The way I'm reading it you forgo all advantage on the attack, not just from reckless, and it only effects the first attack you make after using reckless so you still get your second attack with advantage...
i agree, i'm reading this as activating Reckless Attacks gives advantage "on attack rolls using Strength until the start of your next turn," and Brutal Strike cancels only advantage for "the next attack roll you make..."
so it cancels all advantage for that first strike, but the rest of the turn you have advantage on attacks. in return your brutal recklessness, you net +1d10 and an effect plus whatever weapon masteries you have going on. there's a whole page of people who presumably play barbarian more than i reading this differently though. what's the consensus?
The way I'm reading it you forgo all advantage on the attack, not just from reckless, and it only effects the first attack you make after using reckless so you still get your second attack with advantage...
i agree, i'm reading this as activating Reckless Attacks gives advantage "on attack rolls using Strength until the start of your next turn," and Brutal Strike cancels only advantage for "the next attack roll you make..."
so it cancels all advantage for that first strike, but the rest of the turn you have advantage on attacks. in return your brutal recklessness, you net +1d10 and an effect plus whatever weapon masteries you have going on. there's a whole page of people who presumably play barbarian more than i reading this differently though. what's the consensus?
It's true you only lose advantage on the first swing - but unfortunately, that's the swing that needs to connect for your BS to trigger, so it's still going to feel really bad when it doesn't.
"If you use Reckless Attack, you can forgo Advantage on the next attack roll you make on your turn with a Strength-based attack. If that attack hits, the target takes an extra 1d10 damage of the same type dealt by the weapon or Unarmed Strike, and you can cause one Brutal Strike effect of your choice."
The way I'm reading it you forgo all advantage on the attack, not just from reckless, and it only effects the first attack you make after using reckless so you still get your second attack with advantage...
i agree, i'm reading this as activating Reckless Attacks gives advantage "on attack rolls using Strength until the start of your next turn," and Brutal Strike cancels only advantage for "the next attack roll you make..."
so it cancels all advantage for that first strike, but the rest of the turn you have advantage on attacks. in return your brutal recklessness, you net +1d10 and an effect plus whatever weapon masteries you have going on. there's a whole page of people who presumably play barbarian more than i reading this differently though. what's the consensus?
I'm all for options to get additional damage, and I think it's great to give Barbarian some battlefield control features... but I think the advantage from Reckless Attack was one of my absolute favorite features, and I think 9 times out of ten I would rather just have the advantage.
Honestly, the ability to swap advantage for additional attack options feels like it would work better as a subclass feature than as something built into the core class. Something like how Samurai Fighters can forego advantage on an attack to make two attacks instead. Some players are going to want to mess around with that, but not everyone does.
I also don't like how this feature also completely replaces Brutal Critical. I understand that Brutal Critical is a difficult feature to actually use regularly, but the ability to output massive crit damage was deeply satisfying, and it paired well with Reckless Attack. I'd happily drop the new Brutal Strike for something as simple as Critting on a 19-20. Mechanically, I'm sure the Brutal Strikes would outperform that on paper, but the alternative just feels more fun.
I also don't like how this feature also completely replaces Brutal Critical. I understand that Brutal Critical is a difficult feature to actually use regularly, but the ability to output massive crit damage was deeply satisfying, and it paired well with Reckless Attack. I'd happily drop the new Brutal Strike for something as simple as Critting on a 19-20. Mechanically, I'm sure the Brutal Strikes would outperform that on paper, but the alternative just feels more fun.
I like, or maybe UA7's Brutal Critical should have had an addition:
While in Rage, any attack you land can be spent one additional use of Rage (OR alternatively have your current Rage immediately ended, as you vent all of your current Rage on the hit.) to convert it into a critical hit.
If it only removed advantage from RA, but still allowed for you to benefit from other advantage sources, it would be a double win:
1) It rewards teamwork, because your party can make sure you get advantage, and in exchange you can help them (e.g. by imposing disadvantage on the enemy's next save, or pushing them into a nasty zone effect or hazard.
2) It gives the barbarian new build options/more depth, because now they have a reason to care about other sources of advantage, e.g. a Topple or Vex weapon or a feat like Grappler, where before those things were redundant with RA and therefore not nearly as useful for them.
And even without those, the Barbarian would still have an interesting choice of whether to activate it or not, using a straight attack instead.
Brutal attack is probably fine at high levels, hit probabilities do not actually stay at 70% and advantage when you're already at 85% to hit is not a huge win, but I don't see a real reason not to just give straight-up permanent damage boosts at higher levels -- I'd probably give them the Brute feature you see on some monster stat blocks, as that encourages using big weapons.
The main reason not to combine forceful blow with a push weapon is ... unless your DM uses BG3 type maps with instant death chasms all over the place, pushing people out of range of your subsequent attacks is the last thing you want to.
The way I'm reading it you forgo all advantage on the attack, not just from reckless, and it only effects the first attack you make after using reckless so you still get your second attack with advantage...
i agree, i'm reading this as activating Reckless Attacks gives advantage "on attack rolls using Strength until the start of your next turn," and Brutal Strike cancels only advantage for "the next attack roll you make..."
so it cancels all advantage for that first strike, but the rest of the turn you have advantage on attacks. in return your brutal recklessness, you net +1d10 and an effect plus whatever weapon masteries you have going on. there's a whole page of people who presumably play barbarian more than i reading this differently though. what's the consensus?
I'm all for options to get additional damage, and I think it's great to give Barbarian some battlefield control features... but I think the advantage from Reckless Attack was one of my absolute favorite features, and I think 9 times out of ten I would rather just have the advantage.
Honestly, the ability to swap advantage for additional attack options feels like it would work better as a subclass feature than as something built into the core class. Something like how Samurai Fighters can forego advantage on an attack to make two attacks instead. Some players are going to want to mess around with that, but not everyone does.
I also don't like how this feature also completely replaces Brutal Critical. I understand that Brutal Critical is a difficult feature to actually use regularly, but the ability to output massive crit damage was deeply satisfying, and it paired well with Reckless Attack. I'd happily drop the new Brutal Strike for something as simple as Critting on a 19-20. Mechanically, I'm sure the Brutal Strikes would outperform that on paper, but the alternative just feels more fun.
it replaces brutal crit because people were complaining, its damage boost is similar to bc early, and slightly more later. so overall the power level is similar. I liked the possibility of BC more though, the barbarians never had trashy crits, now you go back to rolling 2+2 on a critical hit. lame, imo.
it replaces brutal crit because people were complaining, its damage boost is similar to bc early, and slightly more later. so overall the power level is similar. I liked the possibility of BC more though, the barbarians never had trashy crits, now you go back to rolling 2+2 on a critical hit. lame, imo.
Yeah, I'm not impressed with Brutal Strikes, it's not doing anything to address the problem which was that Brutal Critical hardly increased your damage at all, it just made it more spike-y (though when it triggered it was super awesome). Whereas taking a Fighter dip could significantly increase your damage which is what I want out of my Barbarian. I'd still not stay solo-barbarian past level 7, I'll be MCing fighter or warlock just as before.
LEVEL 14: TRAVEL ALONG THE TREE As an action, you touch a Huge or larger tree or a Teleportation Circle to create a link through the World Tree to a Teleportation Circle somewhere else on the same world or on another plane of existence. When you do so, you can specify a target destination in general terms, such as the City of Brass on the Elemental Plane of Fire, and you and up to five willing creatures within 30 feet of you appear at the Teleportation Circle closest to that destination. If a Teleportation Circle is too small to hold all the creatures you transported, they appear in the unoccupied spaces closest to the circle. Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a Long Rest. If you’ve run outof uses of this feature, you can expend five uses of your Rage, choosing to activate this feature instead of Rage.
with the new UA
<span;>LEVEL 14: TRAVEL ALONG THE TREE You can briefly travel along the World Tree. When you activate your Rage and as a Bonus Action while it's active, you can teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see. In addition, when you teleport using this feature, you can bring up to six willing creatures who are within 10 feet of yourself, and the range you can teleport increases to 500 feet. Each creature teleports to an unoccupied space of your choice within 10 feet of your destination space. You can teleport other creatures with you only once per Rage.
