RemoveAnimate Objects – it's suffer from too minions spell and requires concentration, which you will use for your curses.
AddConjure Volley – this keeps the weapon-based theme and serves as a thematic replacement for Cone of Cold. You retain that classic "area burst" feel while staying more aligned with the subclass flavor.
I'd just want Cone of Cold. More resisted, but MUCH cooler. :)
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DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
RemoveAnimate Objects – it's suffer from too minions spell and requires concentration, which you will use for your curses.
AddConjure Volley – this keeps the weapon-based theme and serves as a thematic replacement for Cone of Cold. You retain that classic "area burst" feel while staying more aligned with the subclass flavor.
I'd just want Cone of Cold. More resisted, but MUCH cooler. :)
I also like Cone of Cone ! I just giving ideas to the D&D Teams. Animated Objects has nothing to do with Hexblade. I
Soo, i completed some extensive testing of this hexblade, 4 builds, levels 1-18.
conclusions is offense, defense, utility wise the hexblade has NO issues, they breeze through 1-10 on easy mode, they can handle 11-15 as well or better than most, and in t4, well foresight is pretty great. level 8 and 9 spells, tons of pact slots.
The main issue with the subclass isnt exactly power, but rather feeling good. The hexblade curse feature is unclear in its meaning, but regardless it has issues.
1. 3-5 monster kills per day seems pretty small, this is mitigated at 14, but 14 is pretty high level. If the hexcurse can be transfered with the hex spell, it puts a lot of spell pressure on using/ keeping the hex spell going as long as possible. While not unworkable, it might be seen as too dominant.
2. spell pressure is high from like 3-10, only having two base spells without a 3-5 free spell feature (like fey wanderer or okd hexblade) with a melee focused class, hex linked class having strong incentives to just use 1 hex like spell and 1 defensive spell if you get into a rough situation, makes it very repetitive, and it feel like you have to the same thing all the time with no real choices. This eases up with level 11 which prings 3 pact slots and 2 from magical cunning, but again thats a long time.
3. Aaplying hexcurse early on while not using a curse is pretty annoying, especially since hex becomes less optimal as you get higher, and hex gets replace by things like spirit shroud. Especially since the design of hexcurse is to be very useful, very quickly on the most dangerous enemies. Turn 1 hexcurse, but low damage/defense, or turn 1 defense/damage good but no hexcurse, when the group needs this monster killed or distracted seems pretty cross purpose.
the rest is pretty solid. defense while close to a target is more interesting gameplay than always on defense, hindering curse is great for setting up powerful debuffs for the team. being able to strike with a weapon after casting is great, no turn feels sub par. Unyielding will is fun and very useful. The level 14 features are pretty on point, though the explosion feature seems undertuned for a level 5 slot. but frankly, the power level of the class is fine, so its nota huge deal. They have a lot of great spells to cast, so if they only use it once per day thats fine.
my testing assumed the 3-5 uses, and that was probably the biggest issue. making it essentially one monster per encounter, and running out for some builds in the 4rth battle. id say they should at the least have 5-7 uses, if thats the route they want to go
But, but Gwar...it doesn't have medium armor and shields. It CAN'T be fine! it just can't. /s
100% agree though. It works, but is not well designed.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
We're getting close, but the subclass still needs some key adjustments.
1) Spell List Adjustments
Remove Animate Objects – It suffers from being a "too many minions" spell and requires concentration, which clashes with your curse spells.
Add Conjure Volley – A perfect thematic replacement for Cone of Cold. It keeps the weapon-based feel while offering a classic "area burst" effect that fits the subclass flavor better.
2) Hexblade’s Curse Bring back the classic curse. It was always the defining feature of the Hexblade – iconic, flavorful, and mechanically satisfying. Its absence is deeply felt.
3) Armor and Shield Proficiency It’s unclear why there's so much reluctance here. The current +2 conditional shield feels off:
You kill your target... and suddenly become weaker? That’s backwards design. Just restore armor and shield proficiencies like in the original.
4) Level 6 – Malign Brutality
We've lost Accursed Specter – why? At least allow Summon Undead as a replacement. Make it last 10 minutes with concentration, just like similar features in other subclasses.
Inescapable Hex feels too situational and you get wrecked by opportunity attacks.
5) Level 14 – Masterful Hex (Capstone) This capstone needs a serious boost. Right now, it’s underwhelming for a 14th-level feature. Suggestions:
Gain advantage on all d20 checks and attack rolls against cursed or hexed targets.
But, but Gwar...it doesn't have medium armor and shields. It CAN'T be fine! it just can't. /s
100% agree though. It works, but is not well designed.
warlock, if you try is pretty tough, tough+ fiendish vigor, and con 2ndary focus gives you a lot of HP, and they have strong defensive or control spells, hexblade just adds to that. Personally i think its pretty well designed other than some tweaks to hexblade's curse, but people will differ
The reason Animate Objects is there is because people wanted more BLADE in their HexBLADE.
It's already intruding on Ranger Spells with Conjure Barrage, so Conjure Volley might be too much of that.
I say bring back Cone of Cold. At least that's useful & prevents easy reviving by turning corpses into frozen statues.
Conjure barrage is exactly that feel to summon multiply weapons like in fantasy animation. but I think Cone of Cone is OK since Its classic. I very dislike Animated Object , too many actions and its far from the feel of having an accursed specter.
We're getting close, but the subclass still needs some key adjustments.
1) Spell List Adjustments
Remove Animate Objects – It suffers from being a "too many minions" spell and requires concentration, which clashes with your curse spells.
Add Conjure Volley – A perfect thematic replacement for Cone of Cold. It keeps the weapon-based feel while offering a classic "area burst" effect that fits the subclass flavor better.
2) Hexblade’s Curse Bring back the classic curse. It was always the defining feature of the Hexblade – iconic, flavorful, and mechanically satisfying. Its absence is deeply felt.
