For those who do not want anything to do with the new version exactly how will changing the core rules even slightly not effect how the site works?
The core is more than just a data base like the additional content is. Is it how the characters are made at their core base before the additional content is added.
If someone hits all the buttons both new and old how will that effect things?
And never believe someone who says that nothing will change everything will be just fine.
Things will change (slightly) and everything will be just fine. For those who find the (slight) change so distasteful as to ruin the whole digital experience, there is always physical product (for as long as it lasts), and/or 3rd party apps and material that may cater to your needs (on an "unofficial" basis). To not want change but also want official backing when the developer intends to change is silliness.
Literally no one said there will be zero difference. That's not even resembling what people people are saying that there is no need for a different site. You will be able to play 5e. You might need a toggle to switch between the two. Big deal.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
For those who do not want anything to do with the new version exactly how will changing the core rules even slightly not effect how the site works?
The core is more than just a data base like the additional content is. Is it how the characters are made at their core base before the additional content is added.
If someone hits all the buttons both new and old how will that effect things?
And never believe someone who says that nothing will change everything will be just fine.
I’d argue they’re not really changing the “core” rules, though that would depend on how you define core. But the bounded accuracy isn’t going away, we’re not going to something like 4e-style 4 defenses. What we’ve seen so far are changes to some spells (easy enough to legacy tag the old versions) and changes to classes and subclasses — Tasha’s ranger has shown an easy way to implement those. Really, I haven’t seen fundamental changes to this edition that would make the new stuff incompatible.
Now, I still think they might be working on a new version of the character builder. There have been rules changes and new game features since 2014, and some of them are pretty clunky the way they need to be bolted on to a software chassis that wasn’t designed to accommodate them, not to mention many that haven’t happened at all. And I’m willing to bet they’ll want the character builder to be tightly integrated with the VTT. So there may be enough motivation for a dndbeyond 2.0. Working on a new version may also explain why they’ve not made substantial improvements here in ages. But that’s all speculation on my part.
For those who do not want anything to do with the new version exactly how will changing the core rules even slightly not effect how the site works?
The core is more than just a data base like the additional content is. Is it how the characters are made at their core base before the additional content is added.
If someone hits all the buttons both new and old how will that effect things?
And never believe someone who says that nothing will change everything will be just fine.
No one is saying "nothing will change." You'll have to do some work to realize the compatibility they're aiming for. But not nearly as much as you would for, say, converting 4e to 5e or 3e to 4e. That's the objective.
Literally no one said there will be zero difference. That's not even resembling what people people are saying that there is no need for a different site. You will be able to play 5e. You might need a toggle to switch between the two. Big deal.
For those who do not want anything to do with the new version exactly how will changing the core rules even slightly not effect how the site works?
The core is more than just a data base like the additional content is. Is it how the characters are made at their core base before the additional content is added.
If someone hits all the buttons both new and old how will that effect things?
And never believe someone who says that nothing will change everything will be just fine.
I am firmly against the "new" rules (for reasons I do not wish to debate again). I do not see, based on reading through the UA and books published for the new stuff an issue of not including it in my games.
I also don't see a huge deal for DM's that will allow all sources including legacy.
I do however see problems when content sharing is used and the DM want's to exclude options from their game as there are already problems with this system that I feel will be magnified when the new stuff is released.
How big of an issue is anyone's guess as it will be dependent on the table it's self and the players at the table, as it is now.
For those who do not want anything to do with the new version exactly how will changing the core rules even slightly not effect how the site works?
The core is more than just a data base like the additional content is. Is it how the characters are made at their core base before the additional content is added.
If someone hits all the buttons both new and old how will that effect things?
And never believe someone who says that nothing will change everything will be just fine.
I am firmly against the "new" rules (for reasons I do not wish to debate again). I do not see, based on reading through the UA and books published for the new stuff an issue of not including it in my games.
I also don't see a huge deal for DM's that will allow all sources including legacy.
