It can. For example, for a long time I have wanted to do a joke character that DW hammer and sickle. Sadly, the damage dice is a bit low on the light hammer and the sickle, however monk fixes that problem.
I assume DW is Drunken Master and not a homebrew/third party.
How does the monk provide access to armor? Martial Arts doesn't work wearing armor and without that, the monk no longer has inherent damage scaling; dealing 1 + strength damage instead of 1d6 to 1d12 + strength or dexterity on an unarmed strike is not impressive. A monk class does not doesn't help build an armored, hammer-wielding warrior. Level 1 is a complete waste. Level 2 gives Monk's Focus and Uncanny Movement; Unarmored Movement does nothing for a monk in armor. There are aspects of his journeys which could be represented using different abilities and classes, but for the core concept of Thor, the warrior thunder god, monk doesn't work.
Ever since 1e, he is represented as being able to wear chain, at a minimum, which almost completely shuts down a monk. In Norse myth, things get less clear, but even then his Warhammer is far from a light hammer and he needs to magic items to safely wield. I can't recall if it is classic myth or Marvel where Mjolnir was a Warhammer or War Mattock (in D&D terms, a Maul) with a handle shortened to prevent two-handed use due to Loki's trickery.
You are providing an example of changing the flavor to fit the class and saying that it proves that you can use the class to fit the flavor.
Accepting armor training is out of the question in 2024, while playing with concepts that feel more like 2014.
3rd level Hexblade Spells
Same as UA
3rd Level Hex Warrior
At 3rd level, you acquire the training necessary to effectively arm yourself for battle and power over curses that make you more effective in close quarters. You gain proficiency with martial weapons.
Hex Weapon. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one weapon that you are proficient with. If the weapon is heavy you ignore disadvantage caused by not having the required Strength or Dexterity score. When you attack with that weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls. As a bonus action you may send the weapon to a pocket dimension or summon it from that pocket dimension. While in the pocket dimension the weapons is considered to be within 1ft of you. A weapon returns from the pocket dimension if you die. These benefits last until you finish a long rest. If you have/gain the Pact of the Blade invocation these benefits extend to every pact weapon you bond with or conjure with that invocation.
Hungering Hex. When a cursed enemy within 10ft of you drops to 0 hit points you regain 1d8+ your Charisma Modifier hit points.
Accused Shield. When you are within 10ft of a cursed enemy you gain +2 to your AC as long as you aren't wearing medium armor, heavy armor, or using a shield.
3rd Level Unyielding Will
Same as UA
6th Level Malign Brutality
Accursed Critical. Any melee attack roll you make against a cursed target scores a Critical Hit on a 19 or 20 on the d20.
Harrowing Hex. Same as UA
Hindering Curse. When you hit a target cursed by you with an attack roll, the target has disadvantage on its next saving throw before the start of your next turn.
10th Level Armor of Hexes
If an enemy that is cursed by you deals damage to you, you can use your reaction to roll a d6. On a 6 you take no damage. If you don’t roll a 6 you instead reduce the damage by your Warlock level + the number rolled on the d6.
14 Level Master of Hexes
Hexblade’s Curse. You can curse one creature within 30 feet of you that fails a saving throw against a level 1+ warlock spell that requires concentration that you cast with Hexblade’s curse. The Hexblade’s curse ends when the spell ends. It ends immediately if you place another creature under a Hexblade’s curse. You deal an additional 1d8 necrotic or psychic damage (your choice) to a creature suffering from Hexblade’s curse when you hit them with an attack roll. When a creature suffering Hexblade’s curse ends its turn more than 30ft from you they take 1d4 psychic damage.
Inescapable Hex. If a cursed creature starts its turn within 10 ft of you and ends its turn 30ft or further from you, but within 100ft of you, you can teleport to an unoccupied space within 10ft of the creature.
At 3rd level, you acquire the training necessary to effectively arm yourself for battle and power over curses that make you more effective in close quarters. You gain proficiency with martial weapons.
Hex Weapon. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one weapon that you are proficient with. If the weapon is heavy you ignore disadvantage caused by not having the required Strength or Dexterity score. When you attack with that weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls. As a bonus action you may send the weapon to a pocket dimension or summon it from that pocket dimension. While in the pocket dimension the weapons is considered to be within 1ft of you. A weapon returns from the pocket dimension if you die. These benefits last until you finish a long rest. If you have/gain the Pact of the Blade invocation these benefits extend to every pact weapon you bond with or conjure with that invocation.
Hungering Hex. When a cursed enemy within 10ft of you drops to 0 hit points you regain 1d8+ your Charisma Modifier hit points.
Accused Shield. When you are within 10ft of a cursed enemy you gain +2 to your AC as long as you aren't wearing medium armor, heavy armor, or using a shield.
3rd Level Unyielding Will
Same as UA
So, at 3rd level, you're trading ignoring Dexterity and Strength penalties on Heavy Weapons instead of the Hexblade Curse ability Charisma times per day. Instead, Hungering Hex, Accursed Shield, Hindering Curse (6th), Inescapable Hex (6th), Armor of Hexes, Accursed Critical, and Explosive Hex all key off of any curse. Seems too strong to me.
Accursed Critical. Any melee attack roll against a cursed target scores a Critical Hit on a 19 or 20 on the d20.
Harrowing Hex. Same as UA
Hindering Curse. When you hit a target cursed by you with an attack roll, the target has disadvantage on its next saving throw before the start of your next turn.
I assume Accursed Critical only applies to attacks by you against the cursed target?
If an enemy that is cursed by you deals damage to you, you can use your reaction to roll a d6. On a 6 you take no damage. If you don’t roll a 6 you instead reduce the damage by your Warlock level + the number rolled on the d6.
One in 6 chance to negate the damage from an attack completely? Too strong. Armor of Hexes is fine. Because of the scaling, it could appear lower in the subclass features, but it is okay at 10.
Hexblade’s Curse. You can curse one creature that fails a saving throw against a warlock spell you cast with Hexblade’s curse. The Hexblade’s curse lasts until the start of your next turn or the spell's duration, whichever is longer. It ends immediately if you place another creature under a Hexblade’s curse. You deal an additional 1d8 necrotic or psychic damage (your choice) to a creature suffering from Hexblade’s curse when you hit them with an attack roll. When a creature suffering Hexblade’s curse ends its turn more than 10ft from you they take 1d4 psychic damage.