3) Armor and Shield Proficiency It’s unclear why there's so much reluctance here. The current +2 conditional shield feels off:
You kill your target... and suddenly become weaker? That’s backwards design. Just restore armor and shield proficiencies like in the original.
4) Level 6 – Malign Brutality
We've lost Accursed Specter – why? At least allow Summon Undead as a replacement. Make it last 10 minutes with concentration, just like similar features in other subclasses.
Inescapable Hex feels too situational and you get wrecked by opportunity attacks.
5) Level 14 – Masterful Hex (Capstone) This capstone needs a serious boost. Right now, it’s underwhelming for a 14th-level feature. Suggestions:
Gain advantage on all d20 checks and attack rolls against cursed or hexed targets.
Increase damage against cursed targets by +2d6.
the old hexblade was too frontloaded. and the curse's damage buff is too good with the 2024 changes to blade pact. Warlock already offers a hell of a lot for 3 level dip. 19 crit, +prof damage per hit, 4 spells, and medium armor and shields is kinda ridiculous.
i tested out the current version, and level 1-5 was easy, even though thats usually the deadly levels. They definitely dont need all of that at level 3. and, the + PB damage is kinda ridiculous scaling. bladepact warriors can attack 5 times per turn with dual wielding builds, so you would be talking about 30 damage per round, just from the level 3 feat, not too mention every multi attack class would have to dip 3 levels for this+19crit
within the class it would be OP. you are talking dual wielders, doing d6+2d8+5+6*5. and thats nit even optimized, thats just spirit shroud precast + curse.
as for the armor/shields the class/subclass has to choose between AC and Con, and thats good, because it opens two build paths, but also because the warlock hexblade with 15 ac (with magic armor) and decent con, is already a beast. (and 17 ac sometimes) giving them 19 ac at all times is totally unneccesary. Maybe if the subclasses identity was a super tank, but its not. Also, its just begging for a defensive turret build. 19+ AC regardless of dustance, best damage with a shield = d10+5+2d8x4.
If the goal is just to give people a (over)powerful subclass, sure, but if the goal is to have something somewhat balanced, with a melee focused playstyle and the fantasy of embodying weapons/martial play, i dont think some of those suggestions work towards that.
We're getting close, but the subclass still needs some key adjustments.
1) Spell List Adjustments
Remove Animate Objects – It suffers from being a "too many minions" spell and requires concentration, which clashes with your curse spells.
Add Conjure Volley – A perfect thematic replacement for Cone of Cold. It keeps the weapon-based feel while offering a classic "area burst" effect that fits the subclass flavor better.
2) Hexblade’s Curse Bring back the classic curse. It was always the defining feature of the Hexblade – iconic, flavorful, and mechanically satisfying. Its absence is deeply felt.
3) Armor and Shield Proficiency It’s unclear why there's so much reluctance here. The current +2 conditional shield feels off:
You kill your target... and suddenly become weaker? That’s backwards design. Just restore armor and shield proficiencies like in the original.
4) Level 6 – Malign Brutality
We've lost Accursed Specter – why? At least allow Summon Undead as a replacement. Make it last 10 minutes with concentration, just like similar features in other subclasses.
Inescapable Hex feels too situational and you get wrecked by opportunity attacks.
5) Level 14 – Masterful Hex (Capstone) This capstone needs a serious boost. Right now, it’s underwhelming for a 14th-level feature. Suggestions:
Gain advantage on all d20 checks and attack rolls against cursed or hexed targets.
Increase damage against cursed targets by +2d6.
the old hexblade was too frontloaded. and the curse's damage buff is too good with the 2024 changes to blade pact. Warlock already offers a hell of a lot for 3 level dip. 19 crit, +prof damage per hit, 4 spells, and medium armor and shields is kinda ridiculous.
i tested out the current version, and level 1-5 was easy, even though thats usually the deadly levels. They definitely dont need all of that at level 3. and, the + PB damage is kinda ridiculous scaling. bladepact warriors can attack 5 times per turn with dual wielding builds, so you would be talking about 30 damage per round, just from the level 3 feat, not too mention every multi attack class would have to dip 3 levels for this+19crit
within the class it would be OP. you are talking dual wielders, doing d6+2d8+5+6*5. and thats nit even optimized, thats just spirit shroud precast + curse.
as for the armor/shields the class/subclass has to choose between AC and Con, and thats good, because it opens two build paths, but also because the warlock hexblade with 15 ac (with magic armor) and decent con, is already a beast. (and 17 ac sometimes) giving them 19 ac at all times is totally unneccesary. Maybe if the subclasses identity was a super tank, but its not. Also, its just begging for a defensive turret build. 19+ AC regardless of dustance, best damage with a shield = d10+5+2d8x4.
If the goal is just to give people a (over)powerful subclass, sure, but if the goal is to have something somewhat balanced, with a melee focused playstyle and the fantasy of embodying weapons/martial play, i dont think some of those suggestions work towards that.
I strongly disagree with you. Just because you tested something doesn’t automatically make your opinion correct — it’s still just that: your opinion. In fact, several content creators who dedicate themselves to analyzing and playing the game also disagree with your take.
The pure Hexblade class has never been the real issue. The main criticism was always about taking a single-level dip into Hexblade — and I agree that was a bit too strong. But let’s be honest, multiclassing has always been where balance breaks down.
As a melee-focused Warlock, the Hexblade is more of a glass cannon. You lack proficiency in STR and CON saves, have only a d8 hit die, and you're heavily reliant on armor just to stay alive. Saying that melee Hexblades should focus only on DEX (just for armor) and CON misses the point — you need a balanced stat spread to survive, maintain concentration, and avoid getting wrecked in melee.
Choosing to fight in melee instead of relying on Eldritch Blast should be rewarded, not penalized. And it already requires significant investment through Warlock invocations. It’s a unique playstyle — one that demands full commitment — and it deserves proper support, not dismissal.
