New game, starting at first level, going through Yawning Portal adventures.
I am playing a fighter - the only fighter-type in the party. I will be responsible for tanking I suspect.
I usually go point-buy or use the standard array for ability scores, but the DM encouraged rolling, so I went with it and rolled. 6 straight rolls in Roll20 for the DM, 4d6 drop lowest.
I got 18, 17, 17, 11, 9, 6. (First roll was 6, 6, 6, 6).
Playing a dwarf (mountain). So that's 20 Str, 19 Con, 17 (?), 11, 9, 6.
And that's the unusual problem. I've never had THREE high scores before. At least, not in 5e. I think the last time I had three high scores was 30 years ago or so.
Strength and Con are set. But, what do I assign other 17 to?
Do you guys suggest Dex, so I can have some competency with ranged weapons in addition to melee (because some day there may well be a flying dragon as a foe) and I benefit from better initiative and slightly better AC until I get plate? In which case I'd assign 11 to Wis.
Or do I go Wis so I can have better perception and better saves against the most deadly spells (and often weakest aspect) that fighters face? In which case I'd assign 11 to Dex (9 Int, 6 chr).
These are surely first world problems. What do you think?
I'd personally put that 17 into WIS, though INT & CHA are also viable - rather than just looking at the save, think of the skill checks. Fighters don't get many skill proficiencies, but you have the ability to be quite good at a bunch of skills here.
@filcat - 4d6 is the standard rolling method: roll 4d6 for each stat and take the 3 best dice (page 13 PHB).
I'd personally put that 17 into WIS, though INT & CHA are also viable - rather than just looking at the save, think of the skill checks. Fighters don't get many skill proficiencies, but you have the ability to be quite good at a bunch of skills here.
@filcat - 4d6 is the standard rolling method: roll 4d6 for each stat and take the 3 best dice (page 13 PHB).
Oh, you are right, I forgot the detail about taking the best 3.
I'm not a big fan of rolling, because it creates power gaps between PCs. But still, I'd go with whatever stat sounds like it would fit with the character's backstory and personality. If you want to min/max, probably Wis would be your best bet.
I'm not a big fan of rolling, because it creates power gaps between PCs. But still, I'd go with whatever stat sounds like it would fit with the character's backstory and personality. If you want to min/max, probably Wis would be your best bet.
Backstory doesn't help much either way, but slightly more for wisdom than dex I suspect.
I think most of the other are pretty spot on to take Wis as your 3rd stat. It's good for saves and having Perception Trained.
On the other hand if you go for a high Int, that could make a pretty killer Eldritch Knight.
It's not what you're thinking but one concept I've wanted to play is a finesse defensive fighter with a shield. Make a Alt-Human with the starting feat: Shield Master
Str: 11
Dex: 18
Con: 18 (17+1)
Int: ?
Wis: 18 (17+1)
Cha: ?
Take your first level in Rogue, and 2nd+ levels in Fighter. Main a Rapier and wield a shield. Take Expertise in Athletics & Perception. The bonus is also in a small group you take up some of the slack of maybe not having a Rogue in the party and you have a lot more skills in general.
It's a little odd because 1st level is very clunky, but once you hit level 2 you can wield a shield and take Dueling (yes, Shield Mastery has to requirement to be trained in Shield). Also you're still just as deadly with a ranged weapon as you are with a rapier.
Once you're level 2, your standard action can be: Bonus Action: shove to the ground (why you take Expertise in Athletics) and Attack Action to stab them (with Advantage for them on the ground). The Shield will also give you bonuses on your Dex save vs spells and eventually make you very very hard to Fireball/Lightning bolt.
As you hit higher levels Gaunlets of Orge Str won't help your hit/damage, but they will boot your Athletic checks.
I like Eldritch Knight but it's not what I am going for in this character. Multi-classing however is not out of the question.
In terms of AC I am concerned. He's a polearm-wielder for melee. Which means no shield. Heavy armor is only going to get him to 18 AC with plate (which itself is hard to afford until much higher levels) and I can get it to 19 with Defensive (which was not my plan but I could go with it instead of GWM).
On the other hand, if I were to go with Dex, then I could take a level in Barbarian. Now my unarmored AC is 19, or 20 with Defensive. At 8th level it will be 20, or 21 with Defensive. And I have some rages to work with, and slightly more hit points, though my second attack and feat are delayed one level (unless I wait until 6th level to take the Barbarian level).
It's not that a 16-18 AC is "low". But as the only tank in the party (two warlocks and a bard, so far, with a possible mostly-NPC cleric holding back for healing only) a high AC may be important.
