I agree it should be that simple, or at least I don't have an issue with it being that simple. However some users are seeing the lineage shifting as more nuanced, under the impression that some aspect of the original race would be retained. My reading feels that this is more a "transformation" and the PCs past race is left in the past. However, the way the UA presents race and lineage and culture and inherent traits I think has raised some confusion. My first read was a simple transformation, but the more I re-read the doc the more folks who want to treat this as a "template" that shifts rather than switches seem to have a case
Oh, I agree that it should be an add-on template (probably as a feat, as that means a custom lineage can take it at first level), rather than a lineage in the first place, but as currently written it's just 'race -> change race'.
I'm always a fan of keeping things simple. I think if as a player you want to be a dhampir and gain those abilities, it makes sense that you have to lose something of your former life in the process. Not only is it cleaner from a game mechanics perspective, it's also thematically appropriate.
I'm always a fan of keeping things simple. I think if as a player you want to be a dhampir and gain those abilities, it makes sense that you have to lose something of your former life in the process. Not only is it cleaner from a game mechanics perspective, it's also thematically appropriate.
For the relatively common races that's fine, but there's some physical traits it's harder to justify disappearing.
Any such species - and let's be real, everybody's talking pretty much strictly about aarakocra - can regain their "why is this gone?" trait through a fairly simple custom feat rather than trying to create a template system. As I recall, half-whatever templates were one of the things people despised absolutely the very most about 3.5 and wished to never see again. I find it curious people are pushing so hard for templates now, when they normally snarl like madmen about anything that adds complexity.
I'm always a fan of keeping things simple. I think if as a player you want to be a dhampir and gain those abilities, it makes sense that you have to lose something of your former life in the process. Not only is it cleaner from a game mechanics perspective, it's also thematically appropriate.
For the relatively common races that's fine, but there's some physical traits it's harder to justify disappearing.
Yep, it's going to be weird enough for the Tortle to return to their village having been thought dead a generation ... but to show up shell-less aside from an improvised barrel and suspenders. That's like a reversed children's book in the making, "How the Tortle Lost It's Shell (by taking a lineage)."
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Any such species - and let's be real, everybody's talking pretty much strictly about aarakocra - can regain their "why is this gone?" trait through a fairly simple custom feat rather than trying to create a template system.
Or you could create a custom feat that gives the relevant (non-attribute) effects of the new lineages... if it seems overpowered for a feat, it's probably overpowered as a lineage.
I'm always a fan of keeping things simple. I think if as a player you want to be a dhampir and gain those abilities, it makes sense that you have to lose something of your former life in the process. Not only is it cleaner from a game mechanics perspective, it's also thematically appropriate.
For the relatively common races that's fine, but there's some physical traits it's harder to justify disappearing.
Yep, it's going to be weird enough for the Tortle to return to their village having been thought dead a generation ... but to show up shell-less aside from an improvised barrel and suspenders. That's like a reversed children's book in the making, "How the Tortle Lost It's Shell (by taking a lineage)."
"I want to attack that gnoll with my Leonin claws!"
"You were Reborn last week. You're made of straw now, and those stuffed paws of yours would fare no better in combat than a pillow. Try a swing with your greatsword instead."
"You think I can lift a ten pound sword with straw arms? Matter of fact, how am I standing up in full plate? What happened to the ale I drank this morning!?"
Its been mentioned I am sure, but I wish the type was a choice instead of a duality as it actually makes you very suceptinle to things (Turn/Destroy Undead for example applies to you so friendly fire is a real thing), you are now also succeptible to both charm person AND monster effects, and while you may think ypu get immunities from being undead or construct you actually dont because you are still Human... so yeah.
I would prefer Dhampir to be a choice between Human & Undead, Hexblood Fey & Human and Reborn in my mind should actually be a full monster choice between Undead and Construct.
Again im sure its been mentioned but its whats been on my mind with these lineages the most and what ill likely submit when the survey opens up.
It's certainly a tactical challenge for ten turns (often a whole combat) if the gothic PC fails their save. In a broad battle space, basically the Gothline (let's see if that truncation of Gothic Lineage sticks) can either retreat or treat the turning as a compelled forward drive, away from what's likely the party's main source of healing. I guess it would be the same in close quarters. Say the party was a in small room with only one point of entry and the cleric just drove off a hoard of undead. I wouldn't compel the Gothline to follow the hoard's exit, but it's basically hugging the wall and keeping distance from the cleric for the minute.
For some groups this could get into the taboo area of using Charm or Dominate on another party member.
I'm on the fence about the Dhampyr bite empowering properties while also having access to divine healing magic (and maybe blessings or even bardic inspiration). EDIT I guess that it only works when the Dhampyr is below half hit points makes it a balanced "emergency" trait, basically inspiration adjacent or low grade healing potion access with a diminishing return emergency condition required to use. I think I just talked myself into being good with it. /EDIT Huh, bite empowerment isn't contained within a half hit point area. Yeah, I'm not sure I dig this, plus possible exploits pointed out elsewhere. I guess it's on par with the Reborn's knowledge recall trait, but that begs the question whether these lineage powers are above and beyond what's available to the extant races.
