A 1st level Variant Human cleric (or any Wisdom based Class) with the Observant feat, (say 15 Wisdom +1 for human, +1 for the feat) A Wisdom score of 17 has a Passive Perception of 20. Does this mean that this character notices secret doors without rolling, basically ever? Ok Rogue move over I'll check that chest for traps, doesn't even roll, yup it is! Does a combo such as this mostly eliminate traps and an obstacle all together? Am I looking at this correctly or is there a caveat that I'm missing?
Lets say for the argument is "well he still can't disarm it." Both True and possibly false (If he had the proper background to take Thieves Tool Prof.), Still the Observant Cleric could help the Rogue find the trap, advantage on the Roll or a +5 to passive perception any rogue worth there salt would have to be sitting high teens or low twenties with help.
I get it, this a rant, but it does seem like an issue that should be addressed cause just telling the players "As you approach the door the Cleric stops dead in his tracks and points to ground, There's a pit here and I can tell that a ledge about 2 feet wide runs around it on the left side." Now that's fine from time to time but every trapped door, chest, pitfall or hidden creature using stealth (Now the last one I get seeing a hiding creature makes total sense, but this is after all MY RANT!) I don't recall off hand but I think nearly impossible task is a DC30 or about a 50/50 chance for a 1st level cleric.
You're correct, any character can take the Observant feat and end up with a ridiculously high Passive Perception score. But feats are a big deal and when you take a feat you give up an ability score increase. It's balanced overall and it's a matter of deciding what your character will be good at and what your character will not be good at.
Passive perception would be more "something is up with that wall" it takes investigation to find the door/trap. So the cleric would be a good way to trigger a rogue to roll investigation.
So your door example would be "stop guys, this doesn't feel right, *rouge's name* do you see that discoloration on the floor?"
I would agree with Noksa that your Passive score might indicate something is off, but would require further checking to determine exactly what. Also, a DC 30 task is NOT 50% chance of success. That +5 bonus is only to your Passive scores, not you actual skill bonus. Therefore a 17 Wisdom character with Proficiency in Perception would still only have a +5 bonus to Perception and therefore you literally can only succeed on a roll of a Natural 20. So, therefore succeeding at a Hard task (DC 20) on Perception, you still only have a 25% chance of success, which is accurate for a 1st level PC.
In my mind your example above would be thusly; cleric notices that something about the door just seems off, but doesn't know exactly what. He then rolls his ACTIVE Perception with the +5 bonus. Now for Stealthed creatures, its a little different because it's a contested roll as opposed to a set DC. So in that case, you do automatically notice any creatures attempting to Stealth whose roll is lower than your Passive Perception. Hopefully this has been helpful.
Does this mean that this character notices secret doors without rolling, basically ever?
No.
It means they notice the evidence of secret doors.
It's a subtle difference, but very important. Wisdom (Perception) is for perceiving something in the environment. "You notice one of the flagstones is quarter of an inch higher than the others." "You feel a cool breeze on your face." "You smell a bitter smell." "One of the keyholes has a lot more scratches around it than the other."
Its up to the players go from the perceived evidence (a breeze) and to the reason for it (a concealed door).
Passive Perception or Perception checks in general only detect what is visible or can be detected with the other senses. Secret doors, traps and other objects can be difficult or impossible to detect because of dim light or darkness, obscured by partial or full cover, or masked by distractions like loud background noise.
High Passive Perception is very useful but it isn’t an automatic “I detect everything” X-ray vision. A secret door covered in vines may be totally obscured and could only be detected by physically examining the area. A pressure plate covered in an inch of muddy water wouldn’t be visible, and the footfalls of a stalking creature would reasonably be covered by the noise of a nearby waterfall.
And as others have sad, you have to have given up an other option to improve perception. Point Buy ensures that characters remain relatively balanced.
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A 1st level Variant Human cleric (or any Wisdom based Class) with the Observant feat, (say 15 Wisdom +1 for human, +1 for the feat) A Wisdom score of 17 has a Passive Perception of 20. Does this mean that this character notices secret doors without rolling, basically ever? Ok Rogue move over I'll check that chest for traps, doesn't even roll, yup it is! Does a combo such as this mostly eliminate traps and an obstacle all together? Am I looking at this correctly or is there a caveat that I'm missing?
Lets say for the argument is "well he still can't disarm it." Both True and possibly false (If he had the proper background to take Thieves Tool Prof.), Still the Observant Cleric could help the Rogue find the trap, advantage on the Roll or a +5 to passive perception any rogue worth there salt would have to be sitting high teens or low twenties with help.
I get it, this a rant, but it does seem like an issue that should be addressed cause just telling the players "As you approach the door the Cleric stops dead in his tracks and points to ground, There's a pit here and I can tell that a ledge about 2 feet wide runs around it on the left side." Now that's fine from time to time but every trapped door, chest, pitfall or hidden creature using stealth (Now the last one I get seeing a hiding creature makes total sense, but this is after all MY RANT!) I don't recall off hand but I think nearly impossible task is a DC30 or about a 50/50 chance for a 1st level cleric.
You're correct, any character can take the Observant feat and end up with a ridiculously high Passive Perception score. But feats are a big deal and when you take a feat you give up an ability score increase. It's balanced overall and it's a matter of deciding what your character will be good at and what your character will not be good at.
Professional computer geek
Passive perception would be more "something is up with that wall" it takes investigation to find the door/trap. So the cleric would be a good way to trigger a rogue to roll investigation.
So your door example would be "stop guys, this doesn't feel right, *rouge's name* do you see that discoloration on the floor?"
I would agree with Noksa that your Passive score might indicate something is off, but would require further checking to determine exactly what. Also, a DC 30 task is NOT 50% chance of success. That +5 bonus is only to your Passive scores, not you actual skill bonus. Therefore a 17 Wisdom character with Proficiency in Perception would still only have a +5 bonus to Perception and therefore you literally can only succeed on a roll of a Natural 20. So, therefore succeeding at a Hard task (DC 20) on Perception, you still only have a 25% chance of success, which is accurate for a 1st level PC.
In my mind your example above would be thusly; cleric notices that something about the door just seems off, but doesn't know exactly what. He then rolls his ACTIVE Perception with the +5 bonus. Now for Stealthed creatures, its a little different because it's a contested roll as opposed to a set DC. So in that case, you do automatically notice any creatures attempting to Stealth whose roll is lower than your Passive Perception. Hopefully this has been helpful.
Valaith "Rimehand" Kalukavi - Chronicles of Arden
No.
It means they notice the evidence of secret doors.
It's a subtle difference, but very important. Wisdom (Perception) is for perceiving something in the environment. "You notice one of the flagstones is quarter of an inch higher than the others." "You feel a cool breeze on your face." "You smell a bitter smell." "One of the keyholes has a lot more scratches around it than the other."
Its up to the players go from the perceived evidence (a breeze) and to the reason for it (a concealed door).
Passive Perception or Perception checks in general only detect what is visible or can be detected with the other senses. Secret doors, traps and other objects can be difficult or impossible to detect because of dim light or darkness, obscured by partial or full cover, or masked by distractions like loud background noise.
High Passive Perception is very useful but it isn’t an automatic “I detect everything” X-ray vision. A secret door covered in vines may be totally obscured and could only be detected by physically examining the area. A pressure plate covered in an inch of muddy water wouldn’t be visible, and the footfalls of a stalking creature would reasonably be covered by the noise of a nearby waterfall.
And as others have sad, you have to have given up an other option to improve perception. Point Buy ensures that characters remain relatively balanced.