(as a side tip, never ever ever ever compare anything to hexblade, that is notoriously overpowered as hell)
The Hexblade is not overpowered. If it was, WotC would NEVER have let it out of UA. The proof is everthing else they nerfed from UA . . . :P
I mean that would assume the WotC are omniscient. EG the over nerf of Alchemist is proof they don’t have a 100% perfect track record.
In Hexblade I do believe they made a mistake or posted a class that they allow to be for the power gamer or due to their strange balance mechanics where they assume 8+ combats per day which is just not how the average group ended up playing.
But as long as that remains the highbar rather than the target bar then it is okay. Hexblade does 4*(d10+d6+5+6)=80 damage per turn with two BA ramp (66 first turn) and gets all of those toys at level 2. A standard fighter does 4*(2d6+5)=48 damage per turn with no ramp. While a Artillerist does 4d10+d8+6d8=53.5 damage per turn (not really counting the MA set up turn as turrets last an hour so likely will be ready unless surprised). This falls nicely in the good target of 50 damage per turn.
except that with multiclassing every single class goes beyond your 80 damage and some actually beats the hexblade in damage. when it comes to theorycrafting anything is possible and when it comes to multiclassing, it is always the better option. saying hexblade is the OP class is bullshit and a moot point. as paladin divine smithing can literally dish out over 100 damage at higher levels. which the hexblade cannot even if he goes smite as well. mostly because the smites of the hexblade are limited to 3 or 4 at max level while the paladin can smite for quite a while before lacking spell slots. while the hexblade has a bit more power from hexblade curse, the rest of its abilities doesn't add up. and its not like the paladin cannot take barbarian levels and fighters level to get the crit zone indefinitely and the advantage on attacks and the damage boost. while your hexblade can only do it once and after need a rest.i figured that at higher levels, the hexblade is losing a lot of its powers to other classes.
exemple... Hexblade warlock level 20, maxed stats for sake of maxing... can smite 4 times thanks to 4 level 5 spell slots. thus adding 5d8 to his attacks per spell slot use. can multi attack thus can do it twice per round. dual wielding he can do it 3 times in one round, but will be left smiting only once the next round. his hex blade curse adds a punch by enabling crits from 19-20. gets 6 more points of damage tagged along per attacks. can only use that curse once per short rest making it not viable in minions fighting. basically targets only one creature and is mostly only used on boss fights in a 1 on 1 matter. at level 14, you get the ability to switch target. this ability comes way too high on the list as the ranger can switch hunters mark and the same with hex can be changed. basically you get an improoved version of hex which is a first level spell, but you get it at level 14 instead at which point, is a moot ppoint as the ability has lost many of its grandeur. his specter can dish out damage, sure. but while it last, it is also easy to defeat as a specter at higher level is nothing to really count in a combat. its a minion that gets dealt with easily and thus the prowess of specter is not so much at higher levels. its an ability that loses a lot as the levels goes in. thats not including that if you do a long rest before a major fight, you lose your ally right fromt he get go.
let's compare a paladin multiclassed as a fighter champion and a barbarian 2. the paladin can swing a great sword two times in a fight. level 15 is a great cut of point for it as it gains a feature at that level. it can divine smite a lot at that point, forgoetting level 5 spells. but still has tons of other spell slots to pump into divine smite. barbarian lets him rage. adding 2 points of damage to every attacks. protecting him as well. at level 2 he gains adavantage on all attacks. being a paladin he can reroll the 1s and the 2s of his great sword. he's in full plate, which the hex blade isn't... thanks to fighter 1, he can also have another fighter style as long as it is not the same one. so now he can gain +1 armor or dual wield instead and gain a third attack. whatever suits his play style. fighter gives him action surge, once per short rest. and an healing ability. fighter 3 gets him champion which allows him to crit (all the time) from 19-20. coupled with advantage on each attacks, this becomes a major crit machine.
in the end if we multiclass a warlock, we lost more and more of his powers great cutoff his 14 level. 6 levels of say fighter and barbarians much like the paladin, would just replace the 14 level, which becomes useless. granted because of hex you dont want the barbarian levels because you'd lose hex entirely if you rage. you want that to hit harder. but in the end... your hexblade curse which is where you get most of your damage. is only a single target and a single use item. your hex is much better as it last for 8 hours. so basically your hexblade curse is not the bomb you think it is because it loses most of its power to the simple fact you are almost never gonna use it. not until you reach 14 level. most adventures are going from level 1 to 15 and ends there. so basically... your hexblade curse won't even be the bomb. except for the final boss fight of the campaign. in theorycrafting, the hexblade is not the OP class you think it is, other classes like rogues and paladins gets much higher dps at higher levels. and that dps is betterly sustained. and multiclasing just changes everything drastically. if it ws me, i'd say damage wise, nothing beats off a paladin or a rogue. they are literally first in my list. i'll admit that since hexblade and smiting came to warlock, he's got a boost up to 3rd place. second place would be a warlock eldritch nuke multiclased as a sorcery and fighter... 12 attacks in one round is a hell of a lot of damage to be doing.
For the changes... one has to wonder why you get a pdf of eberron rise in march ?!! in march, which is almost 6 months before the printing of the official book, means you have a very very very drafty book. it probably changed like 5 times ever since. i wouldn't take too much pride in having such a pdf.
DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron first came out back in February or March. I don't remember exactly when, only that I bought it through DMsGuild on DriveThruRPG back in March. But it didn't get finalized until Rising from the Last War got published.
