I've been pouring over the UA 7 packet (super late to the party...lots going on IRL), and while lots of it has me quite excited, I'm left wondering about two specific things with regards to Warlock:
Improved Pact Weapon and The Hexblade, both from Xanathar's.
I'm seeing that the new Pact of the Blade does a little bit out of both Improved Pact and Hexblade, in that it lets you use CHA and turns your pacted blade into a focus. However, I'm seeing that Blade Pact -doesn't- note anything about the enhancement bonus that the previous Invocation did. So I'm wondering if that bonus is going to be factored into Pact of the Blade as well down the line (maybe an "at level X you get +1" type thing), or if Improved Pact Weapon will get some kind of buff for its Focus aspect being switched out.
I was also not seeing any mention of how a pact-bound weapon counts as magical for the purposes of bypassing enemy resistances and immunities. Is that so on the assumption that switching your damage type is enough, or was this a mistake?
The adjustments being made to patrons coming at level 3 and blade pact in general also have a massive impact on The Hexblade patron. Not in that it's been invalidated per say (there's still tons of reasons to choose it over the other patrons), but it does seem like it warrants a heavy revisit with how much of the warlock's melee functions are being tweaked. I do hope that it at the least won't lose its armor and shield proficiency benefit (given that for me, those two things really make it stand out among the other patrons), and that something will be reworked with Hexwarrior so it's not just a massive redundancy with Pact of the Blade. (Though it enabling you to CHA bind a second weapon has always been a plus).
Will say this at least; re-writing its lore to be less obtuse/ confusingly laid out would be nice...
(Also, apologies if all of this has come up in the past/ if it's too late to have any thoughts at all about pack 7. First time posting in the UA threads).
EDIT: Oh! Also, noticed Pact of the Blade no longer lets you shunt off your weapon. This was always a function that had more RP benefit than anything, but I could also see situations where it would be beneficial. Was this also left out on purpose?
I was also not seeing any mention of how a pact-bound weapon counts as magical for the purposes of bypassing enemy resistances and immunities. Is that so on the assumption that switching your damage type is enough, or was this a mistake?
"Magical Weapon damage" is likely to be removed entirely and swapped in all associated features for some other dmg type. Here: ...you can cause the weapon to deal Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant damage or its normal damage type.
The adjustments being made to patrons coming at level 3 and blade pact in general also have a massive impact on The Hexblade patron. Not in that it's been invalidated per say (there's still tons of reasons to choose it over the other patrons), but it does seem like it warrants a heavy revisit with how much of the warlock's melee functions are being tweaked. I do hope that it at the least won't lose its armor and shield proficiency benefit (given that for me, those two things really make it stand out among the other patrons), and that something will be reworked with Hexwarrior so it's not just a massive redundancy with Pact of the Blade. (Though it enabling you to CHA bind a second weapon has always been a plus).
Hexblade got way too much on level 1 anyway. If anything, making the CHA weapon attacks redundant brings Hexblade more in line with other subclasses.
I really hope they don't "fix" Hexblade. The concept has always been confusing and lame, and it was obviously just created for people who want to play sword warlocks but (understandably) find Pact of the Blade lame. Assuming Pact of the Blade is made to be no longer lame, the subclass serves practically no purpose. Fingers crossed, it'll be left in the dust.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Respectfully disagree. I personally found it nice for it's proficiencies, extra curse, and other non direct melee stuff. On top of yeah, the melee fixes, which I'm also glad to see folded into blade pact instead. I do agree that the concept was super confusingly written, but not unworkable. Either way, there is room to adjust it.
Not sure why you hope it will be dusted instead of updated to be less of a patch and more of it's own thing. Seems a bit of a rash take.
Oh for sure on the front-loaded issue. I mostly feel like the combo of it's core function being folded into base blade-pact plus the patron being put to level 3 means a rework and refactor of some of its structure may be in order.
The core thing I hope they keep in general is the part about this being the warlock knight type. I always felt like the original concept was leaning towards a sort of "dark Excaliber" vibe, or a proper Witch King style.
((Though as I said...seriously, rework its description. I liked what I THINK they were generally going for, but they need to refine that...))
