I understand that players can combine their Bastions, and the example shows a two-player example. I am running groups of 4-7 players, and many want to combine Bastions, which means they'll be making massive keeps or businesses in certain instances. Not that I care. More money and items to be pilfered by NPC baddies. :P I don't mind any mechanic that makes the players feel more ownership in the world or continues to set them up as heroes. But it feels like the set up for Bastions still has some points to iron out.
The clarification I seek is this: How many of a single specialty facility can be in a combined Bastion at one time? Could, say, four players each have a smithy? Or would it be one smithy belonging to one player for the (combined) entire bastion? Do you think combining duplicate facilities into the next larger facility makes sense? It seems like a bastion where more than three characters all take workshops, and then the game would sort of grind to a halt as the adventurers retired to open a mini-mart!
I have some ideas as a DM, but I'm trying to understand RAI so I can better adjudicate. And I'd like to get as close to the designers' intent as possible.
I'm also wondering if more Bastion specialty facilities are coming. In the meantime, I'm creating a Treasury and Jail that I'm happy to share here.
Thanks in advance for all of your thoughts.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Old enough to be a Grognard, Young at heart enough to enjoy 5e
It looks like the extent of combining bastions is getting to lend defenders to those at the same location. Everything else is separate:
"Two or more players can combine their characters’ Bastions into a single structure. Doing so doesn’t change the number of special facilities each Bastion can have, how those special facilities work, or who issues orders to each Bastion. Each Bastion retains its own hirelings, which can’t be sent to or shared with another Bastion. Bastion Defenders are handled differently: if some event deprives one character’s Bastion of defenders, another character can apply all or some of those losses to their Bastion instead, provided the two Bastions are combined."
So, rules allow for players to have whatever special facilities they want, even if players have the same ones. But currently, it doesn't seem like there's any synergy or efficiency in doing so (in terms of how those facilities function). And all of them would technically still be individual facilities, functioning on their own, each controlled by the owning player.
My guess is that these are fairly simple mechanics to keep them from distracting too much from the main story line. I'm sure that duplicate facilities, like smithies mentioned above, could be flavored to look like one big one, but the floor area would still be equal to the sum of all the individual ones. And if one was damaged, only that one would be damaged, etc.
The clarification I seek is this: How many of a single specialty facility can be in a combined Bastion at one time? Could, say, four players each have a smithy? Or would it be one smithy belonging to one player for the (combined) entire bastion? Do you think combining duplicate facilities into the next larger facility makes sense? It seems like a bastion where more than three characters all take workshops, and then the game would sort of grind to a halt as the adventurers retired to open a mini-mart!
Addressing this specific question... It works under the rules if the four players want to make the same choice. Suddenly, their bastion is an arcade housing some of the best smiths in the region—each with their own space.
I don't think it slows the game down, as the Bastion Turn does not need the characters present to happen. Further, it would limit their range of choices as a group. Diversifying the types of bastions gives the group broader options for their Bastion Turns.
If they want to build four smithies, I’d let them go for it. They’re giving up the option to have something else.
But I would be careful depending on the game world, as smithies make magic weapons. If it’s a low magic world, they’ll throw that concept out the window. If they’re planning to pump out +1 weapons as a cash cow, I’d let them know there’s not really any market for them, so they’re likely to have a big pile of unused magic weapons. And if they outfit their guards with magic weapons, there’s not really any benefit to it, either.
If they want to build four smithies, I’d let them go for it. They’re giving up the option to have something else.
But I would be careful depending on the game world, as smithies make magic weapons. If it’s a low magic world, they’ll throw that concept out the window. If they’re planning to pump out +1 weapons as a cash cow, I’d let them know there’s not really any market for them, so they’re likely to have a big pile of unused magic weapons. And if they outfit their guards with magic weapons, there’s not really any benefit to it, either.
That’s a consideration for any of the crafting facilities though, and the time and gold costs are checks on how much of that they can do.
