Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I was expecting FoB being independant from the Attack action, so this is nice. What I wasn't expecting was an independant bonus action unarmed strike and I don't know how to feel about it, I guess it's fine, though I wouldn't expect it to survive till the official version, since any action (namely Dodge) + 1 attack per turn, available since level 1 could encourage multiclassing into monk (luckily, monk now has a worthy reason to go all the way to level 20).
I would care more about losing Weapon Mastery as a class feature if they scaled on their own without needing to be a fighter, and the ones available to monk are not that good (except for Nick, maybe), instead monk can use the "Unarmed Masteries" (Grapple and Shove) using Dex now, so it evens out I guess (granted, it takes damage away, but more attempts per turn is fine).
Uncanny Metabolism does help with DP shortage, though I understand why some people may have wanted additional DP or a way to recover DP mid-battle rather than at the start of another one. Now Perfect Discipline... can be used, mainly by Elements (if they spam Burst every turn), it's not really hard to burn through your DP (and the new Stunning Strike does incentivize an attempt per turn), but it may be hard to resort to Perfect Discipline if Uncanny Metabolism is still available, if the DP limit was higher (like 8), then it may be used more often.
Deflect Attacks was something many people were hoping for, but now that the additional bonus strike is not tied to the Attack action, monk can play very defensively with Unarmed Strike (BA) + Dodge (Main action) + Deflect (Reaction if hit). Keep in mind though, this does not cost DP, using DP a monk can add Stunning Strike and use FoB to have both offense and defense.
Finally, Body and Mind gives players a reason not to multiclass out of monk, interestingly, I kinda had the same idea for a monk capstone, however I didn't foresee WotC allowing players to go past an score of 20 with that last ASI, so a Max of 26 in either Dex or Wis and 24 in the other is a fairly good feature.
Overall, I like this version, though I still think Shadow is the best monk subclass, Hand got improved mainly due to the changes to the base class, and Elements can now spam Burst as much as it wants.
I was expecting FoB being independant from the Attack action, so this is nice. What I wasn't expecting was an independant bonus action unarmed strike and I don't know how to feel about it, I guess it's fine, though I wouldn't expect it to survive till the official version, since any action (namely Dodge) + 1 attack per turn, available since level 1 could encourage multiclassing into monk (luckily, monk now has a worthy reason to go all the way to level 20).
I would care more about losing Weapon Mastery as a class feature if they scaled on their own without needing to be a fighter, and the ones available to monk are not that good (except for Nick, maybe), instead monk can use the "Unarmed Masteries" (Grapple and Shove) using Dex now, so it evens out I guess (granted, it takes damage away, but more attempts per turn is fine).
Uncanny Metabolism does help with DP shortage, though I understand why some people may have wanted additional DP or a way to recover DP mid-battle rather than at the start of another one. Now Perfect Discipline... can be used, mainly by Elements (if they spam Burst every turn), it's not really hard to burn through your DP (and the new Stunning Strike does incentivize an attempt per turn), but it may be hard to resort to Perfect Discipline if Uncanny Metabolism is still available, if the DP limit was higher (like 8), then it may be used more often.
Deflect Attacks was something many people were hoping for, but now that the additional bonus strike is not tied to the Attack action, monk can play very defensively with Unarmed Strike (BA) + Dodge (Main action) + Deflect (Reaction if hit). Keep in mind though, this does not cost DP, using DP a monk can add Stunning Strike and use FoB to have both offense and defense.
Finally, Body and Mind gives players a reason not to multiclass out of monk, interestingly, I kinda had the same idea for a monk capstone, however I didn't foresee WotC allowing players to go past an score of 20 with that last ASI, so a Max of 26 in either Dex or Wis and 24 in the other is a fairly good feature.
Overall, I like this version, though I still think Shadow is the best monk subclass, Hand got improved mainly due to the changes to the base class, and Elements can now spam Burst as much as it wants.
people might want to one level dip for monk, but it would mostly be melee pure mages, because it requires you to wear no armor or shields. And how many mages really want to melee, or use their BA to melee?
Having tested this class, imo the only reason it works is because they decoupled BA from attacks, it creates the interesting choices in the class, and really makes it work. Without it, it would be really monotonous without expanded mastery. I was able to do things like hide in my shadow, so they have no idea where I am. (BA attack, then hide) Mercy monk took healer and could battlemedic + attack, or Battlemedic + heal. Or Action heal+Flurry heal. Elements took green flame, and could set up two guys and Green flame blade, then attack. Obvious one was OH topple before attacks. Being able to give up action or BA action depending on situation added a depth it needed.
Perfect discipline.... is not too useful, mostly because at level 15, having less than 4 ki Should almost never happen. If you play that way, you aren't very useful in that fight, and probably should have either rested, or conserved. But its not the end of the world, many of those low resource on initiative features are hard to use.
Hand... Is really living off the strong base class. The main thing it offers is allowing you to get the topple+grappler feat combo off before level 8. But overall, you'd be better off picking a different sub class and MC fighter 1 level, unless the game is going to reach 20. and even then, its probably a more interesting choice, though numerically the level 20 is hard to beat. But the concept is fun. I just think it needs to stand out more with its level 3
Elements, works really well with a separated BA imo, its fun when you get some advantage manipulating enemies, but sometimes when there isnt a reason, can feel slightly monotonous, but thats ok.
mercy feels a bit ehhh now. Mostly because the other options have improved in entertainment. Its useful, but partially due to its nature of saving Ki for heals, it often had uninteresting turns.
Shadow, most of the fun is manipulating the shadows position to minimize negatives, and maximize positives. But I wonder if its too one trick ponyish. The teleport seems like it will rarely be worth the BA use. Cool sometimes kinda feature, and it uses two features to get there. this means the level 3 is still the defining gameplay until 17. Thats a long time. And also Devil Sight/truesight is like, you got nothing. In avernus, for example, you will almost always be a plain monk.
Interestingly, I think your racial choices and feats and possibly MC are really a big deal, since you get no masteries, those choices are really what completes most of these char concepts. Like OH without grappler is like.. incomplete. Goliath hill giant auto prone grappler is like, what the subclass work imo. Not sure my mercy monk would feel like a doctor before 11 without healer feat. (though I houseruled it so the reroll one works on ki, but mostly its battlemedic)
I was expecting FoB being independant from the Attack action, so this is nice. What I wasn't expecting was an independant bonus action unarmed strike and I don't know how to feel about it, I guess it's fine, though I wouldn't expect it to survive till the official version, since any action (namely Dodge) + 1 attack per turn, available since level 1 could encourage multiclassing into monk (luckily, monk now has a worthy reason to go all the way to level 20).
I would care more about losing Weapon Mastery as a class feature if they scaled on their own without needing to be a fighter, and the ones available to monk are not that good (except for Nick, maybe), instead monk can use the "Unarmed Masteries" (Grapple and Shove) using Dex now, so it evens out I guess (granted, it takes damage away, but more attempts per turn is fine).
Uncanny Metabolism does help with DP shortage, though I understand why some people may have wanted additional DP or a way to recover DP mid-battle rather than at the start of another one. Now Perfect Discipline... can be used, mainly by Elements (if they spam Burst every turn), it's not really hard to burn through your DP (and the new Stunning Strike does incentivize an attempt per turn), but it may be hard to resort to Perfect Discipline if Uncanny Metabolism is still available, if the DP limit was higher (like 8), then it may be used more often.
Deflect Attacks was something many people were hoping for, but now that the additional bonus strike is not tied to the Attack action, monk can play very defensively with Unarmed Strike (BA) + Dodge (Main action) + Deflect (Reaction if hit). Keep in mind though, this does not cost DP, using DP a monk can add Stunning Strike and use FoB to have both offense and defense.
Finally, Body and Mind gives players a reason not to multiclass out of monk, interestingly, I kinda had the same idea for a monk capstone, however I didn't foresee WotC allowing players to go past an score of 20 with that last ASI, so a Max of 26 in either Dex or Wis and 24 in the other is a fairly good feature.
Overall, I like this version, though I still think Shadow is the best monk subclass, Hand got improved mainly due to the changes to the base class, and Elements can now spam Burst as much as it wants.
people might want to one level dip for monk, but it would mostly be melee pure mages, because it requires you to wear no armor or shields. And how many mages really want to melee, or use their BA to melee?
Having tested this class, imo the only reason it works is because they decoupled BA from attacks, it creates the interesting choices in the class, and really makes it work. Without it, it would be really monotonous without expanded mastery. I was able to do things like hide in my shadow, so they have no idea where I am. (BA attack, then hide) Mercy monk took healer and could battlemedic + attack, or Battlemedic + heal. Or Action heal+Flurry heal. Elements took green flame, and could set up two guys and Green flame blade, then attack. Obvious one was OH topple before attacks. Being able to give up action or BA action depending on situation added a depth it needed.