Inescapable Hex. If a cursed creature starts its turn within 10 ft of you and ends its turn 30ft or further from you, but still on the same plane you can teleport to an unoccupied space within 10ft of of the creature.
Inescapable Hex is too good. Combined with a long duration spell, Hexblade's Curse can become an automatic kill, particularly when triggered without the target being aware. Booming Blade deals the damage once per hit. Even without a particularly long duration, this triggers off of Cantrips, like Create Bonfire, and low-level spells, like Cause Fear. This is once it fails the original save, it's ongoing damage with no save to shrug off unless the original spell allows one (like Friends). Technically, with Suggestion, it's a death sentence since the damage is a rider effect and so suggestion doesn't obviously cause damage. This true for Dream as well if you make the messenger terrifying to the target. Both of these can lead to a potential 4,800d4 damage. Not to mention that you can set up chain with Hindering Curse followed by Hexblade's Curse. As a Warlock player, nope.
Hex weapon restores some of the 2014 Hexblade fuctionality.
Hex and Bestow Curse are the only ways for a player to curse an enemy in the core rules. I believe there is another spell in the expanded rules. This only opens up use for team play if someone else in your party can cast those spells. So allowing some things to trigger on any cursed enemy isn’t as strong as you are imagining.
Yeah Accursed Critical is the Hexblade’s attacks.
If you think my Armor of Hexes is too strong you didn’t play a Hexblade to high levels with the 2014 rules. They have a 50% chance to avoid all attack roll hits from their cursed target. A 17% chance to negate all damage with some reduction if you fail to negate isn’t that strong compared to 50% against all attack rolls.
Inescapable Hex is definitely not too strong. I wrote that kind of as a joke. If an enemy your party was fighting teleports out of sight of the entire party are you brave enough to follow? You don’t know how far, only that if it works you are on the same plane of existence.
Hexblade’s Curse has multiple oversights. That should have been level 1+ warlock spell. I didn’t think of Dream. Also I can’t just assume an enemy would have access to Dispel Magic, Remove Curse, Greater Restoration, or some way to remove the curse. I originally wrote it to only work on concentration spells which might be the more balanced option. Also it should only be applied if the target is within 30ft of you when you cast the spell. I’ll edit my post.
It can. For example, for a long time I have wanted to do a joke character that DW hammer and sickle. Sadly, the damage dice is a bit low on the light hammer and the sickle, however monk fixes that problem.
I assume DW is Drunken Master and not a homebrew/third party.
How does the monk provide access to armor? Martial Arts doesn't work wearing armor and without that, the monk no longer has inherent damage scaling; dealing 1 + strength damage instead of 1d6 to 1d12 + strength or dexterity on an unarmed strike is not impressive. A monk class does not doesn't help build an armored, hammer-wielding warrior. Level 1 is a complete waste. Level 2 gives Monk's Focus and Uncanny Movement; Unarmored Movement does nothing for a monk in armor. There are aspects of his journeys which could be represented using different abilities and classes, but for the core concept of Thor, the warrior thunder god, monk doesn't work.
Ever since 1e, he is represented as being able to wear chain, at a minimum, which almost completely shuts down a monk. In Norse myth, things get less clear, but even then his Warhammer is far from a light hammer and he needs to magic items to safely wield. I can't recall if it is classic myth or Marvel where Mjolnir was a Warhammer or War Mattock (in D&D terms, a Maul) with a handle shortened to prevent two-handed use due to Loki's trickery.
You are providing an example of changing the flavor to fit the class and saying that it proves that you can use the class to fit the flavor.
I think you're missing the point of my original post. I can't tell whether you're doing it intentionally to be argumentative, or not.
In this case, I would not make a monk to do an armored warrior Thor. The point of the original post, is that you can choose whatever class necessary to make a concept work, and ignore the fluff that WOTC provides. Monk's a chassis. It's got a set of mechanics. If those mechanics fit, the character is a monk whether he ever set foot in a monastery or not. I feel like the point of YOUR post was to deflect from the point I was making, hone in on a very specific case that was not relevant to my original point and use that as proof that I was wrong. Since I don't feel you're discussing things with any shred of intellectual honesty, I will just leave you to your opinion, and hope you have a wonderful day.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
If you think my Armor of Hexes is too strong you didn’t play a Hexblade to high levels with the 2014 rules. They have a 50% chance to avoid all attack roll hits from their cursed target. A 17% chance to negate all damage with some reduction if you fail to negate isn’t that strong compared to 50% against all attack rolls.
I am not advocating reclaiming the 2014 effectiveness of Armor of Hexes.
Inescapable Hex is definitely not too strong. I wrote that kind of as a joke. If an enemy your party was fighting teleports out of sight of the entire party are you brave enough to follow? You don’t know how far, only that if it works you are on the same plane of existence.
Teleporting to a foe out of sight is foolish. Teleporting adjacent to a fast moving target can result in wild movement distances that aren't matched by equivalent options for other classes.
Hex weapon restores some of the 2014 Hexblade fuctionality.
The Hexblade was restricted from selecting weapons with the two-handed properties. Ignoring ability modifiers isn't really in line with "restoring some of the functionality". The pocket dimension storage is also new. Actually, nothing Hex Weapon does restores any functionality; it's all new.
Hex and Bestow Curse are the only ways for a player to curse an enemy in the core rules. I believe there is another spell in the expanded rules. This only opens up use for team play if someone else in your party can cast those spells. So allowing some things to trigger on any cursed enemy isn’t as strong as you are imagining.
Wait. Your version keys off any curse not just those cast by the Hexblade (which in 2014 they could do about once per encounter). That's a massive buff. I'd have to check if there are any multitarget curses that make the Hexblade more effective in multitarget encounters as well as single target ones.
It can. For example, for a long time I have wanted to do a joke character that DW hammer and sickle. Sadly, the damage dice is a bit low on the light hammer and the sickle, however monk fixes that problem.
I assume DW is Drunken Master and not a homebrew/third party.
