Doesn’t matter that you don’t consider picking something and thus giving up other possibilties a sacrifice. It is. You have sacrificed the other possibilites. So multiclassing gives you more spell slots but you lose out on higher level spells and features. That’s a sacrifice as well, no matter how you consider it. I’m not against a Gish Sorcerer. I’m just telling you that you are never going to get one that has smites or a smite like feature because it will simply be far better at it than half casters. They just did a ton of work trying to rebalance the game, why would they throw it away to make a Sorcerer that can just smite better than a Paladin, still has all of its feat choices, and has its full spell progression because it didn’t have to multi class. Oh and let’s not forget that any smite spell that has a saving throw you would likely have a higher DC as a sorcerer. This becomes especially egregious if this gish subclass uses Cha for weapon attacks and damage which is a staple of gish subclasses now a days.
With 6 Paladin/14 Sorcerer you get spellslots up to lvl 9. in fact you have the amount of spell slots like a lvl 17 sorcerer. Yes, less than a lvl 20, but you can not ignore, that a loss somewhere is also a gain somewhere else, no matter what you consider it to be. You mentioned it yourself, Aura of Protection, Extra Attack… And yes, now we have a de facto paladin and sorcerer, who can do smites up to lvl 9. Or you could also sacrifice that 9th level spell slot for a dip in Warlock and Pact of the Blade. There is your SAD Paladin with lvl 8 smites and using CHA for attacks.
And for the record, I never said that a GISH sorcer HAS TO HAVE smites. It was an option. And Wrathful at least is obtainable already.
On a side note, when the new FR campaign setting will be released it will most likely contain the Bladesinger. Than we‘ve got a INT SAD GISH with CME and whatever on top, which might compete with the Valour Bard in that department. Yes, CME is not a smite, but damage-wise especially when upcast it is more than close.
A wizard subclass that competes with a bard subclass is fine. A Sorcerer subclass that would out smite the Paladin class is bad. It would get its smites earlier and they would be stronger. You example of a Paladin/Sorcerers multiclasss is what players should do if they want to smite as a Sorcerer. It is not justification to give a Sorcerer subclass smites. If we get a Sorcerer Subclass that is similar to Bladesinger and Valor Bard that would be fine. That is literally what you said you didn’t want.
A gish Sorcerer Subclass should have a more creative way to improve martial prowess than extra attack at lvl 6. It should be heavily related to his lore and flavour.
smite like attacks would be a good option. A different way to add another weapon attack would be nessesary too. Maybe some kind of Deja Vu attack for a Time Sorcerer. Create illusion which make weapon attacks for an Illusion Sorcery... Idk. Stuff like that.
When you cast Flame Blade you can cast it with a spell slot as normal or cast it with Sorcery points by expending a number equal to the level at which you want to cast the spell. You may only expend Sorcery points up to a number equal to half your level rounded up. When you use Sorcery Points to cast Flame Blade its duration is 1 minute and it has the following benefits.
You may choose the damage type: Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Necrotic, Poison, or Radiant
You may use the blade as a focus.
The blade counts as a weapon worth 10 gp for your Sorcerer spells that require a material component.
3rd Warrior’s Blood
When you complete a short or long rest you can roll a number of d6 equal to your sorcerer level and gain temporary hit points equal to the result. Additionally when you cast Arcane Vigor you gain a number of temporary hit points equal to the hit points restored by the spell.
6th Swift Blade
When you use a Magic Action to attack with Flame Blade you may make a second attack with the Blade as part of the same Action. If you hit with this second attack you only roll half the damage die rounded down.
14th Arcane Shields
When you cast Shield you gain 1d4+5 to your AC and if you are hit before the start of your next turn you regain the spell slot. Additionally when you cast Fire Shield you can choose the resistance and damage type separately, and can choose from Acid,Cold, Fire, Lightning, Necrotic, Poison, Radiant, or Thunder.
18th Arcane Blade Master
Anytime you hit with Flame Blade you can choose the damage type and you can choose any damage type. Additionally, once on your turn when you hit with Flame Blade you may use your bonus action to expend a spell slot and add 1d6+1d6 per spell slot level additional damage of the same type as Flame Blade.
I am not interested in another "Bladesinger, but for Sorcerer" gish. It just feels like you're duct-taping a weapon attack option onto a caster.wer of a spell into a melee attack. Maybe even just a way to upgrade the existing melee cantrips with spell slots.
Now about your Arcane Warrior subclass. Why can‘t Thunder be chosen for the Flame Blade, but Radiant? Radiant btw. outclasses the damage types regarding reliability, as it is mostly resisted by creatures you will find the least as adversaries. That‘s like the Transmuters ‚Philosopher Stone‘ (or however it was called) and the bonus to CON saves outclassing all other options. If one choice is clearly better than the others, there is no choice.
Since you set no limit on the sorcery points able to spent on an FB per level. a sorcerer of lower level can simply sacrifice spell slots to acquire a 9th level 10d6 (radiant) flame blade via sorcery points. No problem at Tier 2 already.
Your level 18 feature basically is a 2014 smite. Yes, it‘s d6s instead of d8s, but much like the Eldritch Smite it comes without the need to spend a bonus action. And the Warlock has a limited amount of spell slots on top, compared to the Sorcerer. Plus now you have a Flame Blade, which might have been upcast already to 10d6+Cha damage per hit, and you throw your 9th lvl spell slot to add another 10d6 damage to a hit. That‘s 20d6, another 19d6+Cha/2 on the second hit (all radiant), and with the bonus action still available to cast a quickened chromatic orb.
How does this not outshine a Paladin?
Further, why not „Warrior Sorcery“ or similar, as every subclass now is called something with ‚Sorcery‘, like every subclass in 2014 was containing the word „bloodline“.
Scatter wrote his post and then you replied, “ I do very much agree.” I don’t see a reason why I need to copy paste or quote previously stated things. You either very much agree with scatter or you don’t. I really don’t care either way. As for the Arcane Warrior the Arcane Blade feature does state you can only expend Sorcery points up to half your level rounded up. So you couldn’t just cast Flame Blade at a higher level. The highest level a full sorcerer could cast it at. Would be the same as their highest level spell slot. The typo is it’s supposed to read half your level in this class. So as I wrote it you could be a level 9 sorcerer/8 non caster or half caster and still be able to use sorcery points to cast level 9 flame blade. This is a mistake and is fixed by adding “in this class” or “half your sorcerer leve; rounded up.”
Why no thunder, because I think a fire that does thunder damage is stupid. No other reason. I almost left poison off the list also. As far as damage types being better than others it’s objectively false. They don’t matter. Damage type is mostly flavor unless you are playing in prewritten adventures. All that matters is can you do full damage or is it resisted. Occasionally something is vulnerable, but the DM decides all of this. Honestly the way 2024 is written I could have just said you can make force damage and been done with it.
My 18th level ability is just smite, but it offers nothing but more dice rolls at a lower sized dice. You don’t get it til the Paladin has gotten to play with all of their different kind of smites. Also you have to use your bonus action to use this feature just like smite spells so it’s limited to once on your turn. That also means you aren’t using your bonus action to quicken a spell, which in many cases would be the objectively better option. Also you missed that the second attack only allows you to roll half the damage dice. So if your first attack is 10d6+5, your second would only be 5d6+5.
This was made as an example that is not like a bladesinger, but doesn’t poop all over the Paladin or other Martial classes. It’s a melee subclass, but isn’t a Gish. It’s uses the sorcerer resources to stay in melee. It relies on mage armor and shield to remain in the frontline. The flaws I see looking at it now is that I missed noting it should be sorcerer level for Arcane blade. It probably needs wording to stop it from multiclassing to get heavy armor and a shield. Maybe capping the capstone to only 5th level or lower spell slots. Considering I made this up in an hour while half sleep I’m shocked it’s not worse.
Scatter wrote his post and then you replied, “ I do very much agree.” I don’t see a reason why I need to copy paste or quote previously stated things. You either very much agree with scatter or you don’t. I really don’t care either way. As for the Arcane Warrior the Arcane Blade feature does state you can only expend Sorcery points up to half your level rounded up. So you couldn’t just cast Flame Blade at a higher level. The highest level a full sorcerer could cast it at. Would be the same as their highest level spell slot. The typo is it’s supposed to read half your level in this class. So as I wrote it you could be a level 9 sorcerer/8 non caster or half caster and still be able to use sorcery points to cast level 9 flame blade. This is a mistake and is fixed by adding “in this class” or “half your sorcerer leve; rounded up.”
