First read through looks pretty good, I am glad the long watch is over. Hopefully now we can iterate properly and move to improved core features.
Firstly the added infusions are pretty good, I like the shield and crossbow is fine if a little like a tax, that happened to bladelock which I am okay with in the end.
The Archevist takes the role of the remote spellcaster which has been suggested throughout the thread, which is interesting. The way I read is 2 Skills, Remote Casting, and free Super cantrip. A pretty good concept overall, the only issue I have is with the movement of the Artificial Mind, although I think you can blink it out and in to existence unlimited number of times. 6th level are kind of generic, and 14th level is kind of weirdly named, why lean so much into Information... But lastly Mind Overload probably pushes the Cantrip into super OP territory, On Int Save it is almost guaranteed Stunning, probably should just be changed to Attack roll with Int followed by Advantage to Weapon attacks. Overall I like more than the Alchemist at first glance.
Next the Battle Smith, and this comes out the fence swinging with the game changer that is Battle Ready. Int Weapon attacks on a 3rd level must open some fun new multiclass build ideas(bladesinger), but I am still very happy this now exists as a potential build type. The strength of this feature I think holds up the less than stellar Iron Defender when comparing purely to Artillerist offensive capability, however this is very good on defence giving disadvantage on an incoming hit if positioned right, but I would rarely see myself using this BA. For this subclass 6-14 actually do bring quite some changes giving a heal option and further damage on RA which is rare in 5e. I do like the subclass although again I think it would probably be better if the Iron Defender would just be rolled into an Armor that you build, and perhaps I would ask my DM to allow that anyway in exchange for not having independent RAs. Quite equal between Artillerist and Battle Smith, since the Iron Defender survives for longer than turret I suppose I like it more.
I do think these are a nice set of Subclasses overall to launch with, not covering everything leaving some space for future books to add more. Still will suggest the changes I originally had for Alchemist and Artillerist just to make them better to play overall. (Ray of Enfeeblement & Contagion alongside Restoration spells for the Mad/Evil Alchemists instead of the Panacea ones, and Physical Ranged Weapons instead of Wands focus for Artillerist maybe pulling from Battlesmith’s Jolt now instead of adding to Cantrips as it feels way more appropriate and symmetrical, and salvage turret if not destroyed to resuming on BAs similar to Spiritual Weapon)
Once the EBerron setting gets a hardcover release, yes apparently.
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Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired) Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
I just had the startling realisation that Archivist is like an Iron Man concept with Jarvis/Friday! By golly, I love my Alchemist I've been playing for two years now, but geeeeeez I wish I could convert! haha
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired) Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
Huh, looks like WotC DID bring me a birthday gift after all, lol!
In seriousness, I do like the additions. They may need a little tweaking, but overall I think the new subclasses make sense and I really like the Repeating Shot and the Repulsion Shield infusions. One thing I am curious about though: it seems that a number of damaging spells are finding their way into the core spell list. Anyone's thoughts on that?
Any timetable on when the new subclasses/spells will be added to dndbeyond? Its fortuitous timing for the release but Id prefer to be using the site where I can
Any timetable on when the new subclasses/spells will be added to dndbeyond? Its fortuitous timing for the release but Id prefer to be using the site where I can
Probably just a few days. They already did the lion's share of the work when they made the class.
@irrelevant_ibis Well they said the explicitly didn't include non-PHB spells in the initial pass, so that didn't surprise me. I'm glad they include both Pyrotechnics from Elemental Evil Player's Companion and Tiny Servant from Xanathar's.