If you like some of the mechanics, that's fine. The mechanics can go into other subclasses. I just find the core mechanical idea of the Hexblade (melee Warlock) to be redundant and the core flavor idea (I'm not even sure) to be very specific, incredibly confusing, and just not very interesting. I've seen far more reflavored Hexblades than ones that actually made a pact with a sentient weapon (or maybe they made a pact with the Raven Queen? Unclear).
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
My understanding is that 5.5e is basically a reset and everything before it should be considered variant content at best and needs selective adjustment to be usable with 5.5e without creating conflicts. Hexblade's CHA attack is redundant with the new Pact of the Blade, so it can either be adjusted or be taken as is, since the shell still works quite well (you still get medium armor, and wepaon prof, which you need for feats now along the hex stuff).
Improved Weapon isn't really needed tbh, since the power level stays the same at the table if all are treated equally (all martials get a +1/2/3).
Hex-Blade’s Curse could be made into a 5th level Invocation same with Accursed Specter.
Armor of Hexes can be a 9th level Invocation with Hex-Blade’s Curse as a prerequisite.
Master of Hexes can be a 13th level Invocation with Hex-Blade’s Curse as a prerequisite.
The medium armor and shield proficiencies can be obtained as a 1st level feat, taking Lessons of the First One’s as an Invocation, or when you get an ASI/Feat.
Well, yes, there are alternative ways to get all manner of things for all manner of classes. The benefit is in being able to use your feat slots for other feats/ stats as needed.
In any case, my original point was not that Hexblade should stay exactly as it is. Quite the opposite. I merely think that leaving it without adaptation that keeps the spirit of it (path for playing a Warlock knight type) would be unfortunate, and would feel like something cool would be lost. Even if it took a lot of work to fully understand the RP end of what Hexblade pacts even are, I ultimately found it quite intriguing and quite unique compared to the more standard paths.
Why can't "Warlock knights" be portrayed by the Pact of the Blade? They might not get medium armor proficiency by default any more, but it's easy enough to pick up that and shield proficiency by getting Moderately Armored with Lessons of the First Ones or just as the 1st level feat. Suddenly you've got a solid weapon, solid armor, and solid Warlock abilities. What more is there to a "Warlock knight?"
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
This is going in circles now, so I'll just let it be at the fact that I like aspects of the Hexblade package on a conceptual level. I get that I am probably one of the very few people who does, but that is where I was coming from.
(Not saying that to be snippy, I just legit don't know how else to phrase it right now that will actually further the discussion one way or another!).
In any case, I was more curious about the Improved Pact Weapon connotations and stuff going forward, which everyone summed up well enough. The only part I'm still (mostly idly) wondering about is the weapon-shunting part having been dropped. Like I said, that was more of a fun aspect of blade pact that always sounded neat (even if I've only ever had strictly RP circumstances to actually use it in). So I was wondering if it's being solidly dropped, or if it's omission was a mistake.
I'm not sure what you like about the Hexblade as a package, since you only mentioned their 1st level abilities. I find the Hexblade doesn't really gel as a class which is why its so rare to see straight Hexblades that go beyond 5th level - Accursed Specter is a really weird feature that doesn't have anything to do with hexing or blading, and Armour of Hexes is problematic from an encounter balance stand point because it is disproportionately powerful vs a solo BBEG whereas it is relatively weak in mass combats. While Master of Hexes is a quality of life fix that probably should come on line earlier except that it would highly just how unbalanced HBC is.
The new Pact of the Blade + Background Feat: Lightly Armoured captures the core of Hexblade, so I'd rather see new invocations that buff Hex rather than EB:
Hex Master 5th level Warlock, Hex spell
Taking damage cannot break your concentration on Hex. When you roll and attack against the target of your hex you get a critical hit on a 19 or 20.
Cloud of Hexes Hex spell
When a creature ends its turn within 10ft of you, you can use your reaction to cast Hex on them without expending a spell slot.
Deadly Hexes 14th level Warlock, Hex spell
The necrotic damage dealt by your Hex spell increases to 1d6+your proficiency bonus.
Respectfully disagree. I personally found it nice for it's proficiencies, extra curse, and other non direct melee stuff. On top of yeah, the melee fixes, which I'm also glad to see folded into blade pact instead. I do agree that the concept was super confusingly written, but not unworkable. Either way, there is room to adjust it.
Not sure why you hope it will be dusted instead of updated to be less of a patch and more of it's own thing. Seems a bit of a rash take.