Why no thunder, because I think a fire that does thunder damage is stupid. No other reason. I almost left poison off the list also. As far as damage types being better than others it’s objectively false. They don’t matter. Damage type is mostly flavor unless you are playing in prewritten adventures. All that matters is can you do full damage or is it resisted. Occasionally something is vulnerable, but the DM decides all of this. Honestly the way 2024 is written I could have just said you can make force damage and been done with it.
My 18th level ability is just smite, but it offers nothing but more dice rolls at a lower sized dice. You don’t get it til the Paladin has gotten to play with all of their different kind of smites. Also you have to use your bonus action to use this feature just like smite spells so it’s limited to once on your turn. That also means you aren’t using your bonus action to quicken a spell, which in many cases would be the objectively better option. Also you missed that the second attack only allows you to roll half the damage dice. So if your first attack is 10d6+5, your second would only be 5d6+5.
This was made as an example that is not like a bladesinger, but doesn’t poop all over the Paladin or other Martial classes. It’s a melee subclass, but isn’t a Gish. It’s uses the sorcerer resources to stay in melee. It relies on mage armor and shield to remain in the frontline. The flaws I see looking at it now is that I missed noting it should be sorcerer level for Arcane blade. It probably needs wording to stop it from multiclassing to get heavy armor and a shield. Maybe capping the capstone to only 5th level or lower spell slots. Considering I made this up in an hour while half sleep I’m shocked it’s not worse.
For clarification, I agree that a solution other than a Valour Bard/Bladesinger copy would be very welcome. Neither did I say „It has to be“, nor did I say „I insist on a sorcerer Gish getting smites. I said, I don‘t see a reason why this option is not viable, especially if it‘s only one, or two smite spells, and not the whole arsenal, and of course not the signature spell, Divine Smite. But Thunderous Smite, why not? Hey, Clerics now got some Paladin spells like Aura of Vitality. Does this also count as „pooping all over the paladin“?
Uhuh, fire that does thunder damage is stupid. But fire that does cold/lightning/poison/necrotic damage is fine? Please expand.
Regarding the second attack, I wrote 19d6+CHA/2. ‚/2‘ means ‚divided by 2‘.
Other than that this is a pretty boring subclass, mechanical-wise. No synergies. Just some beefed up spells.
Scatter wrote his post and then you replied, “ I do very much agree.” I don’t see a reason why I need to copy paste or quote previously stated things. You either very much agree with scatter or you don’t. I really don’t care either way. As for the Arcane Warrior the Arcane Blade feature does state you can only expend Sorcery points up to half your level rounded up. So you couldn’t just cast Flame Blade at a higher level. The highest level a full sorcerer could cast it at. Would be the same as their highest level spell slot. The typo is it’s supposed to read half your level in this class. So as I wrote it you could be a level 9 sorcerer/8 non caster or half caster and still be able to use sorcery points to cast level 9 flame blade. This is a mistake and is fixed by adding “in this class” or “half your sorcerer leve; rounded up.”
Why no thunder, because I think a fire that does thunder damage is stupid. No other reason. I almost left poison off the list also. As far as damage types being better than others it’s objectively false. They don’t matter. Damage type is mostly flavor unless you are playing in prewritten adventures. All that matters is can you do full damage or is it resisted. Occasionally something is vulnerable, but the DM decides all of this. Honestly the way 2024 is written I could have just said you can make force damage and been done with it.
My 18th level ability is just smite, but it offers nothing but more dice rolls at a lower sized dice. You don’t get it til the Paladin has gotten to play with all of their different kind of smites. Also you have to use your bonus action to use this feature just like smite spells so it’s limited to once on your turn. That also means you aren’t using your bonus action to quicken a spell, which in many cases would be the objectively better option. Also you missed that the second attack only allows you to roll half the damage dice. So if your first attack is 10d6+5, your second would only be 5d6+5.
This was made as an example that is not like a bladesinger, but doesn’t poop all over the Paladin or other Martial classes. It’s a melee subclass, but isn’t a Gish. It’s uses the sorcerer resources to stay in melee. It relies on mage armor and shield to remain in the frontline. The flaws I see looking at it now is that I missed noting it should be sorcerer level for Arcane blade. It probably needs wording to stop it from multiclassing to get heavy armor and a shield. Maybe capping the capstone to only 5th level or lower spell slots. Considering I made this up in an hour while half sleep I’m shocked it’s not worse.
Uhuh, fire that does thunder damage is stupid. But fire that does cold/lightning/poison/necrotic damage is fine? Please expand.
Well thunder is based on sound, while the others are more open to interpretation - fire that’s actually freezing cold could make sense, fire could realistically be poisonous if the gas for the fire was poisonous, necrotic and lightning make less sense but still could be interpreted as some sort of death fuelled fire or an electric fire
What color is sound. For all the others I can imagine something that looks like fire but isn’t dealing the damage.
Your math is just wrong. Where is the 19d6 coming from? It’s 5d6+Cha max on that second attack. Unless you use one of the synergies you claim this subclass lacks.
This subclass has one of the best synergies a spellcaster could have. It takes a concentration spell and makes that spell not require concentration. If you are saying you don’t see any game breaking combos that makes me happy. I avoid designing game breakers. The point was to make a melee focused Sorcerer that didn’t look Valor or bladesinger. I did it in less than a hour, with only few blatant flaws. Whether or not it’s boring or fun is up to the individual.
Well thunder is based on sound, while the others are more open to interpretation - fire that’s actually freezing cold could make sense, fire could realistically be poisonous if the gas for the fire was poisonous, necrotic and lightning make less sense but still could be interpreted as some sort of death fuelled fire or an electric fire
Thunder is based on…lightning. Too bad WotC got rid of the term Sonic damage after 3rd Ed.
What color is sound. For all the others I can imagine something that looks like fire but isn’t dealing the damage.
Your math is just wrong. Where is the 19d6 coming from? It’s 5d6+Cha max on that second attack. Unless you use one of the synergies you claim this subclass lacks.
This subclass has one of the best synergies a spellcaster could have. It takes a concentration spell and makes that spell not require concentration. If you are saying you don’t see any game breaking combos that makes me happy. I avoid designing game breakers. The point was to make a melee focused Sorcerer that didn’t look Valor or bladesinger. I did it in less than a hour, with only few blatant flaws. Whether or not it’s boring or fun is up to the individual.
What colour is poison? Green? Seriously? Let‘s play by that logic though, why is Green Flame Blade not poisonous then? Flames can also be blue. Why no blue flame blade then? What colour is radiant? White? Could also be yellow, when you look at some video games. Why does that actually matter?
A Thunder Blade could look like a colourless, vibrating blur,, which emits sonic, aka thunder damage upon impact.
Please expand what synergies those subclass abilities have towards each other. And this is not about power level. This is about mechanics.
It could look like anything, but I took an hour to write up a subclass, so it works on whatever logic I choose. Real fire can be any color depending on what is burning and temperature. A magical poisonous mist that looks like fire could be green, orange, or any color you can imagine. A magical frost that looks like fire would be white or blue. A magical sound that has no color is hard for me to imagine it looks like fire, so I left it out of the subclass I wrote. You asked the question that you should answer yourself. Why does it matter? The feature has more than enough damage types. Why are you so fixated on it having thunder damage. This isn’t even a real subclass.
As for synergies the first ability gives you a list of spells you can cast. Most of the other abilities improve those spells in a way allowing you to use them more effectively as a close range combatant. Arcane Blade allows you to use FB as the material component for both Conjure Barrage and Steel Wind Strike. Warrior’s Blood allows you to stay in the front line long enough to use your FB more than once. Swift Blade synergies with FB, Arcane Shield’s allow you to front line a little more, and Arcane Blade Master lets you change the damage type with each hit of FB and lets you do a smite like ability. It all works together to make you a close range fighter-like sorcerer while still letting cast a concentration spell and play with all the other Sorcerer features. I’m not sure what synergies you are looking, but this thing is pretty linear in its progression and a the abilities sync for one purpose. Here are spells including FB, here is a spell improvement for FB and here is a defensive improvement. Next is another improvement for FB, then a Defensive spell improvement. Finally another improvement for flame blade.
