Yo! iv been hearing alot of people say that the new 2024PHB only works on the 2024PHB and isnt backwards compatible anymore. theres also been alot of people saying it is backwards compatible. so can anyone give me a real answer? was it officaly made backwards compatible or is it trying to override old rules and "erase" the older subclasses?
anyone from the DnDbeyond team id love an answer please when you get the time
I would guess it is a new book with a new or variable set of rules.
You can very much continue to use your 5e phb. I think the only issue you would have is if you want to get into WOTC new 3D VTT they have coming.
the only issues im really getting from this are classes/subclasses/spells besides me just working them to be interchangeable would a 2014 paladin work in a 2024 game? or a 2024 paladin work in a 2014 game? (goes for any class just the one i picked) will a player be able to pick which spell version the used if say the shield was nerfed super hard to only work on the one attack and not until your next turn?
How do you define "backwards compatible?" It's often used as a buzzword around here so it's probably best if we focus specifically on what you want/don't want to see.
the way i saw the new PHB was more of updated options and not taking over old ruleings and stuff. i saw the new PHB as something like tashas optional class rules
the way i saw the new PHB was more of updated options and not taking over old ruleings and stuff. i saw the new PHB as something like tashas optional class rules
They had to overwrite some of the old rules though. For example, 2024 Surprise just does not work alongside 2014 Surprise, 2024 Inspiration and Exhaustion and Drawing Weapons don't work alongside 2014 etc. If your expectation was that you could just smoosh both books together and have a coherent system, then you're going to be disappointed. You will have to do some of your own work to determine which rules you want to keep from each system and which to not use.
The new PHB is a new PHB, with a (technically, but not extensively) new ruleset. The core attributes and skills and "ways of doing things" are still the same.
I think the ideas are:
You can use any of the old 2014-era adventures/campaigns with the 2024 rules. At most you may need to update some monster stats to match CRs.
You can make a 2014 character work in a 2024 game (though they might not play as "well" as you'd like next to 2024 content). This could include a 2014 class/race/subclass, but probably shouldn't mix-and-match 2014 and 2024 stuff in the same character (like using a 2014 class with a 2024 subsclass).
You probably can't really make a 2024 character work in a 2014 game, since the 2024 rules framework has been updated with new/better language that 2024 characters would depend upon.
Basically all of this is DM advice; if your DM says "no 2014 content in my 2024 campaign" you can't, like, force something in anyway.
The new books will have guidelines about all of this, in greater detail.
You can’t make a rules update perfectly backwards compatible by definition, but pretty much everything that has its own category section on D&DB (races, classes, feats, spells, etc) should be functionally interchangeable between the 2014 and 2024 rules. Probably a few odds and ends that would require some on the spot patching by a DM, but it’s not like shifting from 3.5 to 5e where you’d still need to basically just use the original as a reference point while you build from scratch.
You can’t make a rules update perfectly backwards compatible by definition, but pretty much everything that has its own category section on D&DB (races, classes, feats, spells, etc) should be functionally interchangeable between the 2014 and 2024 rules. Probably a few odds and ends that would require some on the spot patching by a DM, but it’s not like shifting from 3.5 to 5e where you’d still need to basically just use the original as a reference point while you build from scratch.
as long as alot of it is relatively interchangeable then id consider that ok
I want to know if I can use Pre-2024 subclasses with the 2024 classes on here. Crawford mentioned guidance on how to implement prior subclasses to 2024 classes in the book, but will it be supported on this website? This is huge to me--I don't wanna buy the new PHB until I know I'm able to throw a Pre-2024 subclass onto the 2024 class template.
I'm imagining this won't work and I'm not holding my breath, but here's to hoping
I want to know if I can use Pre-2024 subclasses with the 2024 classes on here. Crawford mentioned guidance on how to implement prior subclasses to 2024 classes in the book, but will it be supported on this website? This is huge to me--I don't wanna buy the new PHB until I know I'm able to throw a Pre-2024 subclass onto the 2024 class template.