I do however see problems when content sharing is used and the DM want's to exclude options from their game as there are already problems with this system that I feel will be magnified when the new stuff is released.
How big of an issue is anyone's guess as it will be dependent on the table it's self and the players at the table, as it is now.
The bold part is indeed likely to be a major issue for those who are uninterested in the 2024 versions -- especially since the 2024 stuff is likely going to be a default. That is the nature of the beast, though.
It will also be a challenge for new players, who may only end up having access to older rules when they are in a campaign.
And this isn't even counting the mix that happens when you factor in player owned books and homebrew collections.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
For those who do not want anything to do with the new version exactly how will changing the core rules even slightly not effect how the site works?
The core is more than just a data base like the additional content is. Is it how the characters are made at their core base before the additional content is added.
If someone hits all the buttons both new and old how will that effect things?
And never believe someone who says that nothing will change everything will be just fine.
I am firmly against the "new" rules (for reasons I do not wish to debate again). I do not see, based on reading through the UA and books published for the new stuff an issue of not including it in my games.
I also don't see a huge deal for DM's that will allow all sources including legacy.
I do however see problems when content sharing is used and the DM want's to exclude options from their game as there are already problems with this system that I feel will be magnified when the new stuff is released.
How big of an issue is anyone's guess as it will be dependent on the table it's self and the players at the table, as it is now.
The bold part is indeed likely to be a major issue for those who are uninterested in the 2024 versions -- especially since the 2024 stuff is likely going to be a default. That is the nature of the beast, though.
It will also be a challenge for new players, who may only end up having access to older rules when they are in a campaign.
And this isn't even counting the mix that happens when you factor in player owned books and homebrew collections.
Homebrew and content sharing can get very messy fast!
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CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
As far as I can tell, based on how they treated VGTM/MTOF and MP:MOTM, as long as you own the Legacy content and do not buy the updated content, you will continue to have access to the old stuff and not see any of the new stuff in the character builder (except probably for the new BR/SRD and any other free stuff). The only time you will see the new stuff is if you are in a campaign with content sharing turned on, and someone got the new stuff.
For the databases for monsters, spells, magic items, etc. though, you will absolutely see the new stuff along with old stuff when you search for things, you just will not be able to access the new stuff, but I do not think that is a big deal. If you really do not want to see the new stuff, just toggle your sources during search and save that search as a bookmark.
They can't force a move to the new books without going back on their word to keep the two compatible.
I do think that ultimately this promise is going to have to be broken, especially if OneD&D is going to be iterated upon as they go. Not anytime soon, but 5 years from now? 8 years from now? At some point something will have to give.
It will just be too difficult to keep track of what version of what thing you're using. Yes, now we have Elf and Elf(legacy). What happens when a newer, even more updated version of Elf comes out?
"I'm playing an elf."
"Ok, which elf? 5e? 2024? 2029? Dark Sun? Elminster's Follies?"
A core part of the game lies in the way the rules provide a clear way to communicate. The DM just needs to say "grapple" to communicate two paragraphs of rule text. But as all these terms begin to bifurcate and drift apart, everything will need clarification on which version of which thing you're using.
They know this. The next several years are going to be transitional and I'm sure both systems will continue to be supported. But after a while we will see bias. If a new change breaks support for a legacy option in the builder, it might not get fixed. It certainly won't be prioritized. Heck, there's already a list of 5e published things that they don't support. We will be gently pushed away from legacy content, and eventually they will not be willing to spend any extra money ensuring that it continues to be supported.
All they had to do to continue to support 4e's online tools was pay to keep the servers running. They chose not to.
I don't think this is them being overly malicious or anything, it's just how product evolution works. They simply don't make enough profit from people who only pay the minimum subscription fees to play the old content they already own. Hasbro has made it clear they are extremely profit-driven and we can expect them to be very proactive in "encouraging" us to spend money on new stuff by any means they can figure out.
I now feel compelled to note that the promise about backwards compatibility only applies to adventures and companion products, not to the PHB or DMG from 2014.
They have noted that someone can play using the 2014 classes right beside the 2024 classes, but that wasn't part of the compatibility stuff -- they meant that the Rime of the Frostmaiden will be totally compatible with the 2024 rules and the 2014; that the Deck of Many things and Sigil will work with both (and they know that because they designed them to be).
yes, yes, I know half of you don't believe me, but that's a you problem, not a me problem.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
They can't force a move to the new books without going back on their word to keep the two compatible.
I do think that ultimately this promise is going to have to be broken, especially if OneD&D is going to be iterated upon as they go. Not anytime soon, but 5 years from now? 8 years from now? At some point something will have to give.
It will just be too difficult to keep track of what version of what thing you're using. Yes, now we have Elf and Elf(legacy). What happens when a newer, even more updated version of Elf comes out?
"I'm playing an elf."
"Ok, which elf? 5e? 2024? 2029? Dark Sun? Elminster's Follies?"
A core part of the game lies in the way the rules provide a clear way to communicate. The DM just needs to say "grapple" to communicate two paragraphs of rule text. But as all these terms begin to bifurcate and drift apart, everything will need clarification on which version of which thing you're using.
They know this. The next several years are going to be transitional and I'm sure both systems will continue to be supported. But after a while we will see bias. If a new change breaks support for a legacy option in the builder, it might not get fixed. It certainly won't be prioritized. Heck, there's already a list of 5e published things that they don't support. We will be gently pushed away from legacy content, and eventually they will not be willing to spend any extra money ensuring that it continues to be supported.
All they had to do to continue to support 4e's online tools was pay to keep the servers running. They chose not to.
I don't think this is them being overly malicious or anything, it's just how product evolution works. They simply don't make enough profit from people who only pay the minimum subscription fees to play the old content they already own. Hasbro has made it clear they are extremely profit-driven and we can expect them to be very proactive in "encouraging" us to spend money on new stuff by any means they can figure out.
This will be the rub, and the marketing vs the small print is gonna be an interesting fight to watch unfold if it goes badly.
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CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
The current switch is much, much different. Many of us have already bought the books twice (sometimes more!), we pay a subscription for D&D Beyond and we don't know how useful the content we've "licensed" is going to be as new content comes out. I for one don't plan on playing with the changes. The game I'm currently playing works fine for my needs. I don't want to buy (largely) the same content two more times.
If the "influencers" were the problem, why did WotC issue so many mea culpas? Did some of them blow things out of proportion? Probably, but most of what was being complained about was completely deserved.
I now feel compelled to note that the promise about backwards compatibility only applies to adventures and companion products, not to the PHB or DMG from 2014.
They have noted that someone can play using the 2014 classes right beside the 2024 classes, but that wasn't part of the compatibility stuff -- they meant that the Rime of the Frostmaiden will be totally compatible with the 2024 rules and the 2014; that the Deck of Many things and Sigil will work with both (and they know that because they designed them to be).
yes, yes, I know half of you don't believe me, but that's a you problem, not a me problem.
I am with you on this. The core rules are changing and that does not mean this site WILL keep working with the old rules.
They can't force a move to the new books without going back on their word to keep the two compatible.
I do think that ultimately this promise is going to have to be broken, especially if OneD&D is going to be iterated upon as they go. Not anytime soon, but 5 years from now? 8 years from now? At some point something will have to give.
It will just be too difficult to keep track of what version of what thing you're using. Yes, now we have Elf and Elf(legacy). What happens when a newer, even more updated version of Elf comes out?
"I'm playing an elf."
"Ok, which elf? 5e? 2024? 2029? Dark Sun? Elminster's Follies?"
A core part of the game lies in the way the rules provide a clear way to communicate. The DM just needs to say "grapple" to communicate two paragraphs of rule text. But as all these terms begin to bifurcate and drift apart, everything will need clarification on which version of which thing you're using.