It could look like anything, but I took an hour to write up a subclass, so it works on whatever logic I choose. Real fire can be any color depending on what is burning and temperature. A magical poisonous mist that looks like fire could be green, orange, or any color you can imagine. A magical frost that looks like fire would be white or blue. A magical sound that has no color is hard for me to imagine it looks like fire, so I left it out of the subclass I wrote. You asked the question that you should answer yourself. Why does it matter? The feature has more than enough damage types. Why are you so fixated on it having thunder damage. This isn’t even a real subclass.
As for synergies the first ability gives you a list of spells you can cast. Most of the other abilities improve those spells in a way allowing you to use them more effectively as a close range combatant. Arcane Blade allows you to use FB as the material component for both Conjure Barrage and Steel Wind Strike. Warrior’s Blood allows you to stay in the front line long enough to use your FB more than once. Swift Blade synergies with FB, Arcane Shield’s allow you to front line a little more, and Arcane Blade Master lets you change the damage type with each hit of FB and lets you do a smite like ability. It all works together to make you a close range fighter-like sorcerer while still letting cast a concentration spell and play with all the other Sorcerer features. I’m not sure what synergies you are looking, but this thing is pretty linear in its progression and a the abilities sync for one purpose. Here are spells including FB, here is a spell improvement for FB and here is a defensive improvement. Next is another improvement for FB, then a Defensive spell improvement. Finally another improvement for flame blade.
Because if your ability does not feature Thunder damage, which can be considered one of the "elemental" damage types, it should not feature radiant damage either, which is more of a "divine", or "holy" damage type.
Addendum: Chromatic Orb can deal Thunder damage, although it is a Chromatic Orb (chromatic = relating to or produced by colour).
Thus being able to choose between Acid, Fire, Lightning, Cold would suffice already. If at all Thunder makes sense, even with it being considered colourless, or Force, but Force would render all other options almost useless.
On a side note, to me it is a riddle why True Strike features Radiant instead of Force damage, as it is more in line with the Arcane...respectively why True Strike was not given to Clerics and Druids in the first place, and something like "Arcane Strike" to users of arcane magic. One of the many design flaws like tieing ability score bonuses to solely backgrounds, but that's another story.
The Synergies I am looking for is later subclass features improving, or adding to earlier subclass features, plus also banking on possible features of the class itself. Yours pretty much all stand alone, or if at all, are upgradable with Metamagic.
Radiant damage is not only holy or divine damage in 5e DnD. It can be radiation (sickening radiance) and or lasers (futuristic weapons and sun sword) based on official materials. If anything radiant makes the most sense because of sacred flame proving radiant damage officially can look like fire. Also fire shield offers a chill shield that deals cold damage. So if I were to limit this to damage types that officially look like fire it would be cold, fire, psychic, and radiant damage. That is not the limit I chose.
Chromatic orb doesn’t have to look like fire. The color of the orb and the damage type it does aren’t necessarily linked. That is not how I, the writer of this subclass, imagined it at the time of my writing. I was thinking more of Bleach, tenchi muyo, and other anime with magical swords, but wanted to use things already in the game like FB as a basis instead of writing a whole new feature. Again as the writer your logic means nothing to my imagination. It’s weird you are still fixated on this.
True Strike is radiant because they didn’t want just another force damage cantrip. It was also to say divine casters don’t have a monopoly on radiant damage.
I’m not sure what else there is for it to have synergy with. You admit it has synergy within the subclass and with metamagic which is offered by base Sorcerer. It also works with Innate Sorcery. There isn’t much else in the base Sorcerer for it to sync with.
The sun blade is divine. There is even a good aligned sentient sun blade (The Dawnbringer) in the Out of the Abyss campaign. It‘s not a Jedi lightsabre. About Sci-Fi, well Spelljammer is not Star Wars either. And Sickening Radiance is no gamma ray spell.
This is not about Chromatic Orb looking like fire or not. You said you have no idea what a Thunder Blade would look like, and brought colours into play. Somehow the game makes it work with Chromatic Orb, though. Although colour is pretty much in it‘s very name. Also, this is DnD, and the default setting is Forgotten Realms…not Tenchi Muyo. Try to stick to the fundamentals.
Sorcerer spells are mostly tied to elemental damage types, see Sorcerous Burst, Chromatic Orb, etc. And this is not only about flavour, but balancing. Thus giving a spell the ability to do cold, fire, psychic, and radiant damage is pretty futile, as players would pick either radiant, or psychic about 99.9% of the time.
Is it really so hard to understand, what I mean with Synergy. A higher level feat, which is tied to a lower level one. I built a Sorcerer subclass weeks ago. Guess what, it has Blade Singer mechanics…and features 2 smites.
The lvl 14 subclass feature has a synergy tied to the list of expanded spells. The lvl 18 subclass feature is an upgrade to the lvl 6 subclass feature. That‘s what I meant. Yours are just standalone mechanics, not intertwined.
How long have you been in this hobby? Clearly not long enough. The default setting for their books is Forgotten Realms, but I can’t write anything officially for the default setting. I don’t work for WotC. Also everything is suppose to be setting agnostic, so it can work in multiple settings with no or little tweaks. Spelljammer isn’t Star Wars, but laser rifles aren’t divine weapons either. Proving my point. Also don’t lie. I have been playing D&D for two decades now and own enough books to fact check anything. There is nothing inherently Divine about the Sun Blade. Additionally there is nothing Divine about Sickening Radiance. All of these prove my point. Your head canon only matters at your table.
Well the reason I didn’t put Thunder is because I can’t imagine it looking like fire and sound’s lack of color plays into that. CO damage is coming from an orb of colorful light. FB damage is coming from a blade that appears to be fire. Also I wrote the subclass. No matter how much you try to logic your way through this it’s not going to work. I explained my reason, let it go.
You are wrong. My features are definitely tied to one another. I literally explained how they are tied together. Please see previous post, or just look at the subclass again at tell me what the 6th and 18th level features do without the 3rd level features. Tell me how 14th level feature works without the expanded spell list giving you the spell.
If you like your own designs I get it. You should. If you had good criticisms or critiques of my design I would be happy to hear them. In this case you are just wrong and making objectively false claims, or believing your opinions and head cannon somehow supersede my opinions and design choice. Most importantly none of this matters. WotC isn’t going to come on this forum and make this subclass official. It was meant as an example of a possible design. If you like yours, then use yours.
How long have you been in this hobby? Clearly not long enough. The default setting for their books is Forgotten Realms, but I can’t write anything officially for the default setting. I don’t work for WotC. Also everything is suppose to be setting agnostic, so it can work in multiple settings with no or little tweaks. Spelljammer isn’t Star Wars, but laser rifles aren’t divine weapons either. Proving my point. Also don’t lie. I have been playing D&D for two decades now and own enough books to fact check anything. There is nothing inherently Divine about the Sun Blade. Additionally there is nothing Divine about Sickening Radiance. All of these prove my point. Your head canon only matters at your table.
Well the reason I didn’t put Thunder is because I can’t imagine it looking like fire and sound’s lack of color plays into that. CO damage is coming from an orb of colorful light. FB damage is coming from a blade that appears to be fire. Also I wrote the subclass. No matter how much you try to logic your way through this it’s not going to work. I explained my reason, let it go.
You are wrong. My features are definitely tied to one another. I literally explained how they are tied together. Please see previous post, or just look at the subclass again at tell me what the 6th and 18th level features do without the 3rd level features. Tell me how 14th level feature works without the expanded spell list giving you the spell.
If you like your own designs I get it. You should. If you had good criticisms or critiques of my design I would be happy to hear them. In this case you are just wrong and making objectively false claims, or believing your opinions and head cannon somehow supersede my opinions and design choice. Most importantly none of this matters. WotC isn’t going to come on this forum and make this subclass official. It was meant as an example of a possible design. If you like yours, then use yours.
I started playing PnP, or TTRPGs in 1984 (Midgard, The Dark Eye), D&D in particular in 1989. Remember the Red, Blue, Green and Black boxes? That‘s what I started D&D with. And there were plenty other systems. Your accusations are out of place.
Back then and until 5e the default campaign setting was Greyhawk, aka Points of Light. And yes, there always has been a default. Of course, other campaigns emerged over time. Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Dark Sun, Mystara, Al‘Qadim, Spelljammer, Planescape… yet, the general rulebooks as such always were based upon the default setting. So much for that. And all those settings had one thing in common. At the end of the day they were all ‚Sword & Sorcery‘, with Dark Sun being a bit of a novelty with Psionics (Yep, you would not find them elsewhere back in the day). Tbh. the introduction of firearms in the PHB is kind of a novelty. Some older blokes like myself would even find this blasphemous.