There’s one potential interaction that could come up between different players’ facilities in the same structure: depending how exactly the DM interprets the wording, just having a Smithy in the same complex as an Armory can provide the discount on Armory costs. It depends how strictly the DM interprets “your Bastion”, but considering it takes 3 5th level facilities to make the combination, I’d say rewarding cooperation is better than making people feel forced to take a downgrade in facility picks.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I understand that players can combine their Bastions, and the example shows a two-player example. I am running groups of 4-7 players, and many want to combine Bastions, which means they'll be making massive keeps or businesses in certain instances. Not that I care. More money and items to be pilfered by NPC baddies. :P
I don't mind any mechanic that makes the players feel more ownership in the world or continues to set them up as heroes. But it feels like the set up for Bastions still has some points to iron out.
The clarification I seek is this: How many of a single specialty facility can be in a combined Bastion at one time? Could, say, four players each have a smithy? Or would it be one smithy belonging to one player for the (combined) entire bastion? Do you think combining duplicate facilities into the next larger facility makes sense? It seems like a bastion where more than three characters all take workshops, and then the game would sort of grind to a halt as the adventurers retired to open a mini-mart!
I have some ideas as a DM, but I'm trying to understand RAI so I can better adjudicate. And I'd like to get as close to the designers' intent as possible.
I'm also wondering if more Bastion specialty facilities are coming. In the meantime, I'm creating a Treasury and Jail that I'm happy to share here.
Thanks in advance for all of your thoughts.
Old enough to be a Grognard,
Young at heart enough to enjoy 5e
It looks like the extent of combining bastions is getting to lend defenders to those at the same location. Everything else is separate:
"Two or more players can combine their characters’ Bastions into a single structure. Doing so doesn’t change the number of special facilities each Bastion can have, how those special facilities work, or who issues orders to each Bastion. Each Bastion retains its own hirelings, which can’t be sent to or shared with another Bastion. Bastion Defenders are handled differently: if some event deprives one character’s Bastion of defenders, another character can apply all or some of those losses to their Bastion instead, provided the two Bastions are combined."
So, rules allow for players to have whatever special facilities they want, even if players have the same ones. But currently, it doesn't seem like there's any synergy or efficiency in doing so (in terms of how those facilities function). And all of them would technically still be individual facilities, functioning on their own, each controlled by the owning player.
My guess is that these are fairly simple mechanics to keep them from distracting too much from the main story line. I'm sure that duplicate facilities, like smithies mentioned above, could be flavored to look like one big one, but the floor area would still be equal to the sum of all the individual ones. And if one was damaged, only that one would be damaged, etc.
Addressing this specific question... It works under the rules if the four players want to make the same choice. Suddenly, their bastion is an arcade housing some of the best smiths in the region—each with their own space.
I don't think it slows the game down, as the Bastion Turn does not need the characters present to happen. Further, it would limit their range of choices as a group. Diversifying the types of bastions gives the group broader options for their Bastion Turns.
tl;dr? They can, but it's self-limiting.
If they want to build four smithies, I’d let them go for it. They’re giving up the option to have something else.
But I would be careful depending on the game world, as smithies make magic weapons. If it’s a low magic world, they’ll throw that concept out the window. If they’re planning to pump out +1 weapons as a cash cow, I’d let them know there’s not really any market for them, so they’re likely to have a big pile of unused magic weapons. And if they outfit their guards with magic weapons, there’s not really any benefit to it, either.
That’s a consideration for any of the crafting facilities though, and the time and gold costs are checks on how much of that they can do.
There’s one potential interaction that could come up between different players’ facilities in the same structure: depending how exactly the DM interprets the wording, just having a Smithy in the same complex as an Armory can provide the discount on Armory costs. It depends how strictly the DM interprets “your Bastion”, but considering it takes 3 5th level facilities to make the combination, I’d say rewarding cooperation is better than making people feel forced to take a downgrade in facility picks.