Perfect discipline.... is not too useful, mostly because at level 15, having less than 4 ki Should almost never happen. If you play that way, you aren't very useful in that fight, and probably should have either rested, or conserved. But its not the end of the world, many of those low resource on initiative features are hard to use.
Hand... Is really living off the strong base class. The main thing it offers is allowing you to get the topple+grappler feat combo off before level 8. But overall, you'd be better off picking a different sub class and MC fighter 1 level, unless the game is going to reach 20. and even then, its probably a more interesting choice, though numerically the level 20 is hard to beat. But the concept is fun. I just think it needs to stand out more with its level 3
Elements, works really well with a separated BA imo, its fun when you get some advantage manipulating enemies, but sometimes when there isnt a reason, can feel slightly monotonous, but thats ok.
mercy feels a bit ehhh now. Mostly because the other options have improved in entertainment. Its useful, but partially due to its nature of saving Ki for heals, it often had uninteresting turns.
Shadow, most of the fun is manipulating the shadows position to minimize negatives, and maximize positives. But I wonder if its too one trick ponyish. The teleport seems like it will rarely be worth the BA use. Cool sometimes kinda feature, and it uses two features to get there. this means the level 3 is still the defining gameplay until 17. Thats a long time. And also Devil Sight/truesight is like, you got nothing. In avernus, for example, you will almost always be a plain monk.
Interestingly, I think your racial choices and feats and possibly MC are really a big deal, since you get no masteries, those choices are really what completes most of these char concepts. Like OH without grappler is like.. incomplete. Goliath hill giant auto prone grappler is like, what the subclass work imo. Not sure my mercy monk would feel like a doctor before 11 without healer feat. (though I houseruled it so the reroll one works on ki, but mostly its battlemedic)
Any how its mostly a big improvement imo.
Feel the same about Open Hand Monk’s OHT. I put in my survey I was very satisfied with the monk base class and satisfied with Hand. But I did write that where OHT was a good feature in 2014 and unique, once Weapon Masteries was introduced it was just too similar to what so many others can now do. And at no cost. So keep Addle and maybe introduce additional or replacement options or maybe decouple OHT from FoB.
I like the changes and hope not much gets discarded at the chopping block when it goes to print. But we shall see.
I think a very telling thing is that, outside of a rare few individual discussions, none of the OneD&D forums or subforums are actually discussing how the OneD&D Monk or its subclasses could be built or played. No actual hype for playing the OneD&D Monk, no playtest testimonials, no build theories. Any interest in the class just...faded almost immediately, and focus went to the Druid and Barbarian. Discussions of Monk features that are rendered entirely inconsequential due to Weapon Mastery or other features are largely ignored. Heck, many YouTubers who rallied their followers to harass and brigade the creators over Monk "nerfs" haven't even made any videos focused on the UA9 Monk.
Anyway, I've been playing a Drunken Master and it's the perfect example of how many Monk subclasses have zero use whatsoever for a point-free Disengage BA because they already have features baked into the class that support repositioning and mobility without sacrificing damage output, and that the number of times you end up in situations where you desperately need to Disengage that aren't a direct result of player foolishness are in fact rare. And that Monks are entirely viable standing in melee alongside Fighters and Paladins, even if they have five fewer hit points or one less AC.
Monk is much better. im sorry that makes you sad. merry christmas anyways . also im super psyched for the new monk I said as much on my survey. wait for the feedback video from wotc
I think a very telling thing is that, outside of a rare few individual discussions, none of the OneD&D forums or subforums are actually discussing how the OneD&D Monk or its subclasses could be built or played. No actual hype for playing the OneD&D Monk, no playtest testimonials, no build theories. Any interest in the class just...faded almost immediately, and focus went to the Druid and Barbarian. Discussions of Monk features that are rendered entirely inconsequential due to Weapon Mastery or other features are largely ignored. Heck, many YouTubers who rallied their followers to harass and brigade the creators over Monk "nerfs" haven't even made any videos focused on the UA9 Monk.
And what exactly are you expecting? The latest UA is well designed. Do you really need 8 videos saying the same thing for you to believe that to be the case? When most people like a thing, lack of debate is normal.
I think a very telling thing is that, outside of a rare few individual discussions, none of the OneD&D forums or subforums are actually discussing how the OneD&D Monk or its subclasses could be built or played. No actual hype for playing the OneD&D Monk, no playtest testimonials, no build theories. Any interest in the class just...faded almost immediately, and focus went to the Druid and Barbarian. Discussions of Monk features that are rendered entirely inconsequential due to Weapon Mastery or other features are largely ignored. Heck, many YouTubers who rallied their followers to harass and brigade the creators over Monk "nerfs" haven't even made any videos focused on the UA9 Monk.
Anyway, I've been playing a Drunken Master and it's the perfect example of how many Monk subclasses have zero use whatsoever for a point-free Disengage BA because they already have features baked into the class that support repositioning and mobility without sacrificing damage output, and that the number of times you end up in situations where you desperately need to Disengage that aren't a direct result of player foolishness are in fact rare. And that Monks are entirely viable standing in melee alongside Fighters and Paladins, even if they have five fewer hit points or one less AC.
You are always free to play the 2014 Monk and Monk subclasses. I think you are very swiftly going to realize that you are in a tiny minority if this gets published without revisions.
Monk just became a 20 level class, or at worst the class where you dip one level of something else for a specific feature and then finish Monk to completion. The reason people aren't making build videos is because as-is, it is very hard to make a bad UA8 Monk. And nobody wants to create an inadvertent scenario where it gets nerfed into the ground when it has so many exciting new features. Also, it's unclear if 1DD classes will be allowed to multiclass with 2014 classes, so there aren't many build guides for any UA classes that haven't been confirmed as "finished."
I mean you want to see a bad UA8 class or subclass right now? Look at the poor Moon Druid. All of its new combat features are built around Multiattack, but of the known Moon Druid combat forms all of the existing land animals with Multiattack are bears that come online before level 10. The UA7 Bard couldn't even be playtested because its spell list had been removed from the game in UA6 with the removal of the Arcane/Divine/Primal lists. Nobody know if Barbarians in UA8 can have advantage when using Brutal Strike.
I think a very telling thing is that, outside of a rare few individual discussions, none of the OneD&D forums or subforums are actually discussing how the OneD&D Monk or its subclasses could be built or played. No actual hype for playing the OneD&D Monk, no playtest testimonials, no build theories. Any interest in the class just...faded almost immediately, and focus went to the Druid and Barbarian. Discussions of Monk features that are rendered entirely inconsequential due to Weapon Mastery or other features are largely ignored. Heck, many YouTubers who rallied their followers to harass and brigade the creators over Monk "nerfs" haven't even made any videos focused on the UA9 Monk.
Anyway, I've been playing a Drunken Master and it's the perfect example of how many Monk subclasses have zero use whatsoever for a point-free Disengage BA because they already have features baked into the class that support repositioning and mobility without sacrificing damage output, and that the number of times you end up in situations where you desperately need to Disengage that aren't a direct result of player foolishness are in fact rare. And that Monks are entirely viable standing in melee alongside Fighters and Paladins, even if they have five fewer hit points or one less AC.
So you’ve been playing a Drunken Master that hasn’t been revised so we don’t know if that free disengage will still be there when they do revise it. I’m assuming it will be, but who knows. And now that FoB does not need the Attack Action you can get that free disengage on DM with more flexibility.
And giving players an option, like a point free disengage or a point cost disengage with damage seems like a good thing. If you don’t have the point to use FoB I guess you should be boned?
I think a very telling thing is that, outside of a rare few individual discussions, none of the OneD&D forums or subforums are actually discussing how the OneD&D Monk or its subclasses could be built or played. No actual hype for playing the OneD&D Monk, no playtest testimonials, no build theories. Any interest in the class just...faded almost immediately, and focus went to the Druid and Barbarian. Discussions of Monk features that are rendered entirely inconsequential due to Weapon Mastery or other features are largely ignored. Heck, many YouTubers who rallied their followers to harass and brigade the creators over Monk "nerfs" haven't even made any videos focused on the UA9 Monk.
Anyway, I've been playing a Drunken Master and it's the perfect example of how many Monk subclasses have zero use whatsoever for a point-free Disengage BA because they already have features baked into the class that support repositioning and mobility without sacrificing damage output, and that the number of times you end up in situations where you desperately need to Disengage that aren't a direct result of player foolishness are in fact rare. And that Monks are entirely viable standing in melee alongside Fighters and Paladins, even if they have five fewer hit points or one less AC.
drunken master has been bad for a long time, mobile feat made its level 3 irrelevant. It has needed a rework since the old phb. As far as how to build it, they have less variation than others, but there are a number of things to consider.
I made all four monks, mostly I have tested 3. I was going for creating and accentuating playstyles and being different than each other, not necessarily optimal, because I didnt want to make similar choices with all of them. I made some homebrew changes to test certain things, or things I thought might change in final. I also rolled dice, partially so they would end up different.
3 I have tested in a three man solo avernus game.
OH monk:
I made a weird build. Rolled higher than point buy would give.
Concept Strong tough controller.
Goliath. hill's tumble, gives prone on hit PB times a day.
tavern brawler, which rerolls ones, adds a shove on hit once per round and makes furniture clubs. clubs are monk weapons, so this scales with monk die, the last part will likely rarely be useful.
high con, high wis, dex was like 15 at start. Eventually they would be allowed ogre gauntlets. (at level 5)
first feat grappler. I think its almost a have to take here. Other wise, you can't take great advantage of prone, and the current version allows grapple on hit (no save) which is very useful, especially paired with prone on hit.
I homebrewed Openhand technique because I found it lacking, major difference is d4 on push, always can push 5 feet, push is any directional. addle has a save to reduce saves till start of enemy turn. I still almost never use addle, you only get two things to try below 10, and thats generally used on topple. I sometimes use push for a slight damage bump, to help set up AOE, or fall damage. But in pure rules, id probably only really use topple. since I am always grappling, standard push is rarely useful, and addle is rarely useful. IMO open hand monk, up till level 7 is mostly carried by baseline monk. I have never needed wholeness of body, mostly because other party members need rest as much as I do. And OHT is mostly topple mastery. the big deal is getting topple and grapple at 4 but by 8, or via MC this wouldn't be needed.
still overall, its satisfying, you can grab and disable easily, still doing full damage. they provide strong tank capabilities, and the fun feeling of the strong guy.
Elements monk
this guy rolled pretty close to point buy. had a slightly higher off stat, I put it in cha. hes the "face" with 13 cha and proficiency in persuasion. (pretty weak face, but better than -CHA)
Concept, Elemental Bender
Human magic initiate wizard. magic initiate artificer. (assuming they go back to being class based, who knows)
monk's ability to do BA without attack offers unique options of casting while still attacking. this lines up with elements theme/flavor
this allows them to start off doing what they will normally only get access to later.
cantrips
green flame blade; scaling 2 targets, better at 2 targets before 5 slightly better than two attacks at 5
mind sliver theoretically set up stunning, but ehhh
sword burst better aoe than green flame on multiple targets.
________ last cantrip not sure, didnt select one; booming blade maybe, but probably not better than two attacks unless enemy moves, aoe kinda covered.
spells
jump. increases movement, and allows mini flight earlier than 11. can pull enemies for falling damage
ice dagger. just a low level ok aoe. usuable from a distance.
lvl 4 feat charger. theoretically he should be moving around a lot and this gives a damage boost, with a push option.
weapons quarterstaff early for cantrips that require a weap, also was a d8 before level 5. flavor, I make elemental staves with elementalism. but since I need a real item for
Overall, kinda fun when the set up is right, knocking or pulling enemies close and using AOEs However, this guy was the least durable, and though he can dish the aoe, he risked death in doing so. Using jump is cool, but only once a day, so I generally end up saving it and not using it. the elemental aspect actually came up a bit, as in avernus, BPS magical resist comes up early. At six though, this becomes a non issue. The elemental explosion aoe at 6 is....... well its kinda costly. its 2ki, and one action. So, doing this sets you back a bit in Ki, and you probably want at least 3 enemies together. You can push and pull, but they can save, so you can't always get everyone. Its damage isnt crazy, but it does help a bit in this party of mostly single target types.
I'd say its kinda fun, but on turns where you aren't trying to get some aoe or push pull, its got nothing going on. Feels like it will change a lot if I reach 11. (but thats fairly late)
Mercy Monk
rolled slightly below point buy. was supposed to be the brain, but didnt have enough stats left.
Concept : Spirit Acupressure/puncture Teifling Doctor
Abyssal Teifling: poison spray, resistance to poison, ray of sickness hold person. Theoretically this ties into knowing how to heal, sicken and hold person is the critical beat down. flaw is, Avernus. (not many persons, and many immune to poison)
Healer: Slightly homebrewed so that reroll 1s works on hands of healing. Its for healing with a cost.
level 4 feat, homebrewed poisoner as normal, but , you can apply poison when you roll initiative as well as BA, and allows+1 dex int or wisdom attribute
flavor: daggers reskinned as acupuncture needles for her. (throwing/melee)
All in all, healer was great early to feel like a doc before level 3. And nice for healing in combat without ki use, or burst healing (action+flurry) Once again the seperate action and BA is the biggest deal, and what keeps monk from feeling boring. Avernus is pretty punishing to poison build though, and in retrospect, could have gone with weapon mastery, to improve action offense/capabilities, or something else.
She brought good recovery to the team, but often felt like she didnt have much options, or a special thing to do. Having to generally keep Ki for possible future heals, meant generally conservative turns. Useful, but not a ton of fun to play turn to turn. Probably needs a MC for entertainment. But this isnt really a new onednd problem the subclass pretty much plays itself. Maybe needs different racials/feats to try to create something more interesting.
recently allowing holy(radiant) poison for devils, requires holy water to make though.
shadow
point buy 17dex 16wis 14 con 8 8 10
concept, basically shadow ninja
wood elf extra movement, longstrider, pass without a trace
giant foundling background fire strike
lvl 4 feet elven accuracy, Always has advantage, foundling fire strikes on crit. +hopefully failed stunning strikes.
weapons, daggers, handxbow, flavored as shurikens.
extreme defense, deflect + disadvantage from shadows is big. Tries to position shadow in useful ways. Crit fishing, if reaches 8, will pick up either weapon mastery for more fishing, or charger for more crit burst. Constantly able to move without op attacks because of darkness. Would likely benefit from a fighter MC, but I'm playing them straight for now. Didnt play this one as high level, was mostly random encounters, Only did up to level 4 or 5. A couple times I used hide action so the monsters would have no clue of location. But since I was more tanky, this wasn't a common thing. (and is of limited benefit vs 2 attacks) Not sure what this sub would have done in avernus though.
Overall, the class is a lot more fun, it has some new interesting combos, MVP change so far is BA separate from attack. this allows great adaptability in movement and defense, along with new options like magic action, help, hide, or skill use, that I would never have chosen previously. more damage was needed, so thats nice. Stunning strike feels a lot better now, it did need some type of failure effect, though its a bit weird I can't choose the damage. My feeling is the older subclasses generally are more poorly designed than the new. Mercy was a top pick before, but in terms of interesting turn to turn play its lacking. Probably fine for many players though, not everyone wants options, some prefer streamlined play. IMO, OH needs improvement to level 3 and maybe lvl 6. Elements is decent. Shadows decent but I think it needs something for devil sight and true sight types. understandably less effective, but this just negates them, and are not uncommon in certain settings.
I think a very telling thing is that, outside of a rare few individual discussions, none of the OneD&D forums or subforums are actually discussing how the OneD&D Monk or its subclasses could be built or played. No actual hype for playing the OneD&D Monk, no playtest testimonials, no build theories. Any interest in the class just...faded almost immediately, and focus went to the Druid and Barbarian. Discussions of Monk features that are rendered entirely inconsequential due to Weapon Mastery or other features are largely ignored. Heck, many YouTubers who rallied their followers to harass and brigade the creators over Monk "nerfs" haven't even made any videos focused on the UA9 Monk.
Anyway, I've been playing a Drunken Master and it's the perfect example of how many Monk subclasses have zero use whatsoever for a point-free Disengage BA because they already have features baked into the class that support repositioning and mobility without sacrificing damage output, and that the number of times you end up in situations where you desperately need to Disengage that aren't a direct result of player foolishness are in fact rare. And that Monks are entirely viable standing in melee alongside Fighters and Paladins, even if they have five fewer hit points or one less AC.
You are always free to play the 2014 Monk and Monk subclasses. I think you are very swiftly going to realize that you are in a tiny minority if this gets published without revisions.
Monk just became a 20 level class, or at worst the class where you dip one level of something else for a specific feature and then finish Monk to completion. The reason people aren't making build videos is because as-is, it is very hard to make a bad UA8 Monk. And nobody wants to create an inadvertent scenario where it gets nerfed into the ground when it has so many exciting new features. Also, it's unclear if 1DD classes will be allowed to multiclass with 2014 classes, so there aren't many build guides for any UA classes that haven't been confirmed as "finished."
I mean you want to see a bad UA8 class or subclass right now? Look at the poor Moon Druid. All of its new combat features are built around Multiattack, but of the known Moon Druid combat forms all of the existing land animals with Multiattack are bears that come online before level 10. The UA7 Bard couldn't even be playtested because its spell list had been removed from the game in UA6 with the removal of the Arcane/Divine/Primal lists. Nobody know if Barbarians in UA8 can have advantage when using Brutal Strike.
Taking dips in Barbarian or Fighter makes for a significantly more powerful Monk than playing the class straight—gaining free effects on every attack that any Monk would have to expend their limited resource on and skill-boosting options that the Monk is completely lacking in.. The Barbarian even has a specific exemption in its Rage Damage feature that exists solely to stoke Barbarian/Monk multiclass fantasies.
In fact, with the new rules regarding equipping/unequipping weapons and the Bonus Unarmed Strike being separated from the Attack action, it's entirely possible for a Monk who multiclasses to make attacks with a d12 weapon and then unequip that weapon in the same turn to make their bonus strike—completely breaking the balancing factor of the Monk's Bonus Unarmed Strike and making any Monk who uses Monk weapons inferior to any Fighter or Barbarian who exploits mechanics.
I think a very telling thing is that, outside of a rare few individual discussions, none of the OneD&D forums or subforums are actually discussing how the OneD&D Monk or its subclasses could be built or played. No actual hype for playing the OneD&D Monk, no playtest testimonials, no build theories. Any interest in the class just...faded almost immediately, and focus went to the Druid and Barbarian. Discussions of Monk features that are rendered entirely inconsequential due to Weapon Mastery or other features are largely ignored. Heck, many YouTubers who rallied their followers to harass and brigade the creators over Monk "nerfs" haven't even made any videos focused on the UA9 Monk.
Anyway, I've been playing a Drunken Master and it's the perfect example of how many Monk subclasses have zero use whatsoever for a point-free Disengage BA because they already have features baked into the class that support repositioning and mobility without sacrificing damage output, and that the number of times you end up in situations where you desperately need to Disengage that aren't a direct result of player foolishness are in fact rare. And that Monks are entirely viable standing in melee alongside Fighters and Paladins, even if they have five fewer hit points or one less AC.
So you’ve been playing a Drunken Master that hasn’t been revised so we don’t know if that free disengage will still be there when they do revise it. I’m assuming it will be, but who knows. And now that FoB does not need the Attack Action you can get that free disengage on DM with more flexibility.
And giving players an option, like a point free disengage or a point cost disengage with damage seems like a good thing. If you don’t have the point to use FoB I guess you should be boned?
I'm fully expecting that Drunken Master would lose the Disengage on Flurry of Blows, because every other Monk subclass has had utility and features pointlessly stripped from them, to the inexplicable applause of the Monk Bad crowd.
And if you get into that kind of situation with the 2014 Monk? I guess the regular Disengage action doesn't exist at all. Oh, but you'd be sacrificing damage to use that and that's not allowed? Much like...sacrificing your bonus strike to do the same, which is inexplicably Not A Problem in the exact same way? But of course, this ignores the fundamental point to be made about such a situation: that the game isn't required to give you a get-out-of-jail-free card whenever you bumble into a bad situation that is almost certainly your own fault anyway. A Monk played with a modicum of intelligence needs to Disengage just as much as any other martial needs to do so.
But really, I think it perfectly sums up the current OneD&D Monk and its defenders that you are fully expecting a Monk subclass to have an integral feature nerfed and still believe OneD&D Monk Good.
if you are talking short term, monk has great options to MC. but this is true of every class, because there are always some level without an optimal feature.
But if you are talking level 20 builds. Its pretty hard to beat 26/24 dex/wis for the monk class. thats 25 AC, +3 accuracy+3damage per hit, and +2 to Ki DC and wis mod. (or vice versa)
the wis and unarmored bonuses a particularly monk like.
BTW, the monk could always use unequipping to use martial weapons, dropping weapons was free before. And you always get a free object interaction each round(generally used to equip). Triggering BA only requires one of your two attacks to use a monk weapon.
However, this doesnt really serve much purpose since monk weapons scale. Its now only mastery, and some feats that make this needed, which monk basically needs MC to use. (maybe reworked kensei will build this style without fighter) Thing is, the gains here aren't crazy. polearms reaction on entering area might be nice, but that gives up deflect. Great weapon mastery is less useful because your BA is already better than it, and +PB damage is nice, but you don't have tons of feats to go around with such a still strong demand for ASI. Charger is better than GWM early and doesnt require swapping/dropping.
barbarian synergy requires a str based monk to function well, which is possible, but will have noticeably less AC. They don't really have the HP to support constant reckless with low AC. in the long run, they get a better half damage from Superior defense. And MC generally screws them on feats which they kinda want, being very MAD. then you start to lose MA die scaling, subclass final abilities, etc
so yeah, if your campaign is ending at 8-12 you can probably find a hot MC option in there. But that is always the case for every class
As far as your complaint on disengage, if you found it valuable before, its still there, as a BA option or an action option. Drunken fist lvl 3 was always a bad feature as I said. feats do it, openhand does it, shadow monks get it from blind, Astral uses reach, sun soul has ranged attacks, It was just a poor option. in fact the whole drunken dust sub is poorly executed and strongly has needed a rework for years. It has never lived up to the fantasy.
The monk being better as a class far outweighs a subclass that already needs homebrew, needing homebrew (or an official rework)
Also, I think you will find this monk will do much better than 2020 monk survey and the UA6 monk survey. Soo, I think most people will be happier overall with this monk, though there are of course things they might miss, or things that can be improved. And who knows, its theoretically possible the final version will improve some of these things
I think a very telling thing is that, outside of a rare few individual discussions, none of the OneD&D forums or subforums are actually discussing how the OneD&D Monk or its subclasses could be built or played. No actual hype for playing the OneD&D Monk, no playtest testimonials, no build theories. Any interest in the class just...faded almost immediately, and focus went to the Druid and Barbarian. Discussions of Monk features that are rendered entirely inconsequential due to Weapon Mastery or other features are largely ignored. Heck, many YouTubers who rallied their followers to harass and brigade the creators over Monk "nerfs" haven't even made any videos focused on the UA9 Monk.
Anyway, I've been playing a Drunken Master and it's the perfect example of how many Monk subclasses have zero use whatsoever for a point-free Disengage BA because they already have features baked into the class that support repositioning and mobility without sacrificing damage output, and that the number of times you end up in situations where you desperately need to Disengage that aren't a direct result of player foolishness are in fact rare. And that Monks are entirely viable standing in melee alongside Fighters and Paladins, even if they have five fewer hit points or one less AC.
You are always free to play the 2014 Monk and Monk subclasses. I think you are very swiftly going to realize that you are in a tiny minority if this gets published without revisions.
Monk just became a 20 level class, or at worst the class where you dip one level of something else for a specific feature and then finish Monk to completion. The reason people aren't making build videos is because as-is, it is very hard to make a bad UA8 Monk. And nobody wants to create an inadvertent scenario where it gets nerfed into the ground when it has so many exciting new features. Also, it's unclear if 1DD classes will be allowed to multiclass with 2014 classes, so there aren't many build guides for any UA classes that haven't been confirmed as "finished."
I mean you want to see a bad UA8 class or subclass right now? Look at the poor Moon Druid. All of its new combat features are built around Multiattack, but of the known Moon Druid combat forms all of the existing land animals with Multiattack are bears that come online before level 10. The UA7 Bard couldn't even be playtested because its spell list had been removed from the game in UA6 with the removal of the Arcane/Divine/Primal lists. Nobody know if Barbarians in UA8 can have advantage when using Brutal Strike.
Taking dips in Barbarian or Fighter makes for a significantly more powerful Monk than playing the class straight—gaining free effects on every attack that any Monk would have to expend their limited resource on and skill-boosting options that the Monk is completely lacking in.. The Barbarian even has a specific exemption in its Rage Damage feature that exists solely to stoke Barbarian/Monk multiclass fantasies.
In fact, with the new rules regarding equipping/unequipping weapons and the Bonus Unarmed Strike being separated from the Attack action, it's entirely possible for a Monk who multiclasses to make attacks with a d12 weapon and then unequip that weapon in the same turn to make their bonus strike—completely breaking the balancing factor of the Monk's Bonus Unarmed Strike and making any Monk who uses Monk weapons inferior to any Fighter or Barbarian who exploits mechanics.
