterspell a Feat.
If they want to stick with the MTG Blue Deck mechanics, there are more interesting things they could do:
Burden Spell: Double a spell's material cost. The caster has to double the material cost or let the spell fail
Weaken Spell: Half a Spell's damage or effect
Change element: Change the elemental property of a spell.
Redirect spell: Change a spell's target to a location of the enemy's choice.
Personally, I've always used Wisdom/Constitution for Mental/Physical Fortitude, along with Intelligence/Dexterity as Mental/Physical Flexibility, and Charisma/Strength as Mental/Physical Power. That started for me a long time ago when in previous editions they introduced the idea of using Mental stats to substitute for Physical stats when doing Astral combat, which spread to Psionic combat a little bit later.
The question becomes how are you casting the opposite spell as a reaction? That would be a great counter system in a more cinematic game that lacked hard initiative. As for the feat idea I don’t really like it since it doesn’t come attached to a resource.
Here's the way it worked in 3.5e (which is... rather inconvenient, but could in principle be adapted to 5e).
It was trash in 3.5 and I can’t remember ever seeing it done. I do remember reading it and thinking it was cool back then. I don’t agree with my younger self at all.
In 5e readying a spell is concentrating on the spell. I’m assuming it would be simplified down to dispel magic to keep it simple. If they don’t cast or move out of range to cast you wasted your turn, and your spell slot. Also any concentration spell you had up before your turn.
Honestly, nerfing it to the point of "almost never gets done" is preferable to the current counterspell.
It's hard to predict survey responses, but based on the thought put into it and JC's justifications, I think the Counterspell we will ultimately see will be quite similar to this playtest version. And that wouldn't disappoint me at all. I feel like the current version is acceptable and the playtest version is an improvement.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I personally think that counterspell should be a feature with X amount of uses a day as opposed to a spell. Call it Channel Arcane or whatever. But it shouldn't be a guaranteed counter and should be difficult.
I don't know what the true answer is, but this change gets close for me. Perhaps it should be opposed spell casting ability checks. My +4 versus the enemy +4 straight up opposed roll. I don't know, but the 2014 version is quite terrible and this is head and shoulders better.
You could bake into the counterspell rules that any spell cast as a counterspell is done as a reaction.
Another option could be to make counterspelling tied to the ready action. As your action you ready a counterspell action. Then when an enemy casts a spell, you can counter it if you have the countering spell prepared.
This should add limits and not be too disruptive to combat flow.
It has to be a reaction.
The thought of it is as you see your opponent draw something from their bag and start uttering the words you cast the lightning fast "counterspell" to disrupt them before the flow of power connects.
Plus, if you ready counterspell as an action, 1. Your DM knows so they never cast a spell, 2. Since they never cast a spell you don't ever cast counterspell, but, somehow, effectively get the same results as counterspell, and 3. Since the moment you DON'T cast counterspell your DM will, you essentially do nothing but hold counterspell all the time.
Remove Counterspell as a leveled spell and make it a class feature or a cantrip. Why should you lose a spell slot if the target doesn't.
Because the target loses an action and you don't.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)