I'm imagining this won't work and I'm not holding my breath, but here's to hoping
I want to know if I can use Pre-2024 subclasses with the 2024 classes on here. Crawford mentioned guidance on how to implement prior subclasses to 2024 classes in the book, but will it be supported on this website? This is huge to me--I don't wanna buy the new PHB until I know I'm able to throw a Pre-2024 subclass onto the 2024 class template.
I'm imagining this won't work and I'm not holding my breath, but here's to hoping
I expect you'll have to homebrew it.
Honestly that won’t be the end of the world. More work for me but if I can mix and match I won’t care. As long as they don’t paywall gate homebrew as rumored.
I want to know if I can use Pre-2024 subclasses with the 2024 classes on here. Crawford mentioned guidance on how to implement prior subclasses to 2024 classes in the book, but will it be supported on this website? This is huge to me--I don't wanna buy the new PHB until I know I'm able to throw a Pre-2024 subclass onto the 2024 class template.
I'm imagining this won't work and I'm not holding my breath, but here's to hoping
I expect you'll have to homebrew it.
Honestly that won’t be the end of the world. More work for me but if I can mix and match I won’t care. As long as they don’t paywall gate homebrew as rumored.
To the best of my knowledge, that "rumor" comes entirely from people catastrophizing in the wake of dropping piecemeal purchasing.
I can't say they won't do it, but it seems very unlikely. The homebrew tools exist as a direct offshoot of the tools needed for entering the official game content. Those tools must continue to exist, and the vast majority of games need to homebrew something.
I want to know if I can use Pre-2024 subclasses with the 2024 classes on here. Crawford mentioned guidance on how to implement prior subclasses to 2024 classes in the book, but will it be supported on this website? This is huge to me--I don't wanna buy the new PHB until I know I'm able to throw a Pre-2024 subclass onto the 2024 class template.
I'm imagining this won't work and I'm not holding my breath, but here's to hoping
I expect you'll have to homebrew it.
Honestly that won’t be the end of the world. More work for me but if I can mix and match I won’t care. As long as they don’t paywall gate homebrew as rumored.
To the best of my knowledge, that "rumor" comes entirely from people catastrophizing in the wake of dropping piecemeal purchasing.
I can't say they won't do it, but it seems very unlikely. The homebrew tools exist as a direct offshoot of the tools needed for entering the official game content. Those tools must continue to exist, and the vast majority of games need to homebrew something.
Just like the "rumors" back when TBoMT dropped with no piecemeal.
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CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
Honestly that won’t be the end of the world. More work for me but if I can mix and match I won’t care. As long as they don’t paywall gate homebrew as rumored.
To the best of my knowledge, that "rumor" comes entirely from people catastrophizing in the wake of dropping piecemeal purchasing.
I can't say they won't do it, but it seems very unlikely. The homebrew tools exist as a direct offshoot of the tools needed for entering the official game content. Those tools must continue to exist, and the vast majority of games need to homebrew something.
Just like the "rumors" back when TBoMT dropped with no piecemeal.
That speculation was based on an actual thing that happened.
There has been absolutely nothing to indicate they're doing anything to homebrew. They haven't changed it in the slightest.
Honestly that won’t be the end of the world. More work for me but if I can mix and match I won’t care. As long as they don’t paywall gate homebrew as rumored.
To the best of my knowledge, that "rumor" comes entirely from people catastrophizing in the wake of dropping piecemeal purchasing.
I can't say they won't do it, but it seems very unlikely. The homebrew tools exist as a direct offshoot of the tools needed for entering the official game content. Those tools must continue to exist, and the vast majority of games need to homebrew something.
Just like the "rumors" back when TBoMT dropped with no piecemeal.
That speculation was based on an actual thing that happened.
There has been absolutely nothing to indicate they're doing anything to homebrew. They haven't changed it in the slightest.
That just depends on how limited the data set one chooses to use in their speculation, there was nothing to indicate the changes to the market place. Black swans and all.