The reality is that most players played hexblade to hit with char. That's why you see it especially in multiclasses.
Now there is no longer a need for that, so the subclass will certainly fall into oblivion. In fact, it no longer has much reason to exist.
Blade pact, on the other hand, is now incredibly good compared to the other pacts. I sense that it will be a must (unless they improve, at least, tome pact). But hey, since you can take them independently, whoever wants chain pact, for example, will choose blade pact because it is almost mandatory, and then chain pact.
This warlock is a terrible design, by the way. But I don't want to bring up that endless discussion again.
Tome Pact is also really, really good. So I think there is still two build/play options for warlock, you don't have to take Blade. A utility focused -lock (Fey or GOO) with Tome, Mask of Many Faces, the one that gives you at will invisibility, Chain Pact, Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast taking Warcaster, Spell Sniper and Actor or Inspiring Leader is still competitive with Blade Pact if you don't have a wizard in the party.
Are you seriously telling me that three cantrips, 2 level 1 spells (rituals), and 1 lvl1 spell slot per day seem like the same level as being able to attack with char? And that's not to mention that blade pact improves it a lot with Thirsting blade.
I frankly doubt that anything else will be played. If someone chooses the tome pact it will be as an addition. What you will see the most is a dip to warlock from paladin. And occasionally other dips. And the singleclass warlocks are going to go with pact blade + thirsting blade, except for some eccentrics.
Anyway, we shouldn't be surprised either. This is what is happening now with the hexblade.
Are you seriously telling me that three cantrips, 2 level 1 spells (rituals), and 1 lvl1 spell slot per day seem like the same level as being able to attack with char? And that's not to mention that blade pact improves it a lot with Thirsting blade.
I frankly doubt that anything else will be played. If someone chooses the tome pact it will be as an addition. What you will see the most is a dip to warlock from paladin. And occasionally other dips. And the singleclass warlocks are going to go with pact blade + thirsting blade, except for some eccentrics.
Anyway, we shouldn't be surprised either. This is what is happening now with the hexblade.
100% yes! 3 cantrips and 2 rituals that you can swap out on a SR is amazing utility. Meanwhile I can take Spell Sniper and attack using Char in melee just as well as a Blade-lock using my EB while being equally effective if I choose to shoot from 300 ft away.
I also disagree about Paladin dips. With the changes to weapon feats (in that they give you +1 STR) and the Heavy property (requiring 13 STR) means it is far less tempting to use CHA for your weapon attacks as you're going to have a pretty good STR anyway for your heavy armour and heavy weapons if you are going for melee DPR. It will only be tank-focused or support-focused paladins that will dip warlock for CHA weapon attacks, though I highly suspect all the weapon-y bards (Swords & Valor) will 100% be dipping warlock for CHA weapons & weapon masteries.
Are you seriously telling me that three cantrips, 2 level 1 spells (rituals), and 1 lvl1 spell slot per day seem like the same level as being able to attack with char? And that's not to mention that blade pact improves it a lot with Thirsting blade.
I frankly doubt that anything else will be played. If someone chooses the tome pact it will be as an addition. What you will see the most is a dip to warlock from paladin. And occasionally other dips. And the singleclass warlocks are going to go with pact blade + thirsting blade, except for some eccentrics.
Anyway, we shouldn't be surprised either. This is what is happening now with the hexblade.
100% yes! 3 cantrips and 2 rituals that you can swap out on a SR is amazing utility. Meanwhile I can take Spell Sniper and attack using Char in melee just as well as a Blade-lock using my EB while being equally effective if I choose to shoot from 300 ft away.
I also disagree about Paladin dips. With the changes to weapon feats (in that they give you +1 STR) and the Heavy property (requiring 13 STR) means it is far less tempting to use CHA for your weapon attacks as you're going to have a pretty good STR anyway for your heavy armour and heavy weapons if you are going for melee DPR. It will only be tank-focused or support-focused paladins that will dip warlock for CHA weapon attacks, though I highly suspect all the weapon-y bards (Swords & Valor) will 100% be dipping warlock for CHA weapons & weapon masteries.