There were no laser guns in D&D high fantasy settings, at least not as much as I can remember. As far as I can remember not even in Spelljammer. And I am not talking about homebrew. There was no radiant, necrotic, or thunder damage either, before the emergence of the 4th edition in 2008. Radiant basically replaced by Positive Energy (which was usually harmful only to Undead), Necrotic replaced Negative Energy, and Thunder replaced Sonic.
Jesus, now I am even called a liar. Who do you think create sunblades? Take a closer look:
Another mention is Scintilmorn, which is lost within the Undermountain.
Sun blades emit sunlight, yes. And that’s considered a divine in D&D. Guess why Angels and Archons (and many Cleric spells) deal radiant damage, resp. are resistant to it?
Liar…wrong…I could throw the same back at you. Again, your subclass feats have no synergy. You just have not gotten the idea. Look at the lvl 3 Steps of the Fey and lvl 6 Misty Escape subclass feat of the Fey warlock. They got synergy. Your subclass does not have anything like that. Yours is a loose collection of abilities, and beefed up spells.
It’s crazy that you understand that the game has fundamentally moved away from positive and negative energy and has moved away from being strictly sword and sorcery, yet you continue hold fast to radiant and divine/holy being the same thing. They are not. Also stop bringing up the dawnbringer because that is a different thing than the sun blade. If you look up the sun blade it doesn’t mention crap about it being a holy weapon. Again you are using your head cannon or maybe even stuff from editions past that simply is not true in 5e. We are talking about an edition with godless Paladins. Somehow you think in 5e Sunlight is divine. That’s only your head cannon.
As for the subclass I’ve already realized you have no critiques worth listening to, but you are free to whatever opinion you want. Even if your information is objectively wrong.
There were no laser guns in D&D high fantasy settings, at least not as much as I can remember. As far as I can remember not even in Spelljammer. And I am not talking about homebrew.
Blackmoor. Specifically, module DA3: City of the Gods. Though it might not count, as it was always a bit wibbly-wobbly if Blackmoor counted as an official D&D setting.
I have pondered this same question before (from the OP) as to me it makes the most sense for a warrior who has inherited magic to become a hybrid spellcaster/martial. To avoid the age old: "Give a warrior some fringe magic juice, or a spellcaster an iron stick" the best gish would probably be a class for themselves. Halfcasters are cute but have a plethora of challenges to really encompass the fantasy; action economy, spell slot lvl progression contra spell lvl relevancy (that Paladin getting Banishment at lvl 13 is not really jumping for joy when his fullcaster colleagues have been casting it since lvl 7).
In absence of a dedicated hybrid class and to not copy the existing attempts at gishes like EK-Fighter, Valor Bard, and Bladesinger Wizards, I think Ain made a relatively appealing concept. Although I don't get why there's a mud-flinging contest going on. The concept was made in a short timespan and is thus prone to criticism. Berating the effort of making a different concept because of design choices seems counter intuitive to the purpose of the thread. I hope you've had a breather and can return to this discussion with a more open mind and less hostile intent.
Personally I have some points of critique or suggestions myself:
Arcane Blade:
I would probably just limit the level you can cast to a level for which you have spell slots - so you can multiclass but never cast beyond your means. (Also the Sorc Point casting technically allows for casting it at 10th level as a lvl 19/20 Sorc halved and rounded up would be 10. Without intricate knowledge that Spell Slots only goes up to 9th level, this would cause some confusion. Minor thing to fix.)
Or alternatively just make you always upcast at Spell Slot Level + 1 to a maximum of 9th level. This doesn't specifically tax your Sorcery Points but accomplishes something similar (you get more out of your resources). To avoid a lvl 3 Sorcerer running around with a 4d6 + MOD damage weapon, this feature should perhaps be introduced at lvl 6 instead and let lvl 3 be more about survival.
You mentioned somewhere that a major benefit was making a concentration spell not require concentration. I don't see this in the original concept, but I may have missed it in a following post - I was skimming. It is indeed a needed benefit as it hinges a lot of its functions on the Flame Blade spell.
Personally I find a major draw for martial classes to be magic items. Cramming this entire subclass over to only using Flame Blade (or be stupid not to) would remove that option, unless you make a specific option to coat a physical weapon with the properties of the Flame Blade. Something along the lines: You can cast Flame Blade to enhance a weapon you wield. Once on your turn when you deal damage with the enhanced weapon, you may replace the weapon's damage dice with the damage dice from the Flame Blade spell. For instance if you attack with a Longsword that have a damage die of a d8, and you have enhanced it with a level 2 Flame Blade that when dealing damage does 3d6, instead of dealing 1d8 + other bonuses and modifiers, you instead deal 3d6 + other bonuses and modifiers.
This would put them on line with other martials that acquire +X weapons or weapons with magical properties and it would open up weapon-centric feats (like PAM, GWM), Fighting Styles and Weapon Mastery. The lvl 3 subclass feature should likely include Weapon Proficiency with Melee Martial Weapons.
The Sorc only gets 1x resource-free attack per turn, +1 BA by paying 2x Sorc Points, so they are still going to be behind on the damage scale. I don't particularly mind that this Sorc have to burn spell slots to fuel their Sorc Points to somewhat keep up with Martials. The issue I have is that it is not granted through the subclass, so the player themselves have to conjure this synergy up by picking Metamagic: Quicken Spell and a Sword-Cantrip (Booming Blade, Green-Flame Blade, or True Strike)
The level 3 class feature might just provide you with the ability to damage convert, use as a spell focus, and counts as a Longsword when not enhancing a weapon. Maybe include that weapon attacks can use CHA as modifier for attack/damage rolls. The level 6 could then upgrade that to provide +1 lvl upcasting (and potentially the better damage conversion - like Thunder/Radiant/Necrotic/Psychic).
I could be tempted to ask: Should it allow Innate Sorcery to provide a bonus to your attacks as well? I know using Flame Blade as the spell intends is a spell attack and gets the bonus, but
Lvl 3 Warrior's Blood
Short/Long Rest to gain on average 3.5 x Sorc Level as Temporary HP is on one hand a potential buttload of Temp HP. On the other hand it doesn't assist you on the most crucial aspects: Avoiding damage altogether like AC might. AFAIK Temp HP doesn't shield you against Concentration breaks as Concentration Saving Throws only care about damage taken, not Hit Points lost.
To pivot a bit: The Bladesinger have a bonus to AC, they have access to Shield and Absorb Elements and their level 10 feature allows them to pop Spell Slots to reduce damage. One major aspect to their defenses: It requires their Reaction. Shield often wins because it provides a major chance to completely avoid damage, and it counts against all attacks until your next turn. As such the other defensive options rarely ever make sense if Shield is an alternative. This is on top of the Bladesinger's +INT to AC bonus.
Back to Warrior's Blood: To allow Arcane Vigor to grant you some Temp HP back is a smart synergy that is close to doubling its effective "healing". However I fear the Sorc's D6 Hit Dice + MOD and the amount of Hit Dice available is not really going to last a full adventuring day.
As such I would strongly suggest something else or at least some tweaks to make it function better to prevent damage (and concentration breaks). Looking to the Abjurer's Arcane Ward as a concept could perhaps function toward that end.
I would also strongly suggest not to implement a "no-armor" rule, as that also F's over magical items like the Elven Chain that any other Sorc/Wiz/Warl might pick up to boost their AC. As for multiclassing to pick up Medium/Heavy Armor Training; sure it skews things when the subclass also can provide a bonus to AC and spell casting provides even more. However this is already an option for all other subclasses AND it does require a stat investment. DEX for Medium and STR for Heavy. The -10 Speed for not fulfilling the STR req. on Heavy might be offset with spellcasting but then again that's a cost.
An EK-Fighter also gets to wield Heavy Armor, have a ton of Extra Attacks and can cast Shield and Absorb Elements. They can concentrate on Blade Ward/Blur/Haste to add more to their defenses. If you play with backwards compatible content and your DM is more laissez faire there's also Silvery Barbs. The EK just falls a bit short of slinging spells around due to spell slot progression and spellcasting modifier not being great due to MAD between STR/DEX for attacks, CON for survival/Concentration and then INT to boost your very late utility spells. You're often better of only using spells that don't have a barrier for success (AC/DC).
