So I, a complete newcomer to the world of D&D, recently joined a group at my college who had a campaign in-progress already. I've played with them a few weeks now (about 3-4 hours each) and was generally really excited to join them and play along. But later on I think something went awry, and I'm not entirely sure what or why.
Dilemma 1. I'm naturally introverted and have a tough time engaging in long-time social activities like this. It's ironic I know, but I had hoped that getting more into character as sessions went on would help. Apparently not, I'm afraid. Oftentimes I just end up feeling like my character is silent with her arms crossed like every cliched anti-hero loner, which isn't really how I wanted to play her. This leads into the next problem.
Dilemma 2. There's one player in our group who DMs occasionally (or so I'm told) and seems to be pretty good friends with the current DM. It may be just the established dynamic of the group because a couple of other players I notice fall back while he takes the lead, but personally it rubs me the wrong way. Ex. whenever an NPC comes up or is in some way introduced to the story or group, his character jumps in immediately without really giving us the time to react.
Dilemma 3. I have a comparatively slow reaction time compared to everyone else, which could just be because of my inexperience, and so far the dynamic of the group I feel is very fast-paced, often chaotic at times. I feel like I get perhaps one or two ability check rolls per area we go to, and it's hard for me to get a word in edgewise when I can hardly keep track of what's being said IC and OOC. So far I love the roleplaying aspect of the game, but I often feel "pulled out" of the game because of the distractions of everyone commenting OOC-ly like "oh to this action/statement/sight my character would say/do/think 'blah blah blah'" even if, in character, they didn't do so.
Are there any tips an experienced player has to combat these problems? Should I talk to my DM specifically? Should I try and look for a new group?
I'd probably talk to the DM and ask them if they could potentially try to help you get more involved in role playing. Maybe even just raise your hand and say 'excuse me' if you want to take the center stage for a moment.
First of all, welcome to the world of D&D and roleplaying.
My first point of advice to you is -- don't give up, and stick with it. What you are experiencing is not unique. Every newcomer to an existing game group is going to feel this way. If they have been playing together for a while, they are probably all good friends with each other who have in-jokes and know each other's rhythms and preferences. It is going to take some time for you to become fully integrated into this group, and until that happens, you won't always pick up on the in-jokes and you may feel "out of sync" with them. This is inevitable when adding a new person to an existing group, and there is really no way around it. (That said, there are some ways they could have worked a little harder to make you feel included, from the sound of it.)
In terms of your specific "dilemmas" -
Dilemma #1 - you don't say much. This actually isn't a problem. To quote long-time DM Matt Colville, "Whatever you like is OK." If you like to be more of a brooding observer, that's OK. Now, if this is not fun for you and you want to get her more into the action, then maybe it's a dilemma, but if you're having fun being the strong-and-silent type, that is fine. I think some of this will go away too as you become more comfortable with your group.
Dilemma #2 - It sounds like your group has settled into a pattern where this one player is more of the "spokesman" for the party. Again this is not uncommon. In fact in the old days it was required. Every party had to have one player who was designated the "caller." This was originally written into the rules, but they took it out years ago. There's no official "caller" in the rules anymore, but many groups settle into having roles... One person acts as the spokesman (like a caller), one person is the "treasurer" who keeps track of and divides the treasure, one person is the mapper, one person is the note-taker, etc. For long-time friends this is often not even discussed. In my group, everyone knew I loved mapping so I was always the guy with the graph paper who became the "mapper." They knew it was my favorite thing to do in D&D (still is!) and so they let me have at it. I did *not* like being the caller so I let other people take on that role.
But if this person taking over bugs you that much, you could try talking to the DM about it privately. Odds are as the new player the DM will want to make you more comfortable, but he/she can't know how you're feeling unless you say something. Even the best DM isn't a mind-reader.
Dilemma #3 - this is a bit of a harder one. Some of this is the group being in sync and you, as a new member, are not in rhythm with them (see above). This will go away over time as you get used to their style of playing. However, some of this is also style. There are lots of different ways to roleplay. Not every group has the players speak with the words and tone of voice of their characters. Lots of groups do it like, "My character negotiates with the shop owner for a lower price," "OK make a persuasion roll," "21!", "OK the shop owner grudgingly lowers his prices." If that is not satisfactory to you, but that's how they play, then you may be at an impasse. They're not liable to want to change their whole style of playing to suite the new person, no matter how nice they are. If speaking in voice is that important to you and this group simply does not do it, that may be an intractable problem and signal that this is not the right group for you.
