So i have a player that has vampirism and whenever they take slashing damage(or any type of attack that would render the cloaks protection useless) their cloak is damaged and they start taking 20 radiant damage per turn, but the player is arguing that part of that damage if not all of the damage should be fire damage because the sun burns vampires(they have a lesser staff of flames that gives them resistance to fire damage)
I mean i feel like its a reasonable weakness considering that when your a vampire you get a 18 in Str, Dex, and Con We removed regeneration from his vampire ability list because it makes him heal 20 dmg per turn unless he is in running water or in the sun Yes these are all the things that happen when you become a vampire, you also get a very good bite attack that heals you
So is the player right on this or should i just stick to the rules?
For context the player became a vampire because they decided it would be a good idea to split up from the group in a vampires layer and they just happened to stumble into the vampires layer alone and got absolutely drained by the vampire and then the party came and beat the vampire after they explored the rest of the layer(my players greatly despises meta gaming) because they would not know that their friend was being turned into a vampire and according to the rules he is now a free vampire, he is not a true vampire so he cant create vampire spawn though.
Edit: before anyone reports me saying i should of put this in Dungeon Masters Only, I also want the opinion of players on this so when you reply please state if your a player,DM, or both
The short answer is Radiant damage. Radiant damage can also burn you, just like acid can also burn you, just like cold can burn you. Fire does not have a monopoly on damage that burns and consumes.
As an example, a Solar Dragon, that is dragon and sun incarnate, deal Radiant damage with its breath weapon.
Photonic Breath (Recharge 5–6). The dragon exhales a flashing mote of radiant energy that travels to a point the dragon can see within 180 feet of itself, then blossoms into a 30-foot-radius sphere centered on that point. Each creature in the sphere must make a DC 19 Constitution saving throw, taking 55 (10d10) radiant damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The Vampire stat sheet lists the following under Sunlight Hypersensitivity:
Sunlight Hypersensitivity.The vampire takes 20 radiant damage when it starts its turn in sunlight. While in sunlight, it has disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks.
Based on this write up, the game developers conclude that sunlight causes radiant damage. It should also be noted that damage types like Acid, Lightning, Radiant, and even Cold could be described as having an effect that burns a character. There is no defined burn damage in the game.
Radiant Damage, but even more so Fire is caused by rapid oxidation, so you are burned by the heat generated by Oxygen. Meanwhile sunburns are caused by solar radiation, your cells being damaged by radiation.
Fire = Heat from Oxygen
Radiant = Heat like damage from partial radiation.
This is why you can get acid burns, and freezer burns, the damage is similar to being burned, but the cause of the burn is very different. Vampires are weak to Radiation specifically Ultraviolet photons. Which is why they can be is a bright room that is fire lit, but not a room lit by any Light Spells. You would think the designers of D&D vampires might have been aware of Photons and Radiation when designing these things.
My question would be, how well would D&D handle other types of radiation, and would Vampires be weak to those? α, β, γ, and X
It doesn't really matter what kind of damage the sun causes, vampires specifically take radiant damage when exposed to sunlight. There's no arguing that point.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Have him look up the Sun Blade. Damage from the planet's sun is radiant, not fire.
When a Vampire is in sunlight the vampire's Sunlight Hypersensitivity trait reads (s)he takes radiant damage, not fire.
Lastly, point out that nowhere does it state that the sun "burns" the vampire. Nor does the Sunlight Hypersensitivity state "unless the vampire is covered by a cloak".
Thats fair but we got the logic that a cloak is enough from vampire movies were a curtain over a window is enough to block it, but glass does not I know it does not say that in DnD but vamires are also pop culture and if the book does not provide a clear answer then i turn to movies and shows
It's your game so do what you want to do. But, in this case, the book does provide a clear answer. And if the player didn't have an item that gives fire resistance then he probably wouldn't be making this argument that it should be fire instead of radiant damage.
Also, in pop culture UV protective glass and sunscreen will protect a vampire. He needs to make friends with an Artificer.
In pop culture, vampires can be killed by reflected sunlight. Any number of vampires have met their end via mirrors.