I know early on it's very tempting to take great weapons because they chop things down faster. But once you get up into the high tier 2/ tier 3 realm where you start fighting things with hundreds of hit points, not getting hit and/or being able to absorb damage becomes more important than whether you are rolling a d12 or a d8 for damage. Especially not getting hit.
One of my characters is a fighter 8/barb 1 wearing no armor at all. 16 Dex and 18 Con, with bracers of defense and a +2 magic shield means he has an AC of 23. The next ASI he gets will be dex so his AC becomes 24. Even at that, he's got the barb 1 because we've been fighting giants and he still gets hit often enough he needs the HP.
So my advice is, you can't kill things if you're dead. Not getting hit is more important than having a bigger weapon, as you fight tougher things. . Just my experience this last year or so. .
I believe the description of Bracers of Defense says "While wearing these bracers, you gain a +2 bonus to AC if you are wearing no armor and using no shield.", so you can't mix them with a +2 Shield, but can use them when you aren't wearing a shield.
Mistwell: I know what you mean, 16 is a damn good AC, but when you're the main tank it feels like paper. I look at it this way, every time an attack misses is like having extra HP. personally biased because I dislike heavy armor, so I universally lean toward high dex and light armor, but I like your concept a lot.
The Defensive fighting style requires armor, right? Can it be used by one taking advantage of a barbarian's unarmored defense? Or do shields count as armor? Fixing to play a fighter myself, so I am genuinely curious.
The defensive fighting style requires wearing an armor, so it excludes the benfit from unarmored defense.
You can benefit from the shield bonus when use are using unarmored defense. The rule say so clearly:
Unarmored Defense While you are not wearing any armor, your Armor Class equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Constitution modifier. You can use a shield and still gain this benefit.
The Defensive fighting style requires armor, right? Can it be used by one taking advantage of a barbarian's unarmored defense? Or do shields count as armor? Fixing to play a fighter myself, so I am genuinely curious.
The fighter fighting style "defense" requires the character to be physically wearing armour.
A shield is NOT armour - totally different.
A barbarian CAN use unarmored defense whilst using a shield. :)
Proficiency with shields is separate to proficiency with light/medium/heavy armour.
Ah right, can't use "defense" with unarmored. And I am determined to use a two-handed pole-arm as my primary weapon (for character concept reasons), though I suppose I could carry a shield for those times where I want to switch to a one-handed weapon.
I think that helps a lot in making my decision. A Fighter with 1 level of Barbarian would start with an AC of 10 + 4 (con) + 3 (dex) = 17. A Fighter with Defense and no Barbarian level would start with an AC of 16 (chain mail) + 1 (defense) = 17. So they would be equal.
At level 4 I am taking the pole-arm feat, so the earliest ASI I would devote to raising that 19 to a 20 and the 17 to an 18 would be level 6 fighter. By level 7 I should have splint mail, potentially even plate mail depending on what we find in the adventure (as I am likely the only character wearing heavy armor, whatever heavy armor we find will be mine to choose from).
So at level 7 straight-fighter I'd have an AC of 17 (splint) + 1 (defense) = 18, or potentially 19 if I have plate by then. At fighter 6 / Barb 1 I'd have an AC of 10 + 5 (con) + 4 (dex) = 19. So they would either be one-off or equal.
Fighter 8 could be used for another ASI, but I am likely to take my second feat then (either Great Weapon Master or Sentinel). So it would have to wait until Fighter 12 (so character level 13) before my next ASI devoted to ability increases.
At Fighter 13 I'd likely have magical plate by then. I can't be sure of that of course, but I think it's a fair bet given nobody else would be taking it if we found one. So that would be an AC of 18 (plate) +1 (magic) +1 (defense) = 20. Fighter 12 / Barb 1 would have an AC of 10 +5 (con) + 5 (dex) = 20. Now it's quite possible there is some magic a Barbarian could use at this level as well, like Bracers of Defense. The trouble with that is there is serious competition for such a magic item in this party composition - almost every other character could make use of bracers of defense. So, while the Barbarian might have as high as an AC of 22 at this level, it's far less likely I'd guess than the Plate +1 (which nobody else would want).
Bottom line seems to be, the barbarian level is only marginally helpful with AC, if at all helpful. Most of the time I am likely to have the same AC with just straight-fighter. And, though I lose some things by not taking that level of Barbarian, like Rage, I gain swifter advancement to things like a second attack and feats. In terms of ability scores, I lose the benefit to initiative from a higher Dex, the ability to use a range weapon effectively beyond relatively short range, and Dex saves. However I gain the higher wisdom, which gets me things like perception, and most importantly wisdom saves. I also don't have to use ASI's for ability scores as much. I would use one for pumping Con to 20 and Wisdom to 18, though I could just take the Durable feat instead and leave Wisdom at 17 while guaranteeing my hit dice roll max each time, which is pretty sweet.
