I was inspired to come up with this because of a certain mechanical rule in Minecraft, where if an undead mob is hit with an instant health potion, it takes damage, and if it is hit with instant damage or poison potions, they regain health.

I thought this could be applied in D&D fairly easily, and especially with Van Richten's coming out soon, zombies and undead will be more prevalent enemies, so it gives players another hard choice to make: hurt the bad guys now or heal myself now?

I also haven't figured out how it would work mechanically, so if you have any advice there I'd love to hear it!

i like the idea alit  though if dhampir becomes offical it may lead to some oopsies 

Quote from stuffattackknightofrandom >>

i like the idea alit  though if dhampir becomes offical it may lead to some oopsies 

 ah very true, I hadn't thought about that haha. I feel like there are different ways it could work, and how the PCs decide to affect the undead with the potion. If they throw it on the ground it might splash everywhere dealing a kind of AOE damage (definitely hurting a dhampir ally) but if they throw the potion specifically at the (for example) lich, then I feel like it would just be a bad situation for the lich.

The Dhampir or reborn lineages actually change a lot about this, wow. Like now do the players have to carry drinkable poison on them? Huh, thanks for the feedback!

Well back in past editions of DnD the use of a Healing type spell would actually cause (Radiant) Damage, anyone that plays DDO will know how much fun a Mass Curing is to do to skeletons and zombies; but along came 5e and that wording that said spell doesