Should be able to. There's very little changing in terms of hard mechanics that would interfere with D&D.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I always wonder if people had this same sort of freak-out when the game moved from 2e to 2e Revised, 3e to 3.5, or 4e to the 4e Essentials lines. Every consecutive edition of this game has had something of an "update" to their rules structure that is largely just claritive and tidying up errata stockpiled over the course of the edition. Not once across any of these updates have I ever noticed all the previous content from the same edition becoming incompatible with content from...again, the same edition.
The difference is that digital cloud based tools are major part of this one, at least for those on this forum.
A change isn't so bad for physical. I can always play 5e because I have the physical books (and digital now...but that's beside the point). Even if they went to 6e...I could still bodge them together and make it work, most likely. Even if it were impossible, the worst that could happen is that I don't get new content.
With DDB though, if they decide they're not supporting 5e (2014) anymore, then that property is useless. If they decide they're dropping the books from the server, then you're forced to move on to 1D&D or start your 5e collection all over again but in physical.
As such, some anxiety is natural and normal. I don't foresee any issues beyond being unable to buy 5e core rules once 1D&D releases (but if you already have them, they'll be usable in your library), but I understand why people would get concerned.
At least they're grasping the drawbacks of purchasing a digital licence versus owning.
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Yeah, but 4th Ed was even more married to the digital component that 5e is and I do not remember this kind of anxiety when the Essentials books came out. The character builder continued to work just fine and all the new content slid into games without issue.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Yeah, but 4th Ed was even more married to the digital component that 5e is and I do not remember this kind of anxiety when the Essentials books came out. The character builder continued to work just fine and all the new content slid into games without issue.
WotC hadn’t made or been party to some bad decisions that influencers pounced on and milked for all the sensationalism they could at that point, I believe. It’s all been more smoke than fire in the end, but it has put the idea out there that WotC is in some way “out to get” the players, plus they did initially dabble in some more systemic changes in the UA. There’s no hard evidence to point at, but there’s been enough rumblings that I get where the concerns come from if someone has only been following things casually.
I definitely remember some hyperbole from the 3.0 to 3.5 switch, but not to the level I've seen for this. But that was in the days before social media "influencers" who made money by clickbait.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
People, players especially, depend on digital far more than they ever did.
Young players even more so and on line players even more than that.
As for D&DB I would love to see two different character builders or at least a choice to use either the 2014 core books or the 2024 core books. buttons like they have now to allow all the extra content. But how they run their web site is up to them and not me. I am sure there will be a competing web site I could use if they change to much here.
Yeah, but 4th Ed was even more married to the digital component that 5e is and I do not remember this kind of anxiety when the Essentials books came out. The character builder continued to work just fine and all the new content slid into games without issue.
Not quite. In 4e — and earlier — people all still owned the physical copies of their books, there was some digital content, but nothing as robust as what’s here now. So then, you could say confidently you wouldn’t switch since the old book was sitting on a shelf in your house, and no one was going to take it from you.
Now there are many people who only own digital copies. Which really means they own a license to look at a digital copy on a website. So it seems fair to wonder if that license will change or expire or something when the new books come out.
Personally, I don’t think it will for a lot of reasons, and I think people will be able to keep playing the ‘14 version if they already own the books, move to the ‘24 version, or do some kind of hybrid. In the end, though, that’s just my speculation. It really is something WotC should address publicly.
I definitely remember some hyperbole from the 3.0 to 3.5 switch, but not to the level I've seen for this. But that was in the days before social media "influencers" who made money by clickbait.
I'm confident that the influx of excited new players, especially when some of the shinier toys like the VTT get unveiled, with offset the grognards who are still hung up on the 5eR vs 5.5e vs 6e divide. (I think it's closer to 5.5e myself, but I really couldn't care less what number is beside it as long as it's more fun than 2014.)
