All adventures don’t have to happen in a city. Do you not have any downtime activities that take place in or near a city or town? Are you forever in the wilderness from levels 1 to 20 with no civilization? Or ever have to restock or recuperate after an earlier adventure? My group doesn’t play published adventures so if this is common in those I’ve had no experience with it
I don’t recall of it was you or another that pointed out in the summoning spell thread, when costly components was at issue, that you could plan ahead and have said components on hand in preparation of gaining the level to get the spell in question. Couldn’t a rogue do the same with standard adventuring gear?
I never said anything about "levels 1 to 20." But you could easily not have anything worth using Fast Hands with when you get your Thief subclass. That's not going to be a feel-good moment for the rogue player when everyone else has their new toys automatically.
wizard gets some free spells each level. seems like one fix would be to (officially in writing) provide a thief/rogue with a similar number of consumables each level. call it a result of downtime pickpocket practice or previously acquired trinkets turning out to have a use after all or bring your own plausibility. give a pick-or-roll list with a tame spread of potions and wands. viola.
I mean, they tried giving Kender a hammerspace ability like this and people kiboshed that, so I don't see them doing the same with an even less overtly magical subclass.
Plus by that point you might as well just make it a discreet feature rather than try and shoehorn it in under “Use Item”. At which point having magic items on top of it might be too much, and I believe a lot of people lobbied for that part.
wizard gets some free spells each level. seems like one fix would be to (officially in writing) provide a thief/rogue with a similar number of consumables each level. call it a result of downtime pickpocket practice or previously acquired trinkets turning out to have a use after all or bring your own plausibility. give a pick-or-roll list with a tame spread of potions and wands. viola.
I mean, they tried giving Kender a hammerspace ability like this and people kiboshed that, so I don't see them doing the same with an even less overtly magical subclass.
as was said above, examining too closely the conveniences of 5e could destroy this sweater. so, yes, those guys just having things in their pocket and not knowing how it got there is plausibility breaking. and by those guys, of course i mean wizards. so if we're okay with once-a-level free new wizard spells, then simple once-a-level free new identified rogue consumables just don't feel like a big ask. although, really i'm not married to the idea. i just feel compelled to brush off low effort gate keeping a few times before i drop something.
also, i resonate with the kender-didn't-work argument. that's a good point... although, bag of tricks does exist and many people enjoy it. shrug.
as was said above, examining too closely the conveniences of 5e could destroy this sweater. so, yes, those guys just having things in their pocket and not knowing how it got there is plausibility breaking. and by those guys, of course i mean wizards. so if we're okay with once-a-level free new wizard spells, then simple once-a-level free new identified rogue consumables just don't feel like a big ask.
I would actually call a more equivalent thing a component pouch; it contains an arbitrary collection of presumably low value items, so it seems fair to have similar capabilities for other equipment kits. This does require slightly more definition of low-value items, but "I just happen to be carrying an X" is a perfectly reasonable cinematic ability (and in fact something I've seen in a number of other RPGs).
as was said above, examining too closely the conveniences of 5e could destroy this sweater. so, yes, those guys just having things in their pocket and not knowing how it got there is plausibility breaking. and by those guys, of course i mean wizards. so if we're okay with once-a-level free new wizard spells, then simple once-a-level free new identified rogue consumables just don't feel like a big ask. although, really i'm not married to the idea. i just feel compelled to brush off low effort gate keeping a few times before i drop something.
Wizards don't wake up with items out of nowhere though, not even scrolls - they get to add those new spells straight to their spellbook. Ideas are intangible - just about anyone can conceive of waking up in the morning with a brilliant idea or breakthrough discovery and immediately writing it down, that requires no suspension of disbelief at all.
also, i resonate with the kender-didn't-work argument. that's a good point... although, bag of tricks does exist and many people enjoy it. shrug.
Indeed, and I have enjoyed it too. But the DM controls when you get one of those, it's not something that appears in your inventory automatically when you hit 3rd level, regardless of where you are when that happens.
as was said above, examining too closely the conveniences of 5e could destroy this sweater. so, yes, those guys just having things in their pocket and not knowing how it got there is plausibility breaking. and by those guys, of course i mean wizards. so if we're okay with once-a-level free new wizard spells, then simple once-a-level free new identified rogue consumables just don't feel like a big ask. although, really i'm not married to the idea. i just feel compelled to brush off low effort gate keeping a few times before i drop something.