We're getting close, but the subclass still needs some key adjustments.
1) Spell List Adjustments
Remove Animate Objects – It suffers from being a "too many minions" spell and requires concentration, which clashes with your curse spells.
Add Conjure Volley – A perfect thematic replacement for Cone of Cold. It keeps the weapon-based feel while offering a classic "area burst" effect that fits the subclass flavor better.
2) Hexblade’s Curse Bring back the classic curse. It was always the defining feature of the Hexblade – iconic, flavorful, and mechanically satisfying. Its absence is deeply felt.
3) Armor and Shield Proficiency It’s unclear why there's so much reluctance here. The current +2 conditional shield feels off:
You kill your target... and suddenly become weaker? That’s backwards design. Just restore armor and shield proficiencies like in the original.
4) Level 6 – Malign Brutality
We've lost Accursed Specter – why? At least allow Summon Undead as a replacement. Make it last 10 minutes with concentration, just like similar features in other subclasses.
Inescapable Hex feels too situational and you get wrecked by opportunity attacks.
5) Level 14 – Masterful Hex (Capstone) This capstone needs a serious boost. Right now, it’s underwhelming for a 14th-level feature. Suggestions:
Gain advantage on all d20 checks and attack rolls against cursed or hexed targets.
Increase damage against cursed targets by +2d6.
the old hexblade was too frontloaded. and the curse's damage buff is too good with the 2024 changes to blade pact. Warlock already offers a hell of a lot for 3 level dip. 19 crit, +prof damage per hit, 4 spells, and medium armor and shields is kinda ridiculous.
i tested out the current version, and level 1-5 was easy, even though thats usually the deadly levels. They definitely dont need all of that at level 3. and, the + PB damage is kinda ridiculous scaling. bladepact warriors can attack 5 times per turn with dual wielding builds, so you would be talking about 30 damage per round, just from the level 3 feat, not too mention every multi attack class would have to dip 3 levels for this+19crit
within the class it would be OP. you are talking dual wielders, doing d6+2d8+5+6*5. and thats nit even optimized, thats just spirit shroud precast + curse.
as for the armor/shields the class/subclass has to choose between AC and Con, and thats good, because it opens two build paths, but also because the warlock hexblade with 15 ac (with magic armor) and decent con, is already a beast. (and 17 ac sometimes) giving them 19 ac at all times is totally unneccesary. Maybe if the subclasses identity was a super tank, but its not. Also, its just begging for a defensive turret build. 19+ AC regardless of dustance, best damage with a shield = d10+5+2d8x4.
If the goal is just to give people a (over)powerful subclass, sure, but if the goal is to have something somewhat balanced, with a melee focused playstyle and the fantasy of embodying weapons/martial play, i dont think some of those suggestions work towards that.
I strongly disagree with you. Just because you tested something doesn’t automatically make your opinion correct — it’s still just that: your opinion. In fact, several content creators who dedicate themselves to analyzing and playing the game also disagree with your take.
The pure Hexblade class has never been the real issue. The main criticism was always about taking a single-level dip into Hexblade — and I agree that was a bit too strong. But let’s be honest, multiclassing has always been where balance breaks down.
As a melee-focused Warlock, the Hexblade is more of a glass cannon. You lack proficiency in STR and CON saves, have only a d8 hit die, and you're heavily reliant on armor just to stay alive. Saying that melee Hexblades should focus only on DEX (just for armor) and CON misses the point — you need a balanced stat spread to survive, maintain concentration, and avoid getting wrecked in melee.
Choosing to fight in melee instead of relying on Eldritch Blast should be rewarded, not penalized. And it already requires significant investment through Warlock invocations. It’s a unique playstyle — one that demands full commitment — and it deserves proper support, not
all answers to questions are not equal just because they are all opinions.
who are these creators who disagree with me, and what evidence, or logical reason have they presented. Its definitely possible im wrong or missing something, but i'd like to see or hear their reasons
the point of me mentioning that i tested is not to say a test automatically makes me right, its to say, i tried this out, and the data does not line up with warlocks being either weak defensively or offensively, especially in early levels. And its not surprising because even without testing you can compare its statistics to other classes.
the main hexblade class wasnt seen as a problem compared to multiclasses, mostly because multiclasses took the best parts of hexblade. And also because the game was different. warlocks didnt get 3 attack action attacks per turn, there was no nick property, no origin feats, etc. SS was huge, The game balance was different.
The current UA hexblade with dual wielder can get about 84 dpr 17+. thats on par with the top 2 single target dpr martials (which is kinda wild since they are also full casters, with aoe, control etc)
your proposed version would get about 110 dpr.
the current UA hexblade is more than adequate at martial dpr. objectively, by the numbers.
your analysis of melee hexblade (in this Ua) as a glass cannon is only accurate if they choose to ignore their defense, mostly for no reason. They can pick up resilient con saves, and most do because that helps their concentration. str saves are not an important save. They can get 18 AC via mage armor and dex. the feature makes it 20 while in melee. They can get origin feat tough from invocations, they can get +12 hp temp hp from fiendish vigor. They can negate their level in damage once per round. And they have defensive spells like agathys, mirror image, synaptic static, none of which lower their offensive potential.
they are not glass at all.
and yes, i agree choosing to fight in melee should be rewarded, but the old hexblade curse doesnt help that, and having medium armor and shields doesnt help that. medium armor and shields+ old hexblade curse = easier and safer to attack from range with the best damage potential while wielding a shield.
a eldritch blasting shield user with your proposed changes, has 19 AC, 16-20 con, from 120 feet away, and does 73 damage per round. thats like 60-70% more than the fighters, plds, barbarians melee shield builds potential.
so, yeah, the current UA is closer to what you are saying hexblades identity should be than it would be with medium armor and shields and okd hexblades curse.
who are these creators who disagree with me, and what evidence, or logical reason have they presented. Its definitely possible im wrong or missing something, but i'd like to see or hear their reasons
Check my previous posts for the links. It's always valuable to consider other perspectives—you might be missing something important.
the point of me mentioning that i tested is not to say a test automatically makes me right, its to say, i tried this out, and the data does not line up with warlocks being either weak defensively or offensively, especially in early levels. And its not surprising because even without testing you can compare its statistics to other classes.