I guess it depends on each person's experience. However, there are only a few commonly used lvl 1 ritual spells: Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic, and Find Familiar. If you want Find Familiar, you're going to go for chain pact. So that leaves Comprehend Languages and Detect Magic. Then, situationally, Alarm and Tenser's Floating Disk. Being able to change them in SR is nice, but to be honest, unless you need something specific for the situation, you're going to want Comprehend Languages and Detect Magic (or maybe Alarm if someone in your group already has one of those) almost your entire career. Tenser's Floating Disk will be used if you need to carry something, which is fine. Or you might even need Speak with Animals or Unseen Servant very situationally. That's okay, I'm not saying no. But it's also nothing that's going to change the game. Also, I played tomelock in the past and you could do that before with Book of Ancient Secrets. Even better, since you weren't limited to lvl1 (for example, I really like rituals like Augury or Leomund's Tiny Hut, and you can't have those anymore).
On the other hand, Eldritch Blast SPAM is something I'm downright tired of. I would like a warlock with more options. But anyway, that's a lost war. However, it doesn't matter. People are going to choose Agonizing Blast and Pact of the blade, both of them. In the same way as it's done now with the hexblade. In fact, do you know why Pact of the Blade now allows you to attack with Char? For people to play Warlock subclasses other than the hexblade. WoTC knows that all warlocks are going to choose Pact of the blade, but at least now we will see different subclasses. And that is why, despite the warlock's horrible chassis, they have put so much love into the subclasses presented in playtest 7. And that is why they have also designed the pacts in ways that you can choose more than one, so that another one can be played as well pact of the blade. Pact of the blade is a must, and the designers know it better than you and me.
I guess it depends on each person's experience. However, there are only a few commonly used lvl 1 ritual spells: Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic, and Find Familiar. If you want Find Familiar, you're going to go for chain pact. So that leaves Comprehend Languages and Detect Magic. Then, situationally, Alarm and Tenser's Floating Disk. Being able to change them in SR is nice, but to be honest, unless you need something specific for the situation, you're going to want Comprehend Languages and Detect Magic (or maybe Alarm if someone in your group already has one of those) almost your entire career. Tenser's Floating Disk will be used if you need to carry something, which is fine. Or you might even need Speak with Animals or Unseen Servant very situationally. That's okay, I'm not saying no. But it's also nothing that's going to change the game. Also, I played tomelock in the past and you could do that before with Book of Ancient Secrets. Even better, since you weren't limited to lvl1 (for example, I really like rituals like Augury or Leomund's Tiny Hut, and you can't have those anymore).
Speak with Animals is way more useful than Comprehend Languages because animals are everywhere so can tell you all kinds of stuff in all kinds of situations : could be witnesses of an attack, could have scouted out a enemy campsite, could know the safest route to get somewhere, plus you can use it to buff your animal handling checks whenever riding / controlling an animal, and you can potentially use it to recruit allies. Chain is way to limited, I'd rather take Tome first and get Find Familiar there and take Chain later in tier 2 when enemies start getting smarter and are more likely to attack a normal familiar.
Because you can swap them around, you only need to have Find Familiar in there when you need it same with Alarm, and the rest of the time have Speak with Animals, Detect Magic, Identify or Comprehend Languages in there depending on what you expect the day to bring. Other good ones can be Purify Food & Drink if your travelling through hostile terrain, or Unseen Servant if you're dungeon delving and need something to trigger traps (or to cross traps without setting them off). Floating Disk is occasionally useful as well, certainly not enough to be worth using a spell preparation on, but there are quite a few situations where it is useful if you have it on demand: e.g. the party needs to cross a lake of lava, you cast floating disk for the rest of the party to stand on then cast Fly on yourself and now everyone can make it across safely.