Agree 100% with you DnDPaladin, but I was trying to bring examples of care when balancing a single class/subclass. And by pointing out how many levels need to be taken I was also accounting for the multiclassing strength of the class. My point still stands if it is a balanced damage class I’d expect around 50 DPT sustainable for at least 10 rounds because Fighter is around 48 without feats or MCs, and iirc a 20th level spellcaster averages 55 DPT using up its progressively decreasing best spellslots.
This is what even one level of Hexlade can do in a muliclass environment. A dip of 1 single level of Hexblade . . .
never said the warlock wsn'T a powerful class with a single dip in levels... heck my fighter 4/sorcerer 14 / warlock 2 can do 12 eldritch blast for the first round and 4 rounds of 8 eldritch blast. for a grand total of... 12d10+60 and thats just the first round of combat... afterward it becomes 8d10+40 and thats not even counting anything aside action surge and metamgics on the eldritch blast with invocations. as far as i know, the warlock do not need the hexblade to deal that much damage.
as for your build cockroach... how often do you actually use hexblade curse ? for all i know the only reason he took that level 1 dip, was for the charisma instead of strength. thats a great deal on a paladin, i'll give you that. but the hexblade curse wasn't even the real reason for it.if i was him, i would not have taken the warlock dip, instead going fighter 1. then the two level of wizards which are for more protections are pretty much unnecesary. i know he wanted more spell slots, but in the end it is useless when you can go fighter 3 and take battlemaster which gives you tons of better options for protections as well as for offense. that build could of gone any directions for protections, even sorcerers would of been a good choice instead of warlock. in the end, the only reason he took the warlock was because the hexblade curse allows him to use charisma instead of strength. also, he gets to use hex to pump his damage. which i say has no need for hexblade to be good. then again a simple feat would of saved him the trouble as well. and he would of saved a whole character class level for literally anything else. people underestimate the power of magic initiate... that feat is the bomb !
anyway... i'm derailing this too much, i'll stop there... but hexblade while a great archetype in the warlock building... is not all that strong until way higher levels.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron first came out back in February or March. I don't remember exactly when, only that I bought it through DMsGuild on DriveThruRPG back in March. But it didn't get finalized until Rising from the Last War got published.
oh you talked about that one, but wayfinders guide is the equivalent of the comapnion guide from elemental evil. it is not made to be the official ruling, it is more like a first draft to prepare those who wanted to play in eberron. yes we all thought it was a book that was gonna be continued, but in the end it was not.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron first came out back in February or March. I don't remember exactly when, only that I bought it through DMsGuild on DriveThruRPG back in March. But it didn't get finalized until Rising from the Last War got published.
oh you talked about that one, but wayfinders guide is the equivalent of the comapnion guide from elemental evil. it is not made to be the official ruling, it is more like a first draft to prepare those who wanted to play in eberron. yes we all thought it was a book that was gonna be continued, but in the end it was not.
This is an argument for making the removed subraces non-AL legal (which is fine).
The biggest problem I see is Warforged. They collapsed the entire race into envoy after placing a $1.99 value on each subrace.
Unlike what they did with the dragonmarks that didn't make it into Rising, the two missing Wayfairer's Warforged have simply been removed as functional options.
They put a price tag on something, took money for it, and then revoked it. That's really not how you establish trust with people you want to continue to purchase your products.
If Wayfairer's Guide had been sold as Compendium content only and supplemented with free builder options until Rising was released, we'd have no room to gripe.
And the bit about it being a "living document" would have been a great reason to give us three vetted warforged, not discard the other two.
Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron first came out back in February or March. I don't remember exactly when, only that I bought it through DMsGuild on DriveThruRPG back in March. But it didn't get finalized until Rising from the Last War got published.
oh you talked about that one, but wayfinders guide is the equivalent of the comapnion guide from elemental evil. it is not made to be the official ruling, it is more like a first draft to prepare those who wanted to play in eberron. yes we all thought it was a book that was gonna be continued, but in the end it was not.
This is an argument for making the removed subraces non-AL legal (which is fine).
The biggest problem I see is Warforged. They collapsed the entire race into envoy after placing a $1.99 value on each subrace.
Unlike what they did with the dragonmarks that didn't make it into Rising, the two missing Wayfairer's Warforged have simply been removed as functional options.
They put a price tag on something, took money for it, and then revoked it. That's really not how you establish trust with people you want to continue to purchase your products.
If Wayfairer's Guide had been sold as Compendium content only and supplemented with free builder options until Rising was released, we'd have no room to gripe.
And the bit about it being a "living document" would have been a great reason to give us three vetted warforged, not discard the other two.
except all 3 of those races were completely and insanely breaking the bound accuracy. with a warforged anything was better then anything else. thanks to full plate on say a wizard and it giving you on the spot a magnificent 20 AC which is more then a fighter with full plate (which he still has to buy since he doesn't get it at start) and above all that, his proficiency bonus tackled onto it which boost him for 2. now if he gets a shield as well, that warforged could be AC 22 right from level 1. even the fighter needs to go thru a ton of hoops to get to the fabled 21 AC. the problem of those warforged was the fact that they get all armor types from the get go and can switch between them as they please. as well as having their proficiency added to their armor which was ludicrous.
i agree that tagging a price on it was ridiculous. but i do not agree to leaving very broken races in the builder.
DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron first came out back in February or March. I don't remember exactly when, only that I bought it through DMsGuild on DriveThruRPG back in March. But it didn't get finalized until Rising from the Last War got published.
oh you talked about that one, but wayfinders guide is the equivalent of the comapnion guide from elemental evil. it is not made to be the official ruling, it is more like a first draft to prepare those who wanted to play in eberron. yes we all thought it was a book that was gonna be continued, but in the end it was not.
This is an argument for making the removed subraces non-AL legal (which is fine).
The biggest problem I see is Warforged. They collapsed the entire race into envoy after placing a $1.99 value on each subrace.
Unlike what they did with the dragonmarks that didn't make it into Rising, the two missing Wayfairer's Warforged have simply been removed as functional options.
They put a price tag on something, took money for it, and then revoked it. That's really not how you establish trust with people you want to continue to purchase your products.
If Wayfairer's Guide had been sold as Compendium content only and supplemented with free builder options until Rising was released, we'd have no room to gripe.
And the bit about it being a "living document" would have been a great reason to give us three vetted warforged, not discard the other two.
except all 3 of those races were completely and insanely breaking the bound accuracy. with a warforged anything was better then anything else. thanks to full plate on say a wizard and it giving you on the spot a magnificent 20 AC which is more then a fighter with full plate (which he still has to buy since he doesn't get it at start) and above all that, his proficiency bonus tackled onto it which boost him for 2. now if he gets a shield as well, that warforged could be AC 22 right from level 1. even the fighter needs to go thru a ton of hoops to get to the fabled 21 AC. the problem of those warforged was the fact that they get all armor types from the get go and can switch between them as they please. as well as having their proficiency added to their armor which was ludicrous.
i agree that tagging a price on it was ridiculous. but i do not agree to leaving very broken races in the builder.
I could argue about the mechanics, but those are distraction from the real issue. The "Full plate at lvl 1" problem can be fixed by applying the armor integration feature in the fixed version to the base race while still supporting the discarded subraces. That's all covered by "this material will be adjusted" declaration.
The quantity of content is nearly as important as the quality. You don't fix the warforged by killing the juggernaut and skirmisher. You fix the juggernaut and skirmisher.
Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron first came out back in February or March. I don't remember exactly when, only that I bought it through DMsGuild on DriveThruRPG back in March. But it didn't get finalized until Rising from the Last War got published.
oh you talked about that one, but wayfinders guide is the equivalent of the comapnion guide from elemental evil. it is not made to be the official ruling, it is more like a first draft to prepare those who wanted to play in eberron. yes we all thought it was a book that was gonna be continued, but in the end it was not.
This is an argument for making the removed subraces non-AL legal (which is fine).
The biggest problem I see is Warforged. They collapsed the entire race into envoy after placing a $1.99 value on each subrace.
Unlike what they did with the dragonmarks that didn't make it into Rising, the two missing Wayfairer's Warforged have simply been removed as functional options.
They put a price tag on something, took money for it, and then revoked it. That's really not how you establish trust with people you want to continue to purchase your products.
If Wayfairer's Guide had been sold as Compendium content only and supplemented with free builder options until Rising was released, we'd have no room to gripe.
And the bit about it being a "living document" would have been a great reason to give us three vetted warforged, not discard the other two.
except all 3 of those races were completely and insanely breaking the bound accuracy. with a warforged anything was better then anything else. thanks to full plate on say a wizard and it giving you on the spot a magnificent 20 AC which is more then a fighter with full plate (which he still has to buy since he doesn't get it at start) and above all that, his proficiency bonus tackled onto it which boost him for 2. now if he gets a shield as well, that warforged could be AC 22 right from level 1. even the fighter needs to go thru a ton of hoops to get to the fabled 21 AC. the problem of those warforged was the fact that they get all armor types from the get go and can switch between them as they please. as well as having their proficiency added to their armor which was ludicrous.
i agree that tagging a price on it was ridiculous. but i do not agree to leaving very broken races in the builder.
I could argue about the mechanics, but those are distraction from the real issue. The "Full plate at lvl 1" problem can be fixed by applying the armor integration feature in the fixed version to the base race while still supporting the discarded subraces. That's all covered by "this material will be adjusted" declaration.
The quantity of content is nearly as important as the quality. You don't fix the warforged by killing the juggernaut and skirmisher. You fix the juggernaut and skirmisher.
ok then to you, all races they have done up to this point should of actually been done. even it means they will be identical to the other races. i could argue with you the same way, if they though warforged didn't need subraces, then it didn't need subraces. the fact is, while all warforged were created for different goals in mind, they were all identical ! i think the juggernaught and skirmishers didn't even need to be there. i could create myself a juggernaught by just saying... i'm going full plate. i already agreed that removing paying content after making it paid for was a bad move. but i'm not gonna agree to that skewed vision of yours that every races should have a subrace. actually think many of the subraces we have are just too similar to one another and should of been removed from the get go. the same way in ravnica the lizardfolk didn't made the cut cause they were too identical to the already existing lizardfolk. changing one ability isn't what makes a race ! to your point, i would say then.... go ahead create 25 more human races... after al they say they are diverse with diverse skills and abilities. so why didn't we get those 25 more races.
the fact is, we don't need races that are so identical to each others. warforged were all identical under the hood. they weren't all separate. so skirmishers and juggernaughts were nothing more then just a warforged changing armor type, which the actual race actually does. and i have a player in my group who could proove it to you as he plays a caster bard at first then become a juggernaught. all he did was change his exterior and that was it.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
The game is ruinded by computer gamers who are all about balance. RPG's were NEVER meant to be about balance and that is what ruined 4E and is starting 5E down the same path.