The current UA hexblade with dual wielder can get about 84 dpr 17+. thats on par with the top 2 single target dpr martials (which is kinda wild since they are also full casters, with aoe, control etc)
When you test something, it needs to be across a wide range of scenarios. You're just one person, so it's not really possible to claim your results cover everything. That's why it's important to consider what others are saying—many people feel it's not as balanced as you suggest. DPR is a very simple way to view things. If you don't have STR, you can easily be knocked down. You should consider real scenarios, DPR is only one factor of many. Thats why I say Glass Cannon.
and yes, i agree choosing to fight in melee should be rewarded, but the old hexblade curse doesnt help that, and having medium armor and shields doesnt help that. medium armor and shields+ old hexblade curse = easier and safer to attack from range with the best damage potential while wielding a shield.
When I played Hexblade, even with medium armor and shiled, I sometimes got wrecked easily—imagine going without it. Like I said, there are many different scenarios to consider. If shield and eldritch blast is a concern, make that you can you can use shield if you holding your pact weapon. Remember, you can get 1 level in Fighter, get Heavy Armor and Shield and still built towards Eldritch Blast. Its even better.
We're getting close, but the subclass still needs some key adjustments.
1) Spell List Adjustments
Remove Animate Objects – It suffers from being a "too many minions" spell and requires concentration, which clashes with your curse spells.
Add Conjure Volley – A perfect thematic replacement for Cone of Cold. It keeps the weapon-based feel while offering a classic "area burst" effect that fits the subclass flavor better.
2) Hexblade’s Curse Bring back the classic curse. It was always the defining feature of the Hexblade – iconic, flavorful, and mechanically satisfying. Its absence is deeply felt.
3) Armor and Shield Proficiency It’s unclear why there's so much reluctance here. The current +2 conditional shield feels off:
You kill your target... and suddenly become weaker? That’s backwards design. Just restore armor and shield proficiencies like in the original.
4) Level 6 – Malign Brutality
We've lost Accursed Specter – why? At least allow Summon Undead as a replacement. Make it last 10 minutes with concentration, just like similar features in other subclasses.
Inescapable Hex feels too situational and you get wrecked by opportunity attacks.
5) Level 14 – Masterful Hex (Capstone) This capstone needs a serious boost. Right now, it’s underwhelming for a 14th-level feature. Suggestions:
Gain advantage on all d20 checks and attack rolls against cursed or hexed targets.
Increase damage against cursed targets by +2d6.
the old hexblade was too frontloaded. and the curse's damage buff is too good with the 2024 changes to blade pact. Warlock already offers a hell of a lot for 3 level dip. 19 crit, +prof damage per hit, 4 spells, and medium armor and shields is kinda ridiculous.
i tested out the current version, and level 1-5 was easy, even though thats usually the deadly levels. They definitely dont need all of that at level 3. and, the + PB damage is kinda ridiculous scaling. bladepact warriors can attack 5 times per turn with dual wielding builds, so you would be talking about 30 damage per round, just from the level 3 feat, not too mention every multi attack class would have to dip 3 levels for this+19crit
within the class it would be OP. you are talking dual wielders, doing d6+2d8+5+6*5. and thats nit even optimized, thats just spirit shroud precast + curse.
as for the armor/shields the class/subclass has to choose between AC and Con, and thats good, because it opens two build paths, but also because the warlock hexblade with 15 ac (with magic armor) and decent con, is already a beast. (and 17 ac sometimes) giving them 19 ac at all times is totally unneccesary. Maybe if the subclasses identity was a super tank, but its not. Also, its just begging for a defensive turret build. 19+ AC regardless of dustance, best damage with a shield = d10+5+2d8x4.
If the goal is just to give people a (over)powerful subclass, sure, but if the goal is to have something somewhat balanced, with a melee focused playstyle and the fantasy of embodying weapons/martial play, i dont think some of those suggestions work towards that.
I strongly disagree with you. Just because you tested something doesn’t automatically make your opinion correct — it’s still just that: your opinion. In fact, several content creators who dedicate themselves to analyzing and playing the game also disagree with your take.
The pure Hexblade class has never been the real issue. The main criticism was always about taking a single-level dip into Hexblade — and I agree that was a bit too strong. But let’s be honest, multiclassing has always been where balance breaks down.
As a melee-focused Warlock, the Hexblade is more of a glass cannon. You lack proficiency in STR and CON saves, have only a d8 hit die, and you're heavily reliant on armor just to stay alive. Saying that melee Hexblades should focus only on DEX (just for armor) and CON misses the point — you need a balanced stat spread to survive, maintain concentration, and avoid getting wrecked in melee.
Choosing to fight in melee instead of relying on Eldritch Blast should be rewarded, not penalized. And it already requires significant investment through Warlock invocations. It’s a unique playstyle — one that demands full commitment — and it deserves proper support, not
all answers to questions are not equal just because they are all opinions.
who are these creators who disagree with me, and what evidence, or logical reason have they presented. Its definitely possible im wrong or missing something, but i'd like to see or hear their reasons
the point of me mentioning that i tested is not to say a test automatically makes me right, its to say, i tried this out, and the data does not line up with warlocks being either weak defensively or offensively, especially in early levels. And its not surprising because even without testing you can compare its statistics to other classes.
the main hexblade class wasnt seen as a problem compared to multiclasses, mostly because multiclasses took the best parts of hexblade. And also because the game was different. warlocks didnt get 3 attack action attacks per turn, there was no nick property, no origin feats, etc. SS was huge, The game balance was different.