I think a very telling thing is that, outside of a rare few individual discussions, none of the OneD&D forums or subforums are actually discussing how the OneD&D Monk or its subclasses could be built or played. No actual hype for playing the OneD&D Monk, no playtest testimonials, no build theories. Any interest in the class just...faded almost immediately, and focus went to the Druid and Barbarian. Discussions of Monk features that are rendered entirely inconsequential due to Weapon Mastery or other features are largely ignored. Heck, many YouTubers who rallied their followers to harass and brigade the creators over Monk "nerfs" haven't even made any videos focused on the UA9 Monk.
Anyway, I've been playing a Drunken Master and it's the perfect example of how many Monk subclasses have zero use whatsoever for a point-free Disengage BA because they already have features baked into the class that support repositioning and mobility without sacrificing damage output, and that the number of times you end up in situations where you desperately need to Disengage that aren't a direct result of player foolishness are in fact rare. And that Monks are entirely viable standing in melee alongside Fighters and Paladins, even if they have five fewer hit points or one less AC.
So you’ve been playing a Drunken Master that hasn’t been revised so we don’t know if that free disengage will still be there when they do revise it. I’m assuming it will be, but who knows. And now that FoB does not need the Attack Action you can get that free disengage on DM with more flexibility.
And giving players an option, like a point free disengage or a point cost disengage with damage seems like a good thing. If you don’t have the point to use FoB I guess you should be boned?
I'm fully expecting that Drunken Master would lose the Disengage on Flurry of Blows, because every other Monk subclass has had utility and features pointlessly stripped from them, to the inexplicable applause of the Monk Bad crowd.
And if you get into that kind of situation with the 2014 Monk? I guess the regular Disengage action doesn't exist at all. Oh, but you'd be sacrificing damage to use that and that's not allowed? Much like...sacrificing your bonus strike to do the same, which is inexplicably Not A Problem in the exact same way? But of course, this ignores the fundamental point to be made about such a situation: that the game isn't required to give you a get-out-of-jail-free card whenever you bumble into a bad situation that is almost certainly your own fault anyway. A Monk played with a modicum of intelligence needs to Disengage just as much as any other martial needs to do so.
But really, I think it perfectly sums up the current OneD&D Monk and its defenders that you are fully expecting a Monk subclass to have an integral feature nerfed and still believe OneD&D Monk Good.
To the part I put in red (on phone so breaking up quotes ain’t easy) I never said I wanted that disengage feature changed. I hope it doesn’t because I like there to be options. Want to use your Action to disengage? You can. Want to BA disengage with no DP cost? You can do that too? Playing Drunken Master and disengage vi FoB? You can do that too! I don’t know who the “monk bad crowd” was that was cheering subclass features being stripped from the subclass. I know it wasn’t me.
To the blue part I don’t think anyone is asking for integral features being nerfed. Not sure which ones you are referring to since I only said we don’t know if they will change DM’s FoB disengage. I actually want integral subclass features buffed like Open Hands OHT which was unique and I really liked in 2014 OH monk but with the introduction of Weapon Masteries seems to have lost some luster due to so many being able to do the same with no restrictions. But maybe you disagree with that, I don’t know.
Actually, that is a really good point regarding the vaunted OPTIONS! regarding Monks and the power to run away:
If the Monk can now use their Bonus Strike or Flurry of Blows without the Attack action...why do they need a Discipline-free Dash or Disengage BA if they already have the option to use Dash/Disengage as a regular action while attacking?
It just highlights how the Monk has gotten nothing but The Power To Run Away, instead of anything useful that they'd want to do on 95% of their turns.
I disagree. The option to “run away” is there, sure. But so is the option to BA attack. Probably the real thing they’d want to do on 95% of their turns, considering you said if they need to disengage it was probably the players foolishness.
Im curious, if they left SotW and PD as they were in the 2014 PHB would you have preferred they changed or added anything else? Would there have been any changes you would have liked to see in 1DD?
Drunken Master isn't bad because of the free disengage, that's actually good. The problem is the rest of their kit, which is either ribbons or anti-synergy.
Performance and brewer's supplies are both ribbons. Even if Performance comes up often at your table, the monk is unlikely to have the Charisma to be particularly good at it, and brewer's supplies are among the most niche of the artisan tools.
Tipsy Sway encourages you to stand around in melee, but Drunken Technique wants you to be a skirmisher who gets in and out.
Drunkard's Luck is niche. Generally if you're rolling with disadvantage it's because of poor tactics; the solution is to employ better tactics, not to burn a resource. If it simply gave you advantage that would be a lot better, as it would accomplish the same thing but also be useful if you're playing well, but merely cancelling prevailing disadvantage is much weaker.
Intoxicated Frenzy yet again wants you to be surrounded.
If I wanted a drunken master character/concept, I'd just make a 2024 Open Hand monk and have him carry a flask in his pocket, and be far more effective in general.
Actually, that is a really good point regarding the vaunted OPTIONS! regarding Monks and the power to run away:
If the Monk can now use their Bonus Strike or Flurry of Blows without the Attack action...why do they need a Discipline-free Dash or Disengage BA if they already have the option to use Dash/Disengage as a regular action while attacking?
It just highlights how the Monk has gotten nothing but The Power To Run Away, instead of anything useful that they'd want to do on 95% of their turns.
because different monks have different value propositions for giving up BA or Action. If you got weapon mastery, and a magic weapon. you might want to give up BA. if you are open hand, and need flurry you might prefer giving up your action. Which is actually really great and adaptive.
As to your other comment, elements and shadow didnt use homebrew. Mercy homebrewing healer was just me making its theme work with monk, the actual value difference in rerolling 1 is minimal. Its just odd for a heal focused feature not to benefit from the bonus. Poisoner was a flavor thing, it is far from an optimal pick and its not even particularly about monk interaction.
and as far as taking magic initiate, thats part of the racial now. You expect me to playtest ignoring the fact that we have feats and backgrounds/racial features? thats illogical.
And to be clear, I never claimed this monk was perfect or had nothing to improve, I said it is overall a lot more entertaining to play than 2014 and UA6. I have feedback for improvements I will mention in the survey.
and as for the power to run away.. isnt that exactly what you wanted from drunken master and still have? the power to run away as part of your FOB with no extra action or Ki cost?
As for monk being MAD, they can currently reach max dex/wis with one feat if they start off 17/16. they can take more feats, but they give up a decent amount for taking an extra one, whether its worth it depends on the feat. If you only have one feat, GWM is sub par. Its only decent when your PB is high, and its not a monk weapon, so it requires strength. If you are giving up an asi because its not your first feat, its really sub par
It just highlights how the Monk has gotten nothing but The Power To Run Away, instead of anything useful that they'd want to do on 95% of their turns.
Wrong, they have gotten a massive boost by adding FoB level damage to a failed save vs Stun. Though I agree the BA Dash/Disengage is utterly irrelevant.
It just highlights how the Monk has gotten nothing but The Power To Run Away, instead of anything useful that they'd want to do on 95% of their turns.
Wrong, they have gotten a massive boost by adding FoB level damage to a failed save vs Stun. Though I agree the BA Dash/Disengage is utterly irrelevant.
Nah, your Action can do things your BA can't like magic, hide, help, search, and special actions, like darkness, Environmental Burst, battle medic And use weapons. Your BA can also do things your action can't, like FOB, PD, SOW and sometimes subclass stuff.
Having the option to choose Action or BA has come up multiple times in my playtests with various monks.
It just highlights how the Monk has gotten nothing but The Power To Run Away, instead of anything useful that they'd want to do on 95% of their turns.
Wrong, they have gotten a massive boost by adding FoB level damage to a failed save vs Stun. Though I agree the BA Dash/Disengage is utterly irrelevant.
Nah, your Action can do things your BA can't like magic, hide, help, search, and special actions, like darkness, Environmental Burst, battle medic And use weapons.
Weapons don't do anything your fists can't do unless you MC, and there ain't no magical change in what your Action can or can't do. Nobody used special actions before and they will continue to not use them now. Same for Hide/Help/Search. There is nothing at all new there, being able to 50% damage of your normal damage doesn't significantly change the choice: Do you care more about damage or more about other things you can do? 99% of the time in combat it is doing damage, because killing an enemy stops them killing you better than anything else. Combine that with Stunning Strike, where stunned is the next best thing to dead when it comes to conditions, and I don't see any time when you'd choose to do something else.
It just highlights how the Monk has gotten nothing but The Power To Run Away, instead of anything useful that they'd want to do on 95% of their turns.