These peeps who want balance should just all play humans r-skiined to look like the various races.
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron first came out back in February or March. I don't remember exactly when, only that I bought it through DMsGuild on DriveThruRPG back in March. But it didn't get finalized until Rising from the Last War got published.
oh you talked about that one, but wayfinders guide is the equivalent of the comapnion guide from elemental evil. it is not made to be the official ruling, it is more like a first draft to prepare those who wanted to play in eberron. yes we all thought it was a book that was gonna be continued, but in the end it was not.
This is an argument for making the removed subraces non-AL legal (which is fine).
The biggest problem I see is Warforged. They collapsed the entire race into envoy after placing a $1.99 value on each subrace.
Unlike what they did with the dragonmarks that didn't make it into Rising, the two missing Wayfairer's Warforged have simply been removed as functional options.
They put a price tag on something, took money for it, and then revoked it. That's really not how you establish trust with people you want to continue to purchase your products.
If Wayfairer's Guide had been sold as Compendium content only and supplemented with free builder options until Rising was released, we'd have no room to gripe.
And the bit about it being a "living document" would have been a great reason to give us three vetted warforged, not discard the other two.
except all 3 of those races were completely and insanely breaking the bound accuracy. with a warforged anything was better then anything else. thanks to full plate on say a wizard and it giving you on the spot a magnificent 20 AC which is more then a fighter with full plate (which he still has to buy since he doesn't get it at start) and above all that, his proficiency bonus tackled onto it which boost him for 2. now if he gets a shield as well, that warforged could be AC 22 right from level 1. even the fighter needs to go thru a ton of hoops to get to the fabled 21 AC. the problem of those warforged was the fact that they get all armor types from the get go and can switch between them as they please. as well as having their proficiency added to their armor which was ludicrous.
i agree that tagging a price on it was ridiculous. but i do not agree to leaving very broken races in the builder.
I could argue about the mechanics, but those are distraction from the real issue. The "Full plate at lvl 1" problem can be fixed by applying the armor integration feature in the fixed version to the base race while still supporting the discarded subraces. That's all covered by "this material will be adjusted" declaration.
The quantity of content is nearly as important as the quality. You don't fix the warforged by killing the juggernaut and skirmisher. You fix the juggernaut and skirmisher.
ok then to you, all races they have done up to this point should of actually been done. even it means they will be identical to the other races. i could argue with you the same way, if they though warforged didn't need subraces, then it didn't need subraces. the fact is, while all warforged were created for different goals in mind, they were all identical ! i think the juggernaught and skirmishers didn't even need to be there. i could create myself a juggernaught by just saying... i'm going full plate. i already agreed that removing paying content after making it paid for was a bad move. but i'm not gonna agree to that skewed vision of yours that every races should have a subrace. actually think many of the subraces we have are just too similar to one another and should of been removed from the get go. the same way in ravnica the lizardfolk didn't made the cut cause they were too identical to the already existing lizardfolk. changing one ability isn't what makes a race ! to your point, i would say then.... go ahead create 25 more human races... after al they say they are diverse with diverse skills and abilities. so why didn't we get those 25 more races.
the fact is, we don't need races that are so identical to each others. warforged were all identical under the hood. they weren't all separate. so skirmishers and juggernaughts were nothing more then just a warforged changing armor type, which the actual race actually does. and i have a player in my group who could proove it to you as he plays a caster bard at first then become a juggernaught. all he did was change his exterior and that was it.
You keep trying to bring this back to your preferences and how you would have liked to see the mechanics from the start.
But this isn't insulting because of how a race was built or whether you personally liked it. This isn't Wizards deciding whether or not to include a race I a new supplement.
If this was a race of sentient dentures who had a fly speed and 1d3 natural weapon attack that got pulled, it would be just as insulting.
If I sell you a sandwich, show you the sandwich, and then throw it away, you're probably not going to come back to my deli.
Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron first came out back in February or March. I don't remember exactly when, only that I bought it through DMsGuild on DriveThruRPG back in March. But it didn't get finalized until Rising from the Last War got published.
oh you talked about that one, but wayfinders guide is the equivalent of the comapnion guide from elemental evil. it is not made to be the official ruling, it is more like a first draft to prepare those who wanted to play in eberron. yes we all thought it was a book that was gonna be continued, but in the end it was not.
This is an argument for making the removed subraces non-AL legal (which is fine).
The biggest problem I see is Warforged. They collapsed the entire race into envoy after placing a $1.99 value on each subrace.
Unlike what they did with the dragonmarks that didn't make it into Rising, the two missing Wayfairer's Warforged have simply been removed as functional options.
They put a price tag on something, took money for it, and then revoked it. That's really not how you establish trust with people you want to continue to purchase your products.
If Wayfairer's Guide had been sold as Compendium content only and supplemented with free builder options until Rising was released, we'd have no room to gripe.
And the bit about it being a "living document" would have been a great reason to give us three vetted warforged, not discard the other two.
except all 3 of those races were completely and insanely breaking the bound accuracy. with a warforged anything was better then anything else. thanks to full plate on say a wizard and it giving you on the spot a magnificent 20 AC which is more then a fighter with full plate (which he still has to buy since he doesn't get it at start) and above all that, his proficiency bonus tackled onto it which boost him for 2. now if he gets a shield as well, that warforged could be AC 22 right from level 1. even the fighter needs to go thru a ton of hoops to get to the fabled 21 AC. the problem of those warforged was the fact that they get all armor types from the get go and can switch between them as they please. as well as having their proficiency added to their armor which was ludicrous.
i agree that tagging a price on it was ridiculous. but i do not agree to leaving very broken races in the builder.