How does the monk provide access to armor? Martial Arts doesn't work wearing armor and without that, the monk no longer has inherent damage scaling; dealing 1 + strength damage instead of 1d6 to 1d12 + strength or dexterity on an unarmed strike is not impressive. A monk class does not doesn't help build an armored, hammer-wielding warrior. Level 1 is a complete waste. Level 2 gives Monk's Focus and Uncanny Movement; Unarmored Movement does nothing for a monk in armor. There are aspects of his journeys which could be represented using different abilities and classes, but for the core concept of Thor, the warrior thunder god, monk doesn't work.
Ever since 1e, he is represented as being able to wear chain, at a minimum, which almost completely shuts down a monk. In Norse myth, things get less clear, but even then his Warhammer is far from a light hammer and he needs to magic items to safely wield. I can't recall if it is classic myth or Marvel where Mjolnir was a Warhammer or War Mattock (in D&D terms, a Maul) with a handle shortened to prevent two-handed use due to Loki's trickery.
You are providing an example of changing the flavor to fit the class and saying that it proves that you can use the class to fit the flavor.
I think you're missing the point of my original post. I can't tell whether you're doing it intentionally to be argumentative, or not.
In this case, I would not make a monk to do an armored warrior Thor. The point of the original post, is that you can choose whatever class necessary to make a concept work, and ignore the fluff that WOTC provides. Monk's a chassis. It's got a set of mechanics. If those mechanics fit, the character is a monk whether he ever set foot in a monastery or not.
I think you're missing the point of my original post that you responded to.
The Hexblade is a set of flavor, an armored warrior using curses and melee weapons in battle. The UA version strips away the medium armor proficiency and adds a feature to encourage unarmored play.
This is equivalent to taking an armored warrior, known for wielding a heavy weapon and saying this is now a monk. No armor, maybe light weapons. Some treatments of Thor refer to him as unarmored and looking like a peasant so a way of the Elements monk may fit that (and scaling up the throwable light hammer does a decent Mjolnir impression), but for a traditional representation of an armored warrior, monk is off base. I have repeatedly said that monk is not mechanically good at representing an armored Thor and you are now telling me to ignore the monastery associations of monk. Who cares about monasteries? When did I say monastery traditions was the blocker here?
I have been an advocate of classes are mechanic/stat sticks that you flavor however you want since 3.0.
My point is my version of Armor of Hexes is not to strong compared to what was already in the game?
For my version of Inescapable Hex to work the Warlock would have to be within 10 feet of a cursed target at the start of the targets turn. It’s not near as strong as you think. You have to check 2 boxes before it’s usable, and any creature that can move on other’s turns can definitely escape.
I question whether you played a Hexblade in 2014. I think you said you were a Warlock player, but you didn’t specifically say Hexblade, so I might have made an assumption. In 2014 Pact of the Blade allowed you to use any weapon and when paired with Hex Warrior you could have a heavy weapon as your pact/hex weapon. In 2024 the new restriction on heavy weapons makes it difficult for people to make some of the same builds they once had. So yes allowing them to ignore the new heavy weapon restrictions is bringing back old Hexblade functionality. Also by having hex warrior and pact of the blade separate it allows for two weapons for those that prefer that. More importantly it allows a player to not take pact of the blade if that is what they want. They would still get a Hexblade experience without using an invocation. Obviously the experience is improved by PotB, but the option should be there just like in 2014.
Curses that players can use are very rare to be honest. Bestow Curse and Hex are it in the core rules that are player facing. The DM usually handles all other curses. Raven loft has a section about creating curses, but that’s DM facing. By no means was the Hexblade balanced and ready for the game. I just like to put out ideas, but i base them off of concepts that already exist so they aren’t tipping the power scale.
Armor of Hexes isn’t an ideal design even It was +2 AC. It functions as a stackable AC mechanic, which introduces unnecessary complications and balance issues. Medium Armor was already the cleaner, more elegant solution — which is exactly why it was part of the 2014 version.
Armor of Hexes isn’t an ideal design even It was +2 AC. It functions as a stackable AC mechanic, which introduces unnecessary complications and balance issues. Medium Armor was already the cleaner, more elegant solution — which is exactly why it was part of the 2014 version.
The 2014 edition was improved armor via medium armor and shields PLUS armor of hexes giving you a (conditional) 50% miss chance. With increased access to disadvantage in 2024 (an ally with sap, for example), something has to go and medium armor doesn't have to be the casualty, but the 2014 version was too good to continue in 2024. Honestly, I'd like to see them get damage reduction equal to their proficiency bonus versus the cursed target on every hit (flat, constant value with no additional rolls) or Warlock level with restricted uses (scales better and encourages single class characters but too strong to be every hit)..
Proficiency bonus damage reduction seems weak but I am curious how it would combo with medium armor, false life/armor of Agathys.
What if the hexblade could use a attunement slot to give a wepon there holding or a pack wepon extra abilities equal to their cha mod? They could have a list of things they could add to there attuned wepon. Like a plus to there attack and damage roll , an additional die of elemental damage, maybe an improved crit range. Things like that
The 2014 Hexblade is a beloved and iconic subclass — its popularity is undeniable. That’s why any changes should be approached with passion and care, always respecting its core identity.
Just look at the BG3 statistics below as evidence of its lasting appeal.
Let’s focus on making the Hexblade a refined evolution — one that stays true to its original concept and mechanics.
Honestly the new Hexblade is just a mess IMO. Their are trying so hard to not make this the optimal PotB subclass when they SHOULD be leaning into that. Not to say it should be directly ties to PotB in terms of functionality, but the Hexblade should be the gish subclass for warlocks. They did it with spellsingers and honestly it looks fantastic. I dont know why they cant do that for warlocks.
in terms of AC, I have no issue with them taking away medium armor and shields, but the replacement should not be Accuraed shield. That feature is so bad its honestly mind blowing someone at WoTc looked at it and said “yeah, this looks good”. Give Hexblades the bladesinger treatment where they can add their CHA to AC. Somthing like “while not wearing medium or heavy armor, and not carrying a shield, you get a bonus to your AC eqaul to your CHA modifier while concentrating on a spell”. It would combine nicely with unyielding will and would allow warlocks to frontline without dipping.