But all light is reflected sunlight. So basically, even if you're ok with a cloak blocking sunlight - you still need sunlight to see. Hence, the eyes cannot be covered, and thus will be burned. Which is sure to be a problem.
But then, I would never allow a vampire PC. So I'd just throw the book at them. So ... maybe don't mind me =)
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
In pop culture, vampires can be killed by reflected sunlight. Any number of vampires have met their end via mirrors.
But all light is reflected sunlight. So basically, even if you're ok with a cloak blocking sunlight - you still need sunlight to see. Hence, the eyes cannot be covered, and thus will be burned. Which is sure to be a problem.
But then, I would never allow a vampire PC. So I'd just throw the book at them. So ... maybe don't mind me =)
The reflection part brings up the interesting point that what we perceive as moonlight is actually just the sun reflecting off the moon so really vampires should also be bursting into flames at night under the moon
In pop culture, vampires can be killed by reflected sunlight. Any number of vampires have met their end via mirrors.
But all light is reflected sunlight. So basically, even if you're ok with a cloak blocking sunlight - you still need sunlight to see. Hence, the eyes cannot be covered, and thus will be burned. Which is sure to be a problem.
But then, I would never allow a vampire PC. So I'd just throw the book at them. So ... maybe don't mind me =)
The reflection part brings up the interesting point that what we perceive as moonlight is actually just the sun reflecting off the moon so really vampires should also be bursting into flames at night under the moon
In real myth the reason light from mirrors, and why mirrors don't show vampire reflections isn't because of reflected light but rather because mirrors were made using silver which was considered a "pure" element in magic. Same reason why silver harmed werewolves. Originally silver harmed vampires too like it did werewolves.
It doesn't really translate well into D&D, especially since the silver thing got mostly forgotten about for vampires. But hey ho.
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In real myth the reason light from mirrors, and why mirrors don't show vampire reflections isn't because of reflected light but rather because mirrors were made using silver which was considered a "pure" element in magic. Same reason why silver harmed werewolves. Originally silver harmed vampires too like it did werewolves.
It doesn't really translate well into D&D, especially since the silver thing got mostly forgotten about for vampires. But hey ho.
I'm sure you're right. But ... in pop culture, I'm ... well, fairly sure it's just because they're reflective =D
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Since everyone’s already answered the Radiant = Radiation = Burn ≠ Fire thing, I have one more thing to add to the conversation.
You are the DM, if the players says it’s fire damage, but you say it’s radiant, it’s radiant. If you say the burning is cold damage, it’s cold damage. As the DM you get the final call on literally everything, and if your players disagree with you, then that literally doesn’t matter, it’s your call.
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So i have a player that has vampirism and whenever they take slashing damage(or any type of attack that would render the cloaks protection useless) their cloak is damaged and they start taking 20 radiant damage per turn, but the player is arguing that part of that damage if not all of the damage should be fire damage because the sun burns vampires(they have a lesser staff of flames that gives them resistance to fire damage)
I mean i feel like its a reasonable weakness considering that when your a vampire you get a 18 in Str, Dex, and Con
We removed regeneration from his vampire ability list because it makes him heal 20 dmg per turn unless he is in running water or in the sun
Yes these are all the things that happen when you become a vampire, you also get a very good bite attack that heals you
So is the player right on this or should i just stick to the rules?
For context the player became a vampire because they decided it would be a good idea to split up from the group in a vampires layer and they just happened to stumble into the vampires layer alone and got absolutely drained by the vampire and then the party came and beat the vampire after they explored the rest of the layer(my players greatly despises meta gaming) because they would not know that their friend was being turned into a vampire and according to the rules he is now a free vampire, he is not a true vampire so he cant create vampire spawn though.
Edit: before anyone reports me saying i should of put this in Dungeon Masters Only, I also want the opinion of players on this so when you reply please state if your a player,DM, or both
The short answer is Radiant damage. Radiant damage can also burn you, just like acid can also burn you, just like cold can burn you. Fire does not have a monopoly on damage that burns and consumes.