The current UA hexblade with dual wielder can get about 84 dpr 17+. thats on par with the top 2 single target dpr martials (which is kinda wild since they are also full casters, with aoe, control etc)
your proposed version would get about 110 dpr.
the current UA hexblade is more than adequate at martial dpr. objectively, by the numbers.
your analysis of melee hexblade (in this Ua) as a glass cannon is only accurate if they choose to ignore their defense, mostly for no reason. They can pick up resilient con saves, and most do because that helps their concentration. str saves are not an important save. They can get 18 AC via mage armor and dex. the feature makes it 20 while in melee. They can get origin feat tough from invocations, they can get +12 hp temp hp from fiendish vigor. They can negate their level in damage once per round. And they have defensive spells like agathys, mirror image, synaptic static, none of which lower their offensive potential.
they are not glass at all.
and yes, i agree choosing to fight in melee should be rewarded, but the old hexblade curse doesnt help that, and having medium armor and shields doesnt help that. medium armor and shields+ old hexblade curse = easier and safer to attack from range with the best damage potential while wielding a shield.
a eldritch blasting shield user with your proposed changes, has 19 AC, 16-20 con, from 120 feet away, and does 73 damage per round. thats like 60-70% more than the fighters, plds, barbarians melee shield builds potential.
so, yeah, the current UA is closer to what you are saying hexblades identity should be than it would be with medium armor and shields and okd hexblades curse.
What it boils down to, is hexblade players don't want to have to invest in defenses like everyone else has to.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I understand where you're coming from, and I respect your perspective. But to be honest, sometimes it feels like the criticism towards Hexblade isn't entirely grounded in reason or balance concerns — it comes across more as frustration from other subclasses. Maybe Im wrong but maybe not :D
The frustration comes because 2014 hexblade never should have existed. It was a bad patch for blade pact that was not well thought out.
Now, players feel entitled to the bad patch. It's not necessary to make hexblade work, and frankly, never was. It might not be optimal, but you could build a solid bladelock before. You just couldn't get away with doing that AND pumping your charisma. The tears for lack of medium armor and shields is 100% because people want to pump their caster stat to the moon AND have free defenses that do not care that your dex remains low. They won't come out and SAY that's what it is, but at the heart of the matter, it's the truth.
Making hexblade have superior defenses to every other subclass is 100% the wrong answer. I'm not opposed to WARLOCKS having a choice to pick up medium armor; that could be an invocation. <insert whiny voice but I don't waaaaanna pay an invocation taaaaaax> I'm very much opposed to HEXBLADE getting it for FREE. Pay for it like everyone else who wants features that don't come with their class.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
who are these creators who disagree with me, and what evidence, or logical reason have they presented. Its definitely possible im wrong or missing something, but i'd like to see or hear their reasons
Check my previous posts for the links. It's always valuable to consider other perspectives—you might be missing something important.
the point of me mentioning that i tested is not to say a test automatically makes me right, its to say, i tried this out, and the data does not line up with warlocks being either weak defensively or offensively, especially in early levels. And its not surprising because even without testing you can compare its statistics to other classes.
The current UA hexblade with dual wielder can get about 84 dpr 17+. thats on par with the top 2 single target dpr martials (which is kinda wild since they are also full casters, with aoe, control etc)
When you test something, it needs to be across a wide range of scenarios. You're just one person, so it's not really possible to claim your results cover everything. That's why it's important to consider what others are saying—many people feel it's not as balanced as you suggest. DPR is a very simple way to view things. If you don't have STR, you can easily be knocked down. You should consider real scenarios, DPR is only one factor of many. Thats why I say Glass Cannon.
and yes, i agree choosing to fight in melee should be rewarded, but the old hexblade curse doesnt help that, and having medium armor and shields doesnt help that. medium armor and shields+ old hexblade curse = easier and safer to attack from range with the best damage potential while wielding a shield.
When I played Hexblade, even with medium armor and shiled, I sometimes got wrecked easily—imagine going without it. Like I said, there are many different scenarios to consider. If shield and eldritch blast is a concern, make that you can you can use shield if you holding your pact weapon. Remember, you can get 1 level in Fighter, get Heavy Armor and Shield and still built towards Eldritch Blast. Its even better.
it was a lot of testing, i did like 25+ encounters, with 4 different hexblade builds. from levels 1-18. i used randomly generated fights following the guidelines of the DMG, and they were all high difficulty or more.
i tested a dex main warlock main stat dex, secondary cha, 3rd con 17/16/14 at start
A general Cha focused build. cha 17 con 16 dex 14
a fighter dip gwm build, 17str 15 con 16 cha 8 every thing else
and a ranger dip eleven dual wielder. 16dex 17 cha 12 con 13 wis
the only one who wasnt tough as nails was the ranger dip, and thats because i didnt build them to be tough, but even that chr only died 2 times in 25+ encounters This was a wide range of scenarios. Str saves, with 2024 MM doesnt actually lead to getting knocked down much more than anyone else, because almost all the monsters who are meant tO knock you down do it with no saves on hit. This doesnt mean there is never a strength save, but they are not more common or more deadly than having a different save proficiency.
the most durable one was probably the dex main warlock, (because i took defensive duelist) but both the /fighter and the pure cha one were also durable and had certain things they exceled at defensively.
a multiclass focusing on eldritch blast with a shield is a multiclass. Its not a problem in the design of hexblade, if someone chooses to go outside of hexblade to create something that hexblade wouldnt normally be encouraging. And i think it makes more sense that someone taking a level in a heavy armor/sword and board class, might gain those benefits. making you need to hold a weapon would have little effect on preventing eldritch blast, shield builds, because most warlocks and other casters take warcaster already for concentration.
while yes, you may have got wrecked as hexblade or warlock, that doesnt necessarily mean anything, its possible any class would have gotten wrecked, the things that would have possibly killed 3/4ths of my warlocks would probably have killed any other charachter who was not hyper defense focused.
Its also possible you did not build a warlock who was meant to deal with damage
1/4 of my warlocks at 18 had 115 hp. while the others had 165-201. that wasnt because warlocks are made of paper, its because i built her that way. she could have cast shadow of moil, causing enemies to have disadvantage to attack her, instead she chose spirit shroud for offense. I built her with 12 con, i didnt take tough feat from invocations, i didnt give her fiendish vigor for more max HP, i didnt select defensive feats.
The frustration comes because 2014 hexblade never should have existed. It was a bad patch for blade pact that was not well thought out.
Now, players feel entitled to the bad patch. It's not necessary to make hexblade work, and frankly, never was. It might not be optimal, but you could build a solid bladelock before. You just couldn't get away with doing that AND pumping your charisma. The tears for lack of medium armor and shields is 100% because people want to pump their caster stat to the moon AND have free defenses that do not care that your dex remains low. They won't come out and SAY that's what it is, but at the heart of the matter, it's the truth.
Making hexblade have superior defenses to every other subclass is 100% the wrong answer. I'm not opposed to WARLOCKS having a choice to pick up medium armor; that could be an invocation. <insert whiny voice but I don't waaaaanna pay an invocation taaaaaax> I'm very much opposed to HEXBLADE getting it for FREE. Pay for it like everyone else who wants features that don't come with their class.
Did you know that Hexblade is one of the most popular subclasses? And yet you just said it should’ve never existed — that alone says a lot about your analysis. What we’re trying to do is keep it fun and appealing, because D&D should be cool, engaging, and popular. That’s really all it comes down to.
Medium Armor and Shield is far from being OP. Also Hexblade is losing Accursed Specter that could soaked some damage and very feel are complaining about that. We know changes must be made, but we should analyses with care and not passion.
while yes, you may have got wrecked as hexblade or warlock, that doesnt necessarily mean anything, its possible any class would have gotten wrecked, the things that would have possibly killed 3/4ths of my warlocks would probably have killed any other charachter who was not hyper defense focused.
Its also possible you did not build a warlock who was meant to deal with damage
So you’re actually agreeing with me — by saying my testing didn’t cover everything, you’re also implying yours didn’t either. Like I said, testing one or even 25 scenarios isn’t enough to draw absolute conclusions. Some people agree with you, others agree with me — and that’s perfectly normal.
Now, about the classic Hexblade: the armor and shield aren’t there by accident — they serve a purpose. Removing them doesn’t sit well with a lot of players. And let’s not forget it already lost one of its most iconic features: Accursed Specter. That’s not just my take — it came from DnD Shorts, and I’d bet he understands D&D better than 90% of people in this conversation.
The fact that it’s the most popular does not definitively disprove the idea it was broken, and arguably supports the point it was too good if it had a major lead. Bladelocks needed a tune up so their spells and weapons were both effective. Defensively, d8 Hit Die, Light/Mage Armor, and the personal bag of tricks each subclass has are enough to keep you standing unless you forget you’re a damage build, not a tank.
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I'd just want Cone of Cold. More resisted, but MUCH cooler. :)
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
I also like Cone of Cone ! I just giving ideas to the D&D Teams. Animated Objects has nothing to do with Hexblade. I
Soo, i completed some extensive testing of this hexblade, 4 builds, levels 1-18.
conclusions is offense, defense, utility wise the hexblade has NO issues, they breeze through 1-10 on easy mode, they can handle 11-15 as well or better than most, and in t4, well foresight is pretty great. level 8 and 9 spells, tons of pact slots.
The main issue with the subclass isnt exactly power, but rather feeling good. The hexblade curse feature is unclear in its meaning, but regardless it has issues.
1. 3-5 monster kills per day seems pretty small, this is mitigated at 14, but 14 is pretty high level. If the hexcurse can be transfered with the hex spell, it puts a lot of spell pressure on using/ keeping the hex spell going as long as possible. While not unworkable, it might be seen as too dominant.
2. spell pressure is high from like 3-10, only having two base spells without a 3-5 free spell feature (like fey wanderer or okd hexblade) with a melee focused class, hex linked class having strong incentives to just use 1 hex like spell and 1 defensive spell if you get into a rough situation, makes it very repetitive, and it feel like you have to the same thing all the time with no real choices. This eases up with level 11 which prings 3 pact slots and 2 from magical cunning, but again thats a long time.
3. Aaplying hexcurse early on while not using a curse is pretty annoying, especially since hex becomes less optimal as you get higher, and hex gets replace by things like spirit shroud. Especially since the design of hexcurse is to be very useful, very quickly on the most dangerous enemies. Turn 1 hexcurse, but low damage/defense, or turn 1 defense/damage good but no hexcurse, when the group needs this monster killed or distracted seems pretty cross purpose.
the rest is pretty solid. defense while close to a target is more interesting gameplay than always on defense, hindering curse is great for setting up powerful debuffs for the team. being able to strike with a weapon after casting is great, no turn feels sub par. Unyielding will is fun and very useful. The level 14 features are pretty on point, though the explosion feature seems undertuned for a level 5 slot. but frankly, the power level of the class is fine, so its nota huge deal. They have a lot of great spells to cast, so if they only use it once per day thats fine.
my testing assumed the 3-5 uses, and that was probably the biggest issue. making it essentially one monster per encounter, and running out for some builds in the 4rth battle. id say they should at the least have 5-7 uses, if thats the route they want to go
But, but Gwar...it doesn't have medium armor and shields. It CAN'T be fine! it just can't. /s
100% agree though. It works, but is not well designed.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
We're getting close, but the subclass still needs some key adjustments.
1) Spell List Adjustments
Remove Animate Objects – It suffers from being a "too many minions" spell and requires concentration, which clashes with your curse spells.
Add Conjure Volley – A perfect thematic replacement for Cone of Cold. It keeps the weapon-based feel while offering a classic "area burst" effect that fits the subclass flavor better.
