Picking my new 3rd level spell for a storm sorcerer. So far I don't have a lot of battlefield control so I was thinking of Tidal Wave for the prone condition, but I was looking at LB's damage and I don't think I can pass on that, especially since TW can't be upcast.
What do you think, is a little bit of control worth giving up all that damage, or should I resign myself to glass-cannon status?
You're focusing a lot on the single-target damage. It's easy to get 1 or 2 creatures in a line with lightning bolt, but getting 3+ lined up is harder. Tidal wave covers a wider area so it depends less on alignment, and if you can catch just one more creature with it you've already made up the difference.
Also, demons, yugoloths, slaad, air-based elementals, and incorporeal creatures like ghosts and shadows resist or are immune to lightning damage. Only a handful of tree-based monsters will resist magical bludgeoning damage.
Interesting counterpoint. Though for crowd control I have Thunderwave that can be upcast, and sometimes you just want straight single target (or limited target, in the case of LB) if it's that big a buttload.
But, as you point out, TW doesn't just cover ground, it covers a lot *more* ground. So yeah I feel like I'm still stuck trying to decide whether that much cover is a decent trade off for that much damage?
I'd considered that. My other spells are Shield, Chaos Bolt, Thunderwave, Fog Cloud, and Invisibility. Not sure which one I'd want to lose.
My first thought is Shield since I rarely use it (my AC was 11, now 12 with a magic cape, so it's been so low that things generally would still hit with or without it) but I'm not comfortable having NO defensive spells other than Fog Cloud, y'know?
I agree with the first point, but you can't learn 3rd level spells before character level 5, and at that point your cantrips have powered up to 2 damage dice. It doesn't make sense to blow a 1st level slot for an average of 13.5 damage when a 5th level Fire Bolt will average 11 damage at no cost, and saving that 1st level slot for Shield can mean the difference between life and death (and Shield is useful at any level.)
If you did want to use a 1st level spell for damage, Catapult beats those two under normal circumstances (i.e. no advantage/disadvantage on the attack roll). It'll work better on high AC targets, won't be resisted unless you fight tree monsters (which you can just Fire Bolt anyways) and if you miss it keeps going and can strike another creature.
Anyways, if you're concerned with neutralizing a single enemy, going for big damage isn't the way to go in my opinion. In a typical scenario, you're at best 1/3rd of the party and at worst 1/6th. Any damage increase you get is diluted by the fact that there's multiple other people on your side trying to kill the enemy too, but a 3rd level slot is a huge chunk of your resources whether you damage 1 monster or 5. And if you're only concerned about 1 enemy, you can often cripple them far sooner than you can deplete their HP. Levitate or Maximilian's Earthen Grasp will seriously hinder an enemy's ability to fight back. And if you do want to kill the enemy fast, twinned Haste on the party's heavy hitters will probably add more damage over 3 rounds than a Lightning Bolt, especially if the party has a Rogue that can now Sneak Attack twice per round.
The only definitive piece of advice I can give you is that Chaos Bolt isn't pulling its weight at this point.
I'm kind of shooting myself in the foot here, but I tried to pick thematically fitting spells to go with the Storm archetype. I realize I'm not gonna end up very optimized but it's kind of an experiment in limitation that I've actually found kind of fun.
The reason I bring this up is that the 2 damaging cantrips i have are Shocking Grasp and Thunderclap. So I do rely on Chaos Bolt for range.
If you have no ranged cantrips, I'd consider trading out Thunderwave. It's hard for me to speculate without knowing what the rest of the party looks like, but I doubt it's serving an essential function. Trading it in would free you up to pick a different spell that's more likely to have a big impact on a fight like Counterspell, Levitate, Earthbind, Fly or Sleet Storm. I don't think I'd pick both Tidal Wave or Lightning Bolt though. Either one's fine, but with the very limited number of spells known you have to work with, I think it's better to diversify more.
Yeah, so far I have not often found myself in the position to use Thunderwave. I think that's what I'll do. Maybe I'll look for a level 1 or 2 control spell and lightning bolt. Not sure about grabbing haste since idk if I want 2 level 3 spells with only 2 lvl3 slots.
Ok, I think I've decided. I'm going to drop Thunderwave for Hold Person and take Tidal Wave as my 3rd level spell. That gives me spells with Wis and DeX saves, where before I basically just had Con and Str (from gust cantrip), which are the more commonly resisted among most monsters.
Then I'll probably take Lightning Bolt at a higher level, although then it's really gonna compete with Storm Sphere and Watery Sphere...
If you're asking for advice I'd say get that control because I can almost garuntee that you have other players at your table that can deal the damage. If you can be able to control the battle feild you can tactically become SOOOO much more powerful by allowing only what you want to happen to happen and giving you and your players a tactical advantage over the enemy.