Lvl 6 Swift Blade
A lvl 6 Sorc would have lvl 3 spell slots, for a Flame Blade of 4d6. 1.5x the dice is 6d6 plus 2x MOD (4) is ~ 29 avg. dmg. The Two-Hander GWM Fighter at lvl 5 would be dealing 4d6 + 2x MOD (4) + 2x Prof. Bonus (3) ~ 28 avg. damage.
A lvl 11 Sorc would have lvl 6 spell slots, for a Flame Blade of 7d6. 1.5x the dice (rounded down) is 10d6 plus 2x MOD (5) ~ 45 avg. dmg. The Fighter is looking at 6d6 + 3x MOD (5) + 3x Prof. Bonus (4) ~ 48 avg. dmg.
I'll say that seems a little too good for the Sorc - even if it does require the use of their highest level spell slot (or 3 Sorc Points). And this is not even considering that the Sorc could use a BA to Quicken a TS/BB/GFB weapon attack.
Perhaps this could just be a: "Pay 1 Sorc Point, make a melee weapon attack as a Bonus Action."
Considering the modified lvl 3 feature would count Flame Blade as a Longsword on its own, it has its own damage calculation as a weapon attack and uses CHA. You could also use Metamagic to pay 2 and cast a Sword-cantrip (TS, BB, GFB) for the cantrip upgrade damage instead, but it would burn your Sorc Points faster.
This construction of the features: Utilizing weapons as a medium, using CHA for weapon attacks, having the Flame Blade's "bonus" damage apply on hitting with the Flame Blade (weapon) but only as a once on your turn, secures a bit against bad attack roll luck and feels more cohesive for a warrior-caster hybrid. It also means you can cast a 1st+ level spell and still get the Flame Blade damage.
It is bastardizing the Flame Blade spell a bit, to the point where it might be cleaner to just make the Arcane Blade feature provide the damage boost itself in exchange for spending a lvl 2+ spell slot / 2+ Sorc Points.
Lvl 14 Arcane Shield
It is late to provide conditional, temporary, additional AC to a class that is likely running around with Mage Armor's 13 + DEX (2-3). The jump between lvl 6 to lvl 14 for subclass features is also... a long while where the subclass doesn't grant you anything additional. Especially for a subclass that attempts to significantly alter your play pattern. Perhaps this is the true reason why Sorc hasn't gotten a gish subclass.
The spell slot recovery is mostly a feel-better about not using lvl 2-3 spell slots to cast Shield, but in all likelihood you're not spending your spell slots all that much if you're flaming on with Flame Blade chomping on your Magic Action. With the modified features (where Flame Blade's damage can be applied to any singular weapon hit and cheaper BA-weapon attack) this definitely gets a lot more use as you can more easily spend your BA to attack and get the damage boost and then your Magic Action to cast damage/control/utility spells. (And just to anchor this benefit, the main difference between what you can currently do on existing Sorc subclasses and the suggested modified features of this subclass is paying 1 Sorc Point to the lvl 6 feature instead of 2 on Quickened Spell. Secondary is the use of magical weapons with Flame Blade's attack and more flexibility.)
The added flexibility to Fire Shield is nice, but elemental damage resistances can be a bit wonky to rely on unless your enemies are firmly affiliated with one damage type. The difference between paying 2 Sorc Points for Quickened Spell (and obviously the need for that Metamagic) and 1 Sorc Points to make a BA de facto Flame Blade attack is not big, but I think it might be big enough to not want to use it unless a majority of your adversaries use that elemental damage type.
In other words; I don't know what I would expect to need at this level, but I feel like this might not be it.
Lvl 18 Arcane Blade Master
Not much to say.
If following the modified features above, you already expect to use your BA to make a weapon attack (possibly boosted by Arcane Blade). So perhaps this feature would instead just remove the "Once on your turn" limit for Arcane Blade's damage boost - meaning a 9th lvl Flame Blade deals 2x (10d6 + MOD [5] + weapon bonus [3] ) ~ 86 avg. dmg. In comparison the Two-Hander GWM Fighter deals 4x (2d6 + MOD [5] + Prof. Bonus [6] + weapon bonus [3] ) ~ 84 avg. dmg.
So if instead of casting Wish, you cast a 9th level Flame Blade, you get the same average damage as the Fighter (minus subclass benefits and very vanilla magic items) - for 1/10 minutes. Although with better damage types.
I don't find that troublesome when it is 6th+ level spell slots that are only one of per Long Rest.
And instead of trading Spell Slots for additional damage, I would probably grant another benefit.
Kinda similar to the lvl 14 subclass feature; don't know what I would need.
Anyway, that's my thoughts following a couple of hours brainstorming. Maybe a later revisit will result in more creative suggestions from myself or from others.
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With 6 Paladin/14 Sorcerer you get spellslots up to lvl 9. in fact you have the amount of spell slots like a lvl 17 sorcerer. Yes, less than a lvl 20, but you can not ignore, that a loss somewhere is also a gain somewhere else, no matter what you consider it to be. You mentioned it yourself, Aura of Protection, Extra Attack… And yes, now we have a de facto paladin and sorcerer, who can do smites up to lvl 9. Or you could also sacrifice that 9th level spell slot for a dip in Warlock and Pact of the Blade. There is your SAD Paladin with lvl 8 smites and using CHA for attacks.
And for the record, I never said that a GISH sorcer HAS TO HAVE smites. It was an option. And Wrathful at least is obtainable already.
On a side note, when the new FR campaign setting will be released it will most likely contain the Bladesinger. Than we‘ve got a INT SAD GISH with CME and whatever on top, which might compete with the Valour Bard in that department. Yes, CME is not a smite, but damage-wise especially when upcast it is more than close.
A wizard subclass that competes with a bard subclass is fine. A Sorcerer subclass that would out smite the Paladin class is bad. It would get its smites earlier and they would be stronger.
You example of a Paladin/Sorcerers multiclasss is what players should do if they want to smite as a Sorcerer. It is not justification to give a Sorcerer subclass smites. If we get a Sorcerer Subclass that is similar to Bladesinger and Valor Bard that would be fine. That is literally what you said you didn’t want.
A gish Sorcerer Subclass should have a more creative way to improve martial prowess than extra attack at lvl 6. It should be heavily related to his lore and flavour.
smite like attacks would be a good option. A different way to add another weapon attack would be nessesary too. Maybe some kind of Deja Vu attack for a Time Sorcerer. Create illusion which make weapon attacks for an Illusion Sorcery... Idk. Stuff like that.
Here a Gish sorcerer that is not a Gish at all really.
Arcane Warrior
3rd Arcane Warrior Spells
3rd Arcane Blade
When you cast Flame Blade you can cast it with a spell slot as normal or cast it with Sorcery points by expending a number equal to the level at which you want to cast the spell. You may only expend Sorcery points up to a number equal to half your level rounded up. When you use Sorcery Points to cast Flame Blade its duration is 1 minute and it has the following benefits.
3rd Warrior’s Blood
When you complete a short or long rest you can roll a number of d6 equal to your sorcerer level and gain temporary hit points equal to the result. Additionally when you cast Arcane Vigor you gain a number of temporary hit points equal to the hit points restored by the spell.
6th Swift Blade
When you use a Magic Action to attack with Flame Blade you may make a second attack with the Blade as part of the same Action. If you hit with this second attack you only roll half the damage die rounded down.
14th Arcane Shields
When you cast Shield you gain 1d4+5 to your AC and if you are hit before the start of your next turn you regain the spell slot. Additionally when you cast Fire Shield you can choose the resistance and damage type separately, and can choose from Acid,Cold, Fire, Lightning, Necrotic, Poison, Radiant, or Thunder.
18th Arcane Blade Master
Anytime you hit with Flame Blade you can choose the damage type and you can choose any damage type. Additionally, once on your turn when you hit with Flame Blade you may use your bonus action to expend a spell slot and add 1d6+1d6 per spell slot level additional damage of the same type as Flame Blade.
No! Scatterbrand said that, not myself. See below:
Now about your Arcane Warrior subclass. Why can‘t Thunder be chosen for the Flame Blade, but Radiant? Radiant btw. outclasses the damage types regarding reliability, as it is mostly resisted by creatures you will find the least as adversaries. That‘s like the Transmuters ‚Philosopher Stone‘ (or however it was called) and the bonus to CON saves outclassing all other options. If one choice is clearly better than the others, there is no choice.
Since you set no limit on the sorcery points able to spent on an FB per level. a sorcerer of lower level can simply sacrifice spell slots to acquire a 9th level 10d6 (radiant) flame blade via sorcery points. No problem at Tier 2 already.