But it's the extra cantrips that are the best part of Pact of the Tome. A 1st level warlock only gets 2 and one of those is almost certainly Eldritch Blast. With Pact of the Tome you can have Friends (if you're doing an RP/social focused day), Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Resistance, Chill Touch (if fighting any enemy with health regen like a vampire or a troll), Blade Ward, Light (if you don't have darkvision), Gust (to disperse toxic gases), Mending (if you need to fix something), Mold Earth (if you need to dig somewhere), Sacred Flame (if fighting zombies), or Shillelagh (if you want a CHA weapon attack at level 1 plus all the other benefits of Tome), exactly when and where you need them. I'd personally have Guidance, Blade Ward and Friends as my defaults here, but it's really great to have all the rest available on demand.4
[At level 1, Tome is clearly the winner since you can get discount versions of both other pacts if you want them via Shillelagh and Find Familiar, plus get and extra spell slot, plus 2 more cantrips, plus 2 extra ritual spells]
Pact of the Blade demands way too much of your build to be viable. In order to keep up with martials you need to take PAM and use a polearm, you also need to take Warcaster (or Eldritch Mind) to be able to maintain Hex or Spirit Shroud, you also need Thirsting Blade. Plus to survive in melee you need to pick up the Lightly Armoured feat, and/or the Tough feat, and you'll want/need Blade Ward so that's your two cantrips locked up at level 1: Eldritch Blast, Blade Ward. If you want to be powerful then you'll need to MC into sorcerer for 3 levels to pick up Shield, Absorb Elements, and Misty Step as well as some lower level slots to cast them with, and you'll probably want GWM and/or Sentinel, you'll also probably want to pick up True Strike and/or Booming Blade for your Warcaster Opportunity attacks.
So this really means there is only 2 good warlock builds at level 5 according to you:
Species : Human -> this lets you pick up Lightly Armoured + Tough at 1st level Subclass: Fiend (for extra hp) or Fey (for maneuverability) Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Blade Ward, True Strike Spells: Hex, Armour of Agathys, Blur, Mirror Image, Spirit Shroud, Fly Invocations: Pact of the Blade, Agonizing Blast, Eldritch Mind, Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite Feats: PAM Pact Weapon: Halberd
In contrast, in exchange for losing the benefits of PAM, you could instead build around EB and have far more freedom: Feats: Spell Sniper Invocations: Agonizing Blast, Eldritch Mind, [3 free choices] Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Blade Ward, [free choice] Species: free choice Spells: Hex, Spirit Shroud [free choices]
In the latter case, you're also going to max out your CHA faster b/c you aren't taking any of the weapon feats.
Forgive me if I have misunderstood something, but...why would you need to pick lightly armored, warlocks have proficiency in light armor to start out with...
I've been pouring over the UA 7 packet (super late to the party...lots going on IRL), and while lots of it has me quite excited, I'm left wondering about two specific things with regards to Warlock:
Improved Pact Weapon and The Hexblade, both from Xanathar's.
I'm seeing that the new Pact of the Blade does a little bit out of both Improved Pact and Hexblade, in that it lets you use CHA and turns your pacted blade into a focus. However, I'm seeing that Blade Pact -doesn't- note anything about the enhancement bonus that the previous Invocation did. So I'm wondering if that bonus is going to be factored into Pact of the Blade as well down the line (maybe an "at level X you get +1" type thing), or if Improved Pact Weapon will get some kind of buff for its Focus aspect being switched out.
I was also not seeing any mention of how a pact-bound weapon counts as magical for the purposes of bypassing enemy resistances and immunities. Is that so on the assumption that switching your damage type is enough, or was this a mistake?
The adjustments being made to patrons coming at level 3 and blade pact in general also have a massive impact on The Hexblade patron. Not in that it's been invalidated per say (there's still tons of reasons to choose it over the other patrons), but it does seem like it warrants a heavy revisit with how much of the warlock's melee functions are being tweaked. I do hope that it at the least won't lose its armor and shield proficiency benefit (given that for me, those two things really make it stand out among the other patrons), and that something will be reworked with Hexwarrior so it's not just a massive redundancy with Pact of the Blade. (Though it enabling you to CHA bind a second weapon has always been a plus).
Will say this at least; re-writing its lore to be less obtuse/ confusingly laid out would be nice...
(Also, apologies if all of this has come up in the past/ if it's too late to have any thoughts at all about pack 7. First time posting in the UA threads).
EDIT: Oh! Also, noticed Pact of the Blade no longer lets you shunt off your weapon. This was always a function that had more RP benefit than anything, but I could also see situations where it would be beneficial. Was this also left out on purpose?
"Magical Weapon damage" is likely to be removed entirely and swapped in all associated features for some other dmg type. Here: ...you can cause the weapon to deal Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant damage or its normal damage type.
Hexblade got way too much on level 1 anyway. If anything, making the CHA weapon attacks redundant brings Hexblade more in line with other subclasses.