Yeah, but 4th Ed was even more married to the digital component that 5e is and I do not remember this kind of anxiety when the Essentials books came out. The character builder continued to work just fine and all the new content slid into games without issue.
Not quite. In 4e — and earlier — people all still owned the physical copies of their books, there was some digital content, but nothing as robust as what’s here now. So then, you could say confidently you wouldn’t switch since the old book was sitting on a shelf in your house, and no one was going to take it from you.
Now there are many people who only own digital copies. Which really means they own a license to look at a digital copy on a website.
You must not have been a DnD Insider subscriber. The character builder for 4E was more robust and better conformed to the needs of the edition than anything that has been released for 5th Ed, official or otherwise. For those that used it, the builder was almost a necessity, especially later in the edition's lifecycle. It was a tragedy that it was built on the back of Silverlight and died when support for the format was pulled. But it was very easy to only interact through 4E through a digital subscription and own exactly zero physical books.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Yeah, but 4th Ed was even more married to the digital component that 5e is and I do not remember this kind of anxiety when the Essentials books came out. The character builder continued to work just fine and all the new content slid into games without issue.
Not quite. In 4e — and earlier — people all still owned the physical copies of their books, there was some digital content, but nothing as robust as what’s here now. So then, you could say confidently you wouldn’t switch since the old book was sitting on a shelf in your house, and no one was going to take it from you.
Now there are many people who only own digital copies. Which really means they own a license to look at a digital copy on a website.
You must not have been a DnD Insider subscriber. The character builder for 4E was more robust and better conformed to the needs of the edition than anything that has been released for 5th Ed, official or otherwise. For those that used it, the builder was almost a necessity, especially later in the edition's lifecycle. It was a tragedy that it was built on the back of Silverlight and died when support for the format was pulled. But it was very easy to only interact through 4E through a digital subscription and own exactly zero physical books.
You got me there. I was not an insider subscriber, just pen and paper. Honestly, I'd forgotten insider even had a character builder.
I'm sure there were a good number of folks with insider, but I do wonder how many there were compared to today. At least in percentage of the player base terms. I'm sure in raw numbers there's more now. (Not trying to argue with you, because you were right about insider, just more saying there's a lot more people now who would potentially care. Certainly, in raw numbers, and I'd bet likely in terms of percentage of players.)
My default assumption would be that it's similar to what happened to MtoF and VGtM when MotM came out: old versions get marked as legacy and deprecated in search results, but still exist.
I'm not sure how they can force it, short of removing the licences we paid for (and they may be daft, but that daft?).
They'll use new style monster statblocks...and that's about it. They can't force a move to the new books without going back on their word to keep the two compatible.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
They could leave this character builder and things alone and under supported and at the same time basically copy it over to the new edition and add all the new things there.
They can leave one programmer to add new 5E content to this site and one moderator for the forums. Everyone else can be moved to the 5.5E site and new forums started there. Eventually there will no longer be new content( like drakenhime) for 5e so even the programmer could be moved over to the new site. In a few years they could lease the management of the legacy site over to a management group that could run it for a small profit.
Since there are new books with new rules I can not see how they could combine the old and new into one single site.
Digital content can be revised/revoked at any time, but aside from that I expect they will try to channel users towards the new edition at every opportunity. Hopefully not to the extent it breaks the use of this site for those who want nothing to do with it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does.
Assuming something Legacy breaks or gets removed for a user who wants to stick with 5.0, they will likely be able to use the homebrew tools to reinstate it (e.g. the 2014 Conjure stuff.) I imagine there will be a number of people that can connect around that sort of thing, given that most of the big changes had about 30% disfavor.
Hopefully! Would be great if not owning the books for the new edition means it is more or less invisible. Have a feeling they will try to force it on us to some extent though. Hope for the best but plan for the worst, I guess?
The Legacy content will be the old 5e stuff. If you don't own the 2014 books or material it will vanish. That's how the Legacy content structure works, and is likely to be the approach they use, since they are still going forward.
Legacy stuff will only show up in searches if you own it -- and it will still be beside the current material (the 2024 books). That is, the 2024 stuff will be anything but invisible, and if you don't have the 2014 stuff purchased already, it will absolutely be invisible.
Digital content can be revised/revoked at any time, but aside from that I expect they will try to channel users towards the new edition at every opportunity. Hopefully not to the extent it breaks the use of this site for those who want nothing to do with it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does.
To that point, if those who want nothing to do with the 2024 version books don't own the 2014 books on the site, then they won't have access to it, and any feature (such as encounter builder, maps, character builder, etc) that is added is already explicitly going to be added with an eye to using the 2024 books.
So yes, they will absolutely make the 2024 stuff the default and base expectation for the entire site and all functions thereof. I mean, they have been saying that's the plan for a long while so far, so not like it is a surprise.
So odds are good that for folks who don't want anything to do with the 2024 stuff, the only items of value will likely be the Forums and the repository for Homebrew -- unless they own the 2014 books, and enable them in the campaign stuff.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Hopefully! Would be great if not owning the books for the new edition means it is more or less invisible. Have a feeling they will try to force it on us to some extent though. Hope for the best but plan for the worst, I guess?
The Legacy content will be the old 5e stuff. If you don't own the 2014 books or material it will vanish. That's how the Legacy content structure works, and is likely to be the approach they use, since they are still going forward.
Legacy stuff will only show up in searches if you own it -- and it will still be beside the current material (the 2024 books). That is, the 2024 stuff will be anything but invisible, and if you don't have the 2014 stuff purchased already, it will absolutely be invisible.
Digital content can be revised/revoked at any time, but aside from that I expect they will try to channel users towards the new edition at every opportunity. Hopefully not to the extent it breaks the use of this site for those who want nothing to do with it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does.
To that point, if those who want nothing to do with the 2024 version books don't own the 2014 books on the site, then they won't have access to it, and any feature (such as encounter builder, maps, character builder, etc) that is added is already explicitly going to be added with an eye to using the 2024 books.
With the current way sharing works, I think it will be significantly messier and complicated than you describe, it already is. Further if the sharing issues were easy to fix I would wager it would work better by now.
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CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
They could leave this character builder and things alone and under supported and at the same time basically copy it over to the new edition and add all the new things there.
They can leave one programmer to add new 5E content to this site and one moderator for the forums. Everyone else can be moved to the 5.5E site and new forums started there. Eventually there will no longer be new content( like drakenhime) for 5e so even the programmer could be moved over to the new site. In a few years they could lease the management of the legacy site over to a management group that could run it for a small profit.
Since there are new books with new rules I can not see how they could combine the old and new into one single site.
You really think they'll literally rebuild from the ground up just to try and force a transition from 5e to 5.5? That would be a spectacular waste of resources. There's no reason for them to do anything but add the new PHB stuff to the current character builder and put the 2014 PHB in Legacy so they can't be purchased anymore. They will almost certainly not patch any remaining or new bugs on Legacy content, but burning a bridge a significant portion of their consumers are standing on is not a particularly wise move. The "new" rules are just updates to the existing system. It's not at all hard to reconcile them with the current setup.
There's no reason to make a new site. There are some rule changes to be sure, but it won't be hard to incorporate the new rules - almost certainly, there'll be a toggle for 5e or 1D&D, which will be defaulted to 1D&D. It'd be more work and expense to do a new site than to just update this one. I'm actually hoping they'll rebuild the whole thing though - make it easier to put new stuff on etc. We'll see.
Going to a new site would royally p off the customer base. Like, ok, doesn't make a difference core rules, but people who got the expansions, sourcebooks, adventures etc? That they were promised would work with the new version? Despite the declared vision that 1D&D is the singular place for all your D&D? They could migrate our purchases across...but other than the technical distinction and possibly the URL, it's all the same for us.
Nah, they'll keep it all on DDB (which is why they bought it after all) or it will effectively be as if they did.