I could argue about the mechanics, but those are distraction from the real issue. The "Full plate at lvl 1" problem can be fixed by applying the armor integration feature in the fixed version to the base race while still supporting the discarded subraces. That's all covered by "this material will be adjusted" declaration.
The quantity of content is nearly as important as the quality. You don't fix the warforged by killing the juggernaut and skirmisher. You fix the juggernaut and skirmisher.
ok then to you, all races they have done up to this point should of actually been done. even it means they will be identical to the other races. i could argue with you the same way, if they though warforged didn't need subraces, then it didn't need subraces. the fact is, while all warforged were created for different goals in mind, they were all identical ! i think the juggernaught and skirmishers didn't even need to be there. i could create myself a juggernaught by just saying... i'm going full plate. i already agreed that removing paying content after making it paid for was a bad move. but i'm not gonna agree to that skewed vision of yours that every races should have a subrace. actually think many of the subraces we have are just too similar to one another and should of been removed from the get go. the same way in ravnica the lizardfolk didn't made the cut cause they were too identical to the already existing lizardfolk. changing one ability isn't what makes a race ! to your point, i would say then.... go ahead create 25 more human races... after al they say they are diverse with diverse skills and abilities. so why didn't we get those 25 more races.
the fact is, we don't need races that are so identical to each others. warforged were all identical under the hood. they weren't all separate. so skirmishers and juggernaughts were nothing more then just a warforged changing armor type, which the actual race actually does. and i have a player in my group who could proove it to you as he plays a caster bard at first then become a juggernaught. all he did was change his exterior and that was it.
You keep trying to bring this back to your preferences and how you would have liked to see the mechanics from the start.
But this isn't insulting because of how a race was built or whether you personally liked it. This isn't Wizards deciding whether or not to include a race I a new supplement.
If this was a race of sentient dentures who had a fly speed and 1d3 natural weapon attack that got pulled, it would be just as insulting.
If I sell you a sandwich, show you the sandwich, and then throw it away, you're probably not going to come back to my deli.
I strongly agree that any content we’ve paid for should still be available (in UA form, and marked as such)
And you keep trying to bring me to your views of "i wanted my very OP race to stick around when they clearly said it might not". you seem to think i'm not on your side when it comes to payment and you seem to just ignore that comment entirely just to pick on a thing i'm saying is normal to be. yet because "you" don't like the idea of losing your favorite OP race. you want everyone to keep it.
for the record, since the beginning... i've been saying the same as you... the idea of pulling something we have paid for, is not great. but i have to admit... the policy of dndbeyond is clear on the fact that everything you buy here might not stick around infinitely. so before you bought it, you knew you might lose things. now when that happens, you cry that you didn't know ? i bought the wayfarer as well, did i make great use of it while it lasted, "ABSOLUTELY !" i've been using it since day one, so was it worth buying. sure it did. and at 20$ it was a steal !
now was that a great move from WotC, again, not at all... but what can you do about it ? they wont change their mind even if we are 100,000 thousands asking for it. now deal with that relaity, everything you buy here might not stick around. that was not just in WotC policy, it is also in beyond policy that you accepted when you created an account. if the book had been up for say a week and then changed, heck even a month... i'd have been pissed off too. but 8 months later... that argument of yours has lost much of its power. for that payment of yours has been more then paid back for.
now i'm gonna stop replying, not because i want the last word, i know you'll reply and im fine letting you have that last word... but because we're not making any progress on this and it is ridiculous to continu this.
back to the artificer, i really love how they done it. can't wait to see the next archetypes that goes along with it.
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Still not sure about the spell storing feature. Can I use a 1st level spell cast as 2nd (cure wounds)? RAW doesnt seem so but RAI should. And when you cast a spell higher it becomes that level. Any Idea?
A hexblade, yes, does less damage than a paladin at high levels, but comparing the two is a bit wrong. Hexblade has damage output SLIGHTLY below a paladin with eldritch smite (which isn't subclass specific), but at level ONE they get a hugely frontloaded feature that makes them better at fighting than a fighter for a time, recharging on a short rest. The thing is, hexblade on its own is not overpowered, but it is somewhat overpowered as a multiclass option, especially for the paladin, sorcerer, or bard. In any case, nothing should be compared to hexblade, that is not a bar to aim at.
And quite honestly, the warforged now is FINE. They did not "butcher" it, they did not "ruin" it, they made it actually functional in the rules of 5e while removing vestigal subclasses.
The game is ruinded by computer gamers who are all about balance. RPG's were NEVER meant to be about balance and that is what ruined 4E and is starting 5E down the same path.
These peeps who want balance should just all play humans r-skiined to look like the various races.
The problem in your perspective. Is that you consider that everyone are the same and only want RP. But there are those who likes to be heroics. And heroism cannot happen if you are just a commoner. Looking at someone being untouchable while you get hit by a fart. Is making you look unheroic and stupid. This is why people use point buy instead. To make sure randomness doesnt make you too weak compared to others...
May it be in any type of games. Going over the balancing issue makes the thing unplayable. Look at rangers for exemples. They are considered the worst class in 5e mainly because it has features that are way too situationnal.
