On the other hand, if you were to do a poll of individuals by primary role, I am willing to bet that Players would favor increasing damage for Cantrips through 4th Level spells and that DMs would favor evening out damage of 2nd through 7th level spells and expanding the higher level spells to encourage higher level gameplay.
Player options is not the problem with higher level gameplay, every player I know would love to build and play 20th level characters. The problem with higher level gameplay is that it is so much work to DM, and it make the adventuring day too long. Many groups meet only every 2 weeks or even less regularly, and may only meet for 3-4 hours, it's not that engaging to spend multiple sessions (and 1-2 real life months) just getting through a single combat. IMO there is no feasible solution here because reducing complexity (mainly by reducing spellcaster options & power) will be met with massive backlash from the power-gamers who dream of the power of current 20th level character.
IMO there is no feasible solution here because reducing complexity (mainly by reducing spellcaster options & power) will be met with massive backlash from the power-gamers who dream of the power of current 20th level character.
I have to agree that most of what makes high level difficult to run is spells and magic items, because they give the players such an immense variety of options so it's difficult to give them what feels like a fair challenge (if you don't care about fairness, you just have the NPCs exploit all the broken spells too and it turns into rocket tag).
On the other hand, if you were to do a poll of individuals by primary role, I am willing to bet that Players would favor increasing damage for Cantrips through 4th Level spells and that DMs would favor evening out damage of 2nd through 7th level spells and expanding the higher level spells to encourage higher level gameplay.
Player options is not the problem with higher level gameplay, every player I know would love to build and play 20th level characters. The problem with higher level gameplay is that it is so much work to DM, and it make the adventuring day too long. Many groups meet only every 2 weeks or even less regularly, and may only meet for 3-4 hours, it's not that engaging to spend multiple sessions (and 1-2 real life months) just getting through a single combat. IMO there is no feasible solution here because reducing complexity (mainly by reducing spellcaster options & power) will be met with massive backlash from the power-gamers who dream of the power of current 20th level character.
That's why I said the DM's would want he higher level game play while the players would focus on lower level.
By spreading the power out, it give shte DM an ability to craft higher level adventures more readily because everything isn't front loaded, in a lot of sense.
Granted, Tier 4 campaigns are hard as it is -- beyond just the near required lethality of them should some dice go bad on you, to provide that challenge definitely something that has to have a potential for regional change, and that means the stakes need to be concomitant.
Hard to do without getting into those circumstances where a game can last multiple sessions for a single combat.
But by and large the overwhelming majority of Dms aren't going to be controlling their spell lists or limiting classes or features. They are going to allow that tier, if they get to it, to be as wild and unchallenging and unfair as it would be in the current state. THus, adjusting the degree of power is key.
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Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I think spells should be useful at the level they are gained, and become more useful over time.
When you get a new level of spells, this should be an ooh, I got new toys event. Once you've known the spell for ten levels, it's part of your background.
For example, here's how I'd redesign those spells:
Absorb Elements changes from "resistance" to "prevent up to 10 damage, +5 per level above 1". That's much better than the existing spell against most tier 1 threats -- you aren't generally going to see a situation where resistance is better until the DM is dropping fireball on you, which is generally a tier 2 problem -- but it's now actually appropriate for a level 1 spell.
Shield changes from "+5 AC" to "If AC is less than 20, it becomes 20, +1 per level above 1". For a low level wizard, that's probably better than current, since low level wizards do not generally walk around with a base AC of 15+. It's still competitive at mid levels, but it doesn't become a component of achieving AC 30.
I am finishing the cantrips right now (and appreciating how different my magic system is in the process), so haven't gotten there yet. In terms of general RAI?RAW though, your Absorb elements works as I would describe it. At 20th level that's 30 points of damage shrugged off from an elemental attack. That's a big chunk. There may be more useful, more potent abjurations, but it is still a useful spell that doesn't need to suck up spell slots.