As an example, a Solar Dragon, that is dragon and sun incarnate, deal Radiant damage with its breath weapon.
The thing that causes damage is sunlight. That's radiant. The fact that it looks like burning is just cosmetic.
Allright, thanks for the info guys, hopefuly the guy can see the same logic as you.
Sunbeam causes Radiant Damage. I think that would be conclusive enough for me.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The Vampire stat sheet lists the following under Sunlight Hypersensitivity:
Based on this write up, the game developers conclude that sunlight causes radiant damage. It should also be noted that damage types like Acid, Lightning, Radiant, and even Cold could be described as having an effect that burns a character. There is no defined burn damage in the game.
yeah, thats what i was basing my logic on and he player is a stubborn fellow, and i was seeing if everyonne agreed with me
Radiant Damage, but even more so Fire is caused by rapid oxidation, so you are burned by the heat generated by Oxygen. Meanwhile sunburns are caused by solar radiation, your cells being damaged by radiation.
Fire = Heat from Oxygen
Radiant = Heat like damage from partial radiation.
This is why you can get acid burns, and freezer burns, the damage is similar to being burned, but the cause of the burn is very different. Vampires are weak to Radiation specifically Ultraviolet photons. Which is why they can be is a bright room that is fire lit, but not a room lit by any Light Spells. You would think the designers of D&D vampires might have been aware of Photons and Radiation when designing these things.
My question would be, how well would D&D handle other types of radiation, and would Vampires be weak to those? α, β, γ, and X
It doesn't really matter what kind of damage the sun causes, vampires specifically take radiant damage when exposed to sunlight. There's no arguing that point.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Have him look up the Sun Blade. Damage from the planet's sun is radiant, not fire.
When a Vampire is in sunlight the vampire's Sunlight Hypersensitivity trait reads (s)he takes radiant damage, not fire.
Lastly, point out that nowhere does it state that the sun "burns" the vampire. Nor does the Sunlight Hypersensitivity state "unless the vampire is covered by a cloak".
Thats fair but we got the logic that a cloak is enough from vampire movies were a curtain over a window is enough to block it, but glass does not
I know it does not say that in DnD but vamires are also pop culture and if the book does not provide a clear answer then i turn to movies and shows
It's your game so do what you want to do. But, in this case, the book does provide a clear answer. And if the player didn't have an item that gives fire resistance then he probably wouldn't be making this argument that it should be fire instead of radiant damage.
Also, in pop culture UV protective glass and sunscreen will protect a vampire. He needs to make friends with an Artificer.
In pop culture, vampires can be killed by reflected sunlight. Any number of vampires have met their end via mirrors.
But all light is reflected sunlight. So basically, even if you're ok with a cloak blocking sunlight - you still need sunlight to see. Hence, the eyes cannot be covered, and thus will be burned. Which is sure to be a problem.
But then, I would never allow a vampire PC. So I'd just throw the book at them. So ... maybe don't mind me =)
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
The reflection part brings up the interesting point that what we perceive as moonlight is actually just the sun reflecting off the moon so really vampires should also be bursting into flames at night under the moon
In real myth the reason light from mirrors, and why mirrors don't show vampire reflections isn't because of reflected light but rather because mirrors were made using silver which was considered a "pure" element in magic. Same reason why silver harmed werewolves. Originally silver harmed vampires too like it did werewolves.
It doesn't really translate well into D&D, especially since the silver thing got mostly forgotten about for vampires. But hey ho.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I'm sure you're right. But ... in pop culture, I'm ... well, fairly sure it's just because they're reflective =D
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
The myth I heard is that mirrors reflect your soul and the vampire doesn't have one.
As far as the reason Dracula is repelled by a cross and silver burns him is because his story is based on Christian lore.
Since everyone’s already answered the Radiant = Radiation = Burn ≠ Fire thing, I have one more thing to add to the conversation.
You are the DM, if the players says it’s fire damage, but you say it’s radiant, it’s radiant. If you say the burning is cold damage, it’s cold damage. As the DM you get the final call on literally everything, and if your players disagree with you, then that literally doesn’t matter, it’s your call.