They know this. The next several years are going to be transitional and I'm sure both systems will continue to be supported. But after a while we will see bias. If a new change breaks support for a legacy option in the builder, it might not get fixed. It certainly won't be prioritized. Heck, there's already a list of 5e published things that they don't support. We will be gently pushed away from legacy content, and eventually they will not be willing to spend any extra money ensuring that it continues to be supported.
All they had to do to continue to support 4e's online tools was pay to keep the servers running. They chose not to.
I don't think this is them being overly malicious or anything, it's just how product evolution works. They simply don't make enough profit from people who only pay the minimum subscription fees to play the old content they already own. Hasbro has made it clear they are extremely profit-driven and we can expect them to be very proactive in "encouraging" us to spend money on new stuff by any means they can figure out.
So like, I hear what you're saying, but here's the thing - they don't have to "support 2014 5e." What they actually need are halfway decent homebrew tools. And that's something they'll need regardless, because if they don't, their competitors will - Foundry, Talespire, Fantasy Grounds, Owlbear Rodeo and Roll20 aren't going to sit still, nor keep you from playing 5.0.
And when I say "homebrew tools," they really don't need much. Want 2014 Conjure Animals? All you need is the DM to be able to pull a low-CR beast out of the MM and copy-paste the token. Want 2014 Guidance? Hand the player a d4. Want 2014 Quivering Palm? DM rolls a Con save and then reduces the monster to zero. And so on.
They can't force a move to the new books without going back on their word to keep the two compatible.
I do think that ultimately this promise is going to have to be broken, especially if OneD&D is going to be iterated upon as they go. Not anytime soon, but 5 years from now? 8 years from now? At some point something will have to give.
It will just be too difficult to keep track of what version of what thing you're using. Yes, now we have Elf and Elf(legacy). What happens when a newer, even more updated version of Elf comes out?
"I'm playing an elf."
"Ok, which elf? 5e? 2024? 2029? Dark Sun? Elminster's Follies?"
A core part of the game lies in the way the rules provide a clear way to communicate. The DM just needs to say "grapple" to communicate two paragraphs of rule text. But as all these terms begin to bifurcate and drift apart, everything will need clarification on which version of which thing you're using.
They know this. The next several years are going to be transitional and I'm sure both systems will continue to be supported. But after a while we will see bias. If a new change breaks support for a legacy option in the builder, it might not get fixed. It certainly won't be prioritized. Heck, there's already a list of 5e published things that they don't support. We will be gently pushed away from legacy content, and eventually they will not be willing to spend any extra money ensuring that it continues to be supported.
All they had to do to continue to support 4e's online tools was pay to keep the servers running. They chose not to.
I don't think this is them being overly malicious or anything, it's just how product evolution works. They simply don't make enough profit from people who only pay the minimum subscription fees to play the old content they already own. Hasbro has made it clear they are extremely profit-driven and we can expect them to be very proactive in "encouraging" us to spend money on new stuff by any means they can figure out.
So like, I hear what you're saying, but here's the thing - they don't have to "support 2014 5e." What they actually need are halfway decent homebrew tools. And that's something they'll need regardless, because if they don't, their competitors will - Foundry, Talespire, Fantasy Grounds, Owlbear Rodeo and Roll20 aren't going to sit still, nor keep you from playing 5.0.
And when I say "homebrew tools," they really don't need much. Want 2014 Conjure Animals? All you need is the DM to be able to pull a low-CR beast out of the MM and copy-paste the token. Want 2014 Guidance? Hand the player a d4. Want 2014 Quivering Palm? DM rolls a Con save and then reduces the monster to zero. And so on.
I do not care how they leverage the change as long as what I own today still works as it works now (with all of the "owning" of content available posted on this site and the way back web thing I feel safe enough to continue my purchases) . When that changes WAR will be declared.
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CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
I do not care how they leverage the change as long as what I own today still works as it works now (with all of the "owning" of content available posted on this site and the way back web thing I feel safe enough to continue my purchases) . When that changes WAR will be declared.
If they for some reason change the Legacy system so that what you purchased is no longer accessible I'll be right there beside you. At a minimum, if they were to do that they should offer refunds to those who purchased said Legacy content - but I agree they shouldn't remove access at all.