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CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
So actually getting back on topic, some more details have been released regarding the backwards compatibility. Basically short answer, yes, you can use 2014 subclasses with the 2024 base classes. Yes, you can play a 2014 character with 2024 characters, but, in such cases you use the 2024 core rules.
For more details you can read these two articles: Backwards compatibility and Subclasses. Otherwise you can also watch the video by Nerd Immersion, where Ted breaks down the articles in more detail.
Same question specifically re DnD Beyond- a lot of what I've seen is like, you have "permission" to use character features from 2014, but will it be possible on the DDB website? Like if we're mid-campaign, playing 2014 rules, if a character levels up after September 17 do all their class features now follow the new rules or will there be a toggle button or something along the lines of the current "optional class features" so we can stay consistent with how we started?
The new PHB is a new PHB, with a (technically, but not extensively) new ruleset. The core attributes and skills and "ways of doing things" are still the same.
I think the ideas are:
You can use any of the old 2014-era adventures/campaigns with the 2024 rules. At most you may need to update some monster stats to match CRs.
You can make a 2014 character work in a 2024 game (though they might not play as "well" as you'd like next to 2024 content). This could include a 2014 class/race/subclass, but probably shouldn't mix-and-match 2014 and 2024 stuff in the same character (like using a 2014 class with a 2024 subsclass).
You probably can't really make a 2024 character work in a 2014 game, since the 2024 rules framework has been updated with new/better language that 2024 characters would depend upon.
Basically all of this is DM advice; if your DM says "no 2014 content in my 2024 campaign" you can't, like, force something in anyway.
The new books will have guidelines about all of this, in greater detail.
So here's the reality.
The 2014 - 2024 content was balanced around the 2014 rules. You can totally play a 2024 character in content from 2014 but it's going to be stronger than was designed. None of the 2014 content was balanced around weapon masteries, barbarians being able to sustain rages with bonus actions, etc etc. The "ideal" is to use Monsters of the Multiverse for monsters in scenarios because 5th has slowly been re-balanced around concepts introduced in Xanathar and Tasha but if you only had the original monster manual, that's fine.
You can make older subclasses work within 2024 main class guidelines, but it's not recommended to go the other way because the balancing of new subclasses is around the 2024 version of the main class and it's feature set. I expect D&D Beyond won't officially support that and it'll be all homebrew. Paladins are a huge instance of this. Paladins get spellcasting at Level 2 in the current game, 2024 they get it at Level 1. Paladins currently are half paladin level + cha modifier for spells known. In 2024 it's a fixed number based on level. Lay On Hands works different. Smite is absolutely different(and all Paladins get all smite spells for free at certain levels).
Where things would break is if you were say using 2025 Monster Manual Statblocks in a 2014 campaign using 2014 adventurers. Those monsters will be balanced around the 2024 PHB and the things characters could do.
I also expect that there won't be a toggle. D&D Beyond as a website isn't flexible and it was never designed with flexibility. We still don't have spell points, as an example. We don't have certain features from certain books because of it.
When Wizards keeps saying "It's backwards compatible", they mean the adventure content or even monster content. I've not seen any rules that fundamentally change how monsters work. Yes, monsters were revised in Tome of Foes but they still worked in the same system, people just hated the change to some stat blocks. Attacks, armor class, saving throws, hit points, conditions, etc. Those are fundamentally the same and the mechanic for how you get them is the same. Its why you could in theory play Eve of Ruin with the new 2024 characters. You'll just be more powerful than intended.
Wizards has consistently said that you can use 2014 content with the 2024 rules; you can’t use 2024 content with the 2014 rules. Given how little is actually changing, even if there are hiccups with using 2014 content in the 2024 rules, it should be easy enough to resolve those using some incredibly minor common sense homebrew patches.