Wrong, they have gotten a massive boost by adding FoB level damage to a failed save vs Stun. Though I agree the BA Dash/Disengage is utterly irrelevant.
Nah, your Action can do things your BA can't like magic, hide, help, search, and special actions, like darkness, Environmental Burst, battle medic And use weapons.
Weapons don't do anything your fists can't do unless you MC, and there ain't no magical change in what your Action can or can't do. Nobody used special actions before and they will continue to not use them now. Same for Hide/Help/Search. There is nothing at all new there, being able to 50% damage of your normal damage doesn't significantly change the choice: Do you care more about damage or more about other things you can do? 99% of the time in combat it is doing damage, because killing an enemy stops them killing you better than anything else. Combine that with Stunning Strike, where stunned is the next best thing to dead when it comes to conditions, and I don't see any time when you'd choose to do something else.
so in my avernus playtest, they had magical bps dudes before 6, and they gave me a +1 mace. fighting the demons at that point, it was important
OH monk's grapple on hit only works on attack action strikes.
the elements guy took green flame blade, early on this did an extra mod damage to a target. so it was better than 1BA. (Ki is low early on so I made no Ki attacks often) Then at level 5, it basically adds a d8 to damaging two targets. which is more than the two attacks of flurry of blows.
the mercy monk on multiple occasions needed to use an action to do battle medic. She also had silvered daggers against early bps blocking types.
shadow monk has darkness as a main action, and you can lose it, its officially concentration.
at 6, environmental burst is only an action. And with 3+ targets, its more damage than two attacks. there were already a number of fights where I caught 4 guys.
Shadow has no special riders on FOB, so if you go nick mastery, you can do more damage with your action than your BA 3MA+2MOD versus 2MA+2MOD.
flying enemies? BA does nothing for you.
And Lastly, if you don't have Ki for FOB, your action is more valuable.
Many times you are going to use dash to reach someone you can't reach, if I am disengaging, it mostly because it would be a really bad idea not to. The situation assumed you needed to dash or disengage, or you wouldn't be doing it as an action either.
I'm not just blowing smoke when I say there were times when my action was more valuable than my BA.
And no you literally had to use the attack action to make BA monk attacks before. It was not possible.
and its a pretty big deal
Flurry of Blows. Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as a bonus action.
When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action.
There is a pretty big dif between a zero damage turn and a 50% damage turn.
and monks can stunning strike with attack action, its not exclusive.
When you hit another creature with a melee weapon attack, you can spend 1 ki point to attempt a stunning strike.
I think a very telling thing is that, outside of a rare few individual discussions, none of the OneD&D forums or subforums are actually discussing how the OneD&D Monk or its subclasses could be built or played. No actual hype for playing the OneD&D Monk, no playtest testimonials, no build theories. Any interest in the class just...faded almost immediately, and focus went to the Druid and Barbarian. Discussions of Monk features that are rendered entirely inconsequential due to Weapon Mastery or other features are largely ignored. Heck, many YouTubers who rallied their followers to harass and brigade the creators over Monk "nerfs" haven't even made any videos focused on the UA9 Monk.
Anyway, I've been playing a Drunken Master and it's the perfect example of how many Monk subclasses have zero use whatsoever for a point-free Disengage BA because they already have features baked into the class that support repositioning and mobility without sacrificing damage output, and that the number of times you end up in situations where you desperately need to Disengage that aren't a direct result of player foolishness are in fact rare. And that Monks are entirely viable standing in melee alongside Fighters and Paladins, even if they have five fewer hit points or one less AC.
When you are Flying under the Fly spell you can Dash as well, meaning most of the monk speed boosts also apply to Fly.
Why are we even talking about this? Just choose legacy Aarakocra as your race and then get hasted; cue one feathery zoomy punchy boi. 😉
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Ok, late opinion, but let's see...
I was expecting FoB being independant from the Attack action, so this is nice. What I wasn't expecting was an independant bonus action unarmed strike and I don't know how to feel about it, I guess it's fine, though I wouldn't expect it to survive till the official version, since any action (namely Dodge) + 1 attack per turn, available since level 1 could encourage multiclassing into monk (luckily, monk now has a worthy reason to go all the way to level 20).
I would care more about losing Weapon Mastery as a class feature if they scaled on their own without needing to be a fighter, and the ones available to monk are not that good (except for Nick, maybe), instead monk can use the "Unarmed Masteries" (Grapple and Shove) using Dex now, so it evens out I guess (granted, it takes damage away, but more attempts per turn is fine).
Uncanny Metabolism does help with DP shortage, though I understand why some people may have wanted additional DP or a way to recover DP mid-battle rather than at the start of another one. Now Perfect Discipline... can be used, mainly by Elements (if they spam Burst every turn), it's not really hard to burn through your DP (and the new Stunning Strike does incentivize an attempt per turn), but it may be hard to resort to Perfect Discipline if Uncanny Metabolism is still available, if the DP limit was higher (like 8), then it may be used more often.
Deflect Attacks was something many people were hoping for, but now that the additional bonus strike is not tied to the Attack action, monk can play very defensively with Unarmed Strike (BA) + Dodge (Main action) + Deflect (Reaction if hit). Keep in mind though, this does not cost DP, using DP a monk can add Stunning Strike and use FoB to have both offense and defense.
Finally, Body and Mind gives players a reason not to multiclass out of monk, interestingly, I kinda had the same idea for a monk capstone, however I didn't foresee WotC allowing players to go past an score of 20 with that last ASI, so a Max of 26 in either Dex or Wis and 24 in the other is a fairly good feature.
Overall, I like this version, though I still think Shadow is the best monk subclass, Hand got improved mainly due to the changes to the base class, and Elements can now spam Burst as much as it wants.
people might want to one level dip for monk, but it would mostly be melee pure mages, because it requires you to wear no armor or shields. And how many mages really want to melee, or use their BA to melee?
Having tested this class, imo the only reason it works is because they decoupled BA from attacks, it creates the interesting choices in the class, and really makes it work. Without it, it would be really monotonous without expanded mastery. I was able to do things like hide in my shadow, so they have no idea where I am. (BA attack, then hide) Mercy monk took healer and could battlemedic + attack, or Battlemedic + heal. Or Action heal+Flurry heal. Elements took green flame, and could set up two guys and Green flame blade, then attack. Obvious one was OH topple before attacks. Being able to give up action or BA action depending on situation added a depth it needed.
Perfect discipline.... is not too useful, mostly because at level 15, having less than 4 ki Should almost never happen. If you play that way, you aren't very useful in that fight, and probably should have either rested, or conserved. But its not the end of the world, many of those low resource on initiative features are hard to use.
Hand... Is really living off the strong base class. The main thing it offers is allowing you to get the topple+grappler feat combo off before level 8. But overall, you'd be better off picking a different sub class and MC fighter 1 level, unless the game is going to reach 20. and even then, its probably a more interesting choice, though numerically the level 20 is hard to beat. But the concept is fun. I just think it needs to stand out more with its level 3
Elements, works really well with a separated BA imo, its fun when you get some advantage manipulating enemies, but sometimes when there isnt a reason, can feel slightly monotonous, but thats ok.
mercy feels a bit ehhh now. Mostly because the other options have improved in entertainment. Its useful, but partially due to its nature of saving Ki for heals, it often had uninteresting turns.
Shadow, most of the fun is manipulating the shadows position to minimize negatives, and maximize positives. But I wonder if its too one trick ponyish. The teleport seems like it will rarely be worth the BA use. Cool sometimes kinda feature, and it uses two features to get there. this means the level 3 is still the defining gameplay until 17. Thats a long time. And also Devil Sight/truesight is like, you got nothing. In avernus, for example, you will almost always be a plain monk.
Interestingly, I think your racial choices and feats and possibly MC are really a big deal, since you get no masteries, those choices are really what completes most of these char concepts. Like OH without grappler is like.. incomplete. Goliath hill giant auto prone grappler is like, what the subclass work imo. Not sure my mercy monk would feel like a doctor before 11 without healer feat. (though I houseruled it so the reroll one works on ki, but mostly its battlemedic)
Any how its mostly a big improvement imo.
Feel the same about Open Hand Monk’s OHT. I put in my survey I was very satisfied with the monk base class and satisfied with Hand. But I did write that where OHT was a good feature in 2014 and unique, once Weapon Masteries was introduced it was just too similar to what so many others can now do. And at no cost. So keep Addle and maybe introduce additional or replacement options or maybe decouple OHT from FoB.