I would probably do Shield as a flat AC14 +1 per level, max 30. Maybe even as a flat 10+1 per level. It only lasts a single round, and keeps it as a handy quick spell (reaction) in a powerful mage's toolkit without changing the need for other options. At midlevels, it means that mages are going to go into battle with it, for certain, which isn't immediately bad unless you are doing 2 to 3 round combats that last 2 hours (and I would go nuts if my players hemmed and hawed that much).
Good utility spell that means a caster doesn't need to be protected from ranged attacks while readying that fireball of theirs, and give them a chance against DMs who might employ anti-magic missles in with regular arrows *looks very innocent*
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Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
From my buzz-through, I noticed the obvious calls to eliminate stuff like Shield, Misty Step, Absorb Elements, Fly, Counterspell, and other common/popular spells for being "too good/must-picks".
Shield and Absorb Elements have the problem that they're kind of bad at the level where you learn them, and amazing when you're high level, which is backwards: spells should be great at the level where you learn them, and gradually decline in relevance.
Misty Step and Fly break certain types of puzzles, which I really think is on the DM: either don't use puzzles of those types, or accept that they're a resource drain rather than a big puzzle that will stop people.
I have no issue with misty step or fly. Counterspell I agree with, and shield and absorb elements are fixable not needing a ban.
I am finishing the cantrips right now (and appreciating how different my magic system is in the process), so haven't gotten there yet. In terms of general RAI?RAW though, your Absorb elements works as I would describe it. At 20th level that's 30 points of damage shrugged off from an elemental attack.
By 'level' I mean 'spell level'. At 20th level a first level spell slot absorbs 10 damage, just like it did at level 1.
I am finishing the cantrips right now (and appreciating how different my magic system is in the process), so haven't gotten there yet. In terms of general RAI?RAW though, your Absorb elements works as I would describe it. At 20th level that's 30 points of damage shrugged off from an elemental attack.
By 'level' I mean 'spell level'. At 20th level a first level spell slot absorbs 10 damage, just like it did at level 1.
ah, yeah, that I wouldn't do.
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Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Dont know if someone already mention it but i would like more Bonus action cantrips, they dont need to do anything offensive but something out of combat or a small defensive maneuver, i just find it sad to waste bonus actions.
I would like the ability to improve Identify, using higher level spell slots, such as the following:
At higher levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 5th level or higher, you may also have knowledge of any type of curse that is on the creature or object, and if it has any way to modify, weaken, or remove it, the spellcaster will do so. warns and may have a somewhat ambiguous clue regarding this. Once a curse is identified, if it is very powerful it is possible that the material component will deteriorate.
This could help avoid some surprises in the group with cursed items but only spending a spell slot of level 5 or higher, that is, only in high-level groups. And it might prompt the DM to direct the party to an alternate route in case they want to try to do something about it.
I would like the ability to improve Identify, using higher level spell slots, such as the following:
At higher levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 5th level or higher, you may also have knowledge of any type of curse that is on the creature or object, and if it has any way to modify, weaken, or remove it, the spellcaster will do so. warns and may have a somewhat ambiguous clue regarding this. Once a curse is identified, if it is very powerful it is possible that the material component will deteriorate.
This could help avoid some surprises in the group with cursed items but only spending a spell slot of level 5 or higher, that is, only in high-level groups. And it might prompt the DM to direct the party to an alternate route in case they want to try to do something about it.
Oh, a little bit like the old Legend Lore spell of yore? It would be fun to give DMs a chance to give some background about a particular item, maybe even using it as a plot-hook or narrative device to give the players some more things to chew on.
Actually, it may sound greedy, but I'd love to see upcasts on eeerrrrything. And all cantrips being level-scaleable. Yeah! That's a good hill to set up my last stand at - "Make Minor Magic Mature More Meaningfully!"
I noticed that Treantmonk came out with a video on 'outlier' spells, which I don't entirely agree with, but it's an interesting list:
Ceremony -- mostly because of the "+2 AC for a week after a wedding", which I agree is kinda dumb and should probably just be deleted. Or just give +5 temp hit points, which last for a week unless lost earlier for some other reason.