Your level 18 feature basically is a 2014 smite. Yes, it‘s d6s instead of d8s, but much like the Eldritch Smite it comes without the need to spend a bonus action. And the Warlock has a limited amount of spell slots on top, compared to the Sorcerer. Plus now you have a Flame Blade, which might have been upcast already to 10d6+Cha damage per hit, and you throw your 9th lvl spell slot to add another 10d6 damage to a hit. That‘s 20d6, another 19d6+Cha/2 on the second hit (all radiant), and with the bonus action still available to cast a quickened chromatic orb.
How does this not outshine a Paladin?
Further, why not „Warrior Sorcery“ or similar, as every subclass now is called something with ‚Sorcery‘, like every subclass in 2014 was containing the word „bloodline“.
Scatter wrote his post and then you replied, “ I do very much agree.” I don’t see a reason why I need to copy paste or quote previously stated things. You either very much agree with scatter or you don’t. I really don’t care either way.
As for the Arcane Warrior the Arcane Blade feature does state you can only expend Sorcery points up to half your level rounded up. So you couldn’t just cast Flame Blade at a higher level. The highest level a full sorcerer could cast it at. Would be the same as their highest level spell slot. The typo is it’s supposed to read half your level in this class. So as I wrote it you could be a level 9 sorcerer/8 non caster or half caster and still be able to use sorcery points to cast level 9 flame blade. This is a mistake and is fixed by adding “in this class” or “half your sorcerer leve; rounded up.”
Why no thunder, because I think a fire that does thunder damage is stupid. No other reason. I almost left poison off the list also. As far as damage types being better than others it’s objectively false. They don’t matter. Damage type is mostly flavor unless you are playing in prewritten adventures. All that matters is can you do full damage or is it resisted. Occasionally something is vulnerable, but the DM decides all of this. Honestly the way 2024 is written I could have just said you can make force damage and been done with it.
My 18th level ability is just smite, but it offers nothing but more dice rolls at a lower sized dice. You don’t get it til the Paladin has gotten to play with all of their different kind of smites. Also you have to use your bonus action to use this feature just like smite spells so it’s limited to once on your turn. That also means you aren’t using your bonus action to quicken a spell, which in many cases would be the objectively better option. Also you missed that the second attack only allows you to roll half the damage dice. So if your first attack is 10d6+5, your second would only be 5d6+5.
This was made as an example that is not like a bladesinger, but doesn’t poop all over the Paladin or other Martial classes. It’s a melee subclass, but isn’t a Gish. It’s uses the sorcerer resources to stay in melee. It relies on mage armor and shield to remain in the frontline. The flaws I see looking at it now is that I missed noting it should be sorcerer level for Arcane blade. It probably needs wording to stop it from multiclassing to get heavy armor and a shield. Maybe capping the capstone to only 5th level or lower spell slots. Considering I made this up in an hour while half sleep I’m shocked it’s not worse.
For clarification, I agree that a solution other than a Valour Bard/Bladesinger copy would be very welcome. Neither did I say „It has to be“, nor did I say „I insist on a sorcerer Gish getting smites. I said, I don‘t see a reason why this option is not viable, especially if it‘s only one, or two smite spells, and not the whole arsenal, and of course not the signature spell, Divine Smite. But Thunderous Smite, why not? Hey, Clerics now got some Paladin spells like Aura of Vitality. Does this also count as „pooping all over the paladin“?
Uhuh, fire that does thunder damage is stupid. But fire that does cold/lightning/poison/necrotic damage is fine? Please expand.
Regarding the second attack, I wrote 19d6+CHA/2. ‚/2‘ means ‚divided by 2‘.
Other than that this is a pretty boring subclass, mechanical-wise. No synergies. Just some beefed up spells.
Well thunder is based on sound, while the others are more open to interpretation - fire that’s actually freezing cold could make sense, fire could realistically be poisonous if the gas for the fire was poisonous, necrotic and lightning make less sense but still could be interpreted as some sort of death fuelled fire or an electric fire
What color is sound. For all the others I can imagine something that looks like fire but isn’t dealing the damage.
Your math is just wrong. Where is the 19d6 coming from? It’s 5d6+Cha max on that second attack. Unless you use one of the synergies you claim this subclass lacks.
This subclass has one of the best synergies a spellcaster could have. It takes a concentration spell and makes that spell not require concentration. If you are saying you don’t see any game breaking combos that makes me happy. I avoid designing game breakers. The point was to make a melee focused Sorcerer that didn’t look Valor or bladesinger. I did it in less than a hour, with only few blatant flaws. Whether or not it’s boring or fun is up to the individual.
Thunder is based on…lightning. Too bad WotC got rid of the term Sonic damage after 3rd Ed.
What colour is poison? Green? Seriously? Let‘s play by that logic though, why is Green Flame Blade not poisonous then? Flames can also be blue. Why no blue flame blade then? What colour is radiant? White? Could also be yellow, when you look at some video games. Why does that actually matter?
A Thunder Blade could look like a colourless, vibrating blur,, which emits sonic, aka thunder damage upon impact.
Please expand what synergies those subclass abilities have towards each other. And this is not about power level. This is about mechanics.
It could look like anything, but I took an hour to write up a subclass, so it works on whatever logic I choose. Real fire can be any color depending on what is burning and temperature. A magical poisonous mist that looks like fire could be green, orange, or any color you can imagine. A magical frost that looks like fire would be white or blue. A magical sound that has no color is hard for me to imagine it looks like fire, so I left it out of the subclass I wrote. You asked the question that you should answer yourself. Why does it matter? The feature has more than enough damage types. Why are you so fixated on it having thunder damage. This isn’t even a real subclass.
As for synergies the first ability gives you a list of spells you can cast. Most of the other abilities improve those spells in a way allowing you to use them more effectively as a close range combatant. Arcane Blade allows you to use FB as the material component for both Conjure Barrage and Steel Wind Strike. Warrior’s Blood allows you to stay in the front line long enough to use your FB more than once. Swift Blade synergies with FB, Arcane Shield’s allow you to front line a little more, and Arcane Blade Master lets you change the damage type with each hit of FB and lets you do a smite like ability. It all works together to make you a close range fighter-like sorcerer while still letting cast a concentration spell and play with all the other Sorcerer features. I’m not sure what synergies you are looking, but this thing is pretty linear in its progression and a the abilities sync for one purpose. Here are spells including FB, here is a spell improvement for FB and here is a defensive improvement. Next is another improvement for FB, then a Defensive spell improvement. Finally another improvement for flame blade.
Because if your ability does not feature Thunder damage, which can be considered one of the "elemental" damage types, it should not feature radiant damage either, which is more of a "divine", or "holy" damage type.
Addendum: Chromatic Orb can deal Thunder damage, although it is a Chromatic Orb (chromatic = relating to or produced by colour).
Thus being able to choose between Acid, Fire, Lightning, Cold would suffice already. If at all Thunder makes sense, even with it being considered colourless, or Force, but Force would render all other options almost useless.
On a side note, to me it is a riddle why True Strike features Radiant instead of Force damage, as it is more in line with the Arcane...respectively why True Strike was not given to Clerics and Druids in the first place, and something like "Arcane Strike" to users of arcane magic. One of the many design flaws like tieing ability score bonuses to solely backgrounds, but that's another story.
The Synergies I am looking for is later subclass features improving, or adding to earlier subclass features, plus also banking on possible features of the class itself. Yours pretty much all stand alone, or if at all, are upgradable with Metamagic.
Radiant damage is not only holy or divine damage in 5e DnD. It can be radiation (sickening radiance) and or lasers (futuristic weapons and sun sword) based on official materials. If anything radiant makes the most sense because of sacred flame proving radiant damage officially can look like fire. Also fire shield offers a chill shield that deals cold damage. So if I were to limit this to damage types that officially look like fire it would be cold, fire, psychic, and radiant damage. That is not the limit I chose.
Chromatic orb doesn’t have to look like fire. The color of the orb and the damage type it does aren’t necessarily linked. That is not how I, the writer of this subclass, imagined it at the time of my writing. I was thinking more of Bleach, tenchi muyo, and other anime with magical swords, but wanted to use things already in the game like FB as a basis instead of writing a whole new feature. Again as the writer your logic means nothing to my imagination. It’s weird you are still fixated on this.
True Strike is radiant because they didn’t want just another force damage cantrip. It was also to say divine casters don’t have a monopoly on radiant damage.