2) Hexblade’s Curse
Bring back the classic curse. It was always the defining feature of the Hexblade – iconic, flavorful, and mechanically satisfying. Its absence is deeply felt.
3) Armor and Shield Proficiency
It’s unclear why there's so much reluctance here. The current +2 conditional shield feels off:
4) Level 6 – Malign Brutality
We've lost Accursed Specter – why? At least allow Summon Undead as a replacement. Make it last 10 minutes with concentration, just like similar features in other subclasses.
Inescapable Hex feels too situational and you get wrecked by opportunity attacks.
5) Level 14 – Masterful Hex (Capstone)
This capstone needs a serious boost. Right now, it’s underwhelming for a 14th-level feature. Suggestions:
Gain advantage on all d20 checks and attack rolls against cursed or hexed targets.
Increase damage against cursed targets by +2d6.
The reason Animate Objects is there is because people wanted more BLADE in their HexBLADE.
It's already intruding on Ranger Spells with Conjure Barrage, so Conjure Volley might be too much of that.
I say bring back Cone of Cold. At least that's useful & prevents easy reviving by turning corpses into frozen statues.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
warlock, if you try is pretty tough, tough+ fiendish vigor, and con 2ndary focus gives you a lot of HP, and they have strong defensive or control spells, hexblade just adds to that. Personally i think its pretty well designed other than some tweaks to hexblade's curse, but people will differ
Conjure barrage is exactly that feel to summon multiply weapons like in fantasy animation. but I think Cone of Cone is OK since Its classic. I very dislike Animated Object , too many actions and its far from the feel of having an accursed specter.
the old hexblade was too frontloaded. and the curse's damage buff is too good with the 2024 changes to blade pact. Warlock already offers a hell of a lot for 3 level dip. 19 crit, +prof damage per hit, 4 spells, and medium armor and shields is kinda ridiculous.
i tested out the current version, and level 1-5 was easy, even though thats usually the deadly levels. They definitely dont need all of that at level 3. and, the + PB damage is kinda ridiculous scaling. bladepact warriors can attack 5 times per turn with dual wielding builds, so you would be talking about 30 damage per round, just from the level 3 feat, not too mention every multi attack class would have to dip 3 levels for this+19crit
within the class it would be OP. you are talking dual wielders, doing d6+2d8+5+6*5. and thats nit even optimized, thats just spirit shroud precast + curse.
as for the armor/shields the class/subclass has to choose between AC and Con, and thats good, because it opens two build paths, but also because the warlock hexblade with 15 ac (with magic armor) and decent con, is already a beast. (and 17 ac sometimes) giving them 19 ac at all times is totally unneccesary. Maybe if the subclasses identity was a super tank, but its not. Also, its just begging for a defensive turret build. 19+ AC regardless of dustance, best damage with a shield = d10+5+2d8x4.
If the goal is just to give people a (over)powerful subclass, sure, but if the goal is to have something somewhat balanced, with a melee focused playstyle and the fantasy of embodying weapons/martial play, i dont think some of those suggestions work towards that.
I strongly disagree with you. Just because you tested something doesn’t automatically make your opinion correct — it’s still just that: your opinion. In fact, several content creators who dedicate themselves to analyzing and playing the game also disagree with your take.
The pure Hexblade class has never been the real issue. The main criticism was always about taking a single-level dip into Hexblade — and I agree that was a bit too strong. But let’s be honest, multiclassing has always been where balance breaks down.
As a melee-focused Warlock, the Hexblade is more of a glass cannon. You lack proficiency in STR and CON saves, have only a d8 hit die, and you're heavily reliant on armor just to stay alive. Saying that melee Hexblades should focus only on DEX (just for armor) and CON misses the point — you need a balanced stat spread to survive, maintain concentration, and avoid getting wrecked in melee.
Choosing to fight in melee instead of relying on Eldritch Blast should be rewarded, not penalized. And it already requires significant investment through Warlock invocations. It’s a unique playstyle — one that demands full commitment — and it deserves proper support, not dismissal.
all answers to questions are not equal just because they are all opinions.
who are these creators who disagree with me, and what evidence, or logical reason have they presented. Its definitely possible im wrong or missing something, but i'd like to see or hear their reasons
the point of me mentioning that i tested is not to say a test automatically makes me right, its to say, i tried this out, and the data does not line up with warlocks being either weak defensively or offensively, especially in early levels. And its not surprising because even without testing you can compare its statistics to other classes.
the main hexblade class wasnt seen as a problem compared to multiclasses, mostly because multiclasses took the best parts of hexblade. And also because the game was different. warlocks didnt get 3 attack action attacks per turn, there was no nick property, no origin feats, etc. SS was huge, The game balance was different.
The current UA hexblade with dual wielder can get about 84 dpr 17+. thats on par with the top 2 single target dpr martials (which is kinda wild since they are also full casters, with aoe, control etc)
your proposed version would get about 110 dpr.
the current UA hexblade is more than adequate at martial dpr. objectively, by the numbers.
your analysis of melee hexblade (in this Ua) as a glass cannon is only accurate if they choose to ignore their defense, mostly for no reason. They can pick up resilient con saves, and most do because that helps their concentration. str saves are not an important save. They can get 18 AC via mage armor and dex. the feature makes it 20 while in melee. They can get origin feat tough from invocations, they can get +12 hp temp hp from fiendish vigor. They can negate their level in damage once per round. And they have defensive spells like agathys, mirror image, synaptic static, none of which lower their offensive potential.
they are not glass at all.
and yes, i agree choosing to fight in melee should be rewarded, but the old hexblade curse doesnt help that, and having medium armor and shields doesnt help that. medium armor and shields+ old hexblade curse = easier and safer to attack from range with the best damage potential while wielding a shield.
a eldritch blasting shield user with your proposed changes, has 19 AC, 16-20 con, from 120 feet away, and does 73 damage per round. thats like 60-70% more than the fighters, plds, barbarians melee shield builds potential.
so, yeah, the current UA is closer to what you are saying hexblades identity should be than it would be with medium armor and shields and okd hexblades curse.