Had they given him abilities that do stuff and then gets boosted by said abilities. Then people wouldnt have cryed. That said rangers are still fun to play.
But like in 3e... Why would you play anything else then wizards if they can do everything the others do but way better. As a level 6 wizard i was still carrying a group of level 12 players. Once the balance goes out of controls the game feels much less fun because there are always subpar characters who seem to do nothing in the group.
I can do role play fine. But i refuse to be playing a shitty character that a dm needs to pet to stay alive. Its much more satisfying to know i survived because of my wits then because the dm fudged his rolls.
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A hexblade, yes, does less damage than a paladin at high levels, but comparing the two is a bit wrong. Hexblade has damage output SLIGHTLY below a paladin with eldritch smite (which isn't subclass specific), but at level ONE they get a hugely frontloaded feature that makes them better at fighting than a fighter for a time, recharging on a short rest. The thing is, hexblade on its own is not overpowered, but it is somewhat overpowered as a multiclass option, especially for the paladin, sorcerer, or bard. In any case, nothing should be compared to hexblade, that is not a bar to aim at.
Agreed... Except on the part of shortrest overpowered hex curse... The fact remains that if dont take a short rest after every fight that ability is gonna be used once every 3 fights in average. Compare that to barbarians rage who can use it from the get go and more then once. Thats the only reason i say the ability is far from overpowered. If anything i think its underpowered.
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Hexblades curse would be underpowered on a paladin or barbarian yes, but let me remind you that the warlock already has a ridiculously high DPR with eldritch blast and their phenomenal upcasting. There is a scale in classes as to how valuable a subclass should be to the class (for example, a sorcerer subclass is much more powerful than a wizard subclass), and hexblade overreaches its boundaries.
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except that with multiclassing every single class goes beyond your 80 damage and some actually beats the hexblade in damage.
when it comes to theorycrafting anything is possible and when it comes to multiclassing, it is always the better option.
saying hexblade is the OP class is bullshit and a moot point. as paladin divine smithing can literally dish out over 100 damage at higher levels. which the hexblade cannot even if he goes smite as well. mostly because the smites of the hexblade are limited to 3 or 4 at max level while the paladin can smite for quite a while before lacking spell slots. while the hexblade has a bit more power from hexblade curse, the rest of its abilities doesn't add up. and its not like the paladin cannot take barbarian levels and fighters level to get the crit zone indefinitely and the advantage on attacks and the damage boost. while your hexblade can only do it once and after need a rest.i figured that at higher levels, the hexblade is losing a lot of its powers to other classes.
exemple...
Hexblade warlock level 20, maxed stats for sake of maxing...
can smite 4 times thanks to 4 level 5 spell slots. thus adding 5d8 to his attacks per spell slot use. can multi attack thus can do it twice per round. dual wielding he can do it 3 times in one round, but will be left smiting only once the next round. his hex blade curse adds a punch by enabling crits from 19-20. gets 6 more points of damage tagged along per attacks. can only use that curse once per short rest making it not viable in minions fighting. basically targets only one creature and is mostly only used on boss fights in a 1 on 1 matter. at level 14, you get the ability to switch target. this ability comes way too high on the list as the ranger can switch hunters mark and the same with hex can be changed. basically you get an improoved version of hex which is a first level spell, but you get it at level 14 instead at which point, is a moot ppoint as the ability has lost many of its grandeur. his specter can dish out damage, sure. but while it last, it is also easy to defeat as a specter at higher level is nothing to really count in a combat. its a minion that gets dealt with easily and thus the prowess of specter is not so much at higher levels. its an ability that loses a lot as the levels goes in. thats not including that if you do a long rest before a major fight, you lose your ally right fromt he get go.
let's compare a paladin multiclassed as a fighter champion and a barbarian 2.
the paladin can swing a great sword two times in a fight. level 15 is a great cut of point for it as it gains a feature at that level. it can divine smite a lot at that point, forgoetting level 5 spells. but still has tons of other spell slots to pump into divine smite. barbarian lets him rage. adding 2 points of damage to every attacks. protecting him as well. at level 2 he gains adavantage on all attacks. being a paladin he can reroll the 1s and the 2s of his great sword. he's in full plate, which the hex blade isn't... thanks to fighter 1, he can also have another fighter style as long as it is not the same one. so now he can gain +1 armor or dual wield instead and gain a third attack. whatever suits his play style. fighter gives him action surge, once per short rest. and an healing ability. fighter 3 gets him champion which allows him to crit (all the time) from 19-20. coupled with advantage on each attacks, this becomes a major crit machine.
in the end if we multiclass a warlock, we lost more and more of his powers great cutoff his 14 level. 6 levels of say fighter and barbarians much like the paladin, would just replace the 14 level, which becomes useless. granted because of hex you dont want the barbarian levels because you'd lose hex entirely if you rage. you want that to hit harder. but in the end... your hexblade curse which is where you get most of your damage. is only a single target and a single use item. your hex is much better as it last for 8 hours. so basically your hexblade curse is not the bomb you think it is because it loses most of its power to the simple fact you are almost never gonna use it. not until you reach 14 level. most adventures are going from level 1 to 15 and ends there. so basically... your hexblade curse won't even be the bomb. except for the final boss fight of the campaign. in theorycrafting, the hexblade is not the OP class you think it is, other classes like rogues and paladins gets much higher dps at higher levels. and that dps is betterly sustained. and multiclasing just changes everything drastically. if it ws me, i'd say damage wise, nothing beats off a paladin or a rogue. they are literally first in my list. i'll admit that since hexblade and smiting came to warlock, he's got a boost up to 3rd place. second place would be a warlock eldritch nuke multiclased as a sorcery and fighter... 12 attacks in one round is a hell of a lot of damage to be doing.