Goodberry -- on the grounds of 'removes survival adventures'. His fix is to just remove the part where it provides food, which is... simple and does the job.
Shield -- which is on everyone's list. I dislike his solution, though.
Sleep -- which surprises me. I guess he's seen a problem I haven't?
Heat Metal -- I have to agree that no-save damage and a (generally no-save) debuff is... a bit much.
Pass Without Trace -- yeah, +10 is dumb. Make it Advantage on Stealth, Disadvantage on Perception (or even only one of those two things).
Spike Growth -- apparently, he's seen issues of grappler builds dragging people at high speeds through it. Not a problem I've personally encountered but I can see the point.
Web -- I think he's opposed to it taking an action to escape and generally having odd mechanics.
Conjure Animals -- yes, 8x CR 1/4 monsters has apparently scarred his psyche permanently, though wanting to reduce it to 2 CR 1/4 is ... a bit overkill. My expectation is that the Conjure spells will be changed to use a specific limited list.
Fear -- my experience with this spell is that it scatters monsters all over the dungeon, causing them to make trouble for you later or possibly chain-aggro everything else on you, so not a big issue. It should probably clarify that "unless there is nowhere to move" means that it isn't required to dash (the wording is somewhat unclear), and maybe remove the LOS requirement for breaking free.
Pass Without Trace -- yeah, +10 is dumb. Make it Advantage on Stealth, Disadvantage on Perception (or even only one of those two things).
My suggestion for Pass Without Trace : replace the +10 Stealth with "the minimum stealth check is your Spellcasting Ability Score". Then it helps the whole party, especially the heavy armor types, without being a ridiculous bonus to a skill. Also, I'd like the name changed to "Pass Without A Trace".
I noticed that Treantmonk came out with a video on 'outlier' spells, which I don't entirely agree with, but it's an interesting list:
Interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing.
Sleep -- which surprises me. I guess he's seen a problem I haven't?
At level 1 and level 2, it's completely broken. By level 3, it's mostly useless. It's a guaranteed 5d8 (average 22.5) hit points of creatures going Unconscious, which might as well be dead. At low levels, 22.5 gets you really far, so it can be an easy no-save win in a lot of encounters.
Spike Growth -- apparently, he's seen issues of grappler builds dragging people at high speeds through it. Not a problem I've personally encountered but I can see the point.
Builds made specifically to move people around a ton to deal a bunch of damage with spike growth are pretty widespread. Definitely an exploitable problem.
Conjure Animals -- yes, 8x CR 1/4 monsters has apparently scarred his psyche permanently, though wanting to reduce it to 2 CR 1/4 is ... a bit overkill. My expectation is that the Conjure spells will be changed to use a specific limited list.
I'm expecting (and hoping) that they'll be replaced entirely by the summon spells. A ton of creatures in the combat is horrible to work with.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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I noticed that Treantmonk came out with a video on 'outlier' spells, which I don't entirely agree with, but it's an interesting list:
Spike Growth -- apparently, he's seen issues of grappler builds dragging people at high speeds through it. Not a problem I've personally encountered but I can see the point
I'll use this one as an example of my issue with his list. some are legit, like sure wall of force even if it can't broken at least give a save. But things like this, can it be abused sure, but is it abused at 99% of tables, no. And fixes to it tend to make it even less valuable to the people who don't abuse it where it was decent but no where near must take. Super crazy optimizers can break it isn't really a persuasive argument to me to "fix" things to the point where it is no longer valuable to the average player.
Pass Without Trace -- yeah, +10 is dumb. Make it Advantage on Stealth, Disadvantage on Perception (or even only one of those two things).
My suggestion for Pass Without Trace : replace the +10 Stealth with "the minimum stealth check is your Spellcasting Ability Score". Then it helps the whole party, especially the heavy armor types, without being a ridiculous bonus to a skill. Also, I'd like the name changed to "Pass Without A Trace".