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Will we still be able to play 5th edition on D&D Beyond when 5.5 comes out?
Should be able to. There's very little changing in terms of hard mechanics that would interfere with D&D.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I always wonder if people had this same sort of freak-out when the game moved from 2e to 2e Revised, 3e to 3.5, or 4e to the 4e Essentials lines. Every consecutive edition of this game has had something of an "update" to their rules structure that is largely just claritive and tidying up errata stockpiled over the course of the edition. Not once across any of these updates have I ever noticed all the previous content from the same edition becoming incompatible with content from...again, the same edition.
The difference is that digital cloud based tools are major part of this one, at least for those on this forum.
A change isn't so bad for physical. I can always play 5e because I have the physical books (and digital now...but that's beside the point). Even if they went to 6e...I could still bodge them together and make it work, most likely. Even if it were impossible, the worst that could happen is that I don't get new content.
With DDB though, if they decide they're not supporting 5e (2014) anymore, then that property is useless. If they decide they're dropping the books from the server, then you're forced to move on to 1D&D or start your 5e collection all over again but in physical.
As such, some anxiety is natural and normal. I don't foresee any issues beyond being unable to buy 5e core rules once 1D&D releases (but if you already have them, they'll be usable in your library), but I understand why people would get concerned.
At least they're grasping the drawbacks of purchasing a digital licence versus owning.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Yeah, but 4th Ed was even more married to the digital component that 5e is and I do not remember this kind of anxiety when the Essentials books came out. The character builder continued to work just fine and all the new content slid into games without issue.
WotC hadn’t made or been party to some bad decisions that influencers pounced on and milked for all the sensationalism they could at that point, I believe. It’s all been more smoke than fire in the end, but it has put the idea out there that WotC is in some way “out to get” the players, plus they did initially dabble in some more systemic changes in the UA. There’s no hard evidence to point at, but there’s been enough rumblings that I get where the concerns come from if someone has only been following things casually.
I definitely remember some hyperbole from the 3.0 to 3.5 switch, but not to the level I've seen for this. But that was in the days before social media "influencers" who made money by clickbait.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
People, players especially, depend on digital far more than they ever did.
Young players even more so and on line players even more than that.
As for D&DB I would love to see two different character builders or at least a choice to use either the 2014 core books or the 2024 core books. buttons like they have now to allow all the extra content.
But how they run their web site is up to them and not me. I am sure there will be a competing web site I could use if they change to much here.
Not quite. In 4e — and earlier — people all still owned the physical copies of their books, there was some digital content, but nothing as robust as what’s here now. So then, you could say confidently you wouldn’t switch since the old book was sitting on a shelf in your house, and no one was going to take it from you.
Now there are many people who only own digital copies. Which really means they own a license to look at a digital copy on a website. So it seems fair to wonder if that license will change or expire or something when the new books come out.
Personally, I don’t think it will for a lot of reasons, and I think people will be able to keep playing the ‘14 version if they already own the books, move to the ‘24 version, or do some kind of hybrid. In the end, though, that’s just my speculation. It really is something WotC should address publicly.
I'm confident that the influx of excited new players, especially when some of the shinier toys like the VTT get unveiled, with offset the grognards who are still hung up on the 5eR vs 5.5e vs 6e divide. (I think it's closer to 5.5e myself, but I really couldn't care less what number is beside it as long as it's more fun than 2014.)
You must not have been a DnD Insider subscriber. The character builder for 4E was more robust and better conformed to the needs of the edition than anything that has been released for 5th Ed, official or otherwise. For those that used it, the builder was almost a necessity, especially later in the edition's lifecycle. It was a tragedy that it was built on the back of Silverlight and died when support for the format was pulled. But it was very easy to only interact through 4E through a digital subscription and own exactly zero physical books.
You got me there. I was not an insider subscriber, just pen and paper. Honestly, I'd forgotten insider even had a character builder.