Wizards don't wake up with items out of nowhere though, not even scrolls - they get to add those new spells straight to their spellbook. Ideas are intangible - just about anyone can conceive of waking up in the morning with a brilliant idea or breakthrough discovery and immediately writing it down, that requires no suspension of disbelief at all.
also, i resonate with the kender-didn't-work argument. that's a good point... although, bag of tricks does exist and many people enjoy it. shrug.
Indeed, and I have enjoyed it too. But the DM controls when you get one of those, it's not something that appears in your inventory automatically when you hit 3rd level, regardless of where you are when that happens.
I will point out the phb ranger's first companion just appears an is a player choice and even subsequently aquiring one is really just 8 hours of vague bonding.
Now many people don't like just leaving the explanation to such vague processes but the players/dms that did just allow it to be results first explanation second had a fine time with it.
Now I am a huge phb ranger fan but generally people prefer a little more solidity of such classe mechanics. Probably not a good move for consumables with non standard refresh rates or solid explanations. Found weapons, potions etc can mostly just do what the rules say no more or less. Npcs items are only carrying specificly usable things if the DM specified otherwise generic works.
as was said above, examining too closely the conveniences of 5e could destroy this sweater. so, yes, those guys just having things in their pocket and not knowing how it got there is plausibility breaking. and by those guys, of course i mean wizards. so if we're okay with once-a-level free new wizard spells, then simple once-a-level free new identified rogue consumables just don't feel like a big ask. although, really i'm not married to the idea. i just feel compelled to brush off low effort gate keeping a few times before i drop something.
Wizards don't wake up with items out of nowhere though, not even scrolls - they get to add those new spells straight to their spellbook. Ideas are intangible - just about anyone can conceive of waking up in the morning with a brilliant idea or breakthrough discovery and immediately writing it down, that requires no suspension of disbelief at all.
also, i resonate with the kender-didn't-work argument. that's a good point... although, bag of tricks does exist and many people enjoy it. shrug.
Indeed, and I have enjoyed it too. But the DM controls when you get one of those, it's not something that appears in your inventory automatically when you hit 3rd level, regardless of where you are when that happens.
I will point out the phb ranger's first companion just appears an is a player choice and even subsequently aquiring one is really just 8 hours of vague bonding.
Now many people don't like just leaving the explanation to such vague processes but the players/dms that did just allow it to be results first explanation second had a fine time with it.
Now I am a huge phb ranger fan but generally people prefer a little more solidity of such classe mechanics. Probably not a good move for consumables with non standard refresh rates.
(Yes I did just imply phb pets are consumables)
That's expressly a product of a magic ritual, since Rangers are always magic in 5e. Whereas both Rogues in general and Thieves in particular are not.
I wouldn't mind doubling down on thieves and items with some new abilities like
Improvised Tools (Level 3)
You are proficient with improvised weapons. Up to PB times per day, you may spend a minute to create an improvised tool, unless the DM rules that this is entirely implausible. This functions like a mundane item of adventuring gear with a value of up to 5 gp, except
Only you know how to use it.
You may add your proficiency bonus to checks to use it, and use your Dexterity save DC in place of it's normal save DC, if any.
The item ceases to function after you complete a long rest, unless you expend one of your uses to keep it working.
At level 9, the GP limit increases to 50.
Bag of Stuff (Level 9)
When you visit a merchant or shopping area, you may declare that you are shopping for a Bag of unspecified Stuff. Decide how much it weighs and how much it costs. After doing so, up to PB times you may reach into your bag of stuff and pull out any number of an item that would have been available where you were last shopping, as long as that many would have fit within the weight and cost of the bag (reduce the remaining weight and cost of your bag by the amount pulled out). When you use it the last time, or choose to get rid of it, any remaining cash is refunded. You may only have one such bag at a time.
That's expressly a product of a magic ritual, since Rangers are always magic in 5e. Whereas both Rogues in general and Thieves in particular are not.