I now have a myriad of new character concepts such as
A runepriest-like Archivist-- the calligrapher's tools and general flavor really work, focus especially on Plant Artificial Minds
A programmer Archivist? What with the whole "data banks" theme of the Archivist, I think this could be really good if well executed
I saw a post in this thread earlier talking about a fortune teller-like Alchemist/Arcane Trickster multiclass and I feel like that would be fun-- don't take any levels in actual psychic classes (GOO Warlock, Mystic, Whispers Bard), just be someone who's really good at making it seem like they know the mystic arts and can read into you and make somewhat accurate fortunes, but the biggest trick is just so. many. special. effects. (definitely take pyrotechnics
Wannabe Paladin/Techno-Knight Battle Smith, ride your Iron Defender and make it look like a horse
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i like linguistics and, well, d&d, obviously. this bio hadn't been updated for 3 years so i figured i'd do that.
I have a male Gnome Artificer that I am gonna play as a battle smith when he hits third level will make the pet a catlike mount for combat and riding as the medium size of the pet will carry a gnome as they are small.
@Jacqsynn, I have a level 3 Kobold Battle Smith that has a mechanical Drake that he created a saddle and "horse armor" for that is enchanted with the Enhanced Armor infusion. Combined with my Kobold's Pact Tactics, I'm actually quite formidable in combat side-by-side with my Iron Defender (I named him Tibur Usk, which is Draconic for "Born of Iron")
So, looking at the new subclasses, there's a couple things that cross my mind:
1. I'd like to see one or two more spells on the Archivist that deal psychic damage; looking at the spells, I realize there aren't that many, but I'd like it if they could fit one or two 2nd/5th level spells into their list.
2. The healing function of Arcane Jolt for the Battle Smith seems a little weird; maybe make it so you don't need to attack in order to use it?
Honestly i think it would have made more sense for the iron defender to be a more humanoid shape with way more iron golem of pure defensive capabilities to really fill that whole "Iron Defender" feel , like Taryon Darington and Dotty, or... ROCKET AND GROOT. think about it, gnome riding a big as robot with his rapid fire crossbow firing and the robot throwing rocks and boulders or using his big crossbow. come on, when you thought iron defender you thought big robot and brave artificer saving soldiers whilst looking on to a battle field to see who needs help next, a truly courageous soul!
Or as Arutha said an armour you can Don a advanced armour, and be the tank of the group. I dunno, i like the idea but i also REALLY dig the concept of the iron defender and the artificer who's only lookin to make the world a better place. I do however dig the idea of letting my players (or me) have a personally made suit of armour that i don with my robot OR, the robot also doubles AS the armour which you can activate as a bonus action. That keeps the idea of the "IRON DEFENDER" whilst also adding a certain connection between The battle smith and the iron defender.
another change i wish they made was with the extra attuning slots, if i were Jeremy Crawford i would make it like Brutal Critical, this works that you get it around level 9 (a good time to get an ability like that) and you get an extra one around level 13/15 and the final one at level 20, but also fills up some of those empty spaces that make the level up chart look kinda dull. I also think that spell storing should be updated to 3rd or if we want real power 4th level spells because the ability kinda feels a tinsy bit week to me
I agree about the extra attunement, that was a feature they should have kept from the first iteration and I hope they reconsider. I believe I've mentioned before that in my opinion, Spell Storing Item is broken as it presently is and should have fewer uses per item, and at higher levels allow more items that can each have a different spell stored (for instance, it would start at 1 item with 3 uses with the ability to store 1st level spells, then gradually increase to 2 items that can store 2nd level spells, then 3 items that can store 3rd level spells, though the number of charges for higher level spells would need to be lowered in order to stay balanced probably.)
I can see what you mean about the iron defender; personally, I'm fine with it as is, but wouldn't mind seeing a couple changes or two to it (and as a DM I'd totally allow changing it to a bipedal form with any appropriate changes to damage type). As far as having an advanced armor, I feel like that could be the makings of a subclass all on its own!
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I messaged Jeremy on twitter and he said should be 3 in the ability and the pdf should be soon getting updated with the correction.