I was looking forward to a multi-planar teleporting Barbarian
as much as I thought the transplanar tree barb was cartoony, I'm not sure wack-a-mole tree barb isn't worse. at least the teleportation circle stuff had the World Tree feeling like an epic network. now it's a bounce house for vikings?
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I feel like this is one half dozen or the other. This ability is ok, but the loss of advantage makes it a little unappealing. I want my barbarian to hit hard, I don't know if this does that. Either way I don't think this really incentivizes me as a player to not multiclass out of barbarian
I love the concept of the Brutal Strike feature, but I agree that the wording needs to be cleaned up, and I'm not sure if it's too powerful especially at L17 when you can stack a 2d10 damage boost, two Brutal Strike effects, AND a Weapon Mastery effect on a single attack and do so every time you make a Reckless attack without Advantage. We definitely need clarity on how the Push and Slow weapon mastery properties interact with their corresponding Brutal Strike choices, because if they stack then YEESH. Plus, 15-foot forced movement with no save seems a bit much.
The level 14 feature is worded really, really strangely.
When you activate your Rage and as a Bonus Action while it’s active, you can teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see. In addition, when you teleport using this feature, you can bring up to six willing creatures who are within 10 feet of yourself, and the range you can teleport increases to 500 feet.
So... the range is basically never limited to 60 feet? It's always 500 feet? Sad that strategic teleporting are no longer an option, and that trees are no longer in the picture.
The level 14 feature is worded really, really strangely.
When you activate your Rage and as a Bonus Action while it’s active, you can teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see. In addition, when you teleport using this feature, you can bring up to six willing creatures who are within 10 feet of yourself, and the range you can teleport increases to 500 feet.
So... the range is basically never limited to 60 feet? It's always 500 feet? Sad that strategic teleporting are no longer an option, and that trees are no longer in the picture.
I believe the intent is you can teleport 60' once every turn during Rage, and you can do the 500' version only once per Rage, possibly bringing people with you. Yeah, the wording is odd, and I don't like this change to the subclass. 60' teleport every turn during every Rage is just way too much imo. I would say, make the 60' bamf once per Rage, allowing it to be on the turn you enter your Rage if you want. Make the 500' once per Short Rest, and then allow Transport Via Plants or Teleportation Circle once per Long Rest.
Brutal Strike comes online at level 9. By that time the campaign is almost over. That's the real problem. If the options were a part of Reckless Attack feature, that would've been something. It also needs more options sprinkled across levels so that there's something to look forward to.
Brutal Strike comes online at level 9. By that time the campaign is almost over. That's the real problem. If the options were a part of Reckless Attack feature, that would've been something. It also needs more options sprinkled across levels so that there's something to look forward to.
Kind of an odd argument. Should all classes not get any new features in the high levels simply because most published campaigns won't get that far? If the level cap is going to be 20, then those higher levels should have interesting things for the players even if not all campaigns will reach them.
Brutal Strike comes online at level 9. By that time the campaign is almost over. That's the real problem. If the options were a part of Reckless Attack feature, that would've been something. It also needs more options sprinkled across levels so that there's something to look forward to.
Brutal strike is the replacement for brutal critical, so it's the same level. As for coming in at high level: one of the classic problems with barbarian is that it doesn't get much of value past level 7. Fixing that requires... options that come on line at high level.