And even if it wasn't magic - animals are living creatures, the DM can have them find you out in the world on their own. Stuff appearing in your pockets isn't alive! (Presumably.)
as was said above, examining too closely the conveniences of 5e could destroy this sweater. so, yes, those guys just having things in their pocket and not knowing how it got there is plausibility breaking. and by those guys, of course i mean wizards. so if we're okay with once-a-level free new wizard spells, then simple once-a-level free new identified rogue consumables just don't feel like a big ask.
I would actually call a more equivalent thing a component pouch; it contains an arbitrary collection of presumably low value items, so it seems fair to have similar capabilities for other equipment kits. This does require slightly more definition of low-value items, but "I just happen to be carrying an X" is a perfectly reasonable cinematic ability (and in fact something I've seen in a number of other RPGs).
you're right, i didn't even think of component pouches. but that's so grandfathered in it's not strange to me. what i do find absurd is that many groups see "add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free" and read that as free of gold and free of time. easy to hand-wave that as "the arcane research you conduct on your own" being mostly accomplished during misc rests and now requiring only a few dotted ies and crossed tees conveniently coinciding with level-up. but i'm fine with that too, if that's the temperature of the table i'm at. i just don't see why the same table that might tell the wizard to wait until a long rest or downtime to complete the scribing of their new 'free' spells couldn't also ask the rogue to narrate what gambling den or shoplifting spree or traded favor on the black market explains away their new acid vial or grenade or charm. my least concern was the quantum observational wave function collapse of how the potions got in the bag.
the real power i was recommending for rogue was the power to choose from a predetermined list without having to "mother may i" to the dm for the chance. but maybe that flexibility is a sacred cow of spellcasting.
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you're right, i didn't even think of component pouches. but that's so grandfathered in it's not strange to me. what i do find absurd is that many groups see "add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free" and read that as free of gold and free of time. easy to hand-wave that as "the arcane research you conduct on your own" being mostly accomplished during misc rests and now requiring only a few dotted ies and crossed tees conveniently coinciding with level-up. but i'm fine with that too, if that's the temperature of the table i'm at. i just don't see why the same table that might tell the wizard to wait until a long rest or downtime to complete the scribing of their new 'free' spells couldn't also ask the rogue to narrate what gambling den or shoplifting spree or traded favor on the black market explains away their new acid vial or grenade or charm. my least concern was the quantum observational wave function collapse of how the potions got in the bag.
the real power i was recommending for rogue was the power to choose from a predetermined list without having to "mother may i" to the dm for the chance. but maybe that flexibility is a sacred cow of spellcasting.
Because it's not the same size handwave and I think you know that. Researching/practicing a new spell before finally adding it to the book is something that can be done completely solo, so it doesn't matter if the party is out in the remote wilderness, crossing a desert/ocean, plumbing the depths of a cave system/dungeon etc. - wizard levels up, they've put the finishing touches on the thing they were studying that whole time.
Even the component pouch largely doesn't need to be restocked - unlike prior editions, the stuff in it generally isn't consumed in 5e, so buying the pouch once is evergreen, it's basically a spell focus you can tie to your belt. Even if the contents did need restocking, (a) it doesn't contain anything costly, so no shopping needed, and (b) largely consists of things the group can forage for in most environments even if you did feel the need to zoom in on a restocking scene for some reason.
As for "mother may I" - generally I'd say the equipment chapter is fair game for most characters. The issue is merely that you might not be near a settlement when you level up and thus need to wait a while. I don't think there's anything wrong with that per se, but it does mean the feature is low-power enough that they could justify folding it into the base rogue if they wanted.
you're right, i didn't even think of component pouches. but that's so grandfathered in it's not strange to me. what i do find absurd is that many groups see "add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free" and read that as free of gold and free of time. easy to hand-wave that as "the arcane research you conduct on your own" being mostly accomplished during misc rests and now requiring only a few dotted ies and crossed tees conveniently coinciding with level-up. but i'm fine with that too, if that's the temperature of the table i'm at. i just don't see why the same table that might tell the wizard to wait until a long rest or downtime to complete the scribing of their new 'free' spells couldn't also ask the rogue to narrate what gambling den or shoplifting spree or traded favor on the black market explains away their new acid vial or grenade or charm. my least concern was the quantum observational wave function collapse of how the potions got in the bag.
the real power i was recommending for rogue was the power to choose from a predetermined list without having to "mother may i" to the dm for the chance. but maybe that flexibility is a sacred cow of spellcasting.