Loex - A Lizardfolk Lvl 4/6/4 Hexblade Profane Blood Hunter/ Battlesmith Artificer/ Cleric of the Forge
Arborea - A Warforged Lvl 1 Hexblade Warlock
DM - "Malign Intelligence"
For reference:
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1128393601795248128
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Loving the Repeating Shot infusion, exactly what was needed to not necessarily force artificers into needing the Crossbow Expert feat.
First read through looks pretty good, I am glad the long watch is over. Hopefully now we can iterate properly and move to improved core features.
Firstly the added infusions are pretty good, I like the shield and crossbow is fine if a little like a tax, that happened to bladelock which I am okay with in the end.
The Archevist takes the role of the remote spellcaster which has been suggested throughout the thread, which is interesting. The way I read is 2 Skills, Remote Casting, and free Super cantrip. A pretty good concept overall, the only issue I have is with the movement of the Artificial Mind, although I think you can blink it out and in to existence unlimited number of times. 6th level are kind of generic, and 14th level is kind of weirdly named, why lean so much into Information... But lastly Mind Overload probably pushes the Cantrip into super OP territory, On Int Save it is almost guaranteed Stunning, probably should just be changed to Attack roll with Int followed by Advantage to Weapon attacks. Overall I like more than the Alchemist at first glance.
Next the Battle Smith, and this comes out the fence swinging with the game changer that is Battle Ready. Int Weapon attacks on a 3rd level must open some fun new multiclass build ideas(bladesinger), but I am still very happy this now exists as a potential build type. The strength of this feature I think holds up the less than stellar Iron Defender when comparing purely to Artillerist offensive capability, however this is very good on defence giving disadvantage on an incoming hit if positioned right, but I would rarely see myself using this BA. For this subclass 6-14 actually do bring quite some changes giving a heal option and further damage on RA which is rare in 5e. I do like the subclass although again I think it would probably be better if the Iron Defender would just be rolled into an Armor that you build, and perhaps I would ask my DM to allow that anyway in exchange for not having independent RAs. Quite equal between Artillerist and Battle Smith, since the Iron Defender survives for longer than turret I suppose I like it more.
I do think these are a nice set of Subclasses overall to launch with, not covering everything leaving some space for future books to add more. Still will suggest the changes I originally had for Alchemist and Artillerist just to make them better to play overall. (Ray of Enfeeblement & Contagion alongside Restoration spells for the Mad/Evil Alchemists instead of the Panacea ones, and Physical Ranged Weapons instead of Wands focus for Artillerist maybe pulling from Battlesmith’s Jolt now instead of adding to Cantrips as it feels way more appropriate and symmetrical, and salvage turret if not destroyed to resuming on BAs similar to Spiritual Weapon)
WILL THE ARTIFICER BE OFFICIAL
I like 2 play spellcasters that can learn misty step.Also I like to play halflings,elves,dragonborn,warforged,teiflingfs, and half elf
Characters I play: Adron Nightbreeze
Help us Fight the godmodder! We need all the help we can get!
https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/user/Orcalord (use link to get to homebrewery)
Once the EBerron setting gets a hardcover release, yes apparently.
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired)
Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer
Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden
DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
kay
I like 2 play spellcasters that can learn misty step.Also I like to play halflings,elves,dragonborn,warforged,teiflingfs, and half elf
Characters I play: Adron Nightbreeze
Help us Fight the godmodder! We need all the help we can get!
https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/user/Orcalord (use link to get to homebrewery)
I just had the startling realisation that Archivist is like an Iron Man concept with Jarvis/Friday! By golly, I love my Alchemist I've been playing for two years now, but geeeeeez I wish I could convert! haha
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired)
Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer
Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden
DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
Huh, looks like WotC DID bring me a birthday gift after all, lol!
In seriousness, I do like the additions. They may need a little tweaking, but overall I think the new subclasses make sense and I really like the Repeating Shot and the Repulsion Shield infusions. One thing I am curious about though: it seems that a number of damaging spells are finding their way into the core spell list. Anyone's thoughts on that?