I never said that barbarian shouldn't get anything at higher levels. I said that barbarian needs basic Brutal Strike options sooner, and additional options to be added later. Inspiring warcries, frightening enemies around when dealing a killing blow, throwing enemies into one another, ramping up temporary HP to become even tankier. That sort of thing. Things to do, like with Cunning Strikes.
Brutal Strike comes online at level 9. By that time the campaign is almost over. That's the real problem. If the options were a part of Reckless Attack feature, that would've been something. It also needs more options sprinkled across levels so that there's something to look forward to.
Barbarian is fine from 1-8. It doesn't need anything else in that bracket. Remember you have Weapon Mastery and Primal Knowledge there now too.
Brutal Strike comes online at level 9. By that time the campaign is almost over. That's the real problem. If the options were a part of Reckless Attack feature, that would've been something. It also needs more options sprinkled across levels so that there's something to look forward to.
Brutal strike is the replacement for brutal critical, so it's the same level. As for coming in at high level: one of the classic problems with barbarian is that it doesn't get much of value past level 7. Fixing that requires... options that come on line at high level.
I think there's a balance to be struck; Brutal Criticals was a pretty forgettable feature on 5e Barbarian, when it triggered it could feel good to roll the extra dice, but only if you actually remembered it (so literally forgettable since it only had a ~5-10% chance to trigger). It's always been more of a "nice to have" than something that ever felt core to being a Barbarian, and in general anything that only happens on a critical hit is likely to be forgotten.
Brutal Strikes has the potential to be a much more significant core feature, though currently the way it triggers is messy, and gives Barbarians an interesting new option to consider so they're not just an "I hit things" class. So I can totally see the argument for Brutal Strikes to come earlier, but maybe scale somehow, and gain some additional abilities later.
I'm generally of the opinion that higher level features should be more about scaling up what you've already got, gaining higher damage dice, more options, etc. or features that are generally just supplementing things you can already do in some form. This way they're not missing from a class' core identity if you don't get to them, but you still feel like you're gaining by levelling up further. Really my ideal is for highest level features to be the class in its "ultimate" form, but you should never feel like there's anything missing if you only play into tier 2.
With Brutal Strikes in particular, as a 9th-level feature it's right on the cusp of being too late; if a campaign lasts until 10th-level then you can still get two levels out of it which is fine, but until that point the Barbarian is still mostly either "I hit things" or "I hit things recklessly". While it wouldn't be the end of the world if it stays there, I could definitely see it coming closer to the start of tier 2 (5th-, 6th- or 7th-level) so more players can get more mileage from it.
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i agree, i'm reading this as activating Reckless Attacks gives advantage "on attack rolls using Strength until the start of your next turn," and Brutal Strike cancels only advantage for "the next attack roll you make..."
so it cancels all advantage for that first strike, but the rest of the turn you have advantage on attacks. in return your brutal recklessness, you net +1d10 and an effect plus whatever weapon masteries you have going on. there's a whole page of people who presumably play barbarian more than i reading this differently though. what's the consensus?
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
It's true you only lose advantage on the first swing - but unfortunately, that's the swing that needs to connect for your BS to trigger, so it's still going to feel really bad when it doesn't.
"If you use Reckless Attack, you can forgo Advantage on the next attack roll you make on your turn with a Strength-based attack. If that attack hits, the target takes an extra 1d10 damage of the same type dealt by the weapon or Unarmed Strike, and you can cause one Brutal Strike effect of your choice."
I can't deny any boost to damage output is always nice.
I'm all for options to get additional damage, and I think it's great to give Barbarian some battlefield control features... but I think the advantage from Reckless Attack was one of my absolute favorite features, and I think 9 times out of ten I would rather just have the advantage.
Honestly, the ability to swap advantage for additional attack options feels like it would work better as a subclass feature than as something built into the core class. Something like how Samurai Fighters can forego advantage on an attack to make two attacks instead. Some players are going to want to mess around with that, but not everyone does.