Also certain features need to scale, the dmg from unyielding will needs to scale with warlock level or just remove it, the dmg from exploding hex needs to scale with warlock level or change the capstone entirely and accursed ciritcal needs to go back to base hexblades curse alongside a dmg buff. Hexblades curse should be a offensive buff not a defensive one.
Malaign brutality is the only feature which seems decent and its still has glaring issues. The BA attack should be reworded to be made as part if the same action when casting a spell. You already have alot of bonus actions as a warlock and hexblade which means this feature will almost always be useless. It does not even work with animate objects since that requires your BA to command the objects.
I hipe we get another revised version of the hexblade in thr next UA so we can give them more feedback because if this goes live as is or with some minor tweaks, it will be the death of my favorite subclass and character build. As someone said on this tread, with how things are rn, PotB warlocks who want to build for melee will still dip for armor and take any other subclass over this mess. Its frustratingly stupid that ALL other subclasses seem better for melee warlocks than this mess. Honestly 1 lvl in fighter is almost mandatory unless they fix the survivability issue with the hexblade and being forced to multiclass is bad design IMO.
Honestly the new Hexblade is just a mess IMO. Their are trying so hard to not make this the optimal PotB subclass when they SHOULD be leaning into that. Not to say it should be directly ties to PotB in terms of functionality, but the Hexblade should be the gish subclass for warlocks. They did it with spellsingers and honestly it looks fantastic. I dont know why they cant do that for warlocks.
in terms of AC, I have no issue with them taking away medium armor and shields, but the replacement should not be Accuraed shield. That feature is so bad its honestly mind blowing someone at WoTc looked at it and said “yeah, this looks good”. Give Hexblades the bladesinger treatment where they can add their CHA to AC. Somthing like “while not wearing medium or heavy armor, and not carrying a shield, you get a bonus to your AC eqaul to your CHA modifier while concentrating on a spell”. It would combine nicely with unyielding will and would allow warlocks to frontline without dipping.
Also certain features need to scale, the dmg from unyielding will needs to scale with warlock level or just remove it, the dmg from exploding hex needs to scale with warlock level or change the capstone entirely and accursed ciritcal needs to go back to base hexblades curse alongside a dmg buff. Hexblades curse should be a offensive buff not a defensive one.
Malaign brutality is the only feature which seems decent and its still has glaring issues. The BA attack should be reworded to be made as part if the same action when casting a spell. You already have alot of bonus actions as a warlock and hexblade which means this feature will almost always be useless. It does not even work with animate objects since that requires your BA to command the objects.
I hipe we get another revised version of the hexblade in thr next UA so we can give them more feedback because if this goes live as is or with some minor tweaks, it will be the death of my favorite subclass and character build. As someone said on this tread, with how things are rn, PotB warlocks who want to build for melee will still dip for armor and take any other subclass over this mess. Its frustratingly stupid that ALL other subclasses seem better for melee warlocks than this mess. Honestly 1 lvl in fighter is almost mandatory unless they fix the survivability issue with the hexblade and being forced to multiclass is bad design IMO.
This UA hexblade is the most pact if the blade warlock in existence, even including the old hexblade (which had no particular reason not just use edlritch blast).
1. it has a feature which allows you to attack with a weapon as a bonus attack when casting a spell with your action. if you arent using pact of the blade, this would be a simple weapon (which is inherently inferior to mattial weapons) with probably a lower ability score.
2.Unyielding will only damages enemies close to you.
3. accursed shield gives you bonus AC as long as you are in melee range with your target.
thise features alone makes it the most melee weapon focused warlock.
you can hate it or love it, but objectively its mellee focused.
most people who want medium armor, or something like unarmored defense, that are always on would be making it less melee/weapon focused. (and more boring)
As for unyielding will scaling, while i like seeing numbers go up, hexblade and warlock is already pushing the boundaries of how much dpr it should have, especially in later levels.
at level 7 it gets 2d8 per hit via spirit shroud, thats 42-43 dpr at level 7, assuming you get hit half the rounds, thats 45-47dpr.on main target, +3.5 to each additional target in range.
and that number only increases as they level, with lifedrinker at 9, (50ish dpr) (and concentrationless bestow curse if you care) level 11, more spells per SR, level 12 (60+ dpr) devouring blade, extra attack, level 14, one aoe burst per day + 19 crit rate (72+dpr) (on a class with eldricth smite) and at 17, foresight. (85+dpr)
which basically would make it dpr wise superior to almost all martials. the subclass, and likely class, really doesnt need more scaling on unyielding will, unless you are somehow going to lower its baseline damage potential.
Honestly the new Hexblade is just a mess IMO. Their are trying so hard to not make this the optimal PotB subclass when they SHOULD be leaning into that. Not to say it should be directly ties to PotB in terms of functionality, but the Hexblade should be the gish subclass for warlocks. They did it with spellsingers and honestly it looks fantastic. I dont know why they cant do that for warlocks.
in terms of AC, I have no issue with them taking away medium armor and shields, but the replacement should not be Accuraed shield. That feature is so bad its honestly mind blowing someone at WoTc looked at it and said “yeah, this looks good”. Give Hexblades the bladesinger treatment where they can add their CHA to AC. Somthing like “while not wearing medium or heavy armor, and not carrying a shield, you get a bonus to your AC eqaul to your CHA modifier while concentrating on a spell”. It would combine nicely with unyielding will and would allow warlocks to frontline without dipping.
Also certain features need to scale, the dmg from unyielding will needs to scale with warlock level or just remove it, the dmg from exploding hex needs to scale with warlock level or change the capstone entirely and accursed ciritcal needs to go back to base hexblades curse alongside a dmg buff. Hexblades curse should be a offensive buff not a defensive one.
Malaign brutality is the only feature which seems decent and its still has glaring issues. The BA attack should be reworded to be made as part if the same action when casting a spell. You already have alot of bonus actions as a warlock and hexblade which means this feature will almost always be useless. It does not even work with animate objects since that requires your BA to command the objects.