Because it's not the same size handwave and I think you know that. Researching/practicing a new spell before finally adding it to the book is something that can be done completely solo, so it doesn't matter if the party is out in the remote wilderness, crossing a desert/ocean, plumbing the depths of a cave system/dungeon etc. - wizard levels up, they've put the finishing touches on the thing they were studying that whole time.
Even the component pouch largely doesn't need to be restocked - unlike prior editions, the stuff in it generally isn't consumed in 5e, so buying the pouch once is evergreen, it's basically a spell focus you can tie to your belt. Even if the contents did need restocking, (a) it doesn't contain anything costly, so no shopping needed, and (b) largely consists of things the group can forage for in most environments even if you did feel the need to zoom in on a restocking scene for some reason.
As for "mother may I" - generally I'd say the equipment chapter is fair game for most characters. The issue is merely that you might not be near a settlement when you level up and thus need to wait a while. I don't think there's anything wrong with that per se, but it does mean the feature is low-power enough that they could justify folding it into the base rogue if they wanted.
so then the potion or whatever is earmarked to be earned next time they're in town. dust-off-my-hands emoji. just like some wizard players might earmark their two new spells to activate/appear/coalesce after a long rest, perhaps even waiting until next time they're in town. personally, i really like it when players put that kind of thought into letting their character breathe.
as for "and i think you know that," weren't you just dunking on me for allegedly offering to hand out bags of tricks to level 3 rogues? even though i didn't say that? okay. well, i'm not advocating for a big power swing here either.
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so then the potion or whatever is earmarked to be earned next time they're in town. dust-off-my-hands emoji. just like some wizard players might earmark their two new spells to activate/appear/coalesce after a long rest, perhaps even waiting until next time they're in town. personally, i really like it when players put that kind of thought into letting their character breathe.
as for "and i think you know that," weren't you just dunking on me for allegedly offering to hand out bags of tricks to level 3 rogues? even though i didn't say that? okay. well, i'm not advocating for a big power swing here either.
It's "dunking" to point out that magic items are the DM's prerogative? Uh, okay...
And sure, you can earmark any piece of equipment, but having it appear before you actually go to town is the issue.
Another example of objects mechanically appearing was the lizardfolk crafted bone weapons and tools.
Same as before, while I thought it was interesting, wotc errata'd the race to no longer include such mechanics.
Similarly artificer was restricted on consumables ad because huge contention points online and presumably at tables. So as much as artificer is loved, wotc needed time to work it out for desired satisfaction rates.
Things that can be saved without expiration can unbalance play but things that do expire risk the zone of power that never actualize (see jcs video about potential power of class design)
Such mechanics built-in to the class have to be designed well or avoided. No middle ground efforts. So generally wotc will avoid it.
Things that can be saved without expiration can unbalance play but things that do expire risk the zone of power that never actualize (see jcs video about potential power of class design)
This is only true, because we live in a post-videogame world where players expect to just be able to carry around 1000 potions and drink them in the middle of combat with at no penalty. But honestly, balance is kind of overrated. People break the balance of videogames all the time, yet people still find them fun to play. Heck back when videogames were really difficult loads of people used cheat codes to make it easier.
I honestly think WotC should just revamp the DMG to have more guidance & rules to be used to change the difficulty of the game to suit different tables, and some should appear in the PHB too so players understand the social contract of designing characters with relatively equal power across a party, and not trying to overshadow each other.
so then the potion or whatever is earmarked to be earned next time they're in town. dust-off-my-hands emoji. just like some wizard players might earmark their two new spells to activate/appear/coalesce after a long rest, perhaps even waiting until next time they're in town. personally, i really like it when players put that kind of thought into letting their character breathe.
as for "and i think you know that," weren't you just dunking on me for allegedly offering to hand out bags of tricks to level 3 rogues? even though i didn't say that? okay. well, i'm not advocating for a big power swing here either.
It's "dunking" to point out that magic items are the DM's prerogative? Uh, okay...