Check my previous posts for the links. It's always valuable to consider other perspectives—you might be missing something important.
When you test something, it needs to be across a wide range of scenarios. You're just one person, so it's not really possible to claim your results cover everything. That's why it's important to consider what others are saying—many people feel it's not as balanced as you suggest. DPR is a very simple way to view things. If you don't have STR, you can easily be knocked down. You should consider real scenarios, DPR is only one factor of many. Thats why I say Glass Cannon.
When I played Hexblade, even with medium armor and shiled, I sometimes got wrecked easily—imagine going without it. Like I said, there are many different scenarios to consider. If shield and eldritch blast is a concern, make that you can you can use shield if you holding your pact weapon. Remember, you can get 1 level in Fighter, get Heavy Armor and Shield and still built towards Eldritch Blast. Its even better.
What it boils down to, is hexblade players don't want to have to invest in defenses like everyone else has to.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Right?! I am really hoping that WotC sticks to their guns with the no Medium Armor and Shields.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I understand where you're coming from, and I respect your perspective. But to be honest, sometimes it feels like the criticism towards Hexblade isn't entirely grounded in reason or balance concerns — it comes across more as frustration from other subclasses. Maybe Im wrong but maybe not :D
The frustration comes because 2014 hexblade never should have existed. It was a bad patch for blade pact that was not well thought out.
Now, players feel entitled to the bad patch. It's not necessary to make hexblade work, and frankly, never was. It might not be optimal, but you could build a solid bladelock before. You just couldn't get away with doing that AND pumping your charisma. The tears for lack of medium armor and shields is 100% because people want to pump their caster stat to the moon AND have free defenses that do not care that your dex remains low. They won't come out and SAY that's what it is, but at the heart of the matter, it's the truth.
Making hexblade have superior defenses to every other subclass is 100% the wrong answer. I'm not opposed to WARLOCKS having a choice to pick up medium armor; that could be an invocation. <insert whiny voice but I don't waaaaanna pay an invocation taaaaaax> I'm very much opposed to HEXBLADE getting it for FREE. Pay for it like everyone else who wants features that don't come with their class.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
it was a lot of testing, i did like 25+ encounters, with 4 different hexblade builds. from levels 1-18. i used randomly generated fights following the guidelines of the DMG, and they were all high difficulty or more.
i tested a dex main warlock main stat dex, secondary cha, 3rd con 17/16/14 at start
A general Cha focused build. cha 17 con 16 dex 14
a fighter dip gwm build, 17str 15 con 16 cha 8 every thing else
and a ranger dip eleven dual wielder. 16dex 17 cha 12 con 13 wis
the only one who wasnt tough as nails was the ranger dip, and thats because i didnt build them to be tough, but even that chr only died 2 times in 25+ encounters This was a wide range of scenarios. Str saves, with 2024 MM doesnt actually lead to getting knocked down much more than anyone else, because almost all the monsters who are meant tO knock you down do it with no saves on hit. This doesnt mean there is never a strength save, but they are not more common or more deadly than having a different save proficiency.
the most durable one was probably the dex main warlock, (because i took defensive duelist) but both the /fighter and the pure cha one were also durable and had certain things they exceled at defensively.
a multiclass focusing on eldritch blast with a shield is a multiclass. Its not a problem in the design of hexblade, if someone chooses to go outside of hexblade to create something that hexblade wouldnt normally be encouraging. And i think it makes more sense that someone taking a level in a heavy armor/sword and board class, might gain those benefits. making you need to hold a weapon would have little effect on preventing eldritch blast, shield builds, because most warlocks and other casters take warcaster already for concentration.
while yes, you may have got wrecked as hexblade or warlock, that doesnt necessarily mean anything, its possible any class would have gotten wrecked, the things that would have possibly killed 3/4ths of my warlocks would probably have killed any other charachter who was not hyper defense focused.
Its also possible you did not build a warlock who was meant to deal with damage
1/4 of my warlocks at 18 had 115 hp. while the others had 165-201. that wasnt because warlocks are made of paper, its because i built her that way. she could have cast shadow of moil, causing enemies to have disadvantage to attack her, instead she chose spirit shroud for offense. I built her with 12 con, i didnt take tough feat from invocations, i didnt give her fiendish vigor for more max HP, i didnt select defensive feats.
Did you know that Hexblade is one of the most popular subclasses? And yet you just said it should’ve never existed — that alone says a lot about your analysis. What we’re trying to do is keep it fun and appealing, because D&D should be cool, engaging, and popular. That’s really all it comes down to.
Medium Armor and Shield is far from being OP. Also Hexblade is losing Accursed Specter that could soaked some damage and very feel are complaining about that. We know changes must be made, but we should analyses with care and not passion.
So you’re actually agreeing with me — by saying my testing didn’t cover everything, you’re also implying yours didn’t either. Like I said, testing one or even 25 scenarios isn’t enough to draw absolute conclusions. Some people agree with you, others agree with me — and that’s perfectly normal.
Now, about the classic Hexblade: the armor and shield aren’t there by accident — they serve a purpose. Removing them doesn’t sit well with a lot of players. And let’s not forget it already lost one of its most iconic features: Accursed Specter. That’s not just my take — it came from DnD Shorts, and I’d bet he understands D&D better than 90% of people in this conversation.
Then Hexblade will be just fine without it or they can get it the same way all other Pact of the Blade Warlocks get it.
Edit: BTW, DnD Shorts is a meme
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
The fact that it’s the most popular does not definitively disprove the idea it was broken, and arguably supports the point it was too good if it had a major lead. Bladelocks needed a tune up so their spells and weapons were both effective. Defensively, d8 Hit Die, Light/Mage Armor, and the personal bag of tricks each subclass has are enough to keep you standing unless you forget you’re a damage build, not a tank.