1. What happens when a Beholder sees itself in a mirror?
Answer: Same as what will happen when a dog sees itself in a mirror? Dogs and Beholders both territorial. So they will definitely kill the reflection.
2. What happens when a PC hides behind a gigantic head to toe type mirror? Can the beholder still attacks the PC?
Answer: No. Because there is no line of sight. It can attack the mirror though.
3. What if the mirror is small? Can the beholder eye rays power be reflective?
Answer: Only light is reflective according to Perkins.
4. What if the mirror is actually a portal to another dimension, plane or etc?
Answer: The Light and Power goes through but whoever hiding behind it will not be affected.
5. BTW, the central eye of the beholder controls the anti magic cone. So while in this cone, the beholder eye rays are actually useless. So how do you kill a beholder? Get him distracted by by a mirror so you definitely know where the cone is facing, hide behind the mirror and then on your turn shoot arrows and blind the beholder main eye. Once the anti magic cone is gone, you know what to do.
In conclusion, a gigantic mirror is very useful. Dont ever go anywhere hunting beholders without one.
PS Dont take it too seriously because the strategy given here only works if your DM allows it. If he doesnt, you can tell that he's a jerk.
Beholders have a 17 int. They will be smarter than anyone in the party except the wizard and artificer. They know what a mirror is, and understand that they are seeing their own reflection.
Why can't the beholder just float around to the side of the mirror and blast you?
Anyway, I feel like a beholder's lair might be full of mirrors. It'd be very confusing for intruders and it would let the monster gaze upon its own reflection a lot, which I think it would be interested in doing, considering they're described as thinking themselves the pinnacle of their kind.
They are shoot first creature. If they dont they may get killed if the other beholder happens to be real and hostile. Also, they are territorial creature. They bite first when they feel threatened. Thats just the nature of territorial creature. It has nothing to do with intelligence. Lastly, being intelligent doesnt mean that it is smart. Havent met those people before?
1. What happens when a Beholder sees itself in a mirror?
Answer: Same as what will happen when a dog sees itself in a mirror? Dogs and Beholders both territorial. So they will definitely kill the reflection.
2. What happens when a PC hides behind a gigantic head to toe type mirror? Can the beholder still attacks the PC?
Answer: No. Because there is no line of sight. It can attack the mirror though.
3. What if the mirror is small? Can the beholder eye rays power be reflective?
Answer: Only light is reflective according to Perkins.
4. What if the mirror is actually a portal to another dimension, plane or etc?
Answer: The Light and Power goes through but whoever hiding behind it will not be affected.
5. BTW, the central eye of the beholder controls the anti magic cone. So while in this cone, the beholder eye rays are actually useless. So how do you kill a beholder? Get him distracted by by a mirror so you definitely know where the cone is facing, hide behind the mirror and then on your turn shoot arrows and blind the beholder main eye. Once the anti magic cone is gone, you know what to do.
In conclusion, a gigantic mirror is very useful. Dont ever go anywhere hunting beholders without one.
PS Dont take it too seriously because the strategy given here only works if your DM allows it. If he doesnt, you can tell that he's a jerk.
Why would a creature with 15 WIS and 17 INT assume that a mirror image of itself is another Beholder? That's dog-level intelligence; even a commoner shouldn't be fooled by it.
Also, most of the beholder's abilities target creatures. They couldn't target a mirror with most of them if they tried. and if they use a Disintegrate Ray, poof, no more mirror (note, they would only do this if they were annoyed by it, not because they were fooled.)
And a DM that won't let your silly attempt to fool a highly intelligent creature is not a jerk, they are a smart DM
I have already explained it. Its a shoot first creature. They can target object. So if they target the mirror which the rays dont work... more reason to be drawn by it... so literally distracted by it. You have already answered your own question.
Well, any DMs that simply cant handle people that think out of the box has nothing to do with the fact whether he's smart or not. But if he cant get the concept then it means that he's not smart. Smart people always think out of the box. The ability to think out of the box makes them smart people. Hope you have learned something here.
Their wisdom is 15. They're an intelligent species, so I really don't think they're going to fall for that. Xanathar, for example, is a beholder.
Do you want to count how many times the Xanathar has disintegrated its own shadow?
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All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
PS Dont take it too seriously because the strategy given here only works if your DM allows it. If he doesnt, you can tell that he's a jerk.
If your player is being disruptive, you can tell them they are a jerk. Anyways, if you do not like the how your GM is running the game, then leave and run your own game. There is a strong demand for GMs right now, so as long as you are not horrible, you can find players to enjoy the game with you.