I also don't like how this feature also completely replaces Brutal Critical. I understand that Brutal Critical is a difficult feature to actually use regularly, but the ability to output massive crit damage was deeply satisfying, and it paired well with Reckless Attack. I'd happily drop the new Brutal Strike for something as simple as Critting on a 19-20. Mechanically, I'm sure the Brutal Strikes would outperform that on paper, but the alternative just feels more fun.
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I like, or maybe UA7's Brutal Critical should have had an addition:
While in Rage, any attack you land can be spent one additional use of Rage (OR alternatively have your current Rage immediately ended, as you vent all of your current Rage on the hit.) to convert it into a critical hit.
If it only removed advantage from RA, but still allowed for you to benefit from other advantage sources, it would be a double win:
1) It rewards teamwork, because your party can make sure you get advantage, and in exchange you can help them (e.g. by imposing disadvantage on the enemy's next save, or pushing them into a nasty zone effect or hazard.
2) It gives the barbarian new build options/more depth, because now they have a reason to care about other sources of advantage, e.g. a Topple or Vex weapon or a feat like Grappler, where before those things were redundant with RA and therefore not nearly as useful for them.
And even without those, the Barbarian would still have an interesting choice of whether to activate it or not, using a straight attack instead.
Brutal attack is probably fine at high levels, hit probabilities do not actually stay at 70% and advantage when you're already at 85% to hit is not a huge win, but I don't see a real reason not to just give straight-up permanent damage boosts at higher levels -- I'd probably give them the Brute feature you see on some monster stat blocks, as that encourages using big weapons.
The main reason not to combine forceful blow with a push weapon is ... unless your DM uses BG3 type maps with instant death chasms all over the place, pushing people out of range of your subsequent attacks is the last thing you want to.
it replaces brutal crit because people were complaining, its damage boost is similar to bc early, and slightly more later. so overall the power level is similar. I liked the possibility of BC more though, the barbarians never had trashy crits, now you go back to rolling 2+2 on a critical hit. lame, imo.
Yeah, I'm not impressed with Brutal Strikes, it's not doing anything to address the problem which was that Brutal Critical hardly increased your damage at all, it just made it more spike-y (though when it triggered it was super awesome). Whereas taking a Fighter dip could significantly increase your damage which is what I want out of my Barbarian. I'd still not stay solo-barbarian past level 7, I'll be MCing fighter or warlock just as before.
Comparing the old UA
LEVEL 14: TRAVEL ALONG THE TREE As an action, you touch a Huge or larger tree or a Teleportation Circle to create a link through the World Tree to a Teleportation Circle somewhere else on the same world or on another plane of existence. When you do so, you can specify a target destination in general terms, such as the City of Brass on the Elemental Plane of Fire, and you and up to five willing creatures within 30 feet of you appear at the Teleportation Circle closest to that destination. If a Teleportation Circle is too small to hold all the creatures you transported, they appear in the unoccupied spaces closest to the circle. Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a Long Rest. If you’ve run outof uses of this feature, you can expend five uses of your Rage, choosing to activate this feature instead of Rage.
with the new UA
<span;>LEVEL 14: TRAVEL ALONG THE TREE You can briefly travel along the World Tree. When you activate your Rage and as a Bonus Action while it's active, you can teleport up to 60 feet to an unoccupied space you can see. In addition, when you teleport using this feature, you can bring up to six willing creatures who are within 10 feet of yourself, and the range you can teleport increases to 500 feet. Each creature teleports to an unoccupied space of your choice within 10 feet of your destination space. You can teleport other creatures with you only once per Rage.
I was looking forward to a multi-planar teleporting Barbarian
as much as I thought the transplanar tree barb was cartoony, I'm not sure wack-a-mole tree barb isn't worse. at least the teleportation circle stuff had the World Tree feeling like an epic network. now it's a bounce house for vikings?
