I am new to D&D - playing my first campaign at the moment.
Unfortunately that group is having frequent scheduling issues & it's bugging me to the point I am looking for another group.
A DM I do not know contacted me about a paid campaign they are running (details below).
What questions should I ask them in order to figure out whether £10 per 3hr session is worth it?
That's $12.50USD/session
Details provided by the DM:
Game: D&D 5e Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign Group type: Online, using Dnd Beyond with AboveVTT Chrome plugin for VTT and Discord for voice. Experience: I am an experienced DM who has run this module previously. I'm accepting players of all experience levels but ask for ages 21+ since I'm an old fogey who first played D&D in 1981. I'm currently DMing a face to face group and also a play by forum campaign.
Roles sought: Seeking 4-6 players, long term commitment, long term fun! Game style: We will be playing the WotC published adventure Princes of the Apocalypse, which has an old school, sandboxy feel with many choices of path to tread to move the adventure forwards. Game style will be gritty (as far as possible in the Forgotten Realms) using variant encumbrance, slower natural healing rules, short rests limited to two per day. I ask for no exotic races for initial character choices, just standard four PHB races plus half-elf. Character death - although undesirable for anyone including me, I'm on your side, honest - is a possibility, particularly at early levels, you'll be expected to bring in a back up character in the event of your first character suffering an untimely demise. Do not apply if this is likely to upset you to the point it spoils your fun!
Cost: This is a paid campaign charging £10 per player per session - reducing £1 after every 10 sessions for loyalty down to a minimum £5.
I cannot speak to your underlying question, since worth is relative and I have never paid for a campaign.
But I did want to point out that constantly repeating “I am an old school DM” should be read as “I am from an era of D&D that was much more player versus dungeon master, not a cooperative storytelling effort”, especially with the requirement to always have a backup character.
That’s not bad, per se, but it is a very different type of experience than many players are looking for. I would proceed with caution if you are looking for a fun, story-driven campaign, and give this one a pass.
I will say that $12.50USD/session is pretty generous for a paid game so you don’t have much to lose.
Oh really? I was told by a friend that it was a bit steep.
Personally, I'd spend that amount on stupid things and not care, so if it's for a D&D session that I'm enjoying then it's far better spent.
If you round up, for a 3-hour session that DM is making $4.17/hour per player
Assuming they can reliably get 4 players, that’s $16.67/hour or about $50 made for the entire session.
If the DM can swing this every weeknight and one weekend day, that’s $300/week, $1200/month, or $14,400/year (assuming no cancellations/dropouts, the DM doesn’t get sick, etc.).
For comparison, the average expenses per month for a family of two in the US in 2020 was $5,111/mo or $61,334/year.
Of course, this is all assuming we’re looking at “professional” DM’s who are trying to make a living from running games. I’d say the player is the one making out like a bandit in this circumstance.
Just my perspective! Value is of course highly subjective.
I'd be wary of a [REDACTED] DM you don't know with no trial. Virtually every Legacy DM I've played with hasn't actually switched to 5E, and keeps trying to artifact older editions and classically popular homebrews like fumble tables which are regularly obnoxious and frustrating. If there are any local hobby shops in your area, I'd search for games in person so you can actually experience D&D, rather than try to make it work online.
The mention of "variant encumbrance, slower natural healing rules, short rests limited to two per day." will give a new player a poor view of the normal pace of a 5E adventure/campaign.
The mention of "variant encumbrance, slower natural healing rules, short rests limited to two per day." will give a new player a poor view of the normal pace of a 5E adventure/campaign.
i agree. these aren't bad rules by themselves. but they are definitely a lot more challenging for newer players that havent gotten the hang of regular 5e play.
The first thing I would do is to figure out if the campaign itself is for you. The GM might be fantastic but if the story itself doesn't tickle your fancy you might not have a good time. Read spoiler-free reviews and ask the GM what they think the campaign is about so that you are both on the same level.
Some things that you will want answers to, when it comes to the GM:
The rules. Everything from what classes and races are allowed, multiclassing and feats, any house rules or optional rules. All things like that so that you know what to expect when it comes to the gameplay.
Session zero and the gaming group. How does the GM decide who can play, will you get the chance to talk through character concepts and things like that.
How long is the campaign estimated to take? If you pay per the hour, will the GM try to drag things out or just speed you through everything? What can you expect from an average gaming session?
What does the GM want out of the campaign, what's their take on it? This goes back a bit to what I mentioned about finding out if you'd enjoy the campaign but also to see if what you want is what you're actually going to get. If you interpret the campaign to be more of a fantasy horror game but the GM wants it to be a blood-soaked comedic romp through hordes of foes you might be disappointed.
In general, I don't neccesarily think that "old school" is bad but it might be a playing style that that isn't for everyone. Also, if you fell that you aren't getting honest answers, it's usually a red flag. If you get honest answers but it's answers you don't agree with (like limitations to ccharacter creation or themes for the campaign) then you need to think it through if you think it will still be worth your time and money.
I'd also definateliy ask for a first time freebie, even a shorter session or discount, just to gauge the reaction.
The mention of "variant encumbrance, slower natural healing rules, short rests limited to two per day." will give a new player a poor view of the normal pace of a 5E adventure/campaign.
The normal pace for a 5e game is to have characters go from farmer to demigod in the space of a few weeks. That is to say, the normal standard could use some pacing work.
I can't help but also think that a standard "normal" kind of misses the whole point of any creative endeavour. D&D isn't just about players being murder hobos. The DM is a player too and they have a right to express themselves through the game world, just as much as any of the PCs.
Been playing D&D since its beginning, 30+ years and counting...have never paid for a single session. I guess the closest I have come to paying was by attending local gaming cons but the cost was for the entry fee. I try to run my games at the table and feel that it is meant for everyone to play and have fun so I am not comfortable paying for that.
I think someone's idea of value is important but I would suggest finding a way to play at the table as they typically do not charge for a game session, but that is my experience.
I would ignore it like the plague. Pay to play is a travesty at best. The limitations here such as the slow healing and max number of rests etc are bad enough, but the restriction of only choosing from 5 races in the players hand book is ridiculous. It suggests the dm only owns that book. Another point is that people who were around back in the 80’s like me don’t actually call ourselves ’old school’. Most of us have happily embraced the delight of 5e. The only people who do are generally those with an axe to grind and usually are playing what they imagine is ‘old school’ - there was no such thing as a short rest mechanic and the current slow healing rules did not exist - which should tell you something about how accurate this dm’s version of old school actually is.
There are plenty of free games out there, or better yet start your own. Never pay to play.
It depends. I run a pay to play campaign because I have to pay $25/week for the room that we play in. I ask everyone to chip in what they can if they can afford it. Most weeks I walk out with a couple of bucks, but some weeks I don’t get enough to cover the room rent. But it all averages out.
I've only ever paid for 1 campaign. That was at $10 a session and I was in it for about 5-6months. Looking back I regret it.
The DM knew the rules like the back of their hand, the maps, tokens and music etc were top notch, but the story itself was a bit lack luster. I felt like we were just going through the motions. It was their job...
My current DM I've been in a campaign with for about a year and she is amazing. Her passion is D&D and dming and despite not being as experienced or as refined as the paid for DM, she is way better in my opinon.
Game style: ...I ask for no exotic races for initial character choices, just standard four PHB races plus half-elf. ...
Unless you are on "old school" player, you won't know which of the 9 standard PC races in the PHB is being referred to by the term "four PHB races plus half-elf".
Edit: Perhaps they are thinking of the original four classes that were available in the first version of D&D ;-)
Hi all,
I am new to D&D - playing my first campaign at the moment.
Unfortunately that group is having frequent scheduling issues & it's bugging me to the point I am looking for another group.
A DM I do not know contacted me about a paid campaign they are running (details below).
What questions should I ask them in order to figure out whether £10 per 3hr session is worth it?
That's $12.50USD/session
Details provided by the DM:
Game: D&D 5e Princes of the Apocalypse Campaign
Group type: Online, using Dnd Beyond with AboveVTT Chrome plugin for VTT and Discord for voice.
Experience: I am an experienced DM who has run this module previously. I'm accepting players of all experience levels but ask for ages 21+ since I'm an old fogey who first played D&D in 1981. I'm currently DMing a face to face group and also a play by forum campaign.
Roles sought: Seeking 4-6 players, long term commitment, long term fun!
Game style: We will be playing the WotC published adventure Princes of the Apocalypse, which has an old school, sandboxy feel with many choices of path to tread to move the adventure forwards. Game style will be gritty (as far as possible in the Forgotten Realms) using variant encumbrance, slower natural healing rules, short rests limited to two per day. I ask for no exotic races for initial character choices, just standard four PHB races plus half-elf. Character death - although undesirable for anyone including me, I'm on your side, honest - is a possibility, particularly at early levels, you'll be expected to bring in a back up character in the event of your first character suffering an untimely demise. Do not apply if this is likely to upset you to the point it spoils your fun!
Cost: This is a paid campaign charging £10 per player per session - reducing £1 after every 10 sessions for loyalty down to a minimum £5.
I cannot speak to your underlying question, since worth is relative and I have never paid for a campaign.
But I did want to point out that constantly repeating “I am an old school DM” should be read as “I am from an era of D&D that was much more player versus dungeon master, not a cooperative storytelling effort”, especially with the requirement to always have a backup character.
That’s not bad, per se, but it is a very different type of experience than many players are looking for. I would proceed with caution if you are looking for a fun, story-driven campaign, and give this one a pass.
Hmmm..
I am not sure if I do or do not want that, lol
Not sure if it matters, but I will miss the earlier sessions and am told there will be room for me to jump in at level 3 in a couple of short weeks.
EDIT: I say this as the DM said that death might happen "particularly at the lower levels".
While level 3 is low, it's not lvl 1 - my Ranger has 25HP and 13AC at this level
See about the first session you join being free, to see if you can get a taste of the DM's style/see if it'd be worth the money.
There are hundreds of Paid/Free games to be found, most offering a free first session to see if people mesh etc.
Otherwise, keep looking, either for free, or if you don't mind paying, a paid game.
Yeah, good idea!
I was going to see if I can at least watch part of a session to get a feel without impacting the campaign.
Thanks for the input
I will say that $12.50USD/session is pretty generous for a paid game so you don’t have much to lose.
Oh really?
I was told by a friend that it was a bit steep.
Personally, I'd spend that amount on stupid things and not care, so if it's for a D&D session that I'm enjoying then it's far better spent.
If you round up, for a 3-hour session that DM is making $4.17/hour per player
Assuming they can reliably get 4 players, that’s $16.67/hour or about $50 made for the entire session.
If the DM can swing this every weeknight and one weekend day, that’s $300/week, $1200/month, or $14,400/year (assuming no cancellations/dropouts, the DM doesn’t get sick, etc.).
For comparison, the average expenses per month for a family of two in the US in 2020 was $5,111/mo or $61,334/year.
Of course, this is all assuming we’re looking at “professional” DM’s who are trying to make a living from running games. I’d say the player is the one making out like a bandit in this circumstance.
Just my perspective! Value is of course highly subjective.
I'd be wary of a [REDACTED] DM you don't know with no trial. Virtually every Legacy DM I've played with hasn't actually switched to 5E, and keeps trying to artifact older editions and classically popular homebrews like fumble tables which are regularly obnoxious and frustrating. If there are any local hobby shops in your area, I'd search for games in person so you can actually experience D&D, rather than try to make it work online.
The mention of "variant encumbrance, slower natural healing rules, short rests limited to two per day." will give a new player a poor view of the normal pace of a 5E adventure/campaign.
i agree. these aren't bad rules by themselves. but they are definitely a lot more challenging for newer players that havent gotten the hang of regular 5e play.
Thanks for the replies everyone.
I'm taking it all onboard.
I'll be chatting with a few of the players at his table during the week, so I'll get a feel for it then.
The first thing I would do is to figure out if the campaign itself is for you. The GM might be fantastic but if the story itself doesn't tickle your fancy you might not have a good time. Read spoiler-free reviews and ask the GM what they think the campaign is about so that you are both on the same level.
Some things that you will want answers to, when it comes to the GM:
In general, I don't neccesarily think that "old school" is bad but it might be a playing style that that isn't for everyone. Also, if you fell that you aren't getting honest answers, it's usually a red flag. If you get honest answers but it's answers you don't agree with (like limitations to ccharacter creation or themes for the campaign) then you need to think it through if you think it will still be worth your time and money.
I'd also definateliy ask for a first time freebie, even a shorter session or discount, just to gauge the reaction.
Thanks for the reply mate. Some good points in there.
The normal pace for a 5e game is to have characters go from farmer to demigod in the space of a few weeks. That is to say, the normal standard could use some pacing work.
I can't help but also think that a standard "normal" kind of misses the whole point of any creative endeavour. D&D isn't just about players being murder hobos. The DM is a player too and they have a right to express themselves through the game world, just as much as any of the PCs.
Been playing D&D since its beginning, 30+ years and counting...have never paid for a single session. I guess the closest I have come to paying was by attending local gaming cons but the cost was for the entry fee. I try to run my games at the table and feel that it is meant for everyone to play and have fun so I am not comfortable paying for that.
I think someone's idea of value is important but I would suggest finding a way to play at the table as they typically do not charge for a game session, but that is my experience.
I would ignore it like the plague. Pay to play is a travesty at best. The limitations here such as the slow healing and max number of rests etc are bad enough, but the restriction of only choosing from 5 races in the players hand book is ridiculous. It suggests the dm only owns that book. Another point is that people who were around back in the 80’s like me don’t actually call ourselves ’old school’. Most of us have happily embraced the delight of 5e. The only people who do are generally those with an axe to grind and usually are playing what they imagine is ‘old school’ - there was no such thing as a short rest mechanic and the current slow healing rules did not exist - which should tell you something about how accurate this dm’s version of old school actually is.
There are plenty of free games out there, or better yet start your own. Never pay to play.
It depends. I run a pay to play campaign because I have to pay $25/week for the room that we play in. I ask everyone to chip in what they can if they can afford it. Most weeks I walk out with a couple of bucks, but some weeks I don’t get enough to cover the room rent. But it all averages out.
Professional computer geek
I've only ever paid for 1 campaign. That was at $10 a session and I was in it for about 5-6months. Looking back I regret it.
The DM knew the rules like the back of their hand, the maps, tokens and music etc were top notch, but the story itself was a bit lack luster. I felt like we were just going through the motions. It was their job...
My current DM I've been in a campaign with for about a year and she is amazing. Her passion is D&D and dming and despite not being as experienced or as refined as the paid for DM, she is way better in my opinon.
Unless you are on "old school" player, you won't know which of the 9 standard PC races in the PHB is being referred to by the term "four PHB races plus half-elf".
Edit: Perhaps they are thinking of the original four classes that were available in the first version of D&D ;-)