However, some of this depends on how much you like these people and want to keep playing with them. If you like them and want to stick with them as friends, then one thing you can do about dilemma #3 is be an example. While they are all talking in 3rd person summaries ("My character argues with you") you can use your character's dialogue (note: without being judgmental or demanding they do it your way). You can respond to "My character argues with you," by saying something like, "Sinda Blackstar folds her arms, frowning. 'And just how do you expect to get paid, if we don't bring back the troll's head?'" Nothing may come of this but, perhaps, if they see you doing it one or two of them will think it's cool and want to try it, and the group may shift their play style.
But... do not expect it. And if the "summary RP" thing is that big of a deal-breaker then you may need to look elsewhere for D&D buddies.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
One cool roleplay trick it takes people deceptively long to figure out: A great way to take your character from wallflower to party member is simply to initiate in- character conversations.
If another character hints at a potentially mysterious backstory, have your character ask them about it. Ask them where they're from, what their home was like, maybe tell them about yourself. If your character as a clashing set of ideals from another character's, feel free to have mini debates on the subject during downtime.
If you want to flesh out your own character a little more, have them make choices, even (or especially) small ones. If your party stops at a tavern to eat, what food do they order? What kind of songs do they request? What is their alignment and how does it manifest in their personal philosophy? Character is derived from choices, and making them will get your character more out of loner status and get the party's attention.
For dilemma #3, I've seen people (myself included) have success simply raising their hand and maybe excitedly saying "Ooh! I think I have a thing for this!" That gets the group's attention (since nobody means to talk over anyone), then you can double check any ability/spell/stat you need to while you explain your plan to the party. The important thing is just to capture their attention and not feel guilty for doing so. As long as you don't abuse the hand raise and still let other players get their stuff in.
Ah, these kind of make me feel bad. I find myself to be a bit of the problem player the OP mentions in game. At least from my end, I try to make a obvious, bad accent for IC speech and drop it for OOC. As for the person taking a 'lead' role? This may just be down to person to person contact. You should sit down with both the DM and player and raise these issues. The power of human cooperation is great. If both are at least aware of the situation, the player may hesitate, allowing you to take a chance or someone else to step up. If the DM knows, they may send NPC's more inclined to interact with other players then the mentioned.
It may seem confrontational, but a discussion now saves a blow up or fight later.
It may seem confrontational, but a discussion now saves a blow up or fight later.
I don't really see this as confrontational. The key to any relationship, and a D&D party IS a relationship, is communication. I'd advise expressing your concerns not only with the DM, but with the player in question. If they're not an asshat, they'll realize they're "trampling." Tell them you'd like to be able to engage more, and maybe they'll defer to you or others in social situations. Sometimes people just don't realize they're trampling because no one speaks up about it. And if they do social interactions well, maybe they can help you along the way.
If you try any of the suggestions in this thread and get pushback or find they are unresponsive, it's perfectly ok to find another group. Or start your own. This experience should be fun for everyone involved. Don't suffer through it.
Yeah - try talking to the others. If you let them know that you're trying to engage but sometimes you need a little more time to process, then agree on some kind of hand signal or something to signal that you have an idea or a way to contribute to the scene, but you need a few seconds to put it into words. As others have mentioned - if they're not wangrods they should be happy to give you an opportunity.
Second, if they're used to playing together as group, they've likely settled into roles - the person with the high-CHA character becomes the "face" of the group, and the others tend to let that character initiate conversation so and persuasion/deception/intimidation checks are being made by the character with the best bonuses there. It's possible they don't know your character well enough to know when to let you take the lead.
(I ran into this with a druid of mine - he was a quiet character. Everyone else kept jumping in to make strength checks to get through doors and such until finally I take a crack at one and succeed easily. The reaction was "wait, you have a +4 to STR as a druid?" and I had to explain "He's a freakin' firbolg with powerful build, guys. DEX is his dump stat, not STR - that's why I have a -1 to initiative...")