And sure, you can earmark any piece of equipment, but having it appear before you actually go to town is the issue.
maybe i misunderstood your comment. perhaps you were only pointing out that when a bag of tricks is given, it's not teleported to someone's inventory. but it came across to me as "the dm is the one who gives out regenerative magic items, if you didn't know." and if so missed, it's only because i am so incredibly uninterested in how the items get into a bag right now that i didn't register a salient point being made. the question of how is almost certain to be left vague because 5e.
brawler, name-checked in the title of the thread, sparked some interest in improvised combat. plus there's bomb chuckin' rogues in media to pull tropes from: Zelda's Link, Rikku/Yuffie/Shadow from Final Fantasy, Malazan Book of the Fallen, etc. it could be fun to discuss the impact of an un-magical class (or sub-class) officially devoting resources towards consumables use. instead we're stuck in the mud with logistics issues.
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Things that can be saved without expiration can unbalance play but things that do expire risk the zone of power that never actualize (see jcs video about potential power of class design)
This is only true, because we live in a post-videogame world where players expect to just be able to carry around 1000 potions and drink them in the middle of combat with at no penalty. But honestly, balance is kind of overrated. People break the balance of videogames all the time, yet people still find them fun to play. Heck back when videogames were really difficult loads of people used cheat codes to make it easier.
I honestly think WotC should just revamp the DMG to have more guidance & rules to be used to change the difficulty of the game to suit different tables, and some should appear in the PHB too so players understand the social contract of designing characters with relatively equal power across a party, and not trying to overshadow each other.
Careful we might accidentally agree on something. I was stating what I thought wotc was designing not weather I thought it was good play experience.
I'm not sure videogames are too blame but yes the principles of dms tailoring difficulty or class balance via items, senarios or x factors is a good one. You can even scale players experiences to where optimization an non can both engage in their "fun" at the same table. Actually training it in all dms would be great.
This mentality is why I (and takes I play with) can find ways to make even phb monks play fine or allow phb rangers to experience the fun they want without breaking anything.
Another example of objects mechanically appearing was the lizardfolk crafted bone weapons and tools.
Those didn't appear from the ether either though, you needed corpses and such. So if a Thief could craft some Fast Hands equipment in the field, like caltrops out of teeth/fangs, I would get that.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind rules for that kind of "savage crafting" in general. If such an ability does need to exist, it shouldn't be lizardfolk-exclusive, there's all kinds of savage/tribal peoples that could do that sort of thing. It should be a background feat(ure).
maybe i misunderstood your comment. perhaps you were only pointing out that when a bag of tricks is given, it's not teleported to someone's inventory. but it came across to me as "the dm is the one who gives out regenerative magic items, if you didn't know." and if so missed, it's only because i am so incredibly uninterested in how the items get into a bag right now that i didn't register a salient point being made. the question of how is almost certain to be left vague because 5e.
It was the former. As far as how items get into a bag, the trouble with Rogues and Fighters is that the base class can't get too overly magical / handwavey. Crawfrod explicitly commented on it one of the UA videos where he mentioned every other class is allowed to have some basic level of mysticism, even Barbarian and Monk, but not those two - because that's a fantasy many people enjoy being in the game, being the Badass Normal.
maybe i misunderstood your comment. perhaps you were only pointing out that when a bag of tricks is given, it's not teleported to someone's inventory. but it came across to me as "the dm is the one who gives out regenerative magic items, if you didn't know." and if so missed, it's only because i am so incredibly uninterested in how the items get into a bag right now that i didn't register a salient point being made. the question of how is almost certain to be left vague because 5e.