I hipe we get another revised version of the hexblade in thr next UA so we can give them more feedback because if this goes live as is or with some minor tweaks, it will be the death of my favorite subclass and character build. As someone said on this tread, with how things are rn, PotB warlocks who want to build for melee will still dip for armor and take any other subclass over this mess. Its frustratingly stupid that ALL other subclasses seem better for melee warlocks than this mess. Honestly 1 lvl in fighter is almost mandatory unless they fix the survivability issue with the hexblade and being forced to multiclass is bad design IMO.
This UA hexblade is the most pact if the blade warlock in existence, even including the old hexblade (which had no particular reason not just use edlritch blast).
1. it has a feature which allows you to attack with a weapon as a bonus attack when casting a spell with your action. if you arent using pact of the blade, this would be a simple weapon (which is inherently inferior to mattial weapons) with probably a lower ability score.
2.Unyielding will only damages enemies close to you.
3. accursed shield gives you bonus AC as long as you are in melee range with your target.
thise features alone makes it the most melee weapon focused warlock.
you can hate it or love it, but objectively its mellee focused.
most people who want medium armor, or something like unarmored defense, that are always on would be making it less melee/weapon focused. (and more boring)
As for unyielding will scaling, while i like seeing numbers go up, hexblade and warlock is already pushing the boundaries of how much dpr it should have, especially in later levels.
at level 7 it gets 2d8 per hit via spirit shroud, thats 42-43 dpr at level 7, assuming you get hit half the rounds, thats 45-47dpr.on main target, +3.5 to each additional target in range.
and that number only increases as they level, with lifedrinker at 9, (50ish dpr) (and concentrationless bestow curse if you care) level 11, more spells per SR, level 12 (60+ dpr) devouring blade, extra attack, level 14, one aoe burst per day + 19 crit rate (72+dpr) (on a class with eldricth smite) and at 17, foresight. (85+dpr)
which basically would make it dpr wise superior to almost all martials. the subclass, and likely class, really doesnt need more scaling on unyielding will, unless you are somehow going to lower its baseline damage potential.
I agree that it has melee focused features, but I disagree that they are any good.
accursed shield is a laughable boost to AC, both in terms of the actual bonus and because of all the hoops you have to jump through (having hexblades curse up which has limited uses and have to be within 10ft of that specific target and hoping it does not die too soon otherwise you lose the AC, which is counterintuitive of hexblade who usually wants to nuke that targetvas quickly as possible.)
The bonus action attack is super bad and needs to be an attack you make for feee as part of the same action. You already have too much BA features and spells, even animate objects does not work with it since it requires a BA to command the objects to move and attack.
Unyielding wills dmg is laughable to start already and it becomes worse and worse as you reach higher levels, I would much rather seeing it removed if its not gonna scale.
Also I see you are using spirit shroud as an excuse to get high DPR numbers which is the same thing treantmonk did in his video when the PotB package was put in playtest 7 of one dnd which led to it being nerfed into the ground. Spirit shroud is not in the 2024 ruleset which means it will likely get updated and nerfed into the ground a future release. Lifedrinker being a D6 dmg boost only once per turn is laughably bad and not worth an invocation. Not to mention warlocks will never be able to wield heavy weapons and go for GWM easily because of the STR requirement on both those things, to do so you would have to sacrifice you constitution and slow you CHA advancement which is a pretty steep cost.
The only ppl who are arguing in favor of this version of hexblade are ppl who either never played a bladelock i their life or ppl who hate bladelocks and what to see a bad hexblade published because of the 2014 hexblade debuckle. Truth is the 2014 hexblade wasn't even that good to tale for straight warlock builds, it was the beat option to dip in for paladins and now bladelocks are suffering for the sins of that hexblade which benefited other classes more.
This hexblade provides nothing to bladelocks. The defensjve bonuses are laughably bad and the offensive bonuses come in way too late for what they are. Why do bladesingers get to stack their INT on top of light armor while hexblades dont? Why does a feature given to lvl3 champion fighters come in at level 14? Why does nothing scale? Truth is whoever is designing these revised hexblades has no idea what to do with the subclass or what it should be/do.
I sincerely hope very few ppl have your point of view because if anything close to this version gets published bladelock players will have been screwed hard on this one. As i already said, if this or anything similar i whats published, bladelocks will have no option to build their characters without multiclassing or being at a substantial disadvantage compared to everything else at the table. I would much rather have boring and functional than trying to be too clever and cute and be worst that whats already available.
Me personally I would like to see something that fills in the gaps PotB has, while also being able to stand on its own feet and feel interesting to play but also powerful at all levels, not features which come in way too late or that do not scale and become crappy at later levels.
hexblades curse: cast hex a number of times for free equal to CHA modifier per long rest. In addition you get extra benefits against your Hex target; weapon attacks crit on a 19 against it and when reduced to 0 ho you heal D8+CHA.
unyielding will: while concentrating on a spell and not wearing medium/heavy armor and not carrying a shield, you add CHA modifier to your AC. In addition oncer per short rest when you fail concentration you can choose to pass it and gain temp HP equal to D8+warlock level.
malign brutality: when you take the magic action on your turn you can make a one weapon attack as part of the same action. When you do, the spell you cast must be of lvl1 or higher and must use a pact magic slot to cast it. (Worded in a way that the attack can be made before the spell Is cast to synergies with feature that imposes disadvantage against spells). In addition, the dmg of your Hex spell is increased to 2D6.
Armor of hexes: All damage you take from creatures cursed by your Hex spell is reduced by an amount equal to your half your warlock level and whenever that creature hits you with an attack, it takes necrotic damage equal to the dmg prevented.
masterful hex: when you hit a creature with a weapon attacks it gets disadvantage on its next saving throw against a spell until the start if your next turn.
exploding hex: when you hit a creature cursed by your Hex, you can choose to explode it in a 30ft emanation radius. All creature of your choice in the emanation take 3D6+warlock level necrotic dmg and have their speed reduced by 10ft. Once you use this feature you cant use it until long rest or by using a pact magic slot.
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I assume DW is Drunken Master and not a homebrew/third party.
How does the monk provide access to armor? Martial Arts doesn't work wearing armor and without that, the monk no longer has inherent damage scaling; dealing 1 + strength damage instead of 1d6 to 1d12 + strength or dexterity on an unarmed strike is not impressive. A monk class does not doesn't help build an armored, hammer-wielding warrior. Level 1 is a complete waste. Level 2 gives Monk's Focus and Uncanny Movement; Unarmored Movement does nothing for a monk in armor. There are aspects of his journeys which could be represented using different abilities and classes, but for the core concept of Thor, the warrior thunder god, monk doesn't work.
Ever since 1e, he is represented as being able to wear chain, at a minimum, which almost completely shuts down a monk. In Norse myth, things get less clear, but even then his Warhammer is far from a light hammer and he needs to magic items to safely wield. I can't recall if it is classic myth or Marvel where Mjolnir was a Warhammer or War Mattock (in D&D terms, a Maul) with a handle shortened to prevent two-handed use due to Loki's trickery.
You are providing an example of changing the flavor to fit the class and saying that it proves that you can use the class to fit the flavor.
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Accepting armor training is out of the question in 2024, while playing with concepts that feel more like 2014.
3rd level Hexblade Spells
Same as UA
3rd Level Hex Warrior
At 3rd level, you acquire the training necessary to effectively arm yourself for battle and power over curses that make you more effective in close quarters. You gain proficiency with martial weapons.
Hex Weapon. Whenever you finish a long rest, you can touch one weapon that you are proficient with. If the weapon is heavy you ignore disadvantage caused by not having the required Strength or Dexterity score. When you attack with that weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier, instead of Strength or Dexterity, for the attack and damage rolls. As a bonus action you may send the weapon to a pocket dimension or summon it from that pocket dimension. While in the pocket dimension the weapons is considered to be within 1ft of you. A weapon returns from the pocket dimension if you die. These benefits last until you finish a long rest. If you have/gain the Pact of the Blade invocation these benefits extend to every pact weapon you bond with or conjure with that invocation.
Hungering Hex. When a cursed enemy within 10ft of you drops to 0 hit points you regain 1d8+ your Charisma Modifier hit points.
Accused Shield. When you are within 10ft of a cursed enemy you gain +2 to your AC as long as you aren't wearing medium armor, heavy armor, or using a shield.
3rd Level Unyielding Will
Same as UA
6th Level Malign Brutality
Accursed Critical. Any melee attack roll you make against a cursed target scores a Critical Hit on a 19 or 20 on the d20.
Harrowing Hex. Same as UA
Hindering Curse. When you hit a target cursed by you with an attack roll, the target has disadvantage on its next saving throw before the start of your next turn.
10th Level Armor of Hexes
If an enemy that is cursed by you deals damage to you, you can use your reaction to roll a d6. On a 6 you take no damage. If you don’t roll a 6 you instead reduce the damage by your Warlock level + the number rolled on the d6.
14 Level Master of Hexes
Hexblade’s Curse. You can curse one creature within 30 feet of you that fails a saving throw against a level 1+ warlock spell that requires concentration that you cast with Hexblade’s curse. The Hexblade’s curse ends when the spell ends.
It ends immediately if you place another creature under a Hexblade’s curse.You deal an additional 1d8 necrotic or psychic damage (your choice) to a creature suffering from Hexblade’s curse when you hit them with an attack roll. When a creature suffering Hexblade’s curse ends its turn more than 30ft from you they take 1d4 psychic damage.Inescapable Hex. If a cursed creature starts its turn within 10 ft of you and ends its turn 30ft or further from you, but within 100ft of you, you can teleport to an unoccupied space within 10ft of the creature.
So, at 3rd level, you're trading ignoring Dexterity and Strength penalties on Heavy Weapons instead of the Hexblade Curse ability Charisma times per day. Instead, Hungering Hex, Accursed Shield, Hindering Curse (6th), Inescapable Hex (6th), Armor of Hexes, Accursed Critical, and Explosive Hex all key off of any curse. Seems too strong to me.
I assume Accursed Critical only applies to attacks by you against the cursed target?
One in 6 chance to negate the damage from an attack completely? Too strong. Armor of Hexes is fine. Because of the scaling, it could appear lower in the subclass features, but it is okay at 10.
Inescapable Hex is too good. Combined with a long duration spell, Hexblade's Curse can become an automatic kill, particularly when triggered without the target being aware. Booming Blade deals the damage once per hit. Even without a particularly long duration, this triggers off of Cantrips, like Create Bonfire, and low-level spells, like Cause Fear. This is once it fails the original save, it's ongoing damage with no save to shrug off unless the original spell allows one (like Friends). Technically, with Suggestion, it's a death sentence since the damage is a rider effect and so suggestion doesn't obviously cause damage. This true for Dream as well if you make the messenger terrifying to the target. Both of these can lead to a potential 4,800d4 damage. Not to mention that you can set up chain with Hindering Curse followed by Hexblade's Curse. As a Warlock player, nope.
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Hex weapon restores some of the 2014 Hexblade fuctionality.
Hex and Bestow Curse are the only ways for a player to curse an enemy in the core rules. I believe there is another spell in the expanded rules. This only opens up use for team play if someone else in your party can cast those spells. So allowing some things to trigger on any cursed enemy isn’t as strong as you are imagining.
Yeah Accursed Critical is the Hexblade’s attacks.
If you think my Armor of Hexes is too strong you didn’t play a Hexblade to high levels with the 2014 rules. They have a 50% chance to avoid all attack roll hits from their cursed target. A 17% chance to negate all damage with some reduction if you fail to negate isn’t that strong compared to 50% against all attack rolls.
Inescapable Hex is definitely not too strong. I wrote that kind of as a joke. If an enemy your party was fighting teleports out of sight of the entire party are you brave enough to follow? You don’t know how far, only that if it works you are on the same plane of existence.
Hexblade’s Curse has multiple oversights. That should have been level 1+ warlock spell. I didn’t think of Dream. Also I can’t just assume an enemy would have access to Dispel Magic, Remove Curse, Greater Restoration, or some way to remove the curse. I originally wrote it to only work on concentration spells which might be the more balanced option. Also it should only be applied if the target is within 30ft of you when you cast the spell. I’ll edit my post.
I think you're missing the point of my original post. I can't tell whether you're doing it intentionally to be argumentative, or not.