Ummm if i understood it correctly pcs are considered cr/4 so they would potentially get destroyed by turn no?
I was wondering about that too. Not sure whether PCs have a flat CR, I don't think they're officially calculated so sort of makes it moot. But if PCs do map to the CR levels, yeah, that might be rough. Maybe half nature only means "half destroyed" so half hp drop.
It's certainly a tactical challenge for ten turns (often a whole combat) if the gothic PC fails their save.
It's not terribly hard to break someone free of turn undead (just do damage to them) though it takes an action of some sort.
Flee toward enemy, get hurt maybe even multi mob hurt, then disengage back to heal point. Or (weakest character), "I ready an action to unarmed strike our Gothline for when the Palladin or Cleric Turns the Undead or Fey. If Gothline flees can I consider it an opportunity attack?" Or, "Ok, turned the horde, someone find our Gothline and knock some sense back into 'em?" I mean it's not "hard" but it is nevertheless a potentially new frustration, though I'd say below the level of AoE damage spells being used with players in the AoE.
Last thought, Bard readies Vicious mockery as a parting shot for when the Gothline's turned, calls it the "hook line." Maybe something to the tune of "Brave Brave Sir Robin."
Ummm if i understood it correctly pcs are considered cr/4 so they would potentially get destroyed by turn no?
PCs don't have a challenge rating, so things like Destroy Undead shouldn't affect them. Being hit by a Mace of Disruption that ends with them having 25 or fewer hitpoints would still require a save or die, though.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Ummm if i understood it correctly pcs are considered cr/4 so they would potentially get destroyed by turn no?
CR/4 is typically used to determine what monsters to throw at a party. Player characters themselves do not have challenge ratings.
Polymorph states that "the new form the target transforms into can be any beast whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the target's (or the target's level, if it doesn't have a challenge rating)." It's tough to say if that line of text is enough of a precedent to allow non-humanoid PCs to use their level for CR-dependent effects, but honestly I don't know of any other text (off the top of my head, anyway) that goes into what CR a PC would have.
Ummm if i understood it correctly pcs are considered cr/4 so they would potentially get destroyed by turn no?
CR/4 is typically used to determine what monsters to throw at a party. Player characters themselves do not have challenge ratings.
Polymorph states that "the new form the target transforms into can be any beast whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the target's (or the target's level, if it doesn't have a challenge rating)." It's tough to say if that line of text is enough of a precedent to allow non-humanoid PCs to use their level for CR-dependent effects, but honestly I don't know of any other text (off the top of my head, anyway) that goes into what CR a PC would have.
Well, it does indeed look like they are cramming this lineage system down our throats. It might be time to consider if this is the beginning of the end of 5e for me, or if the end already happened and I can stop paying attention to new content.
I mean, you can always just not use it... or any of the stuff in the game you don't like.
Well, it does indeed look like they are cramming this lineage system down our throats. It might be time to consider if this is the beginning of the end of 5e for me, or if the end already happened and I can stop paying attention to new content.
I mean, you can always just not use it... or any of the stuff in the game you don't like.
Yes, but I think some of the passions that get raised is because while people like the game they got, they nevertheless want their game to grow through officially supported products. Since it seems Tasha's is in fact not so much an optional system but the future of all character options when it comes to race/lineage selection, I can understand the frustration. I also think there's a problem in having the core PHB with its rules for race, and as soon as someone picks up the latest hardcover find themselves in the "oh, yeah, the way you were making characters, the game has gone in a different direction, this is how we're doing it now" is problematic (leading me to forecast a consolidation of these options into a "Golden Edition" in time for the 50th anniversary in 2024).
I myself don't get that excited either way, but I can understand the passions getting stoked either way in others.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I'm always a fan of keeping things simple. I think if as a player you want to be a dhampir and gain those abilities, it makes sense that you have to lose something of your former life in the process. Not only is it cleaner from a game mechanics perspective, it's also thematically appropriate.
For the relatively common races that's fine, but there's some physical traits it's harder to justify disappearing.
Any such species - and let's be real, everybody's talking pretty much strictly about aarakocra - can regain their "why is this gone?" trait through a fairly simple custom feat rather than trying to create a template system. As I recall, half-whatever templates were one of the things people despised absolutely the very most about 3.5 and wished to never see again. I find it curious people are pushing so hard for templates now, when they normally snarl like madmen about anything that adds complexity.
Please do not contact or message me.
Yep, it's going to be weird enough for the Tortle to return to their village having been thought dead a generation ... but to show up shell-less aside from an improvised barrel and suspenders. That's like a reversed children's book in the making, "How the Tortle Lost It's Shell (by taking a lineage)."
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Or you could create a custom feat that gives the relevant (non-attribute) effects of the new lineages... if it seems overpowered for a feat, it's probably overpowered as a lineage.