I really hope they don't "fix" Hexblade. The concept has always been confusing and lame, and it was obviously just created for people who want to play sword warlocks but (understandably) find Pact of the Blade lame. Assuming Pact of the Blade is made to be no longer lame, the subclass serves practically no purpose. Fingers crossed, it'll be left in the dust.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Respectfully disagree. I personally found it nice for it's proficiencies, extra curse, and other non direct melee stuff. On top of yeah, the melee fixes, which I'm also glad to see folded into blade pact instead. I do agree that the concept was super confusingly written, but not unworkable. Either way, there is room to adjust it.
Not sure why you hope it will be dusted instead of updated to be less of a patch and more of it's own thing. Seems a bit of a rash take.
Oh for sure on the front-loaded issue. I mostly feel like the combo of it's core function being folded into base blade-pact plus the patron being put to level 3 means a rework and refactor of some of its structure may be in order.
The core thing I hope they keep in general is the part about this being the warlock knight type. I always felt like the original concept was leaning towards a sort of "dark Excaliber" vibe, or a proper Witch King style.
((Though as I said...seriously, rework its description. I liked what I THINK they were generally going for, but they need to refine that...))
If you like some of the mechanics, that's fine. The mechanics can go into other subclasses. I just find the core mechanical idea of the Hexblade (melee Warlock) to be redundant and the core flavor idea (I'm not even sure) to be very specific, incredibly confusing, and just not very interesting. I've seen far more reflavored Hexblades than ones that actually made a pact with a sentient weapon (or maybe they made a pact with the Raven Queen? Unclear).
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
My understanding is that 5.5e is basically a reset and everything before it should be considered variant content at best and needs selective adjustment to be usable with 5.5e without creating conflicts. Hexblade's CHA attack is redundant with the new Pact of the Blade, so it can either be adjusted or be taken as is, since the shell still works quite well (you still get medium armor, and wepaon prof, which you need for feats now along the hex stuff).
Improved Weapon isn't really needed tbh, since the power level stays the same at the table if all are treated equally (all martials get a +1/2/3).
Hex-Blade’s Curse could be made into a 5th level Invocation same with Accursed Specter.
Armor of Hexes can be a 9th level Invocation with Hex-Blade’s Curse as a prerequisite.
Master of Hexes can be a 13th level Invocation with Hex-Blade’s Curse as a prerequisite.
The medium armor and shield proficiencies can be obtained as a 1st level feat, taking Lessons of the First One’s as an Invocation, or when you get an ASI/Feat.
Well, yes, there are alternative ways to get all manner of things for all manner of classes. The benefit is in being able to use your feat slots for other feats/ stats as needed.
In any case, my original point was not that Hexblade should stay exactly as it is. Quite the opposite. I merely think that leaving it without adaptation that keeps the spirit of it (path for playing a Warlock knight type) would be unfortunate, and would feel like something cool would be lost. Even if it took a lot of work to fully understand the RP end of what Hexblade pacts even are, I ultimately found it quite intriguing and quite unique compared to the more standard paths.
Why can't "Warlock knights" be portrayed by the Pact of the Blade? They might not get medium armor proficiency by default any more, but it's easy enough to pick up that and shield proficiency by getting Moderately Armored with Lessons of the First Ones or just as the 1st level feat. Suddenly you've got a solid weapon, solid armor, and solid Warlock abilities. What more is there to a "Warlock knight?"
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
This is going in circles now, so I'll just let it be at the fact that I like aspects of the Hexblade package on a conceptual level. I get that I am probably one of the very few people who does, but that is where I was coming from.
(Not saying that to be snippy, I just legit don't know how else to phrase it right now that will actually further the discussion one way or another!).
In any case, I was more curious about the Improved Pact Weapon connotations and stuff going forward, which everyone summed up well enough. The only part I'm still (mostly idly) wondering about is the weapon-shunting part having been dropped. Like I said, that was more of a fun aspect of blade pact that always sounded neat (even if I've only ever had strictly RP circumstances to actually use it in). So I was wondering if it's being solidly dropped, or if it's omission was a mistake.
I'm not sure what you like about the Hexblade as a package, since you only mentioned their 1st level abilities. I find the Hexblade doesn't really gel as a class which is why its so rare to see straight Hexblades that go beyond 5th level - Accursed Specter is a really weird feature that doesn't have anything to do with hexing or blading, and Armour of Hexes is problematic from an encounter balance stand point because it is disproportionately powerful vs a solo BBEG whereas it is relatively weak in mass combats. While Master of Hexes is a quality of life fix that probably should come on line earlier except that it would highly just how unbalanced HBC is.