It was the former. As far as how items get into a bag, the trouble with Rogues and Fighters is that the base class can't get too overly magical / handwavey. Crawfrod explicitly commented on it one of the UA videos where he mentioned every other class is allowed to have some basic level of mysticism, even Barbarian and Monk, but not those two - because that's a fantasy many people enjoy being in the game, being the Badass Normal.
it's plausible for a master craftsperson to have not-sold-in-stores chemistry-adjacent trade secrets and the rogue is, as they level up, becoming a master at the craft of being a rogue (whatever that means to them). graphite for quiet door hinges, chalk powder for climbing grip, deicing for locks in winter, peroxide for tracking blood, adhesive solvent, adhesive fixative, smoke grenades, insect repellent, etc... a non-exhaustive list of chemistry potentially connected to rogue activities. the path forward to a mundane rogue having stuff isn't impossible to imagine even if sticky fingers and underworld contacts aren't accounted for. what fun.
anyway, future books should include a suggestion of whats in typical monster pockets including a few uncommon consumables particular to that type of monster. it would be fun to see some variance in monster actions at low levels and it might be fun to pick their pocket in combat. maybe kobold press monsters can do that for us.
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unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
maybe i misunderstood your comment. perhaps you were only pointing out that when a bag of tricks is given, it's not teleported to someone's inventory. but it came across to me as "the dm is the one who gives out regenerative magic items, if you didn't know." and if so missed, it's only because i am so incredibly uninterested in how the items get into a bag right now that i didn't register a salient point being made. the question of how is almost certain to be left vague because 5e.
It was the former. As far as how items get into a bag, the trouble with Rogues and Fighters is that the base class can't get too overly magical / handwavey. Crawfrod explicitly commented on it one of the UA videos where he mentioned every other class is allowed to have some basic level of mysticism, even Barbarian and Monk, but not those two - because that's a fantasy many people enjoy being in the game, being the Badass Normal.
it's plausible for a master craftsperson to have not-sold-in-stores chemistry-adjacent trade secrets and the rogue is, as they level up, becoming a master at the craft of being a rogue (whatever that means to them). graphite for quiet door hinges, chalk powder for climbing grip, deicing for locks in winter, peroxide for tracking blood, adhesive solvent, adhesive fixative, smoke grenades, insect repellent, etc... a non-exhaustive list of chemistry potentially connected to rogue activities. the path forward to a mundane rogue having stuff isn't impossible to imagine even if sticky fingers and underworld contacts aren't accounted for. what fun.
anyway, future books should include a suggestion of whats in typical monster pockets including a few uncommon consumables particular to that type of monster. it would be fun to see some variance in monster actions at low levels and it might be fun to pick their pocket in combat. maybe kobold press monsters can do that for us.
They have more specific loot tables in stuff like Bigby’s and Fizban’s, but I wouldn’t hold my breath on more universal ones. Consumables aren’t a part of their core calculations for CR on the enemy side, so it seems unlikely they’ll move to directly incorporate them into the loadout.
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"A lot of work" in this case means "a completely unreasonable quantity of work, equivalent to rewriting the monster manual".
Plus by that point you might as well just make it a discreet feature rather than try and shoehorn it in under “Use Item”. At which point having magic items on top of it might be too much, and I believe a lot of people lobbied for that part.
as was said above, examining too closely the conveniences of 5e could destroy this sweater. so, yes, those guys just having things in their pocket and not knowing how it got there is plausibility breaking. and by those guys, of course i mean wizards. so if we're okay with once-a-level free new wizard spells, then simple once-a-level free new identified rogue consumables just don't feel like a big ask. although, really i'm not married to the idea. i just feel compelled to brush off low effort gate keeping a few times before i drop something.
also, i resonate with the kender-didn't-work argument. that's a good point... although, bag of tricks does exist and many people enjoy it. shrug.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
I would actually call a more equivalent thing a component pouch; it contains an arbitrary collection of presumably low value items, so it seems fair to have similar capabilities for other equipment kits. This does require slightly more definition of low-value items, but "I just happen to be carrying an X" is a perfectly reasonable cinematic ability (and in fact something I've seen in a number of other RPGs).
Wizards don't wake up with items out of nowhere though, not even scrolls - they get to add those new spells straight to their spellbook. Ideas are intangible - just about anyone can conceive of waking up in the morning with a brilliant idea or breakthrough discovery and immediately writing it down, that requires no suspension of disbelief at all.
Indeed, and I have enjoyed it too. But the DM controls when you get one of those, it's not something that appears in your inventory automatically when you hit 3rd level, regardless of where you are when that happens.
I will point out the phb ranger's first companion just appears an is a player choice and even subsequently aquiring one is really just 8 hours of vague bonding.
