Typical published adventures; yes. The adventures assume that all characters start at the same level and progress at the same level
Adventurer's League; no. AL is divided into tiers (bands of levels) and when you turn up with a character, you join a game according to your tier. At most someone might be 3 levels above or below you.
West Marches; no. WM games allow the players to put together whatever group they like which means if they can recruit someone ten levels above them to walk them through a dungeon, good for them.
Homebrew campaign; depends. The Dungeon Master's Guide recommends keeping everyone around the same level to make the DMs life easier in terms of balance. Say you make an encounter that based on XP budget is 'balanced' for three level 2s and a level 6, but contains a CR 4 monster, that monster will wreck the level 2s but hardly challenge the level 6.
So depending on what you're playing, the necessity of similar levels depends, but I'll honestly say it's easier for the DM and more fun for the players if they all are the same level.
I think it is a lot easier on not the players, but the DM, to have everyone in the party of about the same power level. If one character is wildly more or less powerful, it makes the DM's job harder, because something that is a moderately hard challenge for one character can one-shot the other character. There's even a thread about this right now for even-leveled characters in which the DM is concerned because two of them are just punching way above their weight class while the other two are not, and how does the DM make challenges for the 2 overpowered characters without making the underpowered ones non-entities in the encounters (or even killing them)? Imagine what it would be like if those 2 characters were also a few levels higher.
For this reason as DM, I award XP to the entire party ("everyone gets 200 xp") and I keep them at the same level. Much easier for me.
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AD&D days were quite different because the power levels could vary quite dramatically at different levels as a lot of things where done randomly. So a 2nd Level Fighter could be a match and fight like a 4th level fighter, while a 5th level fighter could end up being not a whole lot better than a 2nd level fighter. How well you rolled on hit points, how well you have done in previous adventures (how much loot you did or didn't find), how well you rolled on stats. It all made a big difference.
In modern D&D the game is designed to make sure that characters are roughly equal to each other at any level, so if your a 5th level fighter.. your a 5th level character proper, there is little that could result in you being less then that. When you run 3rd level characters with 1st level characters in the same party, there is going to be a fairly sizeable difference between them.
Also back in the day there was no such thing as balancing encounters, so you took the fights you thought you could win and ran from the ones you didn't think you could. Having a mixed party just meant yEhu had to run more often or at least be clever about how you approached fighting.
Suffice to say when running 5e I think its generally recommended that you run characters within a level of each other but not more than that. In classic D&D you could have a 3-5 level discrepancy and it was usually fine with maybe the early levels being an exception. Like the difference between a 1st and a 3rd level character could be quite significant but the difference between a 9th and 15th level character is pretty negligible.
Ehhhh.....9th and 15th level are quite different.
Casters have access to 8th level spells at 15th level which starts to get world defining.
Overall I would say if you say within the Tiers you are OK:
Tier 1: Levels 1-4 - Local Heroes.
Tier 2: Levels 5-10 - Heroes of the Realm.
Tier 3: Levels 11-16 - Masters of the Realm.
Tier 4: Levels 17-20 - Masters of the World.
I think between 1st and 3rd is pretty big too...but thats just because TBH levels 1 and 2 are god awful in my opinion. between 3rd and 4th tho is basically the same.
Casters have access to 8th level spells at 15th level which starts to get world defining.
Overall I would say if you say within the Tiers you are OK:
Tier 1: Levels 1-4 - Local Heroes.
Tier 2: Levels 5-10 - Heroes of the Realm.
Tier 3: Levels 11-16 - Masters of the Realm.
Tier 4: Levels 17-20 - Masters of the World.
I think between 1st and 3rd is pretty big too...but thats just because TBH levels 1 and 2 are god awful in my opinion. between 3rd and 4th tho is basically the same.
Tier 5: Levels 21+: Masters of the Universe... by the power of Greyskull!!!!!
I agree globally, I would just add that there is also a large gap betwen 5 and 10, maybe there should be 2 bands. After that, the gains are less significant.
Fair...3rd level spells do level stuff quite a bit as they are pretty powerful but there are enough 4th level spells that are just encounter breaking (Polymorph!) that I think that is a fair statement.
I play D&D for more than 34 years now, the 1975 list was just an extreme example. Just think of the poor DM, having to manage 15 players ... A lot has changed over the years, but that's another discussion.
From the DM point of View you certainly want a group of approximately the same level, certainly at Tier 1. From level 7 onward, I think a difference of max 3 levels is acceptable and manageable. From the players point of view, I think a mixture of levels can add to the fun. The higher level player(s) protecting and supporting the lower ones. But that's from level 6 or 7 onward.
What I don't like is those posts where people ask how to build the strongest character or how to do most damage. Those are the real game breakers IMHO. Where's the fun in winning every encounter at low risk?
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"Semper in faecibus sumus, solum profundum variat" playing since 1986
I use a(n ill defined) combination of milestone, xp & roleplay rewards for leveling characters. Sometimes the whole party gets the "Level Up!" Text, such as after passing a major milestone, but more often than not, the text is to single players.
Occasionally, I'll level up a character during play. I did this once when a storm Sorcerer hit level 6 and it was a huge success. "As you start to cast your spell, cascades of power ripple through you, sending sparks and arcs in all directions. Which targets would you like to apply electrical or thunder damage to?"
Generally though, i find that keeping a lower level party closer in level is not only easier for the DM, it's important for the players to feel they're they are significantly contributing members of the story. Below 6th level, a two or three level discrepancy in character level is HUGE. At levels 7-14 the same level discrepancy is significant, and at levels 15+ it is inconvenient. In other words, the higher the average level of the party members, the less important the level discrepancy becomes.
