When the playtest started, the first document had this lvl1 feat called Magic Initiate wich let you choose 2 cantrips and one lvl 1 spell from the arcane, divine or primal spell lists. As of the Playtest 7 document, the lists are gone, and "all spellcasting classes return to using their own list". Soo... what happens if i'd want to update a character or change a spell? As per the feat description, when a character lvls up, they "can replace one of the Spells you chose for this Feat with a different Spell of the same level from the chosen Spell list." So now that the spells lists are gone... what? Do i choose a class from which to select those spells? Is there any official note about it that i missed?
I'd say to revert back to the original, and current version of the feat, where you choose a specific class instead of a spell list.
This, though I'd probably include the ability to cast using spell slots without having to choose a spell list you already know; that was the direction of travel on newer feats anyway, and seemed to be the intention with playtest versions as well.
Off-topic really, but I do hope they bring back the three main spell lists; I know some classes might still need like an "extra Wizard spells" list or whatever but it'd still be easier than having to look up entirely separate lists for every class again IMO. I've asked for it back in every feedback survey I've done since they dropped it, and will continue to do so. 😉
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1) like the old version of the Feat, revert to picking the cantrips and one 1st level spell from a class spell list (from a class that has cantrips, so basically add Artificer, IMO).
2) like all versions of the Feat, you can cast the 1st level spell one time without using a spell slot. This recharges after you complete a long rest.
3) like the new version of the Feat (and most recent feats that grant a leveled spell): you can also use spell slots to cast the 1st level spell.
4) like the new version of the Feat, you still pick your spellcasting ability for these spells from Int/Wis/Cha. It is not tied to the class list you picked.
The problem I see coming up is the new cantrip and 1st level sorcerer spell that were supposed to be sorcerer exclusive that are now going to be “must have” for casters. Anyone can get Sorcerous Blast via MI, if MI is based on class lists instead of the no-longer-existent unified spell lists. Which means you can easily get a multi-energy cantrip (Sorcerous Blast) instead of being stuck with a single-energy cantrip (Fire Bolt, etc.). Why wouldn’t every caster pick MI to pick up Sorcerous Blast and Shield?
Personally I think the relevant ability should still be fixed by class list; the point is that you’re doing a little bit of the kind of magic that class does, right? Ergo, the spell should be on the same wavelength. Also, as I’ve said in Bastion discussions, it should give use of the relevant focus as a way help cover additional pre-reqs on facilities.
1) like the old version of the Feat, revert to picking the cantrips and one 1st level spell from a class spell list (from a class that has cantrips, so basically add Artificer, IMO).
2) like all versions of the Feat, you can cast the 1st level spell one time without using a spell slot. This recharges after you complete a long rest.
3) like the new version of the Feat (and most recent feats that grant a leveled spell): you can also use spell slots to cast the 1st level spell.
4) like the new version of the Feat, you still pick your spellcasting ability for these spells from Int/Wis/Cha. It is not tied to the class list you picked.
Personally I think the relevant ability should still be fixed by class list; the point is that you’re doing a little bit of the kind of magic that class does, right? Ergo, the spell should be on the same wavelength. Also, as I’ve said in Bastion discussions, it should give use of the relevant focus as a way help cover additional pre-reqs on facilities.
They've moved away from this legacy "you're locked to one ability score for bonus spells" design. See also Strixhaven Initiate, Initiate of High Sorcery, Rune Shaper and Scion of the Outer Planes, as well as every racial spell in MPMM.
1) like the old version of the Feat, revert to picking the cantrips and one 1st level spell from a class spell list (from a class that has cantrips, so basically add Artificer, IMO).
2) like all versions of the Feat, you can cast the 1st level spell one time without using a spell slot. This recharges after you complete a long rest.
3) like the new version of the Feat (and most recent feats that grant a leveled spell): you can also use spell slots to cast the 1st level spell.
4) like the new version of the Feat, you still pick your spellcasting ability for these spells from Int/Wis/Cha. It is not tied to the class list you picked.
Personally I think the relevant ability should still be fixed by class list; the point is that you’re doing a little bit of the kind of magic that class does, right? Ergo, the spell should be on the same wavelength. Also, as I’ve said in Bastion discussions, it should give use of the relevant focus as a way help cover additional pre-reqs on facilities.
They've moved away from this legacy "you're locked to one ability score for bonus spells" design. See also Strixhaven Initiate, Initiate of High Sorcery, Rune Shaper and Scion of the Outer Planes, as well as every racial spell in MPMM.
I’ve seen them, but none of those are explicitly based around a class spell list. They’re giving you either fixed or very limited arrays of spells to pick from, thus keeping the ability score fluid helps balance it for the build. Magic Initiate gives a much larger pool, for one, and as I said it also is thematically appropriate to keep the casting stat in the family when the point of the feat is to represent level 0 proficiency in a particular class’ spellcasting, rather than the more “wild magic” connotations all the racial features and about half the feats represent.
I’ve seen them, but none of those are explicitly based around a class spell list. They’re giving you either fixed or very limited arrays of spells to pick from, thus keeping the ability score fluid helps balance it for the build. Magic Initiate gives a much larger pool, for one, and as I said it also is thematically appropriate to keep the casting stat in the family when the point of the feat is to represent level 0 proficiency in a particular class’ spellcasting, rather than the more “wild magic” connotations all the racial features and about half the feats represent.
Regardless of the pool size, they're still 1st-level spells and cantrips at the end of the day. I don't think choosing your casting stat is game-breaking for any of them, so long as they keep things like Eldritch Blast from being available that way (or at least from scaling with non-warlock levels like they had it before UA7.)
1) like the old version of the Feat, revert to picking the cantrips and one 1st level spell from a class spell list (from a class that has cantrips, so basically add Artificer, IMO).
2) like all versions of the Feat, you can cast the 1st level spell one time without using a spell slot. This recharges after you complete a long rest.
3) like the new version of the Feat (and most recent feats that grant a leveled spell): you can also use spell slots to cast the 1st level spell.
4) like the new version of the Feat, you still pick your spellcasting ability for these spells from Int/Wis/Cha. It is not tied to the class list you picked.
Personally I think the relevant ability should still be fixed by class list; the point is that you’re doing a little bit of the kind of magic that class does, right? Ergo, the spell should be on the same wavelength. Also, as I’ve said in Bastion discussions, it should give use of the relevant focus as a way help cover additional pre-reqs on facilities.
They've moved away from this legacy "you're locked to one ability score for bonus spells" design. See also Strixhaven Initiate, Initiate of High Sorcery, Rune Shaper and Scion of the Outer Planes, as well as every racial spell in MPMM.
I’ve seen them, but none of those are explicitly based around a class spell list. They’re giving you either fixed or very limited arrays of spells to pick from, thus keeping the ability score fluid helps balance it for the build. Magic Initiate gives a much larger pool, for one, and as I said it also is thematically appropriate to keep the casting stat in the family when the point of the feat is to represent level 0 proficiency in a particular class’ spellcasting, rather than the more “wild magic” connotations all the racial features and about half the feats represent.
Not exactly. Strixhaven Initiate is more narrow on the cantrip selection, but twice as broad on the 1st level spell selection (letting you pick from 2 different classes, depending on your school).
My gut says Magic Initiate will remain a 1st-level feat with no stat bump. It'll let you cast the 1st-level spell beyond the one free daily use by using your spell slots. And you'll be able to swap one of the spell choices on each level-up. It might even become repeatable, with the requirement that you pick a different class each time. As for the casting stat, if it's going back to "you learn a little bit of one class' magic", I think I'd want the casting stat to be locked to your class choice, it feels more appropriate. It's bad enough that we're going back to Bards and Sorcerers snagging Eldritch Blast willy-nilly, do we really need Wizards, Druids and Clerics doing it too? :)
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When the playtest started, the first document had this lvl1 feat called Magic Initiate wich let you choose 2 cantrips and one lvl 1 spell from the arcane, divine or primal spell lists. As of the Playtest 7 document, the lists are gone, and "all spellcasting classes return to using their own list". Soo... what happens if i'd want to update a character or change a spell? As per the feat description, when a character lvls up, they "can replace one of the Spells you chose for this Feat with a different Spell of the same level from the chosen Spell list." So now that the spells lists are gone... what? Do i choose a class from which to select those spells? Is there any official note about it that i missed?
I'd say to revert back to the original, and current version of the feat, where you choose a specific class instead of a spell list.
This, though I'd probably include the ability to cast using spell slots without having to choose a spell list you already know; that was the direction of travel on newer feats anyway, and seemed to be the intention with playtest versions as well.
Off-topic really, but I do hope they bring back the three main spell lists; I know some classes might still need like an "extra Wizard spells" list or whatever but it'd still be easier than having to look up entirely separate lists for every class again IMO. I've asked for it back in every feedback survey I've done since they dropped it, and will continue to do so. 😉
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
IMO:
1) like the old version of the Feat, revert to picking the cantrips and one 1st level spell from a class spell list (from a class that has cantrips, so basically add Artificer, IMO).
2) like all versions of the Feat, you can cast the 1st level spell one time without using a spell slot. This recharges after you complete a long rest.
3) like the new version of the Feat (and most recent feats that grant a leveled spell): you can also use spell slots to cast the 1st level spell.
4) like the new version of the Feat, you still pick your spellcasting ability for these spells from Int/Wis/Cha. It is not tied to the class list you picked.
The problem I see coming up is the new cantrip and 1st level sorcerer spell that were supposed to be sorcerer exclusive that are now going to be “must have” for casters. Anyone can get Sorcerous Blast via MI, if MI is based on class lists instead of the no-longer-existent unified spell lists. Which means you can easily get a multi-energy cantrip (Sorcerous Blast) instead of being stuck with a single-energy cantrip (Fire Bolt, etc.). Why wouldn’t every caster pick MI to pick up Sorcerous Blast and Shield?
Personally I think the relevant ability should still be fixed by class list; the point is that you’re doing a little bit of the kind of magic that class does, right? Ergo, the spell should be on the same wavelength. Also, as I’ve said in Bastion discussions, it should give use of the relevant focus as a way help cover additional pre-reqs on facilities.
All of this.
They've moved away from this legacy "you're locked to one ability score for bonus spells" design. See also Strixhaven Initiate, Initiate of High Sorcery, Rune Shaper and Scion of the Outer Planes, as well as every racial spell in MPMM.
I’ve seen them, but none of those are explicitly based around a class spell list. They’re giving you either fixed or very limited arrays of spells to pick from, thus keeping the ability score fluid helps balance it for the build. Magic Initiate gives a much larger pool, for one, and as I said it also is thematically appropriate to keep the casting stat in the family when the point of the feat is to represent level 0 proficiency in a particular class’ spellcasting, rather than the more “wild magic” connotations all the racial features and about half the feats represent.
Speaking of Magic Initiate-esque feats, where would you place Artificer Initiate and Eldritch Adept?
Would you slap a +1 Attribute on them and call them a Lvl 4+ Feat, or take them as is and put them in the Lvl 1 bracket?
Well, judging by Cartomancer, not every level 4 has a +1; honestly I’d probably put those two in the same category.
Regardless of the pool size, they're still 1st-level spells and cantrips at the end of the day. I don't think choosing your casting stat is game-breaking for any of them, so long as they keep things like Eldritch Blast from being available that way (or at least from scaling with non-warlock levels like they had it before UA7.)
1st-level for both imo (but the latter would still require the Spellcasting or Pact Magic features.)
Not exactly. Strixhaven Initiate is more narrow on the cantrip selection, but twice as broad on the 1st level spell selection (letting you pick from 2 different classes, depending on your school).
My gut says Magic Initiate will remain a 1st-level feat with no stat bump. It'll let you cast the 1st-level spell beyond the one free daily use by using your spell slots. And you'll be able to swap one of the spell choices on each level-up. It might even become repeatable, with the requirement that you pick a different class each time. As for the casting stat, if it's going back to "you learn a little bit of one class' magic", I think I'd want the casting stat to be locked to your class choice, it feels more appropriate. It's bad enough that we're going back to Bards and Sorcerers snagging Eldritch Blast willy-nilly, do we really need Wizards, Druids and Clerics doing it too? :)