Thanks guys, this has been instructive. I am sticking with Fighter, and putting the 17 in Wisdom rather than Dex. Which also better matches my character concept. Much appreciated.
It might just be me, but I put my abilities based on what I want my character to be. Do you want him to be charismatic, or smart? I tend away from min-maxing and decide what would make the most fun role playing element
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
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I have an unusual problem.
New game, starting at first level, going through Yawning Portal adventures.
I am playing a fighter - the only fighter-type in the party. I will be responsible for tanking I suspect.
I usually go point-buy or use the standard array for ability scores, but the DM encouraged rolling, so I went with it and rolled. 6 straight rolls in Roll20 for the DM, 4d6 drop lowest.
I got 18, 17, 17, 11, 9, 6. (First roll was 6, 6, 6, 6).
Playing a dwarf (mountain). So that's 20 Str, 19 Con, 17 (?), 11, 9, 6.
And that's the unusual problem. I've never had THREE high scores before. At least, not in 5e. I think the last time I had three high scores was 30 years ago or so.
Strength and Con are set. But, what do I assign other 17 to?
Do you guys suggest Dex, so I can have some competency with ranged weapons in addition to melee (because some day there may well be a flying dragon as a foe) and I benefit from better initiative and slightly better AC until I get plate? In which case I'd assign 11 to Wis.
Or do I go Wis so I can have better perception and better saves against the most deadly spells (and often weakest aspect) that fighters face? In which case I'd assign 11 to Dex (9 Int, 6 chr).
These are surely first world problems. What do you think?
if you are planning to use medium or heavy armours go for WIS. otherwise DEX first.
A question though, you roll 4d6 for the statistics?
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D&D Beyond FoundersI'd personally put that 17 into WIS, though INT & CHA are also viable - rather than just looking at the save, think of the skill checks. Fighters don't get many skill proficiencies, but you have the ability to be quite good at a bunch of skills here.
@filcat - 4d6 is the standard rolling method: roll 4d6 for each stat and take the 3 best dice (page 13 PHB).
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
I'm not a big fan of rolling, because it creates power gaps between PCs. But still, I'd go with whatever stat sounds like it would fit with the character's backstory and personality. If you want to min/max, probably Wis would be your best bet.
If you're the only tank, in a lot of combats a caster will try to take you out with something that requires a wisdom save.
I think most of the other are pretty spot on to take Wis as your 3rd stat. It's good for saves and having Perception Trained.
On the other hand if you go for a high Int, that could make a pretty killer Eldritch Knight.
It's not what you're thinking but one concept I've wanted to play is a finesse defensive fighter with a shield. Make a Alt-Human with the starting feat: Shield Master
Take your first level in Rogue, and 2nd+ levels in Fighter. Main a Rapier and wield a shield. Take Expertise in Athletics & Perception. The bonus is also in a small group you take up some of the slack of maybe not having a Rogue in the party and you have a lot more skills in general.
It's a little odd because 1st level is very clunky, but once you hit level 2 you can wield a shield and take Dueling (yes, Shield Mastery has to requirement to be trained in Shield). Also you're still just as deadly with a ranged weapon as you are with a rapier.
Once you're level 2, your standard action can be: Bonus Action: shove to the ground (why you take Expertise in Athletics) and Attack Action to stab them (with Advantage for them on the ground). The Shield will also give you bonuses on your Dex save vs spells and eventually make you very very hard to Fireball/Lightning bolt.
As you hit higher levels Gaunlets of Orge Str won't help your hit/damage, but they will boot your Athletic checks.
I like Eldritch Knight but it's not what I am going for in this character. Multi-classing however is not out of the question.
In terms of AC I am concerned. He's a polearm-wielder for melee. Which means no shield. Heavy armor is only going to get him to 18 AC with plate (which itself is hard to afford until much higher levels) and I can get it to 19 with Defensive (which was not my plan but I could go with it instead of GWM).
On the other hand, if I were to go with Dex, then I could take a level in Barbarian. Now my unarmored AC is 19, or 20 with Defensive. At 8th level it will be 20, or 21 with Defensive. And I have some rages to work with, and slightly more hit points, though my second attack and feat are delayed one level (unless I wait until 6th level to take the Barbarian level).
It's not that a 16-18 AC is "low". But as the only tank in the party (two warlocks and a bard, so far, with a possible mostly-NPC cleric holding back for healing only) a high AC may be important.