I'm sure there were a good number of folks with insider, but I do wonder how many there were compared to today. At least in percentage of the player base terms. I'm sure in raw numbers there's more now. (Not trying to argue with you, because you were right about insider, just more saying there's a lot more people now who would potentially care. Certainly, in raw numbers, and I'd bet likely in terms of percentage of players.)
My default assumption would be that it's similar to what happened to MtoF and VGtM when MotM came out: old versions get marked as legacy and deprecated in search results, but still exist.
I'm not sure how they can force it, short of removing the licences we paid for (and they may be daft, but that daft?).
They'll use new style monster statblocks...and that's about it. They can't force a move to the new books without going back on their word to keep the two compatible.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
They could leave this character builder and things alone and under supported and at the same time basically copy it over to the new edition and add all the new things there.
They can leave one programmer to add new 5E content to this site and one moderator for the forums. Everyone else can be moved to the 5.5E site and new forums started there.
Eventually there will no longer be new content( like drakenhime) for 5e so even the programmer could be moved over to the new site. In a few years they could lease the management of the legacy site over to a management group that could run it for a small profit.
Since there are new books with new rules I can not see how they could combine the old and new into one single site.
Assuming something Legacy breaks or gets removed for a user who wants to stick with 5.0, they will likely be able to use the homebrew tools to reinstate it (e.g. the 2014 Conjure stuff.) I imagine there will be a number of people that can connect around that sort of thing, given that most of the big changes had about 30% disfavor.
The Legacy content will be the old 5e stuff. If you don't own the 2014 books or material it will vanish. That's how the Legacy content structure works, and is likely to be the approach they use, since they are still going forward.
Legacy stuff will only show up in searches if you own it -- and it will still be beside the current material (the 2024 books). That is, the 2024 stuff will be anything but invisible, and if you don't have the 2014 stuff purchased already, it will absolutely be invisible.
To that point, if those who want nothing to do with the 2024 version books don't own the 2014 books on the site, then they won't have access to it, and any feature (such as encounter builder, maps, character builder, etc) that is added is already explicitly going to be added with an eye to using the 2024 books.
So yes, they will absolutely make the 2024 stuff the default and base expectation for the entire site and all functions thereof. I mean, they have been saying that's the plan for a long while so far, so not like it is a surprise.
So odds are good that for folks who don't want anything to do with the 2024 stuff, the only items of value will likely be the Forums and the repository for Homebrew -- unless they own the 2014 books, and enable them in the campaign stuff.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
With the current way sharing works, I think it will be significantly messier and complicated than you describe, it already is. Further if the sharing issues were easy to fix I would wager it would work better by now.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
You really think they'll literally rebuild from the ground up just to try and force a transition from 5e to 5.5? That would be a spectacular waste of resources. There's no reason for them to do anything but add the new PHB stuff to the current character builder and put the 2014 PHB in Legacy so they can't be purchased anymore. They will almost certainly not patch any remaining or new bugs on Legacy content, but burning a bridge a significant portion of their consumers are standing on is not a particularly wise move. The "new" rules are just updates to the existing system. It's not at all hard to reconcile them with the current setup.
There's no reason to make a new site. There are some rule changes to be sure, but it won't be hard to incorporate the new rules - almost certainly, there'll be a toggle for 5e or 1D&D, which will be defaulted to 1D&D. It'd be more work and expense to do a new site than to just update this one. I'm actually hoping they'll rebuild the whole thing though - make it easier to put new stuff on etc. We'll see.
Going to a new site would royally p off the customer base. Like, ok, doesn't make a difference core rules, but people who got the expansions, sourcebooks, adventures etc? That they were promised would work with the new version? Despite the declared vision that 1D&D is the singular place for all your D&D? They could migrate our purchases across...but other than the technical distinction and possibly the URL, it's all the same for us.
Nah, they'll keep it all on DDB (which is why they bought it after all) or it will effectively be as if they did.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.