Now many people don't like just leaving the explanation to such vague processes but the players/dms that did just allow it to be results first explanation second had a fine time with it.
Now I am a huge phb ranger fan but generally people prefer a little more solidity of such classe mechanics. Probably not a good move for consumables with non standard refresh rates or solid explanations. Found weapons, potions etc can mostly just do what the rules say no more or less. Npcs items are only carrying specificly usable things if the DM specified otherwise generic works.
(Yes I did just imply phb pets are consumables)
That's expressly a product of a magic ritual, since Rangers are always magic in 5e. Whereas both Rogues in general and Thieves in particular are not.
I wouldn't mind doubling down on thieves and items with some new abilities like
Improvised Tools (Level 3)
You are proficient with improvised weapons. Up to PB times per day, you may spend a minute to create an improvised tool, unless the DM rules that this is entirely implausible. This functions like a mundane item of adventuring gear with a value of up to 5 gp, except
At level 9, the GP limit increases to 50.
Bag of Stuff (Level 9)
When you visit a merchant or shopping area, you may declare that you are shopping for a Bag of unspecified Stuff. Decide how much it weighs and how much it costs. After doing so, up to PB times you may reach into your bag of stuff and pull out any number of an item that would have been available where you were last shopping, as long as that many would have fit within the weight and cost of the bag (reduce the remaining weight and cost of your bag by the amount pulled out). When you use it the last time, or choose to get rid of it, any remaining cash is refunded. You may only have one such bag at a time.
And even if it wasn't magic - animals are living creatures, the DM can have them find you out in the world on their own. Stuff appearing in your pockets isn't alive! (Presumably.)
you're right, i didn't even think of component pouches. but that's so grandfathered in it's not strange to me. what i do find absurd is that many groups see "add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free" and read that as free of gold and free of time. easy to hand-wave that as "the arcane research you conduct on your own" being mostly accomplished during misc rests and now requiring only a few dotted ies and crossed tees conveniently coinciding with level-up. but i'm fine with that too, if that's the temperature of the table i'm at. i just don't see why the same table that might tell the wizard to wait until a long rest or downtime to complete the scribing of their new 'free' spells couldn't also ask the rogue to narrate what gambling den or shoplifting spree or traded favor on the black market explains away their new acid vial or grenade or charm. my least concern was the quantum observational wave function collapse of how the potions got in the bag.
the real power i was recommending for rogue was the power to choose from a predetermined list without having to "mother may i" to the dm for the chance. but maybe that flexibility is a sacred cow of spellcasting.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Because it's not the same size handwave and I think you know that. Researching/practicing a new spell before finally adding it to the book is something that can be done completely solo, so it doesn't matter if the party is out in the remote wilderness, crossing a desert/ocean, plumbing the depths of a cave system/dungeon etc. - wizard levels up, they've put the finishing touches on the thing they were studying that whole time.
Even the component pouch largely doesn't need to be restocked - unlike prior editions, the stuff in it generally isn't consumed in 5e, so buying the pouch once is evergreen, it's basically a spell focus you can tie to your belt. Even if the contents did need restocking, (a) it doesn't contain anything costly, so no shopping needed, and (b) largely consists of things the group can forage for in most environments even if you did feel the need to zoom in on a restocking scene for some reason.
As for "mother may I" - generally I'd say the equipment chapter is fair game for most characters. The issue is merely that you might not be near a settlement when you level up and thus need to wait a while. I don't think there's anything wrong with that per se, but it does mean the feature is low-power enough that they could justify folding it into the base rogue if they wanted.
so then the potion or whatever is earmarked to be earned next time they're in town. dust-off-my-hands emoji. just like some wizard players might earmark their two new spells to activate/appear/coalesce after a long rest, perhaps even waiting until next time they're in town. personally, i really like it when players put that kind of thought into letting their character breathe.
as for "and i think you know that," weren't you just dunking on me for allegedly offering to hand out bags of tricks to level 3 rogues? even though i didn't say that? okay. well, i'm not advocating for a big power swing here either.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
It's "dunking" to point out that magic items are the DM's prerogative? Uh, okay...
And sure, you can earmark any piece of equipment, but having it appear before you actually go to town is the issue.