I know early on it's very tempting to take great weapons because they chop things down faster. But once you get up into the high tier 2/ tier 3 realm where you start fighting things with hundreds of hit points, not getting hit and/or being able to absorb damage becomes more important than whether you are rolling a d12 or a d8 for damage. Especially not getting hit.
One of my characters is a fighter 8/barb 1 wearing no armor at all. 16 Dex and 18 Con, with bracers of defense and a +2 magic shield means he has an AC of 23. The next ASI he gets will be dex so his AC becomes 24. Even at that, he's got the barb 1 because we've been fighting giants and he still gets hit often enough he needs the HP.
So my advice is, you can't kill things if you're dead. Not getting hit is more important than having a bigger weapon, as you fight tougher things. . Just my experience this last year or so. .
Kingofelfland:
I believe Shields count as armor, as they are listed in the "Armor" section of the game.Correction: filecat and Stormknight are both correct and I was wrong: http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/07/18/does-a-shield-count-as-wearing-armor/
burard2:
I believe the description of Bracers of Defense says "While wearing these bracers, you gain a +2 bonus to AC if you are wearing no armor and using no shield.", so you can't mix them with a +2 Shield, but can use them when you aren't wearing a shield.
Mistwell: I know what you mean, 16 is a damn good AC, but when you're the main tank it feels like paper. I look at it this way, every time an attack misses is like having extra HP. personally biased because I dislike heavy armor, so I universally lean toward high dex and light armor, but I like your concept a lot.
While you are not wearing any armor, your Armor Class equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Constitution modifier. You can use a shield and still gain this benefit.
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D&D Beyond FoundersPun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Ah right, can't use "defense" with unarmored. And I am determined to use a two-handed pole-arm as my primary weapon (for character concept reasons), though I suppose I could carry a shield for those times where I want to switch to a one-handed weapon.
I think that helps a lot in making my decision. A Fighter with 1 level of Barbarian would start with an AC of 10 + 4 (con) + 3 (dex) = 17. A Fighter with Defense and no Barbarian level would start with an AC of 16 (chain mail) + 1 (defense) = 17. So they would be equal.
At level 4 I am taking the pole-arm feat, so the earliest ASI I would devote to raising that 19 to a 20 and the 17 to an 18 would be level 6 fighter. By level 7 I should have splint mail, potentially even plate mail depending on what we find in the adventure (as I am likely the only character wearing heavy armor, whatever heavy armor we find will be mine to choose from).
So at level 7 straight-fighter I'd have an AC of 17 (splint) + 1 (defense) = 18, or potentially 19 if I have plate by then. At fighter 6 / Barb 1 I'd have an AC of 10 + 5 (con) + 4 (dex) = 19. So they would either be one-off or equal.
Fighter 8 could be used for another ASI, but I am likely to take my second feat then (either Great Weapon Master or Sentinel). So it would have to wait until Fighter 12 (so character level 13) before my next ASI devoted to ability increases.
At Fighter 13 I'd likely have magical plate by then. I can't be sure of that of course, but I think it's a fair bet given nobody else would be taking it if we found one. So that would be an AC of 18 (plate) +1 (magic) +1 (defense) = 20. Fighter 12 / Barb 1 would have an AC of 10 +5 (con) + 5 (dex) = 20. Now it's quite possible there is some magic a Barbarian could use at this level as well, like Bracers of Defense. The trouble with that is there is serious competition for such a magic item in this party composition - almost every other character could make use of bracers of defense. So, while the Barbarian might have as high as an AC of 22 at this level, it's far less likely I'd guess than the Plate +1 (which nobody else would want).
Bottom line seems to be, the barbarian level is only marginally helpful with AC, if at all helpful. Most of the time I am likely to have the same AC with just straight-fighter. And, though I lose some things by not taking that level of Barbarian, like Rage, I gain swifter advancement to things like a second attack and feats. In terms of ability scores, I lose the benefit to initiative from a higher Dex, the ability to use a range weapon effectively beyond relatively short range, and Dex saves. However I gain the higher wisdom, which gets me things like perception, and most importantly wisdom saves. I also don't have to use ASI's for ability scores as much. I would use one for pumping Con to 20 and Wisdom to 18, though I could just take the Durable feat instead and leave Wisdom at 17 while guaranteeing my hit dice roll max each time, which is pretty sweet.
Thanks guys, this has been instructive. I am sticking with Fighter, and putting the 17 in Wisdom rather than Dex. Which also better matches my character concept. Much appreciated.
It might just be me, but I put my abilities based on what I want my character to be. Do you want him to be charismatic, or smart? I tend away from min-maxing and decide what would make the most fun role playing element
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?