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
I feel like this is one half dozen or the other. This ability is ok, but the loss of advantage makes it a little unappealing. I want my barbarian to hit hard, I don't know if this does that. Either way I don't think this really incentivizes me as a player to not multiclass out of barbarian
I love the concept of the Brutal Strike feature, but I agree that the wording needs to be cleaned up, and I'm not sure if it's too powerful especially at L17 when you can stack a 2d10 damage boost, two Brutal Strike effects, AND a Weapon Mastery effect on a single attack and do so every time you make a Reckless attack without Advantage. We definitely need clarity on how the Push and Slow weapon mastery properties interact with their corresponding Brutal Strike choices, because if they stack then YEESH. Plus, 15-foot forced movement with no save seems a bit much.
The level 14 feature is worded really, really strangely.
So... the range is basically never limited to 60 feet? It's always 500 feet?
Sad that strategic teleporting are no longer an option, and that trees are no longer in the picture.
I believe the intent is you can teleport 60' once every turn during Rage, and you can do the 500' version only once per Rage, possibly bringing people with you. Yeah, the wording is odd, and I don't like this change to the subclass. 60' teleport every turn during every Rage is just way too much imo. I would say, make the 60' bamf once per Rage, allowing it to be on the turn you enter your Rage if you want. Make the 500' once per Short Rest, and then allow Transport Via Plants or Teleportation Circle once per Long Rest.
Brutal Strike comes online at level 9. By that time the campaign is almost over. That's the real problem. If the options were a part of Reckless Attack feature, that would've been something. It also needs more options sprinkled across levels so that there's something to look forward to.
Kind of an odd argument. Should all classes not get any new features in the high levels simply because most published campaigns won't get that far? If the level cap is going to be 20, then those higher levels should have interesting things for the players even if not all campaigns will reach them.
Brutal strike is the replacement for brutal critical, so it's the same level. As for coming in at high level: one of the classic problems with barbarian is that it doesn't get much of value past level 7. Fixing that requires... options that come on line at high level.
I never said that barbarian shouldn't get anything at higher levels. I said that barbarian needs basic Brutal Strike options sooner, and additional options to be added later. Inspiring warcries, frightening enemies around when dealing a killing blow, throwing enemies into one another, ramping up temporary HP to become even tankier. That sort of thing. Things to do, like with Cunning Strikes.
Barbarian is fine from 1-8. It doesn't need anything else in that bracket. Remember you have Weapon Mastery and Primal Knowledge there now too.
I think there's a balance to be struck; Brutal Criticals was a pretty forgettable feature on 5e Barbarian, when it triggered it could feel good to roll the extra dice, but only if you actually remembered it (so literally forgettable since it only had a ~5-10% chance to trigger). It's always been more of a "nice to have" than something that ever felt core to being a Barbarian, and in general anything that only happens on a critical hit is likely to be forgotten.
Brutal Strikes has the potential to be a much more significant core feature, though currently the way it triggers is messy, and gives Barbarians an interesting new option to consider so they're not just an "I hit things" class. So I can totally see the argument for Brutal Strikes to come earlier, but maybe scale somehow, and gain some additional abilities later.
I'm generally of the opinion that higher level features should be more about scaling up what you've already got, gaining higher damage dice, more options, etc. or features that are generally just supplementing things you can already do in some form. This way they're not missing from a class' core identity if you don't get to them, but you still feel like you're gaining by levelling up further. Really my ideal is for highest level features to be the class in its "ultimate" form, but you should never feel like there's anything missing if you only play into tier 2.
With Brutal Strikes in particular, as a 9th-level feature it's right on the cusp of being too late; if a campaign lasts until 10th-level then you can still get two levels out of it which is fine, but until that point the Barbarian is still mostly either "I hit things" or "I hit things recklessly". While it wouldn't be the end of the world if it stays there, I could definitely see it coming closer to the start of tier 2 (5th-, 6th- or 7th-level) so more players can get more mileage from it.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.