That would still be insanely good. At level 4 the druid has a 18 wisdom, so everyone has a min 18 result on their test so basically unless you are sneaking up on a beholder you are hidden. Now, can use spell casters casting stat instead of their dexterity when making stealth checks might work. So basically that fighter has a +4 to their check instead a minimum of 18, maybe add in you never roll disadvantage for stealth checks while spell is maintained. So the heavy armor fighter isn't+4 at disadvantage.
I noticed that Treantmonk came out with a video on 'outlier' spells, which I don't entirely agree with, but it's an interesting list:
Polymorph -- yeah, no surprise here either, though I've yet to see a good fix and his proposal does nothing for me.
Simulacrum -- no surprise here. I dislike his fix, the spell has a plot purpose that should be achievable in a less exploitable way.
My opinion on these 2 is polymorph should basically just be a baleful polymorph from 3e. You turn people into cr 1/4 critters. Let the wizard when cast allow a target to keep their mind when transformed maybe so if cast on a fellow pc it can be used for scouting or something.
Simulacrum, honestly I'd of nerfed it further than him and had it be a make a commoner spell. Let it be used for disguise/subterfuge not combat. They look, sound, smell like target have their stats and memories if a willing target, if unwilling the target gets a save every time the simulacrum tries to use its memory to mimic it, but they are just a level 1 commoner. His fix of removing spells helps I guess but the 20th level fighter simulacrum is still a freaking powerhouse.
The 9th level spells have some weird loopholes which can mess up a campaign. Wish I never really had a issue with. I don't think its crazy over powered its just super useful to have a variable any spell spell slot. His fix does not really change that as most spells still fall into that scope and are how I usually see it used anyways. Sure if someone is killed a free raise dead is nice but its not like the 17th level party is hurting for 500gp.
Also my super-mega-ultra controversial take on Wish as a spell is that if it keeps the "Anything goes" part of it, the spell should not be something a player can just take as soon as they hit 17th level. It feels (at least to me) like one of those spells that you have to go on a quest to obtain or make a deal with some powerful entity to access.
As is, this is a spell that can alter reality on a level that could be campaign-ending if the DM doesn't heavily restrict what it can do, so it shouldn't be something a 17th-level wizard wakes up with once-per-day access to.
More broadly, it also just reduces your meaningful choices when it comes to 9th level spells. If you have access to this spell and don't take it, you're deliberately nerfing yourself, and everyone knows it. All that being said, restricting its safe mode to replicating 8th level or lower spells with a casting time of 1 action drastically cuts down on the cheesy garbage you can get away with using this spell. I'm looking at you simulacrum, symbol, planar binding, etc.
I guess, but imo if wish giving it to you for free makes things super cheesy I think you more have to look at the spell and why its free use becomes cheesy as you can be at a table just buried in cash at those levels just as easily, and its not like you have stuff to spend your cash on so they are effectively free for a rich table anyways. So instead of wish or maybe along with fixing wish I'd say those spells need to be fixed so they have some kind of cap on usefulness no matter how much cash you got to throw around.
I noticed that Treantmonk came out with a video on 'outlier' spells, which I don't entirely agree with, but it's an interesting list:
Interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing.
Sleep -- which surprises me. I guess he's seen a problem I haven't?
At level 1 and level 2, it's completely broken. By level 3, it's mostly useless. It's a guaranteed 5d8 (average 22.5) hit points of creatures going Unconscious, which might as well be dead. At low levels, 22.5 gets you really far, so it can be an easy no-save win in a lot of encounters.
Spike Growth -- apparently, he's seen issues of grappler builds dragging people at high speeds through it. Not a problem I've personally encountered but I can see the point.
Builds made specifically to move people around a ton to deal a bunch of damage with spike growth are pretty widespread. Definitely an exploitable problem.
Conjure Animals -- yes, 8x CR 1/4 monsters has apparently scarred his psyche permanently, though wanting to reduce it to 2 CR 1/4 is ... a bit overkill. My expectation is that the Conjure spells will be changed to use a specific limited list.