Any timetable on when the new subclasses/spells will be added to dndbeyond? Its fortuitous timing for the release but Id prefer to be using the site where I can
ok i was upset that they didn't have pyrotechnics because that's one of the most Artificer spells ever and now they have it! yayyy!!
i like linguistics and, well, d&d, obviously. this bio hadn't been updated for 3 years so i figured i'd do that.
Probably just a few days. They already did the lion's share of the work when they made the class.
@irrelevant_ibis Well they said the explicitly didn't include non-PHB spells in the initial pass, so that didn't surprise me. I'm glad they include both Pyrotechnics from Elemental Evil Player's Companion and Tiny Servant from Xanathar's.
Yes the added spells really fit the class.
I now have a myriad of new character concepts such as
i like linguistics and, well, d&d, obviously. this bio hadn't been updated for 3 years so i figured i'd do that.
I have a male Gnome Artificer that I am gonna play as a battle smith when he hits third level will make the pet a catlike mount for combat and riding as the medium size of the pet will carry a gnome as they are small.
@Jacqsynn, I have a level 3 Kobold Battle Smith that has a mechanical Drake that he created a saddle and "horse armor" for that is enchanted with the Enhanced Armor infusion. Combined with my Kobold's Pact Tactics, I'm actually quite formidable in combat side-by-side with my Iron Defender (I named him Tibur Usk, which is Draconic for "Born of Iron")
So, looking at the new subclasses, there's a couple things that cross my mind:
1. I'd like to see one or two more spells on the Archivist that deal psychic damage; looking at the spells, I realize there aren't that many, but I'd like it if they could fit one or two 2nd/5th level spells into their list.
2. The healing function of Arcane Jolt for the Battle Smith seems a little weird; maybe make it so you don't need to attack in order to use it?
Honestly i think it would have made more sense for the iron defender to be a more humanoid shape with way more iron golem of pure defensive capabilities to really fill that whole "Iron Defender" feel , like Taryon Darington and Dotty, or... ROCKET AND GROOT. think about it, gnome riding a big as robot with his rapid fire crossbow firing and the robot throwing rocks and boulders or using his big crossbow. come on, when you thought iron defender you thought big robot and brave artificer saving soldiers whilst looking on to a battle field to see who needs help next, a truly courageous soul!
Or as Arutha said an armour you can Don a advanced armour, and be the tank of the group. I dunno, i like the idea but i also REALLY dig the concept of the iron defender and the artificer who's only lookin to make the world a better place. I do however dig the idea of letting my players (or me) have a personally made suit of armour that i don with my robot OR, the robot also doubles AS the armour which you can activate as a bonus action. That keeps the idea of the "IRON DEFENDER" whilst also adding a certain connection between The battle smith and the iron defender.
another change i wish they made was with the extra attuning slots, if i were Jeremy Crawford i would make it like Brutal Critical, this works that you get it around level 9 (a good time to get an ability like that) and you get an extra one around level 13/15 and the final one at level 20, but also fills up some of those empty spaces that make the level up chart look kinda dull. I also think that spell storing should be updated to 3rd or if we want real power 4th level spells because the ability kinda feels a tinsy bit week to me
@Technovamp
I agree about the extra attunement, that was a feature they should have kept from the first iteration and I hope they reconsider. I believe I've mentioned before that in my opinion, Spell Storing Item is broken as it presently is and should have fewer uses per item, and at higher levels allow more items that can each have a different spell stored (for instance, it would start at 1 item with 3 uses with the ability to store 1st level spells, then gradually increase to 2 items that can store 2nd level spells, then 3 items that can store 3rd level spells, though the number of charges for higher level spells would need to be lowered in order to stay balanced probably.)
I can see what you mean about the iron defender; personally, I'm fine with it as is, but wouldn't mind seeing a couple changes or two to it (and as a DM I'd totally allow changing it to a bipedal form with any appropriate changes to damage type). As far as having an advanced armor, I feel like that could be the makings of a subclass all on its own!