The new Pact of the Blade + Background Feat: Lightly Armoured captures the core of Hexblade, so I'd rather see new invocations that buff Hex rather than EB:
Hex Master
5th level Warlock, Hex spell
Taking damage cannot break your concentration on Hex. When you roll and attack against the target of your hex you get a critical hit on a 19 or 20.
Cloud of Hexes
Hex spell
When a creature ends its turn within 10ft of you, you can use your reaction to cast Hex on them without expending a spell slot.
Deadly Hexes
14th level Warlock, Hex spell
The necrotic damage dealt by your Hex spell increases to 1d6+your proficiency bonus.
The reality is that most players played hexblade to hit with char. That's why you see it especially in multiclasses.
Now there is no longer a need for that, so the subclass will certainly fall into oblivion. In fact, it no longer has much reason to exist.
Blade pact, on the other hand, is now incredibly good compared to the other pacts. I sense that it will be a must (unless they improve, at least, tome pact). But hey, since you can take them independently, whoever wants chain pact, for example, will choose blade pact because it is almost mandatory, and then chain pact.
This warlock is a terrible design, by the way. But I don't want to bring up that endless discussion again.
Tome Pact is also really, really good. So I think there is still two build/play options for warlock, you don't have to take Blade. A utility focused -lock (Fey or GOO) with Tome, Mask of Many Faces, the one that gives you at will invisibility, Chain Pact, Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast taking Warcaster, Spell Sniper and Actor or Inspiring Leader is still competitive with Blade Pact if you don't have a wizard in the party.
Are you seriously telling me that three cantrips, 2 level 1 spells (rituals), and 1 lvl1 spell slot per day seem like the same level as being able to attack with char? And that's not to mention that blade pact improves it a lot with Thirsting blade.
I frankly doubt that anything else will be played. If someone chooses the tome pact it will be as an addition. What you will see the most is a dip to warlock from paladin. And occasionally other dips. And the singleclass warlocks are going to go with pact blade + thirsting blade, except for some eccentrics.
Anyway, we shouldn't be surprised either. This is what is happening now with the hexblade.
100% yes! 3 cantrips and 2 rituals that you can swap out on a SR is amazing utility. Meanwhile I can take Spell Sniper and attack using Char in melee just as well as a Blade-lock using my EB while being equally effective if I choose to shoot from 300 ft away.
I also disagree about Paladin dips. With the changes to weapon feats (in that they give you +1 STR) and the Heavy property (requiring 13 STR) means it is far less tempting to use CHA for your weapon attacks as you're going to have a pretty good STR anyway for your heavy armour and heavy weapons if you are going for melee DPR. It will only be tank-focused or support-focused paladins that will dip warlock for CHA weapon attacks, though I highly suspect all the weapon-y bards (Swords & Valor) will 100% be dipping warlock for CHA weapons & weapon masteries.
I guess it depends on each person's experience. However, there are only a few commonly used lvl 1 ritual spells: Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic, and Find Familiar. If you want Find Familiar, you're going to go for chain pact. So that leaves Comprehend Languages and Detect Magic. Then, situationally, Alarm and Tenser's Floating Disk. Being able to change them in SR is nice, but to be honest, unless you need something specific for the situation, you're going to want Comprehend Languages and Detect Magic (or maybe Alarm if someone in your group already has one of those) almost your entire career. Tenser's Floating Disk will be used if you need to carry something, which is fine. Or you might even need Speak with Animals or Unseen Servant very situationally. That's okay, I'm not saying no. But it's also nothing that's going to change the game. Also, I played tomelock in the past and you could do that before with Book of Ancient Secrets. Even better, since you weren't limited to lvl1 (for example, I really like rituals like Augury or Leomund's Tiny Hut, and you can't have those anymore).
On the other hand, Eldritch Blast SPAM is something I'm downright tired of. I would like a warlock with more options. But anyway, that's a lost war. However, it doesn't matter. People are going to choose Agonizing Blast and Pact of the blade, both of them. In the same way as it's done now with the hexblade. In fact, do you know why Pact of the Blade now allows you to attack with Char? For people to play Warlock subclasses other than the hexblade. WoTC knows that all warlocks are going to choose Pact of the blade, but at least now we will see different subclasses. And that is why, despite the warlock's horrible chassis, they have put so much love into the subclasses presented in playtest 7. And that is why they have also designed the pacts in ways that you can choose more than one, so that another one can be played as well pact of the blade. Pact of the blade is a must, and the designers know it better than you and me.