I’m not sure what else there is for it to have synergy with. You admit it has synergy within the subclass and with metamagic which is offered by base Sorcerer. It also works with Innate Sorcery. There isn’t much else in the base Sorcerer for it to sync with.
The sun blade is divine. There is even a good aligned sentient sun blade (The Dawnbringer) in the Out of the Abyss campaign. It‘s not a Jedi lightsabre. About Sci-Fi, well Spelljammer is not Star Wars either. And Sickening Radiance is no gamma ray spell.
This is not about Chromatic Orb looking like fire or not. You said you have no idea what a Thunder Blade would look like, and brought colours into play. Somehow the game makes it work with Chromatic Orb, though. Although colour is pretty much in it‘s very name. Also, this is DnD, and the default setting is Forgotten Realms…not Tenchi Muyo. Try to stick to the fundamentals.
Sorcerer spells are mostly tied to elemental damage types, see Sorcerous Burst, Chromatic Orb, etc. And this is not only about flavour, but balancing. Thus giving a spell the ability to do cold, fire, psychic, and radiant damage is pretty futile, as players would pick either radiant, or psychic about 99.9% of the time.
Is it really so hard to understand, what I mean with Synergy. A higher level feat, which is tied to a lower level one. I built a Sorcerer subclass weeks ago. Guess what, it has Blade Singer mechanics…and features 2 smites.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subclasses/2619524-angelic-sorcery-sorcerer-gish-subclass
The lvl 14 subclass feature has a synergy tied to the list of expanded spells. The lvl 18 subclass feature is an upgrade to the lvl 6 subclass feature. That‘s what I meant. Yours are just standalone mechanics, not intertwined.
How long have you been in this hobby? Clearly not long enough. The default setting for their books is Forgotten Realms, but I can’t write anything officially for the default setting. I don’t work for WotC. Also everything is suppose to be setting agnostic, so it can work in multiple settings with no or little tweaks. Spelljammer isn’t Star Wars, but laser rifles aren’t divine weapons either. Proving my point. Also don’t lie. I have been playing D&D for two decades now and own enough books to fact check anything. There is nothing inherently Divine about the Sun Blade. Additionally there is nothing Divine about Sickening Radiance. All of these prove my point. Your head canon only matters at your table.
Well the reason I didn’t put Thunder is because I can’t imagine it looking like fire and sound’s lack of color plays into that. CO damage is coming from an orb of colorful light. FB damage is coming from a blade that appears to be fire. Also I wrote the subclass. No matter how much you try to logic your way through this it’s not going to work. I explained my reason, let it go.
You are wrong. My features are definitely tied to one another. I literally explained how they are tied together. Please see previous post, or just look at the subclass again at tell me what the 6th and 18th level features do without the 3rd level features. Tell me how 14th level feature works without the expanded spell list giving you the spell.
If you like your own designs I get it. You should. If you had good criticisms or critiques of my design I would be happy to hear them. In this case you are just wrong and making objectively false claims, or believing your opinions and head cannon somehow supersede my opinions and design choice. Most importantly none of this matters. WotC isn’t going to come on this forum and make this subclass official. It was meant as an example of a possible design. If you like yours, then use yours.
I started playing PnP, or TTRPGs in 1984 (Midgard, The Dark Eye), D&D in particular in 1989. Remember the Red, Blue, Green and Black boxes? That‘s what I started D&D with. And there were plenty other systems. Your accusations are out of place.
Back then and until 5e the default campaign setting was Greyhawk, aka Points of Light. And yes, there always has been a default. Of course, other campaigns emerged over time. Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Dark Sun, Mystara, Al‘Qadim, Spelljammer, Planescape… yet, the general rulebooks as such always were based upon the default setting. So much for that. And all those settings had one thing in common. At the end of the day they were all ‚Sword & Sorcery‘, with Dark Sun being a bit of a novelty with Psionics (Yep, you would not find them elsewhere back in the day).
Tbh. the introduction of firearms in the PHB is kind of a novelty. Some older blokes like myself would even find this blasphemous.
There were no laser guns in D&D high fantasy settings, at least not as much as I can remember. As far as I can remember not even in Spelljammer. And I am not talking about homebrew. There was no radiant, necrotic, or thunder damage either, before the emergence of the 4th edition in 2008. Radiant basically replaced by Positive Energy (which was usually harmful only to Undead), Necrotic replaced Negative Energy, and Thunder replaced Sonic.
Jesus, now I am even called a liar. Who do you think create sunblades? Take a closer look:
https://dnd5e.*******.com/wondrous-items:dawnbringer
Another mention is Scintilmorn, which is lost within the Undermountain.
Sun blades emit sunlight, yes. And that’s considered a divine in D&D. Guess why Angels and Archons (and many Cleric spells) deal radiant damage, resp. are resistant to it?
Liar…wrong…I could throw the same back at you. Again, your subclass feats have no synergy. You just have not gotten the idea. Look at the lvl 3 Steps of the Fey and lvl 6 Misty Escape subclass feat of the Fey warlock. They got synergy. Your subclass does not have anything like that. Yours is a loose collection of abilities, and beefed up spells.
Anyway, this is getting way too personal.
It’s crazy that you understand that the game has fundamentally moved away from positive and negative energy and has moved away from being strictly sword and sorcery, yet you continue hold fast to radiant and divine/holy being the same thing. They are not. Also stop bringing up the dawnbringer because that is a different thing than the sun blade. If you look up the sun blade it doesn’t mention crap about it being a holy weapon. Again you are using your head cannon or maybe even stuff from editions past that simply is not true in 5e. We are talking about an edition with godless Paladins. Somehow you think in 5e Sunlight is divine. That’s only your head cannon.
As for the subclass I’ve already realized you have no critiques worth listening to, but you are free to whatever opinion you want. Even if your information is objectively wrong.
Blackmoor. Specifically, module DA3: City of the Gods. Though it might not count, as it was always a bit wibbly-wobbly if Blackmoor counted as an official D&D setting.
I have pondered this same question before (from the OP) as to me it makes the most sense for a warrior who has inherited magic to become a hybrid spellcaster/martial. To avoid the age old: "Give a warrior some fringe magic juice, or a spellcaster an iron stick" the best gish would probably be a class for themselves. Halfcasters are cute but have a plethora of challenges to really encompass the fantasy; action economy, spell slot lvl progression contra spell lvl relevancy (that Paladin getting Banishment at lvl 13 is not really jumping for joy when his fullcaster colleagues have been casting it since lvl 7).
In absence of a dedicated hybrid class and to not copy the existing attempts at gishes like EK-Fighter, Valor Bard, and Bladesinger Wizards, I think Ain made a relatively appealing concept. Although I don't get why there's a mud-flinging contest going on. The concept was made in a short timespan and is thus prone to criticism. Berating the effort of making a different concept because of design choices seems counter intuitive to the purpose of the thread. I hope you've had a breather and can return to this discussion with a more open mind and less hostile intent.
Personally I have some points of critique or suggestions myself:
Arcane Blade:
I would probably just limit the level you can cast to a level for which you have spell slots - so you can multiclass but never cast beyond your means.
(Also the Sorc Point casting technically allows for casting it at 10th level as a lvl 19/20 Sorc halved and rounded up would be 10. Without intricate knowledge that Spell Slots only goes up to 9th level, this would cause some confusion. Minor thing to fix.)
Or alternatively just make you always upcast at Spell Slot Level + 1 to a maximum of 9th level. This doesn't specifically tax your Sorcery Points but accomplishes something similar (you get more out of your resources). To avoid a lvl 3 Sorcerer running around with a 4d6 + MOD damage weapon, this feature should perhaps be introduced at lvl 6 instead and let lvl 3 be more about survival.
You mentioned somewhere that a major benefit was making a concentration spell not require concentration. I don't see this in the original concept, but I may have missed it in a following post - I was skimming. It is indeed a needed benefit as it hinges a lot of its functions on the Flame Blade spell.
Personally I find a major draw for martial classes to be magic items. Cramming this entire subclass over to only using Flame Blade (or be stupid not to) would remove that option, unless you make a specific option to coat a physical weapon with the properties of the Flame Blade. Something along the lines: You can cast Flame Blade to enhance a weapon you wield. Once on your turn when you deal damage with the enhanced weapon, you may replace the weapon's damage dice with the damage dice from the Flame Blade spell.