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So I, a complete newcomer to the world of D&D, recently joined a group at my college who had a campaign in-progress already. I've played with them a few weeks now (about 3-4 hours each) and was generally really excited to join them and play along. But later on I think something went awry, and I'm not entirely sure what or why.
Dilemma 1. I'm naturally introverted and have a tough time engaging in long-time social activities like this. It's ironic I know, but I had hoped that getting more into character as sessions went on would help. Apparently not, I'm afraid. Oftentimes I just end up feeling like my character is silent with her arms crossed like every cliched anti-hero loner, which isn't really how I wanted to play her. This leads into the next problem.
Dilemma 2. There's one player in our group who DMs occasionally (or so I'm told) and seems to be pretty good friends with the current DM. It may be just the established dynamic of the group because a couple of other players I notice fall back while he takes the lead, but personally it rubs me the wrong way. Ex. whenever an NPC comes up or is in some way introduced to the story or group, his character jumps in immediately without really giving us the time to react.
Dilemma 3. I have a comparatively slow reaction time compared to everyone else, which could just be because of my inexperience, and so far the dynamic of the group I feel is very fast-paced, often chaotic at times. I feel like I get perhaps one or two ability check rolls per area we go to, and it's hard for me to get a word in edgewise when I can hardly keep track of what's being said IC and OOC. So far I love the roleplaying aspect of the game, but I often feel "pulled out" of the game because of the distractions of everyone commenting OOC-ly like "oh to this action/statement/sight my character would say/do/think 'blah blah blah'" even if, in character, they didn't do so.
Are there any tips an experienced player has to combat these problems? Should I talk to my DM specifically? Should I try and look for a new group?
I'd probably talk to the DM and ask them if they could potentially try to help you get more involved in role playing. Maybe even just raise your hand and say 'excuse me' if you want to take the center stage for a moment.
First of all, welcome to the world of D&D and roleplaying.
My first point of advice to you is -- don't give up, and stick with it. What you are experiencing is not unique. Every newcomer to an existing game group is going to feel this way. If they have been playing together for a while, they are probably all good friends with each other who have in-jokes and know each other's rhythms and preferences. It is going to take some time for you to become fully integrated into this group, and until that happens, you won't always pick up on the in-jokes and you may feel "out of sync" with them. This is inevitable when adding a new person to an existing group, and there is really no way around it. (That said, there are some ways they could have worked a little harder to make you feel included, from the sound of it.)
In terms of your specific "dilemmas" -
Dilemma #1 - you don't say much. This actually isn't a problem. To quote long-time DM Matt Colville, "Whatever you like is OK." If you like to be more of a brooding observer, that's OK. Now, if this is not fun for you and you want to get her more into the action, then maybe it's a dilemma, but if you're having fun being the strong-and-silent type, that is fine. I think some of this will go away too as you become more comfortable with your group.
Dilemma #2 - It sounds like your group has settled into a pattern where this one player is more of the "spokesman" for the party. Again this is not uncommon. In fact in the old days it was required. Every party had to have one player who was designated the "caller." This was originally written into the rules, but they took it out years ago. There's no official "caller" in the rules anymore, but many groups settle into having roles... One person acts as the spokesman (like a caller), one person is the "treasurer" who keeps track of and divides the treasure, one person is the mapper, one person is the note-taker, etc. For long-time friends this is often not even discussed. In my group, everyone knew I loved mapping so I was always the guy with the graph paper who became the "mapper." They knew it was my favorite thing to do in D&D (still is!) and so they let me have at it. I did *not* like being the caller so I let other people take on that role.
But if this person taking over bugs you that much, you could try talking to the DM about it privately. Odds are as the new player the DM will want to make you more comfortable, but he/she can't know how you're feeling unless you say something. Even the best DM isn't a mind-reader.
Dilemma #3 - this is a bit of a harder one. Some of this is the group being in sync and you, as a new member, are not in rhythm with them (see above). This will go away over time as you get used to their style of playing. However, some of this is also style. There are lots of different ways to roleplay. Not every group has the players speak with the words and tone of voice of their characters. Lots of groups do it like, "My character negotiates with the shop owner for a lower price," "OK make a persuasion roll," "21!", "OK the shop owner grudgingly lowers his prices." If that is not satisfactory to you, but that's how they play, then you may be at an impasse. They're not liable to want to change their whole style of playing to suite the new person, no matter how nice they are. If speaking in voice is that important to you and this group simply does not do it, that may be an intractable problem and signal that this is not the right group for you.