Another example of objects mechanically appearing was the lizardfolk crafted bone weapons and tools.
Same as before, while I thought it was interesting, wotc errata'd the race to no longer include such mechanics.
Similarly artificer was restricted on consumables ad because huge contention points online and presumably at tables. So as much as artificer is loved, wotc needed time to work it out for desired satisfaction rates.
Things that can be saved without expiration can unbalance play but things that do expire risk the zone of power that never actualize (see jcs video about potential power of class design)
Such mechanics built-in to the class have to be designed well or avoided. No middle ground efforts. So generally wotc will avoid it.
This is only true, because we live in a post-videogame world where players expect to just be able to carry around 1000 potions and drink them in the middle of combat with at no penalty. But honestly, balance is kind of overrated. People break the balance of videogames all the time, yet people still find them fun to play. Heck back when videogames were really difficult loads of people used cheat codes to make it easier.
I honestly think WotC should just revamp the DMG to have more guidance & rules to be used to change the difficulty of the game to suit different tables, and some should appear in the PHB too so players understand the social contract of designing characters with relatively equal power across a party, and not trying to overshadow each other.
maybe i misunderstood your comment. perhaps you were only pointing out that when a bag of tricks is given, it's not teleported to someone's inventory. but it came across to me as "the dm is the one who gives out regenerative magic items, if you didn't know." and if so missed, it's only because i am so incredibly uninterested in how the items get into a bag right now that i didn't register a salient point being made. the question of how is almost certain to be left vague because 5e.
brawler, name-checked in the title of the thread, sparked some interest in improvised combat. plus there's bomb chuckin' rogues in media to pull tropes from: Zelda's Link, Rikku/Yuffie/Shadow from Final Fantasy, Malazan Book of the Fallen, etc. it could be fun to discuss the impact of an un-magical class (or sub-class) officially devoting resources towards consumables use. instead we're stuck in the mud with logistics issues.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Careful we might accidentally agree on something. I was stating what I thought wotc was designing not weather I thought it was good play experience.
I'm not sure videogames are too blame but yes the principles of dms tailoring difficulty or class balance via items, senarios or x factors is a good one. You can even scale players experiences to where optimization an non can both engage in their "fun" at the same table. Actually training it in all dms would be great.
This mentality is why I (and takes I play with) can find ways to make even phb monks play fine or allow phb rangers to experience the fun they want without breaking anything.
Those didn't appear from the ether either though, you needed corpses and such. So if a Thief could craft some Fast Hands equipment in the field, like caltrops out of teeth/fangs, I would get that.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind rules for that kind of "savage crafting" in general. If such an ability does need to exist, it shouldn't be lizardfolk-exclusive, there's all kinds of savage/tribal peoples that could do that sort of thing. It should be a background feat(ure).
It was the former. As far as how items get into a bag, the trouble with Rogues and Fighters is that the base class can't get too overly magical / handwavey. Crawfrod explicitly commented on it one of the UA videos where he mentioned every other class is allowed to have some basic level of mysticism, even Barbarian and Monk, but not those two - because that's a fantasy many people enjoy being in the game, being the Badass Normal.
it's plausible for a master craftsperson to have not-sold-in-stores chemistry-adjacent trade secrets and the rogue is, as they level up, becoming a master at the craft of being a rogue (whatever that means to them). graphite for quiet door hinges, chalk powder for climbing grip, deicing for locks in winter, peroxide for tracking blood, adhesive solvent, adhesive fixative, smoke grenades, insect repellent, etc... a non-exhaustive list of chemistry potentially connected to rogue activities. the path forward to a mundane rogue having stuff isn't impossible to imagine even if sticky fingers and underworld contacts aren't accounted for. what fun.
anyway, future books should include a suggestion of whats in typical monster pockets including a few uncommon consumables particular to that type of monster. it would be fun to see some variance in monster actions at low levels and it might be fun to pick their pocket in combat. maybe kobold press monsters can do that for us.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
They have more specific loot tables in stuff like Bigby’s and Fizban’s, but I wouldn’t hold my breath on more universal ones. Consumables aren’t a part of their core calculations for CR on the enemy side, so it seems unlikely they’ll move to directly incorporate them into the loadout.