Picking my new 3rd level spell for a storm sorcerer. So far I don't have a lot of battlefield control so I was thinking of Tidal Wave for the prone condition, but I was looking at LB's damage and I don't think I can pass on that, especially since TW can't be upcast.
What do you think, is a little bit of control worth giving up all that damage, or should I resign myself to glass-cannon status?
You're focusing a lot on the single-target damage. It's easy to get 1 or 2 creatures in a line with lightning bolt, but getting 3+ lined up is harder. Tidal wave covers a wider area so it depends less on alignment, and if you can catch just one more creature with it you've already made up the difference.
Also, demons, yugoloths, slaad, air-based elementals, and incorporeal creatures like ghosts and shadows resist or are immune to lightning damage. Only a handful of tree-based monsters will resist magical bludgeoning damage.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Interesting counterpoint. Though for crowd control I have Thunderwave that can be upcast, and sometimes you just want straight single target (or limited target, in the case of LB) if it's that big a buttload.
But, as you point out, TW doesn't just cover ground, it covers a lot *more* ground. So yeah I feel like I'm still stuck trying to decide whether that much cover is a decent trade off for that much damage?
Lightning bolt shouldn't be used for single targeting anyway, for that you should be using spells like chaos bolt or chromatic orb.
You can learn both spell if you want, replacing 1 of your lower level spells.
I'd considered that. My other spells are Shield, Chaos Bolt, Thunderwave, Fog Cloud, and Invisibility. Not sure which one I'd want to lose.
My first thought is Shield since I rarely use it (my AC was 11, now 12 with a magic cape, so it's been so low that things generally would still hit with or without it) but I'm not comfortable having NO defensive spells other than Fog Cloud, y'know?
I agree with the first point, but you can't learn 3rd level spells before character level 5, and at that point your cantrips have powered up to 2 damage dice. It doesn't make sense to blow a 1st level slot for an average of 13.5 damage when a 5th level Fire Bolt will average 11 damage at no cost, and saving that 1st level slot for Shield can mean the difference between life and death (and Shield is useful at any level.)
If you did want to use a 1st level spell for damage, Catapult beats those two under normal circumstances (i.e. no advantage/disadvantage on the attack roll). It'll work better on high AC targets, won't be resisted unless you fight tree monsters (which you can just Fire Bolt anyways) and if you miss it keeps going and can strike another creature.
Anyways, if you're concerned with neutralizing a single enemy, going for big damage isn't the way to go in my opinion. In a typical scenario, you're at best 1/3rd of the party and at worst 1/6th. Any damage increase you get is diluted by the fact that there's multiple other people on your side trying to kill the enemy too, but a 3rd level slot is a huge chunk of your resources whether you damage 1 monster or 5. And if you're only concerned about 1 enemy, you can often cripple them far sooner than you can deplete their HP. Levitate or Maximilian's Earthen Grasp will seriously hinder an enemy's ability to fight back. And if you do want to kill the enemy fast, twinned Haste on the party's heavy hitters will probably add more damage over 3 rounds than a Lightning Bolt, especially if the party has a Rogue that can now Sneak Attack twice per round.
The only definitive piece of advice I can give you is that Chaos Bolt isn't pulling its weight at this point.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
I'm kind of shooting myself in the foot here, but I tried to pick thematically fitting spells to go with the Storm archetype. I realize I'm not gonna end up very optimized but it's kind of an experiment in limitation that I've actually found kind of fun.
The reason I bring this up is that the 2 damaging cantrips i have are Shocking Grasp and Thunderclap. So I do rely on Chaos Bolt for range.
If you have no ranged cantrips, I'd consider trading out Thunderwave. It's hard for me to speculate without knowing what the rest of the party looks like, but I doubt it's serving an essential function. Trading it in would free you up to pick a different spell that's more likely to have a big impact on a fight like Counterspell, Levitate, Earthbind, Fly or Sleet Storm. I don't think I'd pick both Tidal Wave or Lightning Bolt though. Either one's fine, but with the very limited number of spells known you have to work with, I think it's better to diversify more.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Yeah, so far I have not often found myself in the position to use Thunderwave. I think that's what I'll do. Maybe I'll look for a level 1 or 2 control spell and lightning bolt. Not sure about grabbing haste since idk if I want 2 level 3 spells with only 2 lvl3 slots.
Ok, I think I've decided. I'm going to drop Thunderwave for Hold Person and take Tidal Wave as my 3rd level spell. That gives me spells with Wis and DeX saves, where before I basically just had Con and Str (from gust cantrip), which are the more commonly resisted among most monsters.
Then I'll probably take Lightning Bolt at a higher level, although then it's really gonna compete with Storm Sphere and Watery Sphere...
If you're asking for advice I'd say get that control because I can almost garuntee that you have other players at your table that can deal the damage. If you can be able to control the battle feild you can tactically become SOOOO much more powerful by allowing only what you want to happen to happen and giving you and your players a tactical advantage over the enemy.
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