I'm expecting (and hoping) that they'll be replaced entirely by the summon spells. A ton of creatures in the combat is horrible to work with.
For sleep, everything is broke at 1st and 2nd level so I don't see the issue there and a level 1 spell not being useful later on does not bother me much either.
For spike growth, I've seen people try to exploit it. It rarely works out as well as people think and frequently ends up not being worth even trying. It feels like one of those white room designs that don't land as well as people think outside some really rare tables. I am not too worried about super optmizers as they will always find a way to break the game.
Conjure animals, I'd like that as well but even the summon spells I think need to be tuned down.
Also my super-mega-ultra controversial take on Wish as a spell is that if it keeps the "Anything goes" part of it, the spell should not be something a player can just take as soon as they hit 17th level. It feels (at least to me) like one of those spells that you have to go on a quest to obtain or make a deal with some powerful entity to access.
As is, this is a spell that can alter reality on a level that could be campaign-ending if the DM doesn't heavily restrict what it can do, so it shouldn't be something a 17th-level wizard wakes up with once-per-day access to.
More broadly, it also just reduces your meaningful choices when it comes to 9th level spells. If you have access to this spell and don't take it, you're deliberately nerfing yourself, and everyone knows it. All that being said, restricting its safe mode to replicating 8th level or lower spells with a casting time of 1 action drastically cuts down on the cheesy garbage you can get away with using this spell. I'm looking at you simulacrum, symbol, planar binding, etc.
I guess, but imo if wish giving it to you for free makes things super cheesy I think you more have to look at the spell and why its free use becomes cheesy as you can be at a table just buried in cash at those levels just as easily, and its not like you have stuff to spend your cash on so they are effectively free for a rich table anyways. So instead of wish or maybe along with fixing wish I'd say those spells need to be fixed so they have some kind of cap on usefulness no matter how much cash you got to throw around.
Simulacrum as a spell needs to be fixed in its own right, so you would be right with that one. But symbol (and its cousin glyph of warding) are not spells that have any business being cast with 1 action for nothing but a 9th level spell slot. Heck, an inverted magic circle being cast in combat can also be busted, depending on the type of creature you're fighting.
These spells have the casting times and consumed material components they do for a reason, and making them 1 action without material components can break them.
And nevertheless, this doesn't address my other point, which is that if you have wish on your spell list, you take it if you don't want to nerf yourself. This also comes up with Genie-locks and 18th level Magical Secrets for Bards. At least in the case of Genie-locks, it fits the theme.
I don't really think its much of a nerf, if it is one. 9th level spell on the whole are just so much more powerful than lower level spells even 8th level spells that access to all 1st-8th level spells is more useful in that always have the right tool way, but its not really more powerful. For example symbol at one action is that more powerful than shapechange, no its not. Now if all 9th level spells are nerfed enough then sure with the gap between 8th and 9th level spells narrowed it is a issue.
My general opinion on wish is that it just shouldn't be a spell you regularly cast. I would simply make the spell something like "If you cast Wish to replicate another spell, you suffer levels of exhaustion equal to the level of the spell. If you use it for greater effect, you suffer ten levels of exhaustion". This still lets you do impressive things in a pinch, but it's not going to be a part of your regular arsenal.
My opinion of Simulacrum would be "Replicate a character up to the level of the spell, or a creature with a CR up to the level of the spell. For something more powerful, it either fails, or is treated as having a level or CR equal to the level of the spell".
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Player options is not the problem with higher level gameplay, every player I know would love to build and play 20th level characters. The problem with higher level gameplay is that it is so much work to DM, and it make the adventuring day too long. Many groups meet only every 2 weeks or even less regularly, and may only meet for 3-4 hours, it's not that engaging to spend multiple sessions (and 1-2 real life months) just getting through a single combat. IMO there is no feasible solution here because reducing complexity (mainly by reducing spellcaster options & power) will be met with massive backlash from the power-gamers who dream of the power of current 20th level character.