I like the changes and hope not much gets discarded at the chopping block when it goes to print. But we shall see.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Monk is much better. im sorry that makes you sad. merry christmas anyways . also im super psyched for the new monk I said as much on my survey. wait for the feedback video from wotc
Full damage comparison video with detailed math.
And what exactly are you expecting? The latest UA is well designed. Do you really need 8 videos saying the same thing for you to believe that to be the case? When most people like a thing, lack of debate is normal.
You are always free to play the 2014 Monk and Monk subclasses. I think you are very swiftly going to realize that you are in a tiny minority if this gets published without revisions.
Monk just became a 20 level class, or at worst the class where you dip one level of something else for a specific feature and then finish Monk to completion. The reason people aren't making build videos is because as-is, it is very hard to make a bad UA8 Monk. And nobody wants to create an inadvertent scenario where it gets nerfed into the ground when it has so many exciting new features. Also, it's unclear if 1DD classes will be allowed to multiclass with 2014 classes, so there aren't many build guides for any UA classes that haven't been confirmed as "finished."
I mean you want to see a bad UA8 class or subclass right now? Look at the poor Moon Druid. All of its new combat features are built around Multiattack, but of the known Moon Druid combat forms all of the existing land animals with Multiattack are bears that come online before level 10. The UA7 Bard couldn't even be playtested because its spell list had been removed from the game in UA6 with the removal of the Arcane/Divine/Primal lists. Nobody know if Barbarians in UA8 can have advantage when using Brutal Strike.
So you’ve been playing a Drunken Master that hasn’t been revised so we don’t know if that free disengage will still be there when they do revise it. I’m assuming it will be, but who knows. And now that FoB does not need the Attack Action you can get that free disengage on DM with more flexibility.
And giving players an option, like a point free disengage or a point cost disengage with damage seems like a good thing. If you don’t have the point to use FoB I guess you should be boned?
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
drunken master has been bad for a long time, mobile feat made its level 3 irrelevant. It has needed a rework since the old phb. As far as how to build it, they have less variation than others, but there are a number of things to consider.
I made all four monks, mostly I have tested 3. I was going for creating and accentuating playstyles and being different than each other, not necessarily optimal, because I didnt want to make similar choices with all of them. I made some homebrew changes to test certain things, or things I thought might change in final. I also rolled dice, partially so they would end up different.
3 I have tested in a three man solo avernus game.
OH monk:
I made a weird build. Rolled higher than point buy would give.
Concept Strong tough controller.
Goliath. hill's tumble, gives prone on hit PB times a day.
tavern brawler, which rerolls ones, adds a shove on hit once per round and makes furniture clubs. clubs are monk weapons, so this scales with monk die, the last part will likely rarely be useful.
high con, high wis, dex was like 15 at start. Eventually they would be allowed ogre gauntlets. (at level 5)
first feat grappler. I think its almost a have to take here. Other wise, you can't take great advantage of prone, and the current version allows grapple on hit (no save) which is very useful, especially paired with prone on hit.
I homebrewed Openhand technique because I found it lacking, major difference is d4 on push, always can push 5 feet, push is any directional. addle has a save to reduce saves till start of enemy turn. I still almost never use addle, you only get two things to try below 10, and thats generally used on topple. I sometimes use push for a slight damage bump, to help set up AOE, or fall damage. But in pure rules, id probably only really use topple. since I am always grappling, standard push is rarely useful, and addle is rarely useful. IMO open hand monk, up till level 7 is mostly carried by baseline monk. I have never needed wholeness of body, mostly because other party members need rest as much as I do. And OHT is mostly topple mastery. the big deal is getting topple and grapple at 4 but by 8, or via MC this wouldn't be needed.
still overall, its satisfying, you can grab and disable easily, still doing full damage. they provide strong tank capabilities, and the fun feeling of the strong guy.
Elements monk
this guy rolled pretty close to point buy. had a slightly higher off stat, I put it in cha. hes the "face" with 13 cha and proficiency in persuasion. (pretty weak face, but better than -CHA)
Concept, Elemental Bender
Human magic initiate wizard. magic initiate artificer. (assuming they go back to being class based, who knows)
monk's ability to do BA without attack offers unique options of casting while still attacking. this lines up with elements theme/flavor
this allows them to start off doing what they will normally only get access to later.
cantrips
green flame blade; scaling 2 targets, better at 2 targets before 5 slightly better than two attacks at 5
mind sliver theoretically set up stunning, but ehhh
sword burst better aoe than green flame on multiple targets.
________ last cantrip not sure, didnt select one; booming blade maybe, but probably not better than two attacks unless enemy moves, aoe kinda covered.
spells
jump. increases movement, and allows mini flight earlier than 11. can pull enemies for falling damage
ice dagger. just a low level ok aoe. usuable from a distance.
lvl 4 feat charger. theoretically he should be moving around a lot and this gives a damage boost, with a push option.
weapons quarterstaff early for cantrips that require a weap, also was a d8 before level 5. flavor, I make elemental staves with elementalism. but since I need a real item for
Overall, kinda fun when the set up is right, knocking or pulling enemies close and using AOEs However, this guy was the least durable, and though he can dish the aoe, he risked death in doing so. Using jump is cool, but only once a day, so I generally end up saving it and not using it. the elemental aspect actually came up a bit, as in avernus, BPS magical resist comes up early. At six though, this becomes a non issue. The elemental explosion aoe at 6 is....... well its kinda costly. its 2ki, and one action. So, doing this sets you back a bit in Ki, and you probably want at least 3 enemies together. You can push and pull, but they can save, so you can't always get everyone. Its damage isnt crazy, but it does help a bit in this party of mostly single target types.
I'd say its kinda fun, but on turns where you aren't trying to get some aoe or push pull, its got nothing going on. Feels like it will change a lot if I reach 11. (but thats fairly late)
Mercy Monk
rolled slightly below point buy. was supposed to be the brain, but didnt have enough stats left.
Concept : Spirit Acupressure/puncture Teifling Doctor
Abyssal Teifling: poison spray, resistance to poison, ray of sickness hold person. Theoretically this ties into knowing how to heal, sicken and hold person is the critical beat down. flaw is, Avernus. (not many persons, and many immune to poison)
Healer: Slightly homebrewed so that reroll 1s works on hands of healing. Its for healing with a cost.
level 4 feat, homebrewed poisoner as normal, but , you can apply poison when you roll initiative as well as BA, and allows+1 dex int or wisdom attribute
flavor: daggers reskinned as acupuncture needles for her. (throwing/melee)
All in all, healer was great early to feel like a doc before level 3. And nice for healing in combat without ki use, or burst healing (action+flurry) Once again the seperate action and BA is the biggest deal, and what keeps monk from feeling boring. Avernus is pretty punishing to poison build though, and in retrospect, could have gone with weapon mastery, to improve action offense/capabilities, or something else.
She brought good recovery to the team, but often felt like she didnt have much options, or a special thing to do. Having to generally keep Ki for possible future heals, meant generally conservative turns. Useful, but not a ton of fun to play turn to turn. Probably needs a MC for entertainment. But this isnt really a new onednd problem the subclass pretty much plays itself. Maybe needs different racials/feats to try to create something more interesting.
recently allowing holy(radiant) poison for devils, requires holy water to make though.
shadow
point buy 17dex 16wis 14 con 8 8 10
concept, basically shadow ninja
wood elf extra movement, longstrider, pass without a trace
giant foundling background fire strike
lvl 4 feet elven accuracy, Always has advantage, foundling fire strikes on crit. +hopefully failed stunning strikes.
weapons, daggers, handxbow, flavored as shurikens.
extreme defense, deflect + disadvantage from shadows is big. Tries to position shadow in useful ways. Crit fishing, if reaches 8, will pick up either weapon mastery for more fishing, or charger for more crit burst. Constantly able to move without op attacks because of darkness. Would likely benefit from a fighter MC, but I'm playing them straight for now. Didnt play this one as high level, was mostly random encounters, Only did up to level 4 or 5. A couple times I used hide action so the monsters would have no clue of location. But since I was more tanky, this wasn't a common thing. (and is of limited benefit vs 2 attacks) Not sure what this sub would have done in avernus though.
Overall, the class is a lot more fun, it has some new interesting combos, MVP change so far is BA separate from attack. this allows great adaptability in movement and defense, along with new options like magic action, help, hide, or skill use, that I would never have chosen previously. more damage was needed, so thats nice. Stunning strike feels a lot better now, it did need some type of failure effect, though its a bit weird I can't choose the damage. My feeling is the older subclasses generally are more poorly designed than the new. Mercy was a top pick before, but in terms of interesting turn to turn play its lacking. Probably fine for many players though, not everyone wants options, some prefer streamlined play. IMO, OH needs improvement to level 3 and maybe lvl 6. Elements is decent. Shadows decent but I think it needs something for devil sight and true sight types. understandably less effective, but this just negates them, and are not uncommon in certain settings.
if you are talking short term, monk has great options to MC. but this is true of every class, because there are always some level without an optimal feature.