For the changes...
one has to wonder why you get a pdf of eberron rise in march ?!!
in march, which is almost 6 months before the printing of the official book, means you have a very very very drafty book. it probably changed like 5 times ever since. i wouldn't take too much pride in having such a pdf.
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Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron first came out back in February or March. I don't remember exactly when, only that I bought it through DMsGuild on DriveThruRPG back in March. But it didn't get finalized until Rising from the Last War got published.
Take a look at Treatmonk's Eternal Cockroach build on YouTube and here on DNDBeyond:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeTYXJNzbqM
https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/10717775/kWbqdJ
This is what even one level of Hexlade can do in a muliclass environment. A dip of 1 single level of Hexblade . . .
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Agree 100% with you DnDPaladin, but I was trying to bring examples of care when balancing a single class/subclass. And by pointing out how many levels need to be taken I was also accounting for the multiclassing strength of the class. My point still stands if it is a balanced damage class I’d expect around 50 DPT sustainable for at least 10 rounds because Fighter is around 48 without feats or MCs, and iirc a 20th level spellcaster averages 55 DPT using up its progressively decreasing best spellslots.
never said the warlock wsn'T a powerful class with a single dip in levels... heck my fighter 4/sorcerer 14 / warlock 2 can do 12 eldritch blast for the first round and 4 rounds of 8 eldritch blast. for a grand total of... 12d10+60 and thats just the first round of combat... afterward it becomes 8d10+40 and thats not even counting anything aside action surge and metamgics on the eldritch blast with invocations. as far as i know, the warlock do not need the hexblade to deal that much damage.
as for your build cockroach... how often do you actually use hexblade curse ?
for all i know the only reason he took that level 1 dip, was for the charisma instead of strength. thats a great deal on a paladin, i'll give you that. but the hexblade curse wasn't even the real reason for it.if i was him, i would not have taken the warlock dip, instead going fighter 1. then the two level of wizards which are for more protections are pretty much unnecesary. i know he wanted more spell slots, but in the end it is useless when you can go fighter 3 and take battlemaster which gives you tons of better options for protections as well as for offense. that build could of gone any directions for protections, even sorcerers would of been a good choice instead of warlock. in the end, the only reason he took the warlock was because the hexblade curse allows him to use charisma instead of strength. also, he gets to use hex to pump his damage. which i say has no need for hexblade to be good. then again a simple feat would of saved him the trouble as well. and he would of saved a whole character class level for literally anything else. people underestimate the power of magic initiate... that feat is the bomb !
anyway... i'm derailing this too much, i'll stop there... but hexblade while a great archetype in the warlock building... is not all that strong until way higher levels.
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oh you talked about that one, but wayfinders guide is the equivalent of the comapnion guide from elemental evil. it is not made to be the official ruling, it is more like a first draft to prepare those who wanted to play in eberron. yes we all thought it was a book that was gonna be continued, but in the end it was not.
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This is an argument for making the removed subraces non-AL legal (which is fine).
The biggest problem I see is Warforged. They collapsed the entire race into envoy after placing a $1.99 value on each subrace.
Unlike what they did with the dragonmarks that didn't make it into Rising, the two missing Wayfairer's Warforged have simply been removed as functional options.
They put a price tag on something, took money for it, and then revoked it. That's really not how you establish trust with people you want to continue to purchase your products.
If Wayfairer's Guide had been sold as Compendium content only and supplemented with free builder options until Rising was released, we'd have no room to gripe.
And the bit about it being a "living document" would have been a great reason to give us three vetted warforged, not discard the other two.
except all 3 of those races were completely and insanely breaking the bound accuracy. with a warforged anything was better then anything else. thanks to full plate on say a wizard and it giving you on the spot a magnificent 20 AC which is more then a fighter with full plate (which he still has to buy since he doesn't get it at start) and above all that, his proficiency bonus tackled onto it which boost him for 2. now if he gets a shield as well, that warforged could be AC 22 right from level 1. even the fighter needs to go thru a ton of hoops to get to the fabled 21 AC. the problem of those warforged was the fact that they get all armor types from the get go and can switch between them as they please. as well as having their proficiency added to their armor which was ludicrous.
i agree that tagging a price on it was ridiculous. but i do not agree to leaving very broken races in the builder.
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I could argue about the mechanics, but those are distraction from the real issue. The "Full plate at lvl 1" problem can be fixed by applying the armor integration feature in the fixed version to the base race while still supporting the discarded subraces. That's all covered by "this material will be adjusted" declaration.
The quantity of content is nearly as important as the quality. You don't fix the warforged by killing the juggernaut and skirmisher. You fix the juggernaut and skirmisher.
ok then to you, all races they have done up to this point should of actually been done. even it means they will be identical to the other races.
i could argue with you the same way, if they though warforged didn't need subraces, then it didn't need subraces. the fact is, while all warforged were created for different goals in mind, they were all identical ! i think the juggernaught and skirmishers didn't even need to be there. i could create myself a juggernaught by just saying... i'm going full plate. i already agreed that removing paying content after making it paid for was a bad move. but i'm not gonna agree to that skewed vision of yours that every races should have a subrace. actually think many of the subraces we have are just too similar to one another and should of been removed from the get go. the same way in ravnica the lizardfolk didn't made the cut cause they were too identical to the already existing lizardfolk. changing one ability isn't what makes a race ! to your point, i would say then.... go ahead create 25 more human races... after al they say they are diverse with diverse skills and abilities. so why didn't we get those 25 more races.
the fact is, we don't need races that are so identical to each others. warforged were all identical under the hood. they weren't all separate. so skirmishers and juggernaughts were nothing more then just a warforged changing armor type, which the actual race actually does. and i have a player in my group who could proove it to you as he plays a caster bard at first then become a juggernaught. all he did was change his exterior and that was it.