Now, something worth noting - edition changes have always been scary. New rules mean a new learning curve and the fear that your purchases will become obsolete. There is a certain part of this community that wants Wizards to fail and is weaponizing the long-standing fear of edition changes to turn people who might otherwise be excited for the update against the changes. They do this by constantly calling it 6e, even though it decidedly is not; they do this by making up wild speculation about how it will not be backwards compatible - while ignoring everything that we actually have in evidence. In my experience, the near-totality of these people are the same people upset about how Wizards is trying to remove five decades of racism from the game - so I will let you draw your own conclusion about their motives.
Wizards has been putting out a bunch of actual videos about the new system and what the game will bring, including talk both about backwards compatibility and talk about the mechanics (so you can see how easy it probably will be to patch old content into new). I would suggest watching those and making your own judgments - that is the only real information we have, after all - rather than listen to folks online who may very well have ulterior motives.
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Yo! iv been hearing alot of people say that the new 2024PHB only works on the 2024PHB and isnt backwards compatible anymore. theres also been alot of people saying it is backwards compatible. so can anyone give me a real answer? was it officaly made backwards compatible or is it trying to override old rules and "erase" the older subclasses?
anyone from the DnDbeyond team id love an answer please when you get the time
I would guess it is a new book with a new or variable set of rules.
You can very much continue to use your 5e phb. I think the only issue you would have is if you want to get into WOTC new 3D VTT they have coming.
the only issues im really getting from this are classes/subclasses/spells besides me just working them to be interchangeable
would a 2014 paladin work in a 2024 game? or a 2024 paladin work in a 2014 game? (goes for any class just the one i picked)
will a player be able to pick which spell version the used if say the shield was nerfed super hard to only work on the one attack and not until your next turn?
How do you define "backwards compatible?" It's often used as a buzzword around here so it's probably best if we focus specifically on what you want/don't want to see.
the way i saw the new PHB was more of updated options and not taking over old ruleings and stuff. i saw the new PHB as something like tashas optional class rules
They had to overwrite some of the old rules though. For example, 2024 Surprise just does not work alongside 2014 Surprise, 2024 Inspiration and Exhaustion and Drawing Weapons don't work alongside 2014 etc. If your expectation was that you could just smoosh both books together and have a coherent system, then you're going to be disappointed. You will have to do some of your own work to determine which rules you want to keep from each system and which to not use.
The new PHB is a new PHB, with a (technically, but not extensively) new ruleset. The core attributes and skills and "ways of doing things" are still the same.
I think the ideas are:
The new books will have guidelines about all of this, in greater detail.
You can’t make a rules update perfectly backwards compatible by definition, but pretty much everything that has its own category section on D&DB (races, classes, feats, spells, etc) should be functionally interchangeable between the 2014 and 2024 rules. Probably a few odds and ends that would require some on the spot patching by a DM, but it’s not like shifting from 3.5 to 5e where you’d still need to basically just use the original as a reference point while you build from scratch.
as long as alot of it is relatively interchangeable then id consider that ok
I want to know if I can use Pre-2024 subclasses with the 2024 classes on here. Crawford mentioned guidance on how to implement prior subclasses to 2024 classes in the book, but will it be supported on this website? This is huge to me--I don't wanna buy the new PHB until I know I'm able to throw a Pre-2024 subclass onto the 2024 class template.
I'm imagining this won't work and I'm not holding my breath, but here's to hoping
I expect you'll have to homebrew it.
Honestly that won’t be the end of the world. More work for me but if I can mix and match I won’t care. As long as they don’t paywall gate homebrew as rumored.
To the best of my knowledge, that "rumor" comes entirely from people catastrophizing in the wake of dropping piecemeal purchasing.
I can't say they won't do it, but it seems very unlikely. The homebrew tools exist as a direct offshoot of the tools needed for entering the official game content. Those tools must continue to exist, and the vast majority of games need to homebrew something.
Just like the "rumors" back when TBoMT dropped with no piecemeal.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
That speculation was based on an actual thing that happened.
There has been absolutely nothing to indicate they're doing anything to homebrew. They haven't changed it in the slightest.