I have already explained it. Its a shoot first creature. They can target object. So if they target the mirror which the rays dont work... more reason to be drawn by it... so literally distracted by it. You have already answered your own question.
Well, any DMs that simply cant handle people that think out of the box has nothing to do with the fact whether he's smart or not. But if he cant get the concept then it means that he's not smart. Smart people always think out of the box. The ability to think out of the box makes them smart people. Hope you have learned something here.
What you have explained is not a Beholder. What you have explained is someone's homebrew. Goblin Slayer has no official ties with Wizards, and it is not source of canon lore.
I have already explained it. Its a shoot first creature. They can target object. So if they target the mirror which the rays dont work... more reason to be drawn by it... so literally distracted by it. You have already answered your own question.
Well, any DMs that simply cant handle people that think out of the box has nothing to do with the fact whether he's smart or not. But if he cant get the concept then it means that he's not smart. Smart people always think out of the box. The ability to think out of the box makes them smart people. Hope you have learned something here.
Yeah, you keep on saying things that aren't really true. Thinking outside the box isn't necessarily something that make syou "smart", it makes you creative and/or inventive. A Beholder has Int 17 and Wisdom 15, they won't be fooled by a mirror. Not sure where you get the whole "shoot first" idea from but just as all dogs aren't the same, neither are beholders and even if they were, which they aren't, "shoot first" doesn't mean "stupid" or that they would be fooled by a mirror. And of course, Goblin Slayer is completely irrelevant to anything D&D related, unless you are actually playing in a game that uses GS as the 100% canon setting for the game.
That said, not sure what the purpose of this post is. Clearly your claims are wrong and your idea with the mirror wouldn't work.
Let's say for sake of argument that this works. That the beholder is momentarily distracted by the mirror.
The absolute most you're going to get out of that is it fires one beam at it maybe before it figures out what's going on, IF it's jumpy enough to attack before figuring it out. And because Beholders are highly intelligent creatures, it's not going to be fooled for more than a split second.
I don't think even under a best case scenario that it's going to accomplish much besides giving you full cover if the mirror IS large enough to do that. And if it is that large, well have fun dragging it into the beholder's presence without it noticing.
I have already explained it. Its a shoot first creature. They can target object. So if they target the mirror which the rays dont work... more reason to be drawn by it... so literally distracted by it. You have already answered your own question.
They can target objects with only 2 of their 10 rays, and one of those would instantly disintegrate the mirror. Even if (and that is a huuuuuuge if) you fooled the thing into firing a random eye ray at the mirror, the second one is going to be disintegration on that mirror (and then only if it was annoyed), and it would still have 1 more ray that turn, plus 3 more during other turns, to torment the holder of that mirror, because they annoyed it.
Well, any DMs that simply cant handle people that think out of the box has nothing to do with the fact whether he's smart or not. But if he cant get the concept then it means that he's not smart. Smart people always think out of the box. The ability to think out of the box makes them smart people. Hope you have learned something here.
Creative people think outside the box. Smart people recognize that not all creative solutions work. Any fool can brainstorm an idea, and a creative fool can brainstorm a lot of bad ones. A smart person evaluates the tactic and determines if it will work. A smart person will realize that in this case, even if the tactic worked flawlessly (and it is highly unlikely to), it wont work for long. A smart person will realize that this is a baaaaad idea.
Beholders are not dogs, or even average people, and they won't be fooled by simple tricks. They are Albert Einstein with intense paranoia, 360 degree vision and a boat-load of laser guns.
That said, I think my next beholder enemy will have a petrified dude holding a giant mirror up, because that is a funny image.
The difference between a brilliant general and a mediocre one is the fact that a brilliant knows a trick only works for a short period of time and the short period of time is enough to gain a tactical advantage to win a battle. An mediocre one may simply thought of it but reluctant to employ it because its not a permanent solution and thus missing the opportunity and hence lose the battle.
In short, you are missing the point totally. Beholders are not dogs but when they behave like dogs, they are dogs. Its not what they are that makes them who they are. You can have two dogs that look exactly the same but they behave completely differently. One may be acting tough but scare easy. The other may be weak but can stand its ground. When a beholder sees another beholder, they go berserk. When they go berserk, they dont think straight. When they dont think straight thats the time to kill them. I dont understand why you cant understand this train of thought. Its very logical. When people go berserk, no matter how smart they are they dont think logically. They go with impulse. So being smart has nothing to do with what you say.