"I want to attack that gnoll with my Leonin claws!"
"You were Reborn last week. You're made of straw now, and those stuffed paws of yours would fare no better in combat than a pillow. Try a swing with your greatsword instead."
"You think I can lift a ten pound sword with straw arms? Matter of fact, how am I standing up in full plate? What happened to the ale I drank this morning!?"
Its been mentioned I am sure, but I wish the type was a choice instead of a duality as it actually makes you very suceptinle to things (Turn/Destroy Undead for example applies to you so friendly fire is a real thing), you are now also succeptible to both charm person AND monster effects, and while you may think ypu get immunities from being undead or construct you actually dont because you are still Human... so yeah.
I would prefer Dhampir to be a choice between Human & Undead, Hexblood Fey & Human and Reborn in my mind should actually be a full monster choice between Undead and Construct.
Again im sure its been mentioned but its whats been on my mind with these lineages the most and what ill likely submit when the survey opens up.
I think that susceptibility to friendly fire is part of the balancing.
I agree, it certainly makes it more interesting for me.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Could also set up good RP conflicts with any party members that have (and use) Turn Undead.
It's certainly a tactical challenge for ten turns (often a whole combat) if the gothic PC fails their save. In a broad battle space, basically the Gothline (let's see if that truncation of Gothic Lineage sticks) can either retreat or treat the turning as a compelled forward drive, away from what's likely the party's main source of healing. I guess it would be the same in close quarters. Say the party was a in small room with only one point of entry and the cleric just drove off a hoard of undead. I wouldn't compel the Gothline to follow the hoard's exit, but it's basically hugging the wall and keeping distance from the cleric for the minute.
For some groups this could get into the taboo area of using Charm or Dominate on another party member.
I'm on the fence about the Dhampyr bite empowering properties while also having access to divine healing magic (and maybe blessings or even bardic inspiration). EDIT
I guess that it only works when the Dhampyr is below half hit points makes it a balanced "emergency" trait, basically inspiration adjacent or low grade healing potion access with a diminishing return emergency condition required to use. I think I just talked myself into being good with it. /EDIT Huh, bite empowerment isn't contained within a half hit point area. Yeah, I'm not sure I dig this, plus possible exploits pointed out elsewhere. I guess it's on par with the Reborn's knowledge recall trait, but that begs the question whether these lineage powers are above and beyond what's available to the extant races.Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
It's not terribly hard to break someone free of turn undead (just do damage to them) though it takes an action of some sort.
Ummm if i understood it correctly pcs are considered cr/4 so they would potentially get destroyed by turn no?
I was wondering about that too. Not sure whether PCs have a flat CR, I don't think they're officially calculated so sort of makes it moot. But if PCs do map to the CR levels, yeah, that might be rough. Maybe half nature only means "half destroyed" so half hp drop.
Flee toward enemy, get hurt maybe even multi mob hurt, then disengage back to heal point. Or (weakest character), "I ready an action to unarmed strike our Gothline for when the Palladin or Cleric Turns the Undead or Fey. If Gothline flees can I consider it an opportunity attack?" Or, "Ok, turned the horde, someone find our Gothline and knock some sense back into 'em?" I mean it's not "hard" but it is nevertheless a potentially new frustration, though I'd say below the level of AoE damage spells being used with players in the AoE.
Last thought, Bard readies Vicious mockery as a parting shot for when the Gothline's turned, calls it the "hook line." Maybe something to the tune of "Brave Brave Sir Robin."
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
PCs don't have a challenge rating, so things like Destroy Undead shouldn't affect them. Being hit by a Mace of Disruption that ends with them having 25 or fewer hitpoints would still require a save or die, though.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
CR/4 is typically used to determine what monsters to throw at a party. Player characters themselves do not have challenge ratings.
Polymorph states that "the new form the target transforms into can be any beast whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the target's (or the target's level, if it doesn't have a challenge rating)." It's tough to say if that line of text is enough of a precedent to allow non-humanoid PCs to use their level for CR-dependent effects, but honestly I don't know of any other text (off the top of my head, anyway) that goes into what CR a PC would have.
CR is about playerlevel-4
I mean, you can always just not use it... or any of the stuff in the game you don't like.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Yes, but I think some of the passions that get raised is because while people like the game they got, they nevertheless want their game to grow through officially supported products. Since it seems Tasha's is in fact not so much an optional system but the future of all character options when it comes to race/lineage selection, I can understand the frustration. I also think there's a problem in having the core PHB with its rules for race, and as soon as someone picks up the latest hardcover find themselves in the "oh, yeah, the way you were making characters, the game has gone in a different direction, this is how we're doing it now" is problematic (leading me to forecast a consolidation of these options into a "Golden Edition" in time for the 50th anniversary in 2024).
I myself don't get that excited either way, but I can understand the passions getting stoked either way in others.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I also understand expecting a certain degree of hand wringing that comes with the territory when a new UA is announced.
"Not all those who wander are lost"