I have a Half-Elf Rogue/Ranger. Here's the breakdown for skill choices:
Half-Elf - Skill Versatility - Choose any two - Choose Nature and Survival
Rogue 1 - No skill overlap with Nature or Survival in the skill list. (Choose those with a *) - * Acrobatics - Athletics - Deception - Insight - Intimidation - * Investigation - * Perception - Performance - Persuasion - Sleight of Hand - * Stealth - Expertise (requires to be put with an already proficient skill or with thieves' tools) - Nature - Survival
Background - Outlander - Adds Athletics proficiency - Allowed to choose any non-proficient skill of your choice due to overlap with Survival - Pick Persuasion
Ranger 1 - Skill list for proficiency limited to those character isn't already proficient in Choose Athletics
All good so far. Now, as my Rogue hits level 3, I choose the Scout option. This grants me:
Survivalist
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in the Nature and Survival skills if you don’t already have it. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses either of those proficiencies.
When I select that, I get the following errors:
Racial Trait Proficiency Removed The Survival proficiency was removed from the "Skill Versatility" racial trait. Choose a new proficiency skill in the Race section.
Racial Trait Proficiency Removed The Nature proficiency was removed from the "Skill Versatility" racial trait. Choose a new proficiency skill in the Race section.
Am I really supposed to pick new proficiencies at this point? If I had a character that was already proficient, Survivalist says nothing about picking other skills to be proficient in as a replacement and I don't think the rules would be allowing that either.
Also, I am already equipped with Expertise in both Survival and Nature from my initial pick at Rogue 1. By picking Scout am I basically punting on getting the bonus from Survivalist because of the archtype I chose? Survivalist doesn't say that it grants expertise, so is it effectively saying that if I already have expertise, then that is doubled, giving me 4x proficiency on Nature and Survival checks?!! (PHB explicitly states you only get one doubling effect and they don't stack).
It seems like a really odd design choice that I can effectively go back and rewrite my character once I hit level 3 to have all new skill proficiencies and expertise just because I selected an archetype with a conflict. That doesn't even make sense from an RP perspective that suddenly my character is great at stuff it wasn't so good at before, for no real good reason.
Please remember that multiclassing is an optional rule, and that interactions can create unforeseen complications. Also scout is from Xanthars so it can create problems.
I think they are stuck on this from the PHB which happens to come from the backgrounds section but is worded oddly:
Proficiencies
Each background gives a character proficiency in two skills (described in chapter 7, "Using Ability Scores").
In addition, most backgrounds give a character proficiency with one or more tools (detailed in chapter 5, "Equipment").
If a character would gain the same proficiency from two different sources, he or she can choose a different proficiency of the same kind (skill or tool) instead.
I found this when creating a character on the site so it might shine some insight. Made a Rogue/Thief level 4 and sleight of hand had the proficiency bubble filled in plus an additional circle around it. It was saying since Dex was so high, I got to add my proficiency twice to that ability. Is that expertise?
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I have a Half-Elf Rogue/Ranger. Here's the breakdown for skill choices:
Half-Elf
- Skill Versatility
- Choose any two
- Choose Nature and Survival
Rogue 1
- No skill overlap with Nature or Survival in the skill list. (Choose those with a *)
- * Acrobatics
- Athletics
- Deception
- Insight
- Intimidation
- * Investigation
- * Perception
- Performance
- Persuasion
- Sleight of Hand
- * Stealth
- Expertise (requires to be put with an already proficient skill or with thieves' tools)
- Nature
- Survival
Background
- Outlander
- Adds Athletics proficiency
- Allowed to choose any non-proficient skill of your choice due to overlap with Survival
- Pick Persuasion
Ranger 1
- Skill list for proficiency limited to those character isn't already proficient in
Choose Athletics
All good so far. Now, as my Rogue hits level 3, I choose the Scout option. This grants me:
Survivalist
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency in the Nature and Survival skills if you don’t already have it. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses either of those proficiencies.
When I select that, I get the following errors:
Racial Trait Proficiency Removed
The Survival proficiency was removed from the "Skill Versatility" racial trait. Choose a new proficiency skill in the Race section.
Racial Trait Proficiency Removed
The Nature proficiency was removed from the "Skill Versatility" racial trait. Choose a new proficiency skill in the Race section.
Am I really supposed to pick new proficiencies at this point? If I had a character that was already proficient, Survivalist says nothing about picking other skills to be proficient in as a replacement and I don't think the rules would be allowing that either.
Also, I am already equipped with Expertise in both Survival and Nature from my initial pick at Rogue 1. By picking Scout am I basically punting on getting the bonus from Survivalist because of the archtype I chose?
Survivalist doesn't say that it grants expertise, so is it effectively saying that if I already have expertise, then that is doubled, giving me 4x proficiency on Nature and Survival checks?!!(PHB explicitly states you only get one doubling effect and they don't stack).It seems like a really odd design choice that I can effectively go back and rewrite my character once I hit level 3 to have all new skill proficiencies and expertise just because I selected an archetype with a conflict. That doesn't even make sense from an RP perspective that suddenly my character is great at stuff it wasn't so good at before, for no real good reason.
Please remember that multiclassing is an optional rule, and that interactions can create unforeseen complications. Also scout is from Xanthars so it can create problems.
I think they are stuck on this from the PHB which happens to come from the backgrounds section but is worded oddly:
Proficiencies
Each background gives a character proficiency in two skills (described in chapter 7, "Using Ability Scores").
In addition, most backgrounds give a character proficiency with one or more tools (detailed in chapter 5, "Equipment").
If a character would gain the same proficiency from two different sources, he or she can choose a different proficiency of the same kind (skill or tool) instead.
I found this when creating a character on the site so it might shine some insight. Made a Rogue/Thief level 4 and sleight of hand had the proficiency bubble filled in plus an additional circle around it. It was saying since Dex was so high, I got to add my proficiency twice to that ability. Is that expertise?