That just depends on how limited the data set one chooses to use in their speculation, there was nothing to indicate the changes to the market place. Black swans and all.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
So actually getting back on topic, some more details have been released regarding the backwards compatibility. Basically short answer, yes, you can use 2014 subclasses with the 2024 base classes. Yes, you can play a 2014 character with 2024 characters, but, in such cases you use the 2024 core rules.
For more details you can read these two articles: Backwards compatibility and Subclasses. Otherwise you can also watch the video by Nerd Immersion, where Ted breaks down the articles in more detail.
Same question specifically re DnD Beyond- a lot of what I've seen is like, you have "permission" to use character features from 2014, but will it be possible on the DDB website? Like if we're mid-campaign, playing 2014 rules, if a character levels up after September 17 do all their class features now follow the new rules or will there be a toggle button or something along the lines of the current "optional class features" so we can stay consistent with how we started?
So,
So here's the reality.
The 2014 - 2024 content was balanced around the 2014 rules. You can totally play a 2024 character in content from 2014 but it's going to be stronger than was designed. None of the 2014 content was balanced around weapon masteries, barbarians being able to sustain rages with bonus actions, etc etc. The "ideal" is to use Monsters of the Multiverse for monsters in scenarios because 5th has slowly been re-balanced around concepts introduced in Xanathar and Tasha but if you only had the original monster manual, that's fine.
You can make older subclasses work within 2024 main class guidelines, but it's not recommended to go the other way because the balancing of new subclasses is around the 2024 version of the main class and it's feature set. I expect D&D Beyond won't officially support that and it'll be all homebrew. Paladins are a huge instance of this. Paladins get spellcasting at Level 2 in the current game, 2024 they get it at Level 1. Paladins currently are half paladin level + cha modifier for spells known. In 2024 it's a fixed number based on level. Lay On Hands works different. Smite is absolutely different(and all Paladins get all smite spells for free at certain levels).
Where things would break is if you were say using 2025 Monster Manual Statblocks in a 2014 campaign using 2014 adventurers. Those monsters will be balanced around the 2024 PHB and the things characters could do.
I also expect that there won't be a toggle. D&D Beyond as a website isn't flexible and it was never designed with flexibility. We still don't have spell points, as an example. We don't have certain features from certain books because of it.
When Wizards keeps saying "It's backwards compatible", they mean the adventure content or even monster content. I've not seen any rules that fundamentally change how monsters work. Yes, monsters were revised in Tome of Foes but they still worked in the same system, people just hated the change to some stat blocks. Attacks, armor class, saving throws, hit points, conditions, etc. Those are fundamentally the same and the mechanic for how you get them is the same. Its why you could in theory play Eve of Ruin with the new 2024 characters. You'll just be more powerful than intended.
Wizards has consistently said that you can use 2014 content with the 2024 rules; you can’t use 2024 content with the 2014 rules. Given how little is actually changing, even if there are hiccups with using 2014 content in the 2024 rules, it should be easy enough to resolve those using some incredibly minor common sense homebrew patches.
Now, something worth noting - edition changes have always been scary. New rules mean a new learning curve and the fear that your purchases will become obsolete. There is a certain part of this community that wants Wizards to fail and is weaponizing the long-standing fear of edition changes to turn people who might otherwise be excited for the update against the changes. They do this by constantly calling it 6e, even though it decidedly is not; they do this by making up wild speculation about how it will not be backwards compatible - while ignoring everything that we actually have in evidence. In my experience, the near-totality of these people are the same people upset about how Wizards is trying to remove five decades of racism from the game - so I will let you draw your own conclusion about their motives.
Wizards has been putting out a bunch of actual videos about the new system and what the game will bring, including talk both about backwards compatibility and talk about the mechanics (so you can see how easy it probably will be to patch old content into new). I would suggest watching those and making your own judgments - that is the only real information we have, after all - rather than listen to folks online who may very well have ulterior motives.