In this case, I would not make a monk to do an armored warrior Thor. The point of the original post, is that you can choose whatever class necessary to make a concept work, and ignore the fluff that WOTC provides. Monk's a chassis. It's got a set of mechanics. If those mechanics fit, the character is a monk whether he ever set foot in a monastery or not. I feel like the point of YOUR post was to deflect from the point I was making, hone in on a very specific case that was not relevant to my original point and use that as proof that I was wrong. Since I don't feel you're discussing things with any shred of intellectual honesty, I will just leave you to your opinion, and hope you have a wonderful day.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I am not advocating reclaiming the 2014 effectiveness of Armor of Hexes.
Teleporting to a foe out of sight is foolish. Teleporting adjacent to a fast moving target can result in wild movement distances that aren't matched by equivalent options for other classes.
The Hexblade was restricted from selecting weapons with the two-handed properties. Ignoring ability modifiers isn't really in line with "restoring some of the functionality". The pocket dimension storage is also new. Actually, nothing Hex Weapon does restores any functionality; it's all new.
Wait. Your version keys off any curse not just those cast by the Hexblade (which in 2014 they could do about once per encounter). That's a massive buff. I'd have to check if there are any multitarget curses that make the Hexblade more effective in multitarget encounters as well as single target ones.
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I think you're missing the point of my original post that you responded to.
The Hexblade is a set of flavor, an armored warrior using curses and melee weapons in battle. The UA version strips away the medium armor proficiency and adds a feature to encourage unarmored play.
This is equivalent to taking an armored warrior, known for wielding a heavy weapon and saying this is now a monk. No armor, maybe light weapons. Some treatments of Thor refer to him as unarmored and looking like a peasant so a way of the Elements monk may fit that (and scaling up the throwable light hammer does a decent Mjolnir impression), but for a traditional representation of an armored warrior, monk is off base. I have repeatedly said that monk is not mechanically good at representing an armored Thor and you are now telling me to ignore the monastery associations of monk. Who cares about monasteries? When did I say monastery traditions was the blocker here?
I have been an advocate of classes are mechanic/stat sticks that you flavor however you want since 3.0.
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My point is my version of Armor of Hexes is not to strong compared to what was already in the game?
For my version of Inescapable Hex to work the Warlock would have to be within 10 feet of a cursed target at the start of the targets turn. It’s not near as strong as you think. You have to check 2 boxes before it’s usable, and any creature that can move on other’s turns can definitely escape.
I question whether you played a Hexblade in 2014. I think you said you were a Warlock player, but you didn’t specifically say Hexblade, so I might have made an assumption. In 2014 Pact of the Blade allowed you to use any weapon and when paired with Hex Warrior you could have a heavy weapon as your pact/hex weapon. In 2024 the new restriction on heavy weapons makes it difficult for people to make some of the same builds they once had. So yes allowing them to ignore the new heavy weapon restrictions is bringing back old Hexblade functionality. Also by having hex warrior and pact of the blade separate it allows for two weapons for those that prefer that. More importantly it allows a player to not take pact of the blade if that is what they want. They would still get a Hexblade experience without using an invocation. Obviously the experience is improved by PotB, but the option should be there just like in 2014.
Curses that players can use are very rare to be honest. Bestow Curse and Hex are it in the core rules that are player facing. The DM usually handles all other curses. Raven loft has a section about creating curses, but that’s DM facing. By no means was the Hexblade balanced and ready for the game. I just like to put out ideas, but i base them off of concepts that already exist so they aren’t tipping the power scale.
Armor of Hexes isn’t an ideal design even It was +2 AC. It functions as a stackable AC mechanic, which introduces unnecessary complications and balance issues. Medium Armor was already the cleaner, more elegant solution — which is exactly why it was part of the 2014 version.
The 2014 edition was improved armor via medium armor and shields PLUS armor of hexes giving you a (conditional) 50% miss chance. With increased access to disadvantage in 2024 (an ally with sap, for example), something has to go and medium armor doesn't have to be the casualty, but the 2014 version was too good to continue in 2024. Honestly, I'd like to see them get damage reduction equal to their proficiency bonus versus the cursed target on every hit (flat, constant value with no additional rolls) or Warlock level with restricted uses (scales better and encourages single class characters but too strong to be every hit)..
Proficiency bonus damage reduction seems weak but I am curious how it would combo with medium armor, false life/armor of Agathys.
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What if the hexblade could use a attunement slot to give a wepon there holding or a pack wepon extra abilities equal to their cha mod? They could have a list of things they could add to there attuned wepon. Like a plus to there attack and damage roll , an additional die of elemental damage, maybe an improved crit range. Things like that
The 2014 Hexblade is a beloved and iconic subclass — its popularity is undeniable. That’s why any changes should be approached with passion and care, always respecting its core identity.
Just look at the BG3 statistics below as evidence of its lasting appeal.
Let’s focus on making the Hexblade a refined evolution — one that stays true to its original concept and mechanics.
Honestly the new Hexblade is just a mess IMO. Their are trying so hard to not make this the optimal PotB subclass when they SHOULD be leaning into that. Not to say it should be directly ties to PotB in terms of functionality, but the Hexblade should be the gish subclass for warlocks. They did it with spellsingers and honestly it looks fantastic. I dont know why they cant do that for warlocks.
in terms of AC, I have no issue with them taking away medium armor and shields, but the replacement should not be Accuraed shield. That feature is so bad its honestly mind blowing someone at WoTc looked at it and said “yeah, this looks good”. Give Hexblades the bladesinger treatment where they can add their CHA to AC. Somthing like “while not wearing medium or heavy armor, and not carrying a shield, you get a bonus to your AC eqaul to your CHA modifier while concentrating on a spell”. It would combine nicely with unyielding will and would allow warlocks to frontline without dipping.
Also certain features need to scale, the dmg from unyielding will needs to scale with warlock level or just remove it, the dmg from exploding hex needs to scale with warlock level or change the capstone entirely and accursed ciritcal needs to go back to base hexblades curse alongside a dmg buff. Hexblades curse should be a offensive buff not a defensive one.