Speak with Animals is way more useful than Comprehend Languages because animals are everywhere so can tell you all kinds of stuff in all kinds of situations : could be witnesses of an attack, could have scouted out a enemy campsite, could know the safest route to get somewhere, plus you can use it to buff your animal handling checks whenever riding / controlling an animal, and you can potentially use it to recruit allies. Chain is way to limited, I'd rather take Tome first and get Find Familiar there and take Chain later in tier 2 when enemies start getting smarter and are more likely to attack a normal familiar.
Because you can swap them around, you only need to have Find Familiar in there when you need it same with Alarm, and the rest of the time have Speak with Animals, Detect Magic, Identify or Comprehend Languages in there depending on what you expect the day to bring. Other good ones can be Purify Food & Drink if your travelling through hostile terrain, or Unseen Servant if you're dungeon delving and need something to trigger traps (or to cross traps without setting them off). Floating Disk is occasionally useful as well, certainly not enough to be worth using a spell preparation on, but there are quite a few situations where it is useful if you have it on demand: e.g. the party needs to cross a lake of lava, you cast floating disk for the rest of the party to stand on then cast Fly on yourself and now everyone can make it across safely.
But it's the extra cantrips that are the best part of Pact of the Tome. A 1st level warlock only gets 2 and one of those is almost certainly Eldritch Blast. With Pact of the Tome you can have Friends (if you're doing an RP/social focused day), Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Guidance, Resistance, Chill Touch (if fighting any enemy with health regen like a vampire or a troll), Blade Ward, Light (if you don't have darkvision), Gust (to disperse toxic gases), Mending (if you need to fix something), Mold Earth (if you need to dig somewhere), Sacred Flame (if fighting zombies), or Shillelagh (if you want a CHA weapon attack at level 1 plus all the other benefits of Tome), exactly when and where you need them. I'd personally have Guidance, Blade Ward and Friends as my defaults here, but it's really great to have all the rest available on demand.4
[At level 1, Tome is clearly the winner since you can get discount versions of both other pacts if you want them via Shillelagh and Find Familiar, plus get and extra spell slot, plus 2 more cantrips, plus 2 extra ritual spells]
Pact of the Blade demands way too much of your build to be viable. In order to keep up with martials you need to take PAM and use a polearm, you also need to take Warcaster (or Eldritch Mind) to be able to maintain Hex or Spirit Shroud, you also need Thirsting Blade. Plus to survive in melee you need to pick up the Lightly Armoured feat, and/or the Tough feat, and you'll want/need Blade Ward so that's your two cantrips locked up at level 1: Eldritch Blast, Blade Ward. If you want to be powerful then you'll need to MC into sorcerer for 3 levels to pick up Shield, Absorb Elements, and Misty Step as well as some lower level slots to cast them with, and you'll probably want GWM and/or Sentinel, you'll also probably want to pick up True Strike and/or Booming Blade for your Warcaster Opportunity attacks.
So this really means there is only 2 good warlock builds at level 5 according to you:
Species : Human -> this lets you pick up Lightly Armoured + Tough at 1st level
Subclass: Fiend (for extra hp) or Fey (for maneuverability)
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Blade Ward, True Strike
Spells: Hex, Armour of Agathys, Blur, Mirror Image, Spirit Shroud, Fly
Invocations: Pact of the Blade, Agonizing Blast, Eldritch Mind, Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite
Feats: PAM
Pact Weapon: Halberd
In contrast, in exchange for losing the benefits of PAM, you could instead build around EB and have far more freedom:
Feats: Spell Sniper
Invocations: Agonizing Blast, Eldritch Mind, [3 free choices]
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Blade Ward, [free choice]
Species: free choice
Spells: Hex, Spirit Shroud [free choices]
In the latter case, you're also going to max out your CHA faster b/c you aren't taking any of the weapon feats.
Forgive me if I have misunderstood something, but...why would you need to pick lightly armored, warlocks have proficiency in light armor to start out with...
The new Lightly Armoured Feat gives proficiency in Light, Medium and Shields.