So I’m thinking of running an expirèrent the next time I Dm that involves either boring, underrated, or just under-balanced (if any) subclasses. Anything come to mind?
Kensei Monks are certainly uninteresting, but I wouldn't for a second consider them "sub-par". The biggest issue they have to deal with is whether or not they are going to make use of Agile Parry before their first Extra Attack. Attack with my weapon, or make an unarmed strike instead to get +2 AC until my next turn. And at higher levels even this issue goes away, because unless you got a Magic weapon with some neat on-hit things or bonus to hit, your Martial Arts die has probably matched or exceeded the weapon's own damage die, so you aren't losing damage anymore.
Kensei Monks are certainly uninteresting, but I wouldn't for a second consider them "sub-par". The biggest issue they have to deal with is whether or not they are going to make use of Agile Parry before their first Extra Attack. Attack with my weapon, or make an unarmed strike instead to get +2 AC until my next turn. And at higher levels even this issue goes away, because unless you got a Magic weapon with some neat on-hit things or bonus to hit, your Martial Arts die has probably matched or exceeded the weapon's own damage die, so you aren't losing damage anymore.
Kensei are only as interesting or unintersting as the player makes them. I agree that they aren't as good as some other Monk subclasses but that's because Monk is one of the best classes in 5E.
Kensei Monks are certainly uninteresting, but I wouldn't for a second consider them "sub-par". The biggest issue they have to deal with is whether or not they are going to make use of Agile Parry before their first Extra Attack. Attack with my weapon, or make an unarmed strike instead to get +2 AC until my next turn. And at higher levels even this issue goes away, because unless you got a Magic weapon with some neat on-hit things or bonus to hit, your Martial Arts die has probably matched or exceeded the weapon's own damage die, so you aren't losing damage anymore.
Kensei are only as interesting or unintersting as the player makes them. I agree that they aren't as good as some other Monk subclasses but that's because Monk is one of the best classes in 5E.
My understanding was that the common consensus is that monks are one of the weakest classes in 5e. I would be interested in seeing you elaborate on why you think they are so good.
Kensei Monks are certainly uninteresting, but I wouldn't for a second consider them "sub-par". The biggest issue they have to deal with is whether or not they are going to make use of Agile Parry before their first Extra Attack. Attack with my weapon, or make an unarmed strike instead to get +2 AC until my next turn. And at higher levels even this issue goes away, because unless you got a Magic weapon with some neat on-hit things or bonus to hit, your Martial Arts die has probably matched or exceeded the weapon's own damage die, so you aren't losing damage anymore.
Kensei are only as interesting or unintersting as the player makes them. I agree that they aren't as good as some other Monk subclasses but that's because Monk is one of the best classes in 5E.
My understanding was that the common consensus is that monks are one of the weakest classes in 5e. I would be interested in seeing you elaborate on why you think they are so good.
Not the person you asked, but Stunning Strike is really strong. I don't think Monks are the best class in 5e, but I personally wouldn't consider them the worst either.
Monk/Warlock however do suffer from the same issues of not having resources to go all day long without a short rest or two so if most of your party is long rest based, or your DM has strict timetables making an hour break an actual threat to being able to complete your objectives then it can hamper your ability to effectively contribute after a couple encounters.
cleric is always a good option as a DMPC if your party doesn’t have one. I personally am a very big fan of Abjuration Wizard as a DMPC as it assits your part with defenses and the many buff spells whilst also having some of its own power potentially
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Bardic Inspiration is just someone believing in you, and I believe in you
I prefer choosing classes as DMPC's that don't have spells, or many spells. This is why I prefer Rogues, Monks, and Fighters as DMPC's, and the more boring the better.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I’m doing it not to punish players, but ideas for NPCs if possibly (if worse comes to worse) I need an DMPC.
So I wanted to find some that wouldn’t steal the spotlight of the PCs if said need occurs
For DMPCs, rather than make a boring or underpowered build, you should go for a build that is great at support and not much else: Valor bard, life cleric, dreams or land druid, possibly divine soul sorcerer, and abjuration wizard. (Disclaimer: I am not implying that these subclasses aren't good at anything but support, I am saying they can be built to be good at only support).
Many paladins have some great supportive auras starting tier 2, but can easily out nova most PCs regardless of build, so honorable mention only. Same goes for celestial warlock (decent healing, but either switches to an efficient blaster or becomes dead weight once those slots are gone).
Kensei Monks are certainly uninteresting, but I wouldn't for a second consider them "sub-par". The biggest issue they have to deal with is whether or not they are going to make use of Agile Parry before their first Extra Attack. Attack with my weapon, or make an unarmed strike instead to get +2 AC until my next turn. And at higher levels even this issue goes away, because unless you got a Magic weapon with some neat on-hit things or bonus to hit, your Martial Arts die has probably matched or exceeded the weapon's own damage die, so you aren't losing damage anymore.
Kensei are only as interesting or unintersting as the player makes them. I agree that they aren't as good as some other Monk subclasses but that's because Monk is one of the best classes in 5E.
My understanding was that the common consensus is that monks are one of the weakest classes in 5e. I would be interested in seeing you elaborate on why you think they are so good.
No, Monks consistently place very high on the charts and objectively that makes a lot of sense. Let's just take a few examples from the core class:
No need for weapons or armour. Not even magical weapons.
Stupid amounts of mobility including running on walls and on water. You can also disengage, dodge and move just a bit extra as a bonus action. Also, Evasion
Four attacks at level five. With Stunning Strike
Being able to resist a bunch of negative mental effects and poison.
Being able to talk to anyone.
Proficiency in all saving throws.
Re-charges on a short rest.