Lastly, this is a rpg and hence at some point theres a roleplaying element to it. If the DM is not roleplaying its beholder then this becomes a computer game. As such, it will suck out some fun. My honest advice, dont be a guy that sucks out all the fun.
P.S. As it turns out, a party of 6 level 6/7 PCs killed Xanathar. Sometimes luck do play a part in gameplay. I didnt get petrified, put to sleep, frightened, charmed and poisoned. It was close to kill me with disintegration but I didnt die.
Yes, a temporary deception can be put to great effect. I still think a creature as intelligent as a beholder would recognize a giant mirror though rather than assuming he's seeing another beholder. Not to mentoin the effort of getting such a large mirror into place without the beholder noticing in the first plac.e
The difference between a brilliant general and a mediocre one is the fact that a brilliant knows a trick only works for a short period of time and the short period of time is enough to gain a tactical advantage to win a battle. An mediocre one may simply thought of it but reluctant to employ it because its not a permanent solution and thus missing the opportunity and hence lose the battle.
That assumes you have a real and valid trick, not a "look over there, sike" distraction. Seriously, at best, this sacrifices 2 out of 6/7 eye rays the thing can use in the first round. at worst it sacrifices none and it just laughs while killing you.
In short, you are missing the point totally. Beholders are not dogs but when they behave like dogs, they are dogs. Its not what they are that makes them who they are. You can have two dogs that look exactly the same but they behave completely differently. One may be acting tough but scare easy. The other may be weak but can stand its ground. When a beholder sees another beholder, they go berserk. When they go berserk, they dont think straight. When they dont think straight thats the time to kill them. I dont understand why you cant understand this train of thought. Its very logical. When people go berserk, no matter how smart they are they dont think logically. They go with impulse. So being smart has nothing to do with what you say.
Where in the MM does it say they go "berserk"? It says they hate other beholders, but only as much as they hate everything else
From the Monster Manual: The disdain a beholder has for other creatures extends to other beholders.
That's it. It's an "I don't like them either" not: "I go crazy when I see them"
Lastly, this is a rpg and hence at some point theres a roleplaying element to it. If the DM is not roleplaying its beholder then this becomes a computer game. As such, it will suck out some fun. My honest advice, dont be a guy that sucks out all the fun.
Plenty of fun ways to RP a Beholder that don't involve making it dumb as a box of rocks.
P.S. As it turns out, a party of 6 level 6/7 PCs killed Xanathar. Sometimes luck do play a part in gameplay. I didnt get petrified, put to sleep, frightened, charmed and poisoned. It was close to kill me with disintegration but I didnt die.
I'm glad you got lucky. 6 PCs do make the game a little easier that way.
The real question here is whether the eye rays of a beholder can be reflected ( and if so how big a mirror do you need. Appearently Perkens (from WOtC?) has ruled they can’t but the “rays “ from basilisks and Medusa’s can. I would also look at some of the wand descriptions to see if they can be reflected. Personally I disagree but that is simply my homebrew, even there you need to have a mirror big enough to catch the entire ray so you need to make a Dex save to bounce it and a second to bounce it back at the beholder. In theory you could do this with the anti magic ray rendering all the beholder’s eye rays non functional for at least a round along with its innate magical telekinesis/ flight ability. But you would need a damn big mirror to do that.
The real question here is whether the eye rays of a beholder can be reflected ( and if so how big a mirror do you need. Appearently Perkens (from WOtC?) has ruled they can’t but the “rays “ from basilisks and Medusa’s can. I would also look at some of the wand descriptions to see if they can be reflected. Personally I disagree but that is simply my homebrew, even there you need to have a mirror big enough to catch the entire ray so you need to make a Dex save to bounce it and a second to bounce it back at the beholder. In theory you could do this with the anti magic ray rendering all the beholder’s eye rays non functional for at least a round along with its innate magical telekinesis/ flight ability. But you would need a damn big mirror to do that.
Basilisk and Medusa don't have "rays", they have a gaze. The effect you are mentioning is built into the creatures statblock for that ability. There is no such mention in the Beholder's Statblock, so the Rules as Written would say you cannot reflect the rays with a mirror. A DM might allow it, but that would be a house rule, not the main rule, for the creature.
We're not missing the point. We just disagree with you. We don't think a beholder in D&D would fall for the mirror trick and we see no reason to assume the beams could be reflected by a mirror. Goblin Slayer is irrelevant to D&D lore, it doesn't matter what tricks they pull off there.
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1. What happens when a Beholder sees itself in a mirror?
Answer: Same as what will happen when a dog sees itself in a mirror? Dogs and Beholders both territorial. So they will definitely kill the reflection.