For instance if you attack with a Longsword that have a damage die of a d8, and you have enhanced it with a level 2 Flame Blade that when dealing damage does 3d6, instead of dealing 1d8 + other bonuses and modifiers, you instead deal 3d6 + other bonuses and modifiers.
This would put them on line with other martials that acquire +X weapons or weapons with magical properties and it would open up weapon-centric feats (like PAM, GWM), Fighting Styles and Weapon Mastery. The lvl 3 subclass feature should likely include Weapon Proficiency with Melee Martial Weapons.
The Sorc only gets 1x resource-free attack per turn, +1 BA by paying 2x Sorc Points, so they are still going to be behind on the damage scale. I don't particularly mind that this Sorc have to burn spell slots to fuel their Sorc Points to somewhat keep up with Martials. The issue I have is that it is not granted through the subclass, so the player themselves have to conjure this synergy up by picking Metamagic: Quicken Spell and a Sword-Cantrip (Booming Blade, Green-Flame Blade, or True Strike)
The level 3 class feature might just provide you with the ability to damage convert, use as a spell focus, and counts as a Longsword when not enhancing a weapon. Maybe include that weapon attacks can use CHA as modifier for attack/damage rolls. The level 6 could then upgrade that to provide +1 lvl upcasting (and potentially the better damage conversion - like Thunder/Radiant/Necrotic/Psychic).
I could be tempted to ask: Should it allow Innate Sorcery to provide a bonus to your attacks as well? I know using Flame Blade as the spell intends is a spell attack and gets the bonus, but
Lvl 3 Warrior's Blood
Short/Long Rest to gain on average 3.5 x Sorc Level as Temporary HP is on one hand a potential buttload of Temp HP. On the other hand it doesn't assist you on the most crucial aspects: Avoiding damage altogether like AC might. AFAIK Temp HP doesn't shield you against Concentration breaks as Concentration Saving Throws only care about damage taken, not Hit Points lost.
To pivot a bit: The Bladesinger have a bonus to AC, they have access to Shield and Absorb Elements and their level 10 feature allows them to pop Spell Slots to reduce damage. One major aspect to their defenses: It requires their Reaction. Shield often wins because it provides a major chance to completely avoid damage, and it counts against all attacks until your next turn. As such the other defensive options rarely ever make sense if Shield is an alternative. This is on top of the Bladesinger's +INT to AC bonus.
Back to Warrior's Blood: To allow Arcane Vigor to grant you some Temp HP back is a smart synergy that is close to doubling its effective "healing". However I fear the Sorc's D6 Hit Dice + MOD and the amount of Hit Dice available is not really going to last a full adventuring day.
As such I would strongly suggest something else or at least some tweaks to make it function better to prevent damage (and concentration breaks). Looking to the Abjurer's Arcane Ward as a concept could perhaps function toward that end.
I would also strongly suggest not to implement a "no-armor" rule, as that also F's over magical items like the Elven Chain that any other Sorc/Wiz/Warl might pick up to boost their AC. As for multiclassing to pick up Medium/Heavy Armor Training; sure it skews things when the subclass also can provide a bonus to AC and spell casting provides even more. However this is already an option for all other subclasses AND it does require a stat investment. DEX for Medium and STR for Heavy. The -10 Speed for not fulfilling the STR req. on Heavy might be offset with spellcasting but then again that's a cost.
An EK-Fighter also gets to wield Heavy Armor, have a ton of Extra Attacks and can cast Shield and Absorb Elements. They can concentrate on Blade Ward/Blur/Haste to add more to their defenses. If you play with backwards compatible content and your DM is more laissez faire there's also Silvery Barbs. The EK just falls a bit short of slinging spells around due to spell slot progression and spellcasting modifier not being great due to MAD between STR/DEX for attacks, CON for survival/Concentration and then INT to boost your very late utility spells. You're often better of only using spells that don't have a barrier for success (AC/DC).
Lvl 6 Swift Blade
A lvl 6 Sorc would have lvl 3 spell slots, for a Flame Blade of 4d6. 1.5x the dice is 6d6 plus 2x MOD (4) is ~ 29 avg. dmg. The Two-Hander GWM Fighter at lvl 5 would be dealing 4d6 + 2x MOD (4) + 2x Prof. Bonus (3) ~ 28 avg. damage.
A lvl 11 Sorc would have lvl 6 spell slots, for a Flame Blade of 7d6. 1.5x the dice (rounded down) is 10d6 plus 2x MOD (5) ~ 45 avg. dmg. The Fighter is looking at 6d6 + 3x MOD (5) + 3x Prof. Bonus (4) ~ 48 avg. dmg.
I'll say that seems a little too good for the Sorc - even if it does require the use of their highest level spell slot (or 3 Sorc Points). And this is not even considering that the Sorc could use a BA to Quicken a TS/BB/GFB weapon attack.
Perhaps this could just be a: "Pay 1 Sorc Point, make a melee weapon attack as a Bonus Action."
Considering the modified lvl 3 feature would count Flame Blade as a Longsword on its own, it has its own damage calculation as a weapon attack and uses CHA. You could also use Metamagic to pay 2 and cast a Sword-cantrip (TS, BB, GFB) for the cantrip upgrade damage instead, but it would burn your Sorc Points faster.
This construction of the features: Utilizing weapons as a medium, using CHA for weapon attacks, having the Flame Blade's "bonus" damage apply on hitting with the Flame Blade (weapon) but only as a once on your turn, secures a bit against bad attack roll luck and feels more cohesive for a warrior-caster hybrid. It also means you can cast a 1st+ level spell and still get the Flame Blade damage.
It is bastardizing the Flame Blade spell a bit, to the point where it might be cleaner to just make the Arcane Blade feature provide the damage boost itself in exchange for spending a lvl 2+ spell slot / 2+ Sorc Points.
Lvl 14 Arcane Shield
It is late to provide conditional, temporary, additional AC to a class that is likely running around with Mage Armor's 13 + DEX (2-3). The jump between lvl 6 to lvl 14 for subclass features is also... a long while where the subclass doesn't grant you anything additional. Especially for a subclass that attempts to significantly alter your play pattern. Perhaps this is the true reason why Sorc hasn't gotten a gish subclass.
The spell slot recovery is mostly a feel-better about not using lvl 2-3 spell slots to cast Shield, but in all likelihood you're not spending your spell slots all that much if you're flaming on with Flame Blade chomping on your Magic Action. With the modified features (where Flame Blade's damage can be applied to any singular weapon hit and cheaper BA-weapon attack) this definitely gets a lot more use as you can more easily spend your BA to attack and get the damage boost and then your Magic Action to cast damage/control/utility spells.
(And just to anchor this benefit, the main difference between what you can currently do on existing Sorc subclasses and the suggested modified features of this subclass is paying 1 Sorc Point to the lvl 6 feature instead of 2 on Quickened Spell. Secondary is the use of magical weapons with Flame Blade's attack and more flexibility.)
The added flexibility to Fire Shield is nice, but elemental damage resistances can be a bit wonky to rely on unless your enemies are firmly affiliated with one damage type. The difference between paying 2 Sorc Points for Quickened Spell (and obviously the need for that Metamagic) and 1 Sorc Points to make a BA de facto Flame Blade attack is not big, but I think it might be big enough to not want to use it unless a majority of your adversaries use that elemental damage type.
In other words; I don't know what I would expect to need at this level, but I feel like this might not be it.
Lvl 18 Arcane Blade Master
Not much to say.
If following the modified features above, you already expect to use your BA to make a weapon attack (possibly boosted by Arcane Blade). So perhaps this feature would instead just remove the "Once on your turn" limit for Arcane Blade's damage boost - meaning a 9th lvl Flame Blade deals 2x (10d6 + MOD [5] + weapon bonus [3] ) ~ 86 avg. dmg. In comparison the Two-Hander GWM Fighter deals 4x (2d6 + MOD [5] + Prof. Bonus [6] + weapon bonus [3] ) ~ 84 avg. dmg.
So if instead of casting Wish, you cast a 9th level Flame Blade, you get the same average damage as the Fighter (minus subclass benefits and very vanilla magic items) - for 1/10 minutes. Although with better damage types.
I don't find that troublesome when it is 6th+ level spell slots that are only one of per Long Rest.
And instead of trading Spell Slots for additional damage, I would probably grant another benefit.
Kinda similar to the lvl 14 subclass feature; don't know what I would need.
Anyway, that's my thoughts following a couple of hours brainstorming. Maybe a later revisit will result in more creative suggestions from myself or from others.