However - removing access to your old books, is an entirely separate issue from ensuring all the modern tools accommodate full functionality of those books. Some assembly may be required on your end, if you want old Conjure Animals or old Open Hand Monk. The latter would be like expecting them to be able to roll back the character builder for individuals every time they issue errata. It's just not reasonable. The only workable solution is for them to create tools that let you and others do that yourselves.
All they have to do is leave this server and 5e programs running and start a new server rack with the 5.5e port running on that one.
The master tier subscriptions and digital content going for a few years.
New master tier subscriptions and digital content sales should be able to pay for the new set up.
We all know that subscription prices WILL go up next year(they always do) so the old price would give you access to 5e and the new price will give you access to both.
Everything in this site is digital including ALL financial transactions. They can see minute by minute exactly how much everything is bringing in. They see each exact breakdown of all the old sales and new sales. All the month to month subscriptions and exactly what each member is paying for now and has paid for in the past. They even know all the players in each of your campaigns and when everyone of them is using this site. They can watch your dice rolls. They have a very very good idea of exactly how many of you will likely buy the new content as fast as possible, those who will wait and those who will almost never buy anything.
Running a second server rack is cheap insurance to help keep the old players and not give some third party the opportunity to make something better and fill in the gap they leave by stopping online support for 5e. Just like 3e kept selling 5e will keep selling. not much but it will keep selling. Plus as time goes on they could drop the digital price of all things 5e just to keep the interest and online sales.
I do not care how they leverage the change as long as what I own today still works as it works now (with all of the "owning" of content available posted on this site and the way back web thing I feel safe enough to continue my purchases) . When that changes WAR will be declared.
If they for some reason change the Legacy system so that what you purchased is no longer accessible I'll be right there beside you. At a minimum, if they were to do that they should offer refunds to those who purchased said Legacy content - but I agree they shouldn't remove access at all.
However - removing access to your old books, is an entirely separate issue from ensuring all the modern tools accommodate full functionality of those books. Some assembly may be required on your end, if you want old Conjure Animals or old Open Hand Monk. The latter would be like expecting them to be able to roll back the character builder for individuals every time they issue errata. It's just not reasonable. The only workable solution is for them to create tools that let you and others do that yourselves.
Not to derail the thread, and I do agree with you with one caveat that being :
The only reason I have ever spent a bent penny on DDB has been for the character builder and interactive character sheet. Without these tools there is 0 value to me on this site.
I don't care if those are the only things that work for legacy content as long as they work.
I also do not se this being an issue anytime soon.
I do however see problems when content sharing is used and the DM want's to exclude options from their game as there are already problems with this system that I feel will be magnified when the new stuff is released.
How big of an issue is anyone's guess as it will be dependent on the table it's self and the players at the table, as it is now.
That's a valid point, but easily remedied. Just have a toggle that bars one or the other. Of course, whether DDB implements such a solution is another question.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
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For those who do not want anything to do with the new version exactly how will changing the core rules even slightly not effect how the site works?
The core is more than just a data base like the additional content is. Is it how the characters are made at their core base before the additional content is added.
If someone hits all the buttons both new and old how will that effect things?
And never believe someone who says that nothing will change everything will be just fine.
Things will change (slightly) and everything will be just fine. For those who find the (slight) change so distasteful as to ruin the whole digital experience, there is always physical product (for as long as it lasts), and/or 3rd party apps and material that may cater to your needs (on an "unofficial" basis). To not want change but also want official backing when the developer intends to change is silliness.
Literally no one said there will be zero difference. That's not even resembling what people people are saying that there is no need for a different site. You will be able to play 5e. You might need a toggle to switch between the two. Big deal.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I’d argue they’re not really changing the “core” rules, though that would depend on how you define core. But the bounded accuracy isn’t going away, we’re not going to something like 4e-style 4 defenses. What we’ve seen so far are changes to some spells (easy enough to legacy tag the old versions) and changes to classes and subclasses — Tasha’s ranger has shown an easy way to implement those. Really, I haven’t seen fundamental changes to this edition that would make the new stuff incompatible.
Now, I still think they might be working on a new version of the character builder. There have been rules changes and new game features since 2014, and some of them are pretty clunky the way they need to be bolted on to a software chassis that wasn’t designed to accommodate them, not to mention many that haven’t happened at all. And I’m willing to bet they’ll want the character builder to be tightly integrated with the VTT. So there may be enough motivation for a dndbeyond 2.0. Working on a new version may also explain why they’ve not made substantial improvements here in ages. But that’s all speculation on my part.
No one is saying "nothing will change." You'll have to do some work to realize the compatibility they're aiming for. But not nearly as much as you would for, say, converting 4e to 5e or 3e to 4e. That's the objective.
The naysayers just want to be spoonfed it seems.
I am firmly against the "new" rules (for reasons I do not wish to debate again). I do not see, based on reading through the UA and books published for the new stuff an issue of not including it in my games.
I also don't see a huge deal for DM's that will allow all sources including legacy.
I do however see problems when content sharing is used and the DM want's to exclude options from their game as there are already problems with this system that I feel will be magnified when the new stuff is released.
How big of an issue is anyone's guess as it will be dependent on the table it's self and the players at the table, as it is now.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
The bold part is indeed likely to be a major issue for those who are uninterested in the 2024 versions -- especially since the 2024 stuff is likely going to be a default. That is the nature of the beast, though.
It will also be a challenge for new players, who may only end up having access to older rules when they are in a campaign.
And this isn't even counting the mix that happens when you factor in player owned books and homebrew collections.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Homebrew and content sharing can get very messy fast!
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
As far as I can tell, based on how they treated VGTM/MTOF and MP:MOTM, as long as you own the Legacy content and do not buy the updated content, you will continue to have access to the old stuff and not see any of the new stuff in the character builder (except probably for the new BR/SRD and any other free stuff). The only time you will see the new stuff is if you are in a campaign with content sharing turned on, and someone got the new stuff.
For the databases for monsters, spells, magic items, etc. though, you will absolutely see the new stuff along with old stuff when you search for things, you just will not be able to access the new stuff, but I do not think that is a big deal. If you really do not want to see the new stuff, just toggle your sources during search and save that search as a bookmark.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
I do think that ultimately this promise is going to have to be broken, especially if OneD&D is going to be iterated upon as they go. Not anytime soon, but 5 years from now? 8 years from now? At some point something will have to give.
It will just be too difficult to keep track of what version of what thing you're using. Yes, now we have Elf and Elf(legacy). What happens when a newer, even more updated version of Elf comes out?
"I'm playing an elf."
"Ok, which elf? 5e? 2024? 2029? Dark Sun? Elminster's Follies?"
A core part of the game lies in the way the rules provide a clear way to communicate. The DM just needs to say "grapple" to communicate two paragraphs of rule text. But as all these terms begin to bifurcate and drift apart, everything will need clarification on which version of which thing you're using.
They know this. The next several years are going to be transitional and I'm sure both systems will continue to be supported. But after a while we will see bias. If a new change breaks support for a legacy option in the builder, it might not get fixed. It certainly won't be prioritized. Heck, there's already a list of 5e published things that they don't support. We will be gently pushed away from legacy content, and eventually they will not be willing to spend any extra money ensuring that it continues to be supported.
All they had to do to continue to support 4e's online tools was pay to keep the servers running. They chose not to.
I don't think this is them being overly malicious or anything, it's just how product evolution works. They simply don't make enough profit from people who only pay the minimum subscription fees to play the old content they already own. Hasbro has made it clear they are extremely profit-driven and we can expect them to be very proactive in "encouraging" us to spend money on new stuff by any means they can figure out.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I now feel compelled to note that the promise about backwards compatibility only applies to adventures and companion products, not to the PHB or DMG from 2014.