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The game is ruinded by computer gamers who are all about balance. RPG's were NEVER meant to be about balance and that is what ruined 4E and is starting 5E down the same path.
These peeps who want balance should just all play humans r-skiined to look like the various races.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
You keep trying to bring this back to your preferences and how you would have liked to see the mechanics from the start.
But this isn't insulting because of how a race was built or whether you personally liked it. This isn't Wizards deciding whether or not to include a race I a new supplement.
If this was a race of sentient dentures who had a fly speed and 1d3 natural weapon attack that got pulled, it would be just as insulting.
If I sell you a sandwich, show you the sandwich, and then throw it away, you're probably not going to come back to my deli.
I strongly agree that any content we’ve paid for should still be available (in UA form, and marked as such)
And you keep trying to bring me to your views of "i wanted my very OP race to stick around when they clearly said it might not".
you seem to think i'm not on your side when it comes to payment and you seem to just ignore that comment entirely just to pick on a thing i'm saying is normal to be.
yet because "you" don't like the idea of losing your favorite OP race. you want everyone to keep it.
for the record, since the beginning... i've been saying the same as you... the idea of pulling something we have paid for, is not great.
but i have to admit... the policy of dndbeyond is clear on the fact that everything you buy here might not stick around infinitely. so before you bought it, you knew you might lose things.
now when that happens, you cry that you didn't know ?
i bought the wayfarer as well, did i make great use of it while it lasted, "ABSOLUTELY !" i've been using it since day one, so was it worth buying. sure it did. and at 20$ it was a steal !
now was that a great move from WotC, again, not at all... but what can you do about it ? they wont change their mind even if we are 100,000 thousands asking for it.
now deal with that relaity, everything you buy here might not stick around. that was not just in WotC policy, it is also in beyond policy that you accepted when you created an account.
if the book had been up for say a week and then changed, heck even a month... i'd have been pissed off too. but 8 months later... that argument of yours has lost much of its power. for that payment of yours has been more then paid back for.
now i'm gonna stop replying, not because i want the last word, i know you'll reply and im fine letting you have that last word... but because we're not making any progress on this and it is ridiculous to continu this.
back to the artificer, i really love how they done it. can't wait to see the next archetypes that goes along with it.
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Still not sure about the spell storing feature. Can I use a 1st level spell cast as 2nd (cure wounds)? RAW doesnt seem so but RAI should. And when you cast a spell higher it becomes that level. Any Idea?
Homebrew I share:
Demonic Houndmaster
A hexblade, yes, does less damage than a paladin at high levels, but comparing the two is a bit wrong. Hexblade has damage output SLIGHTLY below a paladin with eldritch smite (which isn't subclass specific), but at level ONE they get a hugely frontloaded feature that makes them better at fighting than a fighter for a time, recharging on a short rest. The thing is, hexblade on its own is not overpowered, but it is somewhat overpowered as a multiclass option, especially for the paladin, sorcerer, or bard. In any case, nothing should be compared to hexblade, that is not a bar to aim at.
And quite honestly, the warforged now is FINE. They did not "butcher" it, they did not "ruin" it, they made it actually functional in the rules of 5e while removing vestigal subclasses.
The problem in your perspective. Is that you consider that everyone are the same and only want RP. But there are those who likes to be heroics. And heroism cannot happen if you are just a commoner. Looking at someone being untouchable while you get hit by a fart. Is making you look unheroic and stupid. This is why people use point buy instead. To make sure randomness doesnt make you too weak compared to others...
May it be in any type of games. Going over the balancing issue makes the thing unplayable. Look at rangers for exemples. They are considered the worst class in 5e mainly because it has features that are way too situationnal.
Had they given him abilities that do stuff and then gets boosted by said abilities. Then people wouldnt have cryed. That said rangers are still fun to play.
But like in 3e... Why would you play anything else then wizards if they can do everything the others do but way better. As a level 6 wizard i was still carrying a group of level 12 players. Once the balance goes out of controls the game feels much less fun because there are always subpar characters who seem to do nothing in the group.
I can do role play fine. But i refuse to be playing a shitty character that a dm needs to pet to stay alive. Its much more satisfying to know i survived because of my wits then because the dm fudged his rolls.
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Agreed... Except on the part of shortrest overpowered hex curse... The fact remains that if dont take a short rest after every fight that ability is gonna be used once every 3 fights in average. Compare that to barbarians rage who can use it from the get go and more then once. Thats the only reason i say the ability is far from overpowered. If anything i think its underpowered.
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Hexblades curse would be underpowered on a paladin or barbarian yes, but let me remind you that the warlock already has a ridiculously high DPR with eldritch blast and their phenomenal upcasting. There is a scale in classes as to how valuable a subclass should be to the class (for example, a sorcerer subclass is much more powerful than a wizard subclass), and hexblade overreaches its boundaries.