I have to agree that most of what makes high level difficult to run is spells and magic items, because they give the players such an immense variety of options so it's difficult to give them what feels like a fair challenge (if you don't care about fairness, you just have the NPCs exploit all the broken spells too and it turns into rocket tag).
That's why I said the DM's would want he higher level game play while the players would focus on lower level.
By spreading the power out, it give shte DM an ability to craft higher level adventures more readily because everything isn't front loaded, in a lot of sense.
Granted, Tier 4 campaigns are hard as it is -- beyond just the near required lethality of them should some dice go bad on you, to provide that challenge definitely something that has to have a potential for regional change, and that means the stakes need to be concomitant.
Hard to do without getting into those circumstances where a game can last multiple sessions for a single combat.
But by and large the overwhelming majority of Dms aren't going to be controlling their spell lists or limiting classes or features. They are going to allow that tier, if they get to it, to be as wild and unchallenging and unfair as it would be in the current state. THus, adjusting the degree of power is key.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
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I am finishing the cantrips right now (and appreciating how different my magic system is in the process), so haven't gotten there yet. In terms of general RAI?RAW though, your Absorb elements works as I would describe it. At 20th level that's 30 points of damage shrugged off from an elemental attack. That's a big chunk. There may be more useful, more potent abjurations, but it is still a useful spell that doesn't need to suck up spell slots.
I would probably do Shield as a flat AC14 +1 per level, max 30. Maybe even as a flat 10+1 per level. It only lasts a single round, and keeps it as a handy quick spell (reaction) in a powerful mage's toolkit without changing the need for other options. At midlevels, it means that mages are going to go into battle with it, for certain, which isn't immediately bad unless you are doing 2 to 3 round combats that last 2 hours (and I would go nuts if my players hemmed and hawed that much).
Good utility spell that means a caster doesn't need to be protected from ranged attacks while readying that fireball of theirs, and give them a chance against DMs who might employ anti-magic missles in with regular arrows *looks very innocent*
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I have no issue with misty step or fly. Counterspell I agree with, and shield and absorb elements are fixable not needing a ban.
By 'level' I mean 'spell level'. At 20th level a first level spell slot absorbs 10 damage, just like it did at level 1.
ah, yeah, that I wouldn't do.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Dont know if someone already mention it but i would like more Bonus action cantrips, they dont need to do anything offensive but something out of combat or a small defensive maneuver, i just find it sad to waste bonus actions.
I would like the ability to improve Identify, using higher level spell slots, such as the following:
At higher levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 5th level or higher, you may also have knowledge of any type of curse that is on the creature or object, and if it has any way to modify, weaken, or remove it, the spellcaster will do so. warns and may have a somewhat ambiguous clue regarding this. Once a curse is identified, if it is very powerful it is possible that the material component will deteriorate.
This could help avoid some surprises in the group with cursed items but only spending a spell slot of level 5 or higher, that is, only in high-level groups. And it might prompt the DM to direct the party to an alternate route in case they want to try to do something about it.
Oh, a little bit like the old Legend Lore spell of yore? It would be fun to give DMs a chance to give some background about a particular item, maybe even using it as a plot-hook or narrative device to give the players some more things to chew on.
Actually, it may sound greedy, but I'd love to see upcasts on eeerrrrything. And all cantrips being level-scaleable. Yeah! That's a good hill to set up my last stand at - "Make Minor Magic Mature More Meaningfully!"
I noticed that Treantmonk came out with a video on 'outlier' spells, which I don't entirely agree with, but it's an interesting list:
My suggestion for Pass Without Trace : replace the +10 Stealth with "the minimum stealth check is your Spellcasting Ability Score". Then it helps the whole party, especially the heavy armor types, without being a ridiculous bonus to a skill. Also, I'd like the name changed to "Pass Without A Trace".
Interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing.
At level 1 and level 2, it's completely broken. By level 3, it's mostly useless. It's a guaranteed 5d8 (average 22.5) hit points of creatures going Unconscious, which might as well be dead. At low levels, 22.5 gets you really far, so it can be an easy no-save win in a lot of encounters.