2. What happens when a PC hides behind a gigantic head to toe type mirror? Can the beholder still attacks the PC?
Answer: No. Because there is no line of sight. It can attack the mirror though.
3. What if the mirror is small? Can the beholder eye rays power be reflective?
Answer: Only light is reflective according to Perkins.
4. What if the mirror is actually a portal to another dimension, plane or etc?
Answer: The Light and Power goes through but whoever hiding behind it will not be affected.
5. BTW, the central eye of the beholder controls the anti magic cone. So while in this cone, the beholder eye rays are actually useless. So how do you kill a beholder? Get him distracted by by a mirror so you definitely know where the cone is facing, hide behind the mirror and then on your turn shoot arrows and blind the beholder main eye. Once the anti magic cone is gone, you know what to do.
In conclusion, a gigantic mirror is very useful. Dont ever go anywhere hunting beholders without one.
PS Dont take it too seriously because the strategy given here only works if your DM allows it. If he doesnt, you can tell that he's a jerk.
Beholders have a 17 int. They will be smarter than anyone in the party except the wizard and artificer. They know what a mirror is, and understand that they are seeing their own reflection.
Guess you need to read Goblin Slayer before you reply here.
Why can't the beholder just float around to the side of the mirror and blast you?
Anyway, I feel like a beholder's lair might be full of mirrors. It'd be very confusing for intruders and it would let the monster gaze upon its own reflection a lot, which I think it would be interested in doing, considering they're described as thinking themselves the pinnacle of their kind.
They are shoot first creature. If they dont they may get killed if the other beholder happens to be real and hostile. Also, they are territorial creature. They bite first when they feel threatened. Thats just the nature of territorial creature. It has nothing to do with intelligence. Lastly, being intelligent doesnt mean that it is smart. Havent met those people before?
Their wisdom is 15. They're an intelligent species, so I really don't think they're going to fall for that. Xanathar, for example, is a beholder.
Why would a creature with 15 WIS and 17 INT assume that a mirror image of itself is another Beholder? That's dog-level intelligence; even a commoner shouldn't be fooled by it.
Also, most of the beholder's abilities target creatures. They couldn't target a mirror with most of them if they tried. and if they use a Disintegrate Ray, poof, no more mirror (note, they would only do this if they were annoyed by it, not because they were fooled.)
And a DM that won't let your silly attempt to fool a highly intelligent creature is not a jerk, they are a smart DM
I have already explained it. Its a shoot first creature. They can target object. So if they target the mirror which the rays dont work... more reason to be drawn by it... so literally distracted by it. You have already answered your own question.
Well, any DMs that simply cant handle people that think out of the box has nothing to do with the fact whether he's smart or not. But if he cant get the concept then it means that he's not smart. Smart people always think out of the box. The ability to think out of the box makes them smart people. Hope you have learned something here.
Do you want to count how many times the Xanathar has disintegrated its own shadow?
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homebrew (Mostly Outdated): Magic Items, Monsters, Spells, Subclasses
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
If your player is being disruptive, you can tell them they are a jerk. Anyways, if you do not like the how your GM is running the game, then leave and run your own game. There is a strong demand for GMs right now, so as long as you are not horrible, you can find players to enjoy the game with you.
What you have explained is not a Beholder. What you have explained is someone's homebrew. Goblin Slayer has no official ties with Wizards, and it is not source of canon lore.
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Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
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Yeah, you keep on saying things that aren't really true. Thinking outside the box isn't necessarily something that make syou "smart", it makes you creative and/or inventive. A Beholder has Int 17 and Wisdom 15, they won't be fooled by a mirror. Not sure where you get the whole "shoot first" idea from but just as all dogs aren't the same, neither are beholders and even if they were, which they aren't, "shoot first" doesn't mean "stupid" or that they would be fooled by a mirror. And of course, Goblin Slayer is completely irrelevant to anything D&D related, unless you are actually playing in a game that uses GS as the 100% canon setting for the game.
That said, not sure what the purpose of this post is. Clearly your claims are wrong and your idea with the mirror wouldn't work.
Let's say for sake of argument that this works. That the beholder is momentarily distracted by the mirror.
The absolute most you're going to get out of that is it fires one beam at it maybe before it figures out what's going on, IF it's jumpy enough to attack before figuring it out. And because Beholders are highly intelligent creatures, it's not going to be fooled for more than a split second.
I don't think even under a best case scenario that it's going to accomplish much besides giving you full cover if the mirror IS large enough to do that. And if it is that large, well have fun dragging it into the beholder's presence without it noticing.
They can target objects with only 2 of their 10 rays, and one of those would instantly disintegrate the mirror. Even if (and that is a huuuuuuge if) you fooled the thing into firing a random eye ray at the mirror, the second one is going to be disintegration on that mirror (and then only if it was annoyed), and it would still have 1 more ray that turn, plus 3 more during other turns, to torment the holder of that mirror, because they annoyed it.
Creative people think outside the box. Smart people recognize that not all creative solutions work. Any fool can brainstorm an idea, and a creative fool can brainstorm a lot of bad ones. A smart person evaluates the tactic and determines if it will work. A smart person will realize that in this case, even if the tactic worked flawlessly (and it is highly unlikely to), it wont work for long. A smart person will realize that this is a baaaaad idea.
Beholders are not dogs, or even average people, and they won't be fooled by simple tricks. They are Albert Einstein with intense paranoia, 360 degree vision and a boat-load of laser guns.
That said, I think my next beholder enemy will have a petrified dude holding a giant mirror up, because that is a funny image.
The difference between a brilliant general and a mediocre one is the fact that a brilliant knows a trick only works for a short period of time and the short period of time is enough to gain a tactical advantage to win a battle. An mediocre one may simply thought of it but reluctant to employ it because its not a permanent solution and thus missing the opportunity and hence lose the battle.
In short, you are missing the point totally. Beholders are not dogs but when they behave like dogs, they are dogs. Its not what they are that makes them who they are. You can have two dogs that look exactly the same but they behave completely differently. One may be acting tough but scare easy. The other may be weak but can stand its ground. When a beholder sees another beholder, they go berserk. When they go berserk, they dont think straight. When they dont think straight thats the time to kill them. I dont understand why you cant understand this train of thought. Its very logical. When people go berserk, no matter how smart they are they dont think logically. They go with impulse. So being smart has nothing to do with what you say.
Lastly, this is a rpg and hence at some point theres a roleplaying element to it. If the DM is not roleplaying its beholder then this becomes a computer game. As such, it will suck out some fun. My honest advice, dont be a guy that sucks out all the fun.
P.S. As it turns out, a party of 6 level 6/7 PCs killed Xanathar. Sometimes luck do play a part in gameplay. I didnt get petrified, put to sleep, frightened, charmed and poisoned. It was close to kill me with disintegration but I didnt die.
Yes, a temporary deception can be put to great effect. I still think a creature as intelligent as a beholder would recognize a giant mirror though rather than assuming he's seeing another beholder. Not to mentoin the effort of getting such a large mirror into place without the beholder noticing in the first plac.e
That assumes you have a real and valid trick, not a "look over there, sike" distraction. Seriously, at best, this sacrifices 2 out of 6/7 eye rays the thing can use in the first round. at worst it sacrifices none and it just laughs while killing you.
Where in the MM does it say they go "berserk"? It says they hate other beholders, but only as much as they hate everything else
From the Monster Manual: The disdain a beholder has for other creatures extends to other beholders.
That's it. It's an "I don't like them either" not: "I go crazy when I see them"
Plenty of fun ways to RP a Beholder that don't involve making it dumb as a box of rocks.
I'm glad you got lucky. 6 PCs do make the game a little easier that way.
The real question here is whether the eye rays of a beholder can be reflected ( and if so how big a mirror do you need. Appearently Perkens (from WOtC?) has ruled they can’t but the “rays “ from basilisks and Medusa’s can. I would also look at some of the wand descriptions to see if they can be reflected. Personally I disagree but that is simply my homebrew, even there you need to have a mirror big enough to catch the entire ray so you need to make a Dex save to bounce it and a second to bounce it back at the beholder. In theory you could do this with the anti magic ray rendering all the beholder’s eye rays non functional for at least a round along with its innate magical telekinesis/ flight ability. But you would need a damn big mirror to do that.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Basilisk and Medusa don't have "rays", they have a gaze. The effect you are mentioning is built into the creatures statblock for that ability. There is no such mention in the Beholder's Statblock, so the Rules as Written would say you cannot reflect the rays with a mirror. A DM might allow it, but that would be a house rule, not the main rule, for the creature.
Still missing the point. You guys need to watch Goblin Slayer to see how this is done correctly.
We're not missing the point. We just disagree with you. We don't think a beholder in D&D would fall for the mirror trick and we see no reason to assume the beams could be reflected by a mirror. Goblin Slayer is irrelevant to D&D lore, it doesn't matter what tricks they pull off there.