Looking for confirmation, during our campaign we stumbled upon a large encounter that had 8 Mezzoloth. Our GM had 4 of them cast CloudKill centered over our party.
At the start of each party members turn he had us make 4 con saves, but most of us died if we missed even a single save as it was 4 hits of CloudKill. Those that survived were faced with the other 4 Cloudkills being cast over their new location. TPK
The casts of Cloudkill in both occasions were perfectly overlapped. To me it felt like wrong amount of damage we were being dished out and we should have only take a single instance of Cloudkill?
The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don't combine, however. Instead, the most potent effect--such as the highest bonus--from those castings applies while their durations overlap, or the most recent effect applies if the castings are equally potent and their durations overlap.
For example, if two clerics cast bless on the same target, that character gains the spell's benefit only once; he or she doesn't get to roll two bonus dice.
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Well, looks like I was wrong. So no overlapping Spirit Guardians and the like.
Correct. Overlapping spells does have some bonuses to it, in that if a magic user dispels one, the other is still ongoing. Unless the effects are instantaneous, IE some sort of trap that triggers multiple fireballs for instance, then you would only take one instance of the damage if the same spell is in the area multiple times. It's important to understand the application of how this might be with certain spells.
Cloudkill was already discussed, and RAW, you could have 20 of them in the same room, and only take the damage once. Now if you space the areas of effect so that they are completely outside each others range, then you'd be right RAW that when you step out of one and into the new one, it'd be a new save.
Guardian of Faith? Each spell has a unique trigger that states you have to be within 10 feet of the guardian for the effect to trigger. Each guardian is its own casting(similar to cloudkill), and is dealing its own specific effect based on its specific trigger. You could totally walk down a hallway of Guaridans of Faith and just get CLAPPED by all of them on the same turn provided none of their areas of effect overlapped and you walked into each area of effect one by one. If two guardians of faith were cast in the same spot, then you'd only get hit by one of them per the rule stated above.
This is typically more a DM issue than a player one, as players rarely have the time to setup multiple high level spells of the same effect in the same area.
At the start of each party members turn he had us make 4 con saves, but most of us died if we missed even a single save as it was 4 hits of CloudKill. Those that survived were faced with the other 4 Cloudkills being cast over their new location. TPK
I am a bit lost on this. It reads as if on the con saves a character got (as an example) pass, pass, pass, fail, they would still taking the effects of all four castings (20 d8?) instead of just one (5d8) for the single failure.
Even in a pass pass pass fail situation, its 5d8 halfed, 5d8 halfed, 5d8 halfed, and then 5d8. Average on 5d8 is 22.5, so lets just call it 11 on a fail. 33 + 22.5. OP mentions "most of us died even on one fail", which suggests either some pretty strong fatigue due to prior combats, or characters who are around level 3-7. Three of them for a party of 5 at level 7 is still deadly.
Mezzoloths are also pretty bloody strong for what they are. Resistant to cold, fire, lightning; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks, as well as immune to acid and poison. 18 AC, 75 HP, advantage on saves versus magical effects, blindsight to 60 feet, 40 foot move speed. If we go by what CR is and how the DMG grades encounters, this would be a deadly encounter for a party of 5 up to LEVEL 16. Yeah, we can argue about CR all day(but SHOULDN'T, make a new thread if that's the argument), but it's a very strong monster combined with bad rulings equals a TPK.
If I were the DM, honestly, we'd come back next week and have a rewind moment. "Hey guys, I ****ed up. I clearly overtuned the hell out of that encounter, I am willing to rewind and give you another shot."
Thank you for input everyone, we have indeed decided to roll back the encounter.
Tbh its one fight we probably should have fled from anyway as we were missing 2 from our party of 6. But being head strong from early fights that night, and not knowing the dangers of Mezzoloths or why 8 should have been a clear indicator our DM was trying to "educate" us.
For reference on the night we had Monk, Barb, Wizard, Paladin all Level 8, we were missing our Cleric and Artificer.
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Looking for confirmation, during our campaign we stumbled upon a large encounter that had 8 Mezzoloth. Our GM had 4 of them cast CloudKill centered over our party.
At the start of each party members turn he had us make 4 con saves, but most of us died if we missed even a single save as it was 4 hits of CloudKill. Those that survived were faced with the other 4 Cloudkills being cast over their new location. TPK
The casts of Cloudkill in both occasions were perfectly overlapped. To me it felt like wrong amount of damage we were being dished out and we should have only take a single instance of Cloudkill?
There is no reason AoE Damage can't be overlapped.
The encounter does seem horribly stacked against you (just based on the info provided) but not against the rules.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Chapter 10: Spellcasting >> Casting a Spell >> Combining Magical Effects
Link: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/spellcasting#CombiningMagicalEffects
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Well, looks like I was wrong. So no overlapping Spirit Guardians and the like.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Correct. Overlapping spells does have some bonuses to it, in that if a magic user dispels one, the other is still ongoing. Unless the effects are instantaneous, IE some sort of trap that triggers multiple fireballs for instance, then you would only take one instance of the damage if the same spell is in the area multiple times. It's important to understand the application of how this might be with certain spells.
Cloudkill was already discussed, and RAW, you could have 20 of them in the same room, and only take the damage once. Now if you space the areas of effect so that they are completely outside each others range, then you'd be right RAW that when you step out of one and into the new one, it'd be a new save.
Guardian of Faith? Each spell has a unique trigger that states you have to be within 10 feet of the guardian for the effect to trigger. Each guardian is its own casting(similar to cloudkill), and is dealing its own specific effect based on its specific trigger. You could totally walk down a hallway of Guaridans of Faith and just get CLAPPED by all of them on the same turn provided none of their areas of effect overlapped and you walked into each area of effect one by one. If two guardians of faith were cast in the same spot, then you'd only get hit by one of them per the rule stated above.
This is typically more a DM issue than a player one, as players rarely have the time to setup multiple high level spells of the same effect in the same area.
Sorry that your party died due to bad rulings.
If you want to kill something with overlap, it has to be different spells.
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Even in a pass pass pass fail situation, its 5d8 halfed, 5d8 halfed, 5d8 halfed, and then 5d8. Average on 5d8 is 22.5, so lets just call it 11 on a fail. 33 + 22.5. OP mentions "most of us died even on one fail", which suggests either some pretty strong fatigue due to prior combats, or characters who are around level 3-7. Three of them for a party of 5 at level 7 is still deadly.
Mezzoloths are also pretty bloody strong for what they are. Resistant to cold, fire, lightning; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks, as well as immune to acid and poison. 18 AC, 75 HP, advantage on saves versus magical effects, blindsight to 60 feet, 40 foot move speed. If we go by what CR is and how the DMG grades encounters, this would be a deadly encounter for a party of 5 up to LEVEL 16. Yeah, we can argue about CR all day(but SHOULDN'T, make a new thread if that's the argument), but it's a very strong monster combined with bad rulings equals a TPK.
If I were the DM, honestly, we'd come back next week and have a rewind moment. "Hey guys, I ****ed up. I clearly overtuned the hell out of that encounter, I am willing to rewind and give you another shot."
Thank you for input everyone, we have indeed decided to roll back the encounter.
Tbh its one fight we probably should have fled from anyway as we were missing 2 from our party of 6. But being head strong from early fights that night, and not knowing the dangers of Mezzoloths or why 8 should have been a clear indicator our DM was trying to "educate" us.
For reference on the night we had Monk, Barb, Wizard, Paladin all Level 8, we were missing our Cleric and Artificer.