Malaign brutality is the only feature which seems decent and its still has glaring issues. The BA attack should be reworded to be made as part if the same action when casting a spell. You already have alot of bonus actions as a warlock and hexblade which means this feature will almost always be useless. It does not even work with animate objects since that requires your BA to command the objects.
I hipe we get another revised version of the hexblade in thr next UA so we can give them more feedback because if this goes live as is or with some minor tweaks, it will be the death of my favorite subclass and character build. As someone said on this tread, with how things are rn, PotB warlocks who want to build for melee will still dip for armor and take any other subclass over this mess. Its frustratingly stupid that ALL other subclasses seem better for melee warlocks than this mess. Honestly 1 lvl in fighter is almost mandatory unless they fix the survivability issue with the hexblade and being forced to multiclass is bad design IMO.
This UA hexblade is the most pact if the blade warlock in existence, even including the old hexblade (which had no particular reason not just use edlritch blast).
1. it has a feature which allows you to attack with a weapon as a bonus attack when casting a spell with your action. if you arent using pact of the blade, this would be a simple weapon (which is inherently inferior to mattial weapons) with probably a lower ability score.
2.Unyielding will only damages enemies close to you.
3. accursed shield gives you bonus AC as long as you are in melee range with your target.
thise features alone makes it the most melee weapon focused warlock.
you can hate it or love it, but objectively its mellee focused.
most people who want medium armor, or something like unarmored defense, that are always on would be making it less melee/weapon focused. (and more boring)
As for unyielding will scaling, while i like seeing numbers go up, hexblade and warlock is already pushing the boundaries of how much dpr it should have, especially in later levels.
at level 7 it gets 2d8 per hit via spirit shroud, thats 42-43 dpr at level 7, assuming you get hit half the rounds, thats 45-47dpr.on main target, +3.5 to each additional target in range.
and that number only increases as they level, with lifedrinker at 9, (50ish dpr) (and concentrationless bestow curse if you care) level 11, more spells per SR, level 12 (60+ dpr) devouring blade, extra attack, level 14, one aoe burst per day + 19 crit rate (72+dpr) (on a class with eldricth smite) and at 17, foresight. (85+dpr)
which basically would make it dpr wise superior to almost all martials. the subclass, and likely class, really doesnt need more scaling on unyielding will, unless you are somehow going to lower its baseline damage potential.
I agree that it has melee focused features, but I disagree that they are any good.
accursed shield is a laughable boost to AC, both in terms of the actual bonus and because of all the hoops you have to jump through (having hexblades curse up which has limited uses and have to be within 10ft of that specific target and hoping it does not die too soon otherwise you lose the AC, which is counterintuitive of hexblade who usually wants to nuke that targetvas quickly as possible.)
The bonus action attack is super bad and needs to be an attack you make for feee as part of the same action. You already have too much BA features and spells, even animate objects does not work with it since it requires a BA to command the objects to move and attack.
Unyielding wills dmg is laughable to start already and it becomes worse and worse as you reach higher levels, I would much rather seeing it removed if its not gonna scale.
Also I see you are using spirit shroud as an excuse to get high DPR numbers which is the same thing treantmonk did in his video when the PotB package was put in playtest 7 of one dnd which led to it being nerfed into the ground. Spirit shroud is not in the 2024 ruleset which means it will likely get updated and nerfed into the ground a future release. Lifedrinker being a D6 dmg boost only once per turn is laughably bad and not worth an invocation. Not to mention warlocks will never be able to wield heavy weapons and go for GWM easily because of the STR requirement on both those things, to do so you would have to sacrifice you constitution and slow you CHA advancement which is a pretty steep cost.
The only ppl who are arguing in favor of this version of hexblade are ppl who either never played a bladelock i their life or ppl who hate bladelocks and what to see a bad hexblade published because of the 2014 hexblade debuckle. Truth is the 2014 hexblade wasn't even that good to tale for straight warlock builds, it was the beat option to dip in for paladins and now bladelocks are suffering for the sins of that hexblade which benefited other classes more.
This hexblade provides nothing to bladelocks. The defensjve bonuses are laughably bad and the offensive bonuses come in way too late for what they are. Why do bladesingers get to stack their INT on top of light armor while hexblades dont?
Why does a feature given to lvl3 champion fighters come in at level 14? Why does nothing scale?
Truth is whoever is designing these revised hexblades has no idea what to do with the subclass or what it should be/do.
I sincerely hope very few ppl have your point of view because if anything close to this version gets published bladelock players will have been screwed hard on this one. As i already said, if this or anything similar i whats published, bladelocks will have no option to build their characters without multiclassing or being at a substantial disadvantage compared to everything else at the table. I would much rather have boring and functional than trying to be too clever and cute and be worst that whats already available.
Me personally I would like to see something that fills in the gaps PotB has, while also being able to stand on its own feet and feel interesting to play but also powerful at all levels, not features which come in way too late or that do not scale and become crappy at later levels.
hexblades curse: cast hex a number of times for free equal to CHA modifier per long rest. In addition you get extra benefits against your Hex target; weapon attacks crit on a 19 against it and when reduced to 0 ho you heal D8+CHA.
unyielding will: while concentrating on a spell and not wearing medium/heavy armor and not carrying a shield, you add CHA modifier to your AC. In addition oncer per short rest when you fail concentration you can choose to pass it and gain temp HP equal to D8+warlock level.
malign brutality: when you take the magic action on your turn you can make a one weapon attack as part of the same action. When you do, the spell you cast must be of lvl1 or higher and must use a pact magic slot to cast it. (Worded in a way that the attack can be made before the spell Is cast to synergies with feature that imposes disadvantage against spells). In addition, the dmg of your Hex spell is increased to 2D6.
Armor of hexes: All damage you take from creatures cursed by your Hex spell is reduced by an amount equal to your half your warlock level and whenever that creature hits you with an attack, it takes necrotic damage equal to the dmg prevented.
masterful hex: when you hit a creature with a weapon attacks it gets disadvantage on its next saving throw against a spell until the start if your next turn.
exploding hex: when you hit a creature cursed by your Hex, you can choose to explode it in a 30ft emanation radius. All creature of your choice in the emanation take 3D6+warlock level necrotic dmg and have their speed reduced by 10ft. Once you use this feature you cant use it until long rest or by using a pact magic slot.