They have noted that someone can play using the 2014 classes right beside the 2024 classes, but that wasn't part of the compatibility stuff -- they meant that the Rime of the Frostmaiden will be totally compatible with the 2024 rules and the 2014; that the Deck of Many things and Sigil will work with both (and they know that because they designed them to be).
yes, yes, I know half of you don't believe me, but that's a you problem, not a me problem.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
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An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
This will be the rub, and the marketing vs the small print is gonna be an interesting fight to watch unfold if it goes badly.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
The current switch is much, much different. Many of us have already bought the books twice (sometimes more!), we pay a subscription for D&D Beyond and we don't know how useful the content we've "licensed" is going to be as new content comes out. I for one don't plan on playing with the changes. The game I'm currently playing works fine for my needs. I don't want to buy (largely) the same content two more times.
If the "influencers" were the problem, why did WotC issue so many mea culpas? Did some of them blow things out of proportion? Probably, but most of what was being complained about was completely deserved.
I am with you on this. The core rules are changing and that does not mean this site WILL keep working with the old rules.
So like, I hear what you're saying, but here's the thing - they don't have to "support 2014 5e." What they actually need are halfway decent homebrew tools. And that's something they'll need regardless, because if they don't, their competitors will - Foundry, Talespire, Fantasy Grounds, Owlbear Rodeo and Roll20 aren't going to sit still, nor keep you from playing 5.0.
And when I say "homebrew tools," they really don't need much. Want 2014 Conjure Animals? All you need is the DM to be able to pull a low-CR beast out of the MM and copy-paste the token. Want 2014 Guidance? Hand the player a d4. Want 2014 Quivering Palm? DM rolls a Con save and then reduces the monster to zero. And so on.
I do not care how they leverage the change as long as what I own today still works as it works now (with all of the "owning" of content available posted on this site and the way back web thing I feel safe enough to continue my purchases) . When that changes WAR will be declared.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
If they for some reason change the Legacy system so that what you purchased is no longer accessible I'll be right there beside you. At a minimum, if they were to do that they should offer refunds to those who purchased said Legacy content - but I agree they shouldn't remove access at all.
However - removing access to your old books, is an entirely separate issue from ensuring all the modern tools accommodate full functionality of those books. Some assembly may be required on your end, if you want old Conjure Animals or old Open Hand Monk. The latter would be like expecting them to be able to roll back the character builder for individuals every time they issue errata. It's just not reasonable. The only workable solution is for them to create tools that let you and others do that yourselves.
All they have to do is leave this server and 5e programs running and start a new server rack with the 5.5e port running on that one.
The master tier subscriptions and digital content going for a few years.
New master tier subscriptions and digital content sales should be able to pay for the new set up.
We all know that subscription prices WILL go up next year(they always do) so the old price would give you access to 5e and the new price will give you access to both.
Everything in this site is digital including ALL financial transactions. They can see minute by minute exactly how much everything is bringing in. They see each exact breakdown of all the old sales and new sales. All the month to month subscriptions and exactly what each member is paying for now and has paid for in the past.
They even know all the players in each of your campaigns and when everyone of them is using this site. They can watch your dice rolls.
They have a very very good idea of exactly how many of you will likely buy the new content as fast as possible, those who will wait and those who will almost never buy anything.
Running a second server rack is cheap insurance to help keep the old players and not give some third party the opportunity to make something better and fill in the gap they leave by stopping online support for 5e. Just like 3e kept selling 5e will keep selling. not much but it will keep selling. Plus as time goes on they could drop the digital price of all things 5e just to keep the interest and online sales.
Not to derail the thread, and I do agree with you with one caveat that being :
The only reason I have ever spent a bent penny on DDB has been for the character builder and interactive character sheet. Without these tools there is 0 value to me on this site.
I don't care if those are the only things that work for legacy content as long as they work.
I also do not se this being an issue anytime soon.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
That's a valid point, but easily remedied. Just have a toggle that bars one or the other. Of course, whether DDB implements such a solution is another question.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.