Builds made specifically to move people around a ton to deal a bunch of damage with spike growth are pretty widespread. Definitely an exploitable problem.
I'm expecting (and hoping) that they'll be replaced entirely by the summon spells. A ton of creatures in the combat is horrible to work with.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I'll use this one as an example of my issue with his list. some are legit, like sure wall of force even if it can't broken at least give a save. But things like this, can it be abused sure, but is it abused at 99% of tables, no. And fixes to it tend to make it even less valuable to the people who don't abuse it where it was decent but no where near must take. Super crazy optimizers can break it isn't really a persuasive argument to me to "fix" things to the point where it is no longer valuable to the average player.
That would still be insanely good. At level 4 the druid has a 18 wisdom, so everyone has a min 18 result on their test so basically unless you are sneaking up on a beholder you are hidden. Now, can use spell casters casting stat instead of their dexterity when making stealth checks might work. So basically that fighter has a +4 to their check instead a minimum of 18, maybe add in you never roll disadvantage for stealth checks while spell is maintained. So the heavy armor fighter isn't+4 at disadvantage.
My opinion on these 2 is polymorph should basically just be a baleful polymorph from 3e. You turn people into cr 1/4 critters. Let the wizard when cast allow a target to keep their mind when transformed maybe so if cast on a fellow pc it can be used for scouting or something.
Simulacrum, honestly I'd of nerfed it further than him and had it be a make a commoner spell. Let it be used for disguise/subterfuge not combat. They look, sound, smell like target have their stats and memories if a willing target, if unwilling the target gets a save every time the simulacrum tries to use its memory to mimic it, but they are just a level 1 commoner. His fix of removing spells helps I guess but the 20th level fighter simulacrum is still a freaking powerhouse.
The 9th level spells have some weird loopholes which can mess up a campaign. Wish I never really had a issue with. I don't think its crazy over powered its just super useful to have a variable any spell spell slot. His fix does not really change that as most spells still fall into that scope and are how I usually see it used anyways. Sure if someone is killed a free raise dead is nice but its not like the 17th level party is hurting for 500gp.
I guess, but imo if wish giving it to you for free makes things super cheesy I think you more have to look at the spell and why its free use becomes cheesy as you can be at a table just buried in cash at those levels just as easily, and its not like you have stuff to spend your cash on so they are effectively free for a rich table anyways. So instead of wish or maybe along with fixing wish I'd say those spells need to be fixed so they have some kind of cap on usefulness no matter how much cash you got to throw around.
For sleep, everything is broke at 1st and 2nd level so I don't see the issue there and a level 1 spell not being useful later on does not bother me much either.
For spike growth, I've seen people try to exploit it. It rarely works out as well as people think and frequently ends up not being worth even trying. It feels like one of those white room designs that don't land as well as people think outside some really rare tables. I am not too worried about super optmizers as they will always find a way to break the game.
Conjure animals, I'd like that as well but even the summon spells I think need to be tuned down.
I don't really think its much of a nerf, if it is one. 9th level spell on the whole are just so much more powerful than lower level spells even 8th level spells that access to all 1st-8th level spells is more useful in that always have the right tool way, but its not really more powerful. For example symbol at one action is that more powerful than shapechange, no its not. Now if all 9th level spells are nerfed enough then sure with the gap between 8th and 9th level spells narrowed it is a issue.
My general opinion on wish is that it just shouldn't be a spell you regularly cast. I would simply make the spell something like "If you cast Wish to replicate another spell, you suffer levels of exhaustion equal to the level of the spell. If you use it for greater effect, you suffer ten levels of exhaustion". This still lets you do impressive things in a pinch, but it's not going to be a part of your regular arsenal.
My opinion of Simulacrum would be "Replicate a character up to the level of the spell, or a creature with a CR up to the level of the spell. For something more powerful, it either fails, or is treated as having a level or CR equal to the level of the spell".