However, some of this depends on how much you like these people and want to keep playing with them. If you like them and want to stick with them as friends, then one thing you can do about dilemma #3 is be an example. While they are all talking in 3rd person summaries ("My character argues with you") you can use your character's dialogue (note: without being judgmental or demanding they do it your way). You can respond to "My character argues with you," by saying something like, "Sinda Blackstar folds her arms, frowning. 'And just how do you expect to get paid, if we don't bring back the troll's head?'" Nothing may come of this but, perhaps, if they see you doing it one or two of them will think it's cool and want to try it, and the group may shift their play style.
But... do not expect it. And if the "summary RP" thing is that big of a deal-breaker then you may need to look elsewhere for D&D buddies.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
One cool roleplay trick it takes people deceptively long to figure out: A great way to take your character from wallflower to party member is simply to initiate in- character conversations.
If another character hints at a potentially mysterious backstory, have your character ask them about it. Ask them where they're from, what their home was like, maybe tell them about yourself. If your character as a clashing set of ideals from another character's, feel free to have mini debates on the subject during downtime.
If you want to flesh out your own character a little more, have them make choices, even (or especially) small ones. If your party stops at a tavern to eat, what food do they order? What kind of songs do they request? What is their alignment and how does it manifest in their personal philosophy? Character is derived from choices, and making them will get your character more out of loner status and get the party's attention.
For dilemma #3, I've seen people (myself included) have success simply raising their hand and maybe excitedly saying "Ooh! I think I have a thing for this!" That gets the group's attention (since nobody means to talk over anyone), then you can double check any ability/spell/stat you need to while you explain your plan to the party. The important thing is just to capture their attention and not feel guilty for doing so. As long as you don't abuse the hand raise and still let other players get their stuff in.
Ah, these kind of make me feel bad. I find myself to be a bit of the problem player the OP mentions in game. At least from my end, I try to make a obvious, bad accent for IC speech and drop it for OOC. As for the person taking a 'lead' role? This may just be down to person to person contact. You should sit down with both the DM and player and raise these issues. The power of human cooperation is great. If both are at least aware of the situation, the player may hesitate, allowing you to take a chance or someone else to step up. If the DM knows, they may send NPC's more inclined to interact with other players then the mentioned.
It may seem confrontational, but a discussion now saves a blow up or fight later.
I don't really see this as confrontational. The key to any relationship, and a D&D party IS a relationship, is communication. I'd advise expressing your concerns not only with the DM, but with the player in question. If they're not an asshat, they'll realize they're "trampling." Tell them you'd like to be able to engage more, and maybe they'll defer to you or others in social situations. Sometimes people just don't realize they're trampling because no one speaks up about it. And if they do social interactions well, maybe they can help you along the way.
If you try any of the suggestions in this thread and get pushback or find they are unresponsive, it's perfectly ok to find another group. Or start your own. This experience should be fun for everyone involved. Don't suffer through it.
Yeah - try talking to the others. If you let them know that you're trying to engage but sometimes you need a little more time to process, then agree on some kind of hand signal or something to signal that you have an idea or a way to contribute to the scene, but you need a few seconds to put it into words. As others have mentioned - if they're not wangrods they should be happy to give you an opportunity.
Second, if they're used to playing together as group, they've likely settled into roles - the person with the high-CHA character becomes the "face" of the group, and the others tend to let that character initiate conversation so and persuasion/deception/intimidation checks are being made by the character with the best bonuses there. It's possible they don't know your character well enough to know when to let you take the lead.
(I ran into this with a druid of mine - he was a quiet character. Everyone else kept jumping in to make strength checks to get through doors and such until finally I take a crack at one and succeed easily. The reaction was "wait, you have a +4 to STR as a druid?" and I had to explain "He's a freakin' firbolg with powerful build, guys. DEX is his dump stat, not STR - that's why I have a -1 to initiative...")