But if you are talking level 20 builds. Its pretty hard to beat 26/24 dex/wis for the monk class. thats 25 AC, +3 accuracy+3damage per hit, and +2 to Ki DC and wis mod. (or vice versa)
the wis and unarmored bonuses a particularly monk like.
BTW, the monk could always use unequipping to use martial weapons, dropping weapons was free before. And you always get a free object interaction each round(generally used to equip). Triggering BA only requires one of your two attacks to use a monk weapon.
However, this doesnt really serve much purpose since monk weapons scale. Its now only mastery, and some feats that make this needed, which monk basically needs MC to use. (maybe reworked kensei will build this style without fighter) Thing is, the gains here aren't crazy. polearms reaction on entering area might be nice, but that gives up deflect. Great weapon mastery is less useful because your BA is already better than it, and +PB damage is nice, but you don't have tons of feats to go around with such a still strong demand for ASI. Charger is better than GWM early and doesnt require swapping/dropping.
barbarian synergy requires a str based monk to function well, which is possible, but will have noticeably less AC. They don't really have the HP to support constant reckless with low AC. in the long run, they get a better half damage from Superior defense. And MC generally screws them on feats which they kinda want, being very MAD. then you start to lose MA die scaling, subclass final abilities, etc
so yeah, if your campaign is ending at 8-12 you can probably find a hot MC option in there. But that is always the case for every class
As far as your complaint on disengage, if you found it valuable before, its still there, as a BA option or an action option. Drunken fist lvl 3 was always a bad feature as I said. feats do it, openhand does it, shadow monks get it from blind, Astral uses reach, sun soul has ranged attacks, It was just a poor option. in fact the whole drunken dust sub is poorly executed and strongly has needed a rework for years. It has never lived up to the fantasy.
The monk being better as a class far outweighs a subclass that already needs homebrew, needing homebrew (or an official rework)
Also, I think you will find this monk will do much better than 2020 monk survey and the UA6 monk survey. Soo, I think most people will be happier overall with this monk, though there are of course things they might miss, or things that can be improved. And who knows, its theoretically possible the final version will improve some of these things
To the part I put in red (on phone so breaking up quotes ain’t easy) I never said I wanted that disengage feature changed. I hope it doesn’t because I like there to be options. Want to use your Action to disengage? You can. Want to BA disengage with no DP cost? You can do that too? Playing Drunken Master and disengage vi FoB? You can do that too! I don’t know who the “monk bad crowd” was that was cheering subclass features being stripped from the subclass. I know it wasn’t me.
To the blue part I don’t think anyone is asking for integral features being nerfed. Not sure which ones you are referring to since I only said we don’t know if they will change DM’s FoB disengage. I actually want integral subclass features buffed like Open Hands OHT which was unique and I really liked in 2014 OH monk but with the introduction of Weapon Masteries seems to have lost some luster due to so many being able to do the same with no restrictions. But maybe you disagree with that, I don’t know.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I disagree. The option to “run away” is there, sure. But so is the option to BA attack. Probably the real thing they’d want to do on 95% of their turns, considering you said if they need to disengage it was probably the players foolishness.
Im curious, if they left SotW and PD as they were in the 2014 PHB would you have preferred they changed or added anything else? Would there have been any changes you would have liked to see in 1DD?
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Drunken Master isn't bad because of the free disengage, that's actually good. The problem is the rest of their kit, which is either ribbons or anti-synergy.
If I wanted a drunken master character/concept, I'd just make a 2024 Open Hand monk and have him carry a flask in his pocket, and be far more effective in general.
because different monks have different value propositions for giving up BA or Action. If you got weapon mastery, and a magic weapon. you might want to give up BA. if you are open hand, and need flurry you might prefer giving up your action. Which is actually really great and adaptive.
As to your other comment, elements and shadow didnt use homebrew. Mercy homebrewing healer was just me making its theme work with monk, the actual value difference in rerolling 1 is minimal. Its just odd for a heal focused feature not to benefit from the bonus. Poisoner was a flavor thing, it is far from an optimal pick and its not even particularly about monk interaction.
and as far as taking magic initiate, thats part of the racial now. You expect me to playtest ignoring the fact that we have feats and backgrounds/racial features? thats illogical.
And to be clear, I never claimed this monk was perfect or had nothing to improve, I said it is overall a lot more entertaining to play than 2014 and UA6. I have feedback for improvements I will mention in the survey.
and as for the power to run away.. isnt that exactly what you wanted from drunken master and still have? the power to run away as part of your FOB with no extra action or Ki cost?
As for monk being MAD, they can currently reach max dex/wis with one feat if they start off 17/16. they can take more feats, but they give up a decent amount for taking an extra one, whether its worth it depends on the feat. If you only have one feat, GWM is sub par. Its only decent when your PB is high, and its not a monk weapon, so it requires strength. If you are giving up an asi because its not your first feat, its really sub par
Wrong, they have gotten a massive boost by adding FoB level damage to a failed save vs Stun. Though I agree the BA Dash/Disengage is utterly irrelevant.
Nah, your Action can do things your BA can't like magic, hide, help, search, and special actions, like darkness, Environmental Burst, battle medic And use weapons. Your BA can also do things your action can't, like FOB, PD, SOW and sometimes subclass stuff.
Having the option to choose Action or BA has come up multiple times in my playtests with various monks.
its a good catch by the designers
Weapons don't do anything your fists can't do unless you MC, and there ain't no magical change in what your Action can or can't do. Nobody used special actions before and they will continue to not use them now. Same for Hide/Help/Search. There is nothing at all new there, being able to 50% damage of your normal damage doesn't significantly change the choice: Do you care more about damage or more about other things you can do? 99% of the time in combat it is doing damage, because killing an enemy stops them killing you better than anything else. Combine that with Stunning Strike, where stunned is the next best thing to dead when it comes to conditions, and I don't see any time when you'd choose to do something else.
so in my avernus playtest, they had magical bps dudes before 6, and they gave me a +1 mace. fighting the demons at that point, it was important
OH monk's grapple on hit only works on attack action strikes.
the elements guy took green flame blade, early on this did an extra mod damage to a target. so it was better than 1BA. (Ki is low early on so I made no Ki attacks often) Then at level 5, it basically adds a d8 to damaging two targets. which is more than the two attacks of flurry of blows.
the mercy monk on multiple occasions needed to use an action to do battle medic. She also had silvered daggers against early bps blocking types.
shadow monk has darkness as a main action, and you can lose it, its officially concentration.
at 6, environmental burst is only an action. And with 3+ targets, its more damage than two attacks. there were already a number of fights where I caught 4 guys.
Shadow has no special riders on FOB, so if you go nick mastery, you can do more damage with your action than your BA 3MA+2MOD versus 2MA+2MOD.
flying enemies? BA does nothing for you.
And Lastly, if you don't have Ki for FOB, your action is more valuable.
Many times you are going to use dash to reach someone you can't reach, if I am disengaging, it mostly because it would be a really bad idea not to. The situation assumed you needed to dash or disengage, or you wouldn't be doing it as an action either.
I'm not just blowing smoke when I say there were times when my action was more valuable than my BA.
And no you literally had to use the attack action to make BA monk attacks before. It was not possible.
and its a pretty big deal
There is a pretty big dif between a zero damage turn and a 50% damage turn.
and monks can stunning strike with attack action, its not exclusive.
Just for the fun of proving you wrong, here are some links to posts on the One DnD subreddit that feature exactly what you claim doesn't exist:
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https://www.reddit.com/r/onednd/comments/18encgx/monk_level_2_6_feedback/ (Monk playtest feedback)
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https://www.reddit.com/r/onednd/comments/187oe3h/new_action_options_on_the_latest_ua_monk/ (Discussing new monk action synergies)
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https://www.reddit.com/r/onednd/comments/185xhrq/playtest_8_monk_damage/ (Monk damage calculations)
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https://www.reddit.com/r/onednd/comments/186rww8/best_monk_subclass_after_playtest_8/ (Subclass discussion for PT8 monk)
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https://www.reddit.com/r/onednd/comments/18czgcu/the_elements_monk_and_aoe_is_it_worth/ (More of the former)
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https://www.reddit.com/r/onednd/comments/185gro5/new_top_damage_dealer_the_druid_monk_and_conjure/ (Multiclass discussion)