Frak, these things alone would make a pretty good class but then you add on the sub-class features like at-will teleportation, laser attacks, drunken fighting, save-or-die punches et cetera. The only real downside is that you don't really have too much room for feats if you go with point buy (then again, you don't really need feats) and that you have few ranged options (depending on subclass) but both can be easily mitigated. For example, with point buy I would make a Variant Human with the following stats (including racial bonuses). Strength 8, Dex 16, Constitution 12, Intelligence 11, Wisdom 16 and Charisma 10. Starting feat would probably be Observant for +1 to Int. At level 4 I would raise Dex to 18, at level 8 I'd take the Tough feat. Later on you can take Prodigy or Skilled if you want more skills or you can just max Dexterity and Wisdom. You could also just throw in a single level of Rogue for Expertise. If you rolled well you could even take two levels for Ki-free disengage.
All in all, a very versatile and powerful class. :)
Each character is as boring as the player makes them. So just play them with not personality or one-dimensional at most and it will be fine. Think of Black Clover and how all the characters suck regardless of how cool their powers are. Like that.
So I’m thinking of running an expirèrent the next time I Dm that involves either boring, underrated, or just under-balanced (if any) subclasses. Anything come to mind?
What do you mean? Like punish the player for choosing something you don't want them to choose?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Fighter: Arcane Archer, Champion, Banneret (PDK).
Monk: Four Elements
Warlock: Undying
Sorcerer: Storm
Bard: Anything but Lore
Just spitballing, these are some of my opinions. If you want a great online resource for rating subclasses and the like, rpgbot.net is a useful site.
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
I’m doing it not to punish players, but ideas for NPCs if possibly (if worse comes to worse) I need an DMPC.
So I wanted to find some that wouldn’t steal the spotlight of the PCs if said need occurs
Okay, then I'd recommend the following:
Most Bards, I'd recommend Valor or Glamour
Trickery Cleric
Shepherd or Dreams Druid
Purple Dragon Knight Fighter (everyone forgets it exists)
Kensei, Sun Soul, or Four Elements Monk
Beastmaster or Monster Slayer Ranger
All Rogues are good, but they typically don't steal the spotlight
Wild Magic Sorcerer
Undying, Celestial, or Fey Warlock
War Magic or Transmutation Wizard
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Ok, this should give me tha backup list I need
Kensei Monks are certainly uninteresting, but I wouldn't for a second consider them "sub-par". The biggest issue they have to deal with is whether or not they are going to make use of Agile Parry before their first Extra Attack. Attack with my weapon, or make an unarmed strike instead to get +2 AC until my next turn. And at higher levels even this issue goes away, because unless you got a Magic weapon with some neat on-hit things or bonus to hit, your Martial Arts die has probably matched or exceeded the weapon's own damage die, so you aren't losing damage anymore.
Kensei are only as interesting or unintersting as the player makes them. I agree that they aren't as good as some other Monk subclasses but that's because Monk is one of the best classes in 5E.
My understanding was that the common consensus is that monks are one of the weakest classes in 5e. I would be interested in seeing you elaborate on why you think they are so good.
Not the person you asked, but Stunning Strike is really strong. I don't think Monks are the best class in 5e, but I personally wouldn't consider them the worst either.
Monk/Warlock however do suffer from the same issues of not having resources to go all day long without a short rest or two so if most of your party is long rest based, or your DM has strict timetables making an hour break an actual threat to being able to complete your objectives then it can hamper your ability to effectively contribute after a couple encounters.
Check out my latest homebrew: Mystic Knight (Fighter) v1.31
Nature cleric.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
cleric is always a good option as a DMPC if your party doesn’t have one. I personally am a very big fan of Abjuration Wizard as a DMPC as it assits your part with defenses and the many buff spells whilst also having some of its own power potentially
Bardic Inspiration is just someone believing in you, and I believe in you
I prefer choosing classes as DMPC's that don't have spells, or many spells. This is why I prefer Rogues, Monks, and Fighters as DMPC's, and the more boring the better.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
For DMPCs, rather than make a boring or underpowered build, you should go for a build that is great at support and not much else: Valor bard, life cleric, dreams or land druid, possibly divine soul sorcerer, and abjuration wizard. (Disclaimer: I am not implying that these subclasses aren't good at anything but support, I am saying they can be built to be good at only support).
Many paladins have some great supportive auras starting tier 2, but can easily out nova most PCs regardless of build, so honorable mention only. Same goes for celestial warlock (decent healing, but either switches to an efficient blaster or becomes dead weight once those slots are gone).
Alchemist Artificer as well.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
No, Monks consistently place very high on the charts and objectively that makes a lot of sense. Let's just take a few examples from the core class:
Frak, these things alone would make a pretty good class but then you add on the sub-class features like at-will teleportation, laser attacks, drunken fighting, save-or-die punches et cetera. The only real downside is that you don't really have too much room for feats if you go with point buy (then again, you don't really need feats) and that you have few ranged options (depending on subclass) but both can be easily mitigated. For example, with point buy I would make a Variant Human with the following stats (including racial bonuses). Strength 8, Dex 16, Constitution 12, Intelligence 11, Wisdom 16 and Charisma 10. Starting feat would probably be Observant for +1 to Int. At level 4 I would raise Dex to 18, at level 8 I'd take the Tough feat. Later on you can take Prodigy or Skilled if you want more skills or you can just max Dexterity and Wisdom. You could also just throw in a single level of Rogue for Expertise. If you rolled well you could even take two levels for Ki-free disengage.
All in all, a very versatile and powerful class. :)
I'm playing a storm sorcerer.
It's not boring.
Each character is as boring as the player makes them. So just play them with not personality or one-dimensional at most and it will be fine.
Think of Black Clover and how all the characters suck regardless of how cool their powers are. Like that.