Tomb of Horrors was a special case. It was the first tournament scenario played at the first gamers convention (Gencon1) and it was designed for 12-15 players, most of whose characters were not expected to survive the dungeon.
I use a(n ill defined) combination of milestone, xp & roleplay rewards for leveling characters. Sometimes the whole party gets the "Level Up!" Text, such as after passing a major milestone, but more often than not, the text is to single players.
Occasionally, I'll level up a character during play. I did this once when a storm Sorcerer hit level 6 and it was a huge success. "As you start to cast your spell, cascades of power ripple through you, sending sparks and arcs in all directions. Which targets would you like to apply electrical or thunder damage to?"
Generally though, i find that keeping a lower level party closer in level is not only easier for the DM, it's important for the players to feel they're they are significantly contributing members of the story. Below 6th level, a two or three level discrepancy in character level is HUGE. At levels 7-14 the same level discrepancy is significant, and at levels 15+ it is inconvenient. In other words, the higher the average level of the party members, the less important the level discrepancy becomes.
Tomb of Horrors was a special case. It was the first tournament scenario played at the first gamers convention (Gencon1) and it was designed for 12-15 players, most of whose characters were not expected to survive the dungeon.
This is fair. Once you start getting those 7th, and 8th level spells you can punch pretty high. A level 14 wizard can hang with a higher level martial pretty easily I think...
I like the idea of leveling a character when they are in a clutch situation! Especially with Sorcerer that seems really cool.
The during play levelup should only be used by a DM if they know what class the player intends to level next. Giving them a level of a class they don't want only causes problems.
The during play levelup should only be used by a DM if they know what class the player intends to level next. Giving them a level of a class they don't want only causes problems.
Yeah your storm sorcerer example was a good example of how to do it.
Overall I would definitely ask ahead of time but it could be a cool moment if done well.
Kotath brings up the main point IMO. if you're a level 1 character with a bunch of level 5 characters... you're not going to be having much fun. It might be fun for a one shot, or A session... but not a campaign. You're going to quickly get killed, not hit anything, and/or hide in a corner. So yes, a party should be approximately leveled.
As long as you live, you'll equal their level before they get to level 6.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
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Party requirements from the 1975 Tomb of Horrors tournament Module: 15 players/team ranging level 6 - 12
playing since 1986
It depends on what you're playing:
So depending on what you're playing, the necessity of similar levels depends, but I'll honestly say it's easier for the DM and more fun for the players if they all are the same level.
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I think it is a lot easier on not the players, but the DM, to have everyone in the party of about the same power level. If one character is wildly more or less powerful, it makes the DM's job harder, because something that is a moderately hard challenge for one character can one-shot the other character. There's even a thread about this right now for even-leveled characters in which the DM is concerned because two of them are just punching way above their weight class while the other two are not, and how does the DM make challenges for the 2 overpowered characters without making the underpowered ones non-entities in the encounters (or even killing them)? Imagine what it would be like if those 2 characters were also a few levels higher.
For this reason as DM, I award XP to the entire party ("everyone gets 200 xp") and I keep them at the same level. Much easier for me.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Ehhhh.....9th and 15th level are quite different.
Casters have access to 8th level spells at 15th level which starts to get world defining.
Overall I would say if you say within the Tiers you are OK:
I think between 1st and 3rd is pretty big too...but thats just because TBH levels 1 and 2 are god awful in my opinion. between 3rd and 4th tho is basically the same.
Fair...3rd level spells do level stuff quite a bit as they are pretty powerful but there are enough 4th level spells that are just encounter breaking (Polymorph!) that I think that is a fair statement.
I play D&D for more than 34 years now, the 1975 list was just an extreme example. Just think of the poor DM, having to manage 15 players ... A lot has changed over the years, but that's another discussion.
From the DM point of View you certainly want a group of approximately the same level, certainly at Tier 1. From level 7 onward, I think a difference of max 3 levels is acceptable and manageable. From the players point of view, I think a mixture of levels can add to the fun. The higher level player(s) protecting and supporting the lower ones. But that's from level 6 or 7 onward.
What I don't like is those posts where people ask how to build the strongest character or how to do most damage. Those are the real game breakers IMHO. Where's the fun in winning every encounter at low risk?
playing since 1986
I use a(n ill defined) combination of milestone, xp & roleplay rewards for leveling characters. Sometimes the whole party gets the "Level Up!" Text, such as after passing a major milestone, but more often than not, the text is to single players.
Occasionally, I'll level up a character during play. I did this once when a storm Sorcerer hit level 6 and it was a huge success. "As you start to cast your spell, cascades of power ripple through you, sending sparks and arcs in all directions. Which targets would you like to apply electrical or thunder damage to?"
Generally though, i find that keeping a lower level party closer in level is not only easier for the DM, it's important for the players to feel they're they are significantly contributing members of the story. Below 6th level, a two or three level discrepancy in character level is HUGE. At levels 7-14 the same level discrepancy is significant, and at levels 15+ it is inconvenient. In other words, the higher the average level of the party members, the less important the level discrepancy becomes.
Tomb of Horrors was a special case. It was the first tournament scenario played at the first gamers convention (Gencon1) and it was designed for 12-15 players, most of whose characters were not expected to survive the dungeon.
This is fair. Once you start getting those 7th, and 8th level spells you can punch pretty high. A level 14 wizard can hang with a higher level martial pretty easily I think...
I like the idea of leveling a character when they are in a clutch situation! Especially with Sorcerer that seems really cool.
The during play levelup should only be used by a DM if they know what class the player intends to level next. Giving them a level of a class they don't want only causes problems.
Yeah your storm sorcerer example was a good example of how to do it.
Overall I would definitely ask ahead of time but it could be a cool moment if done well.
As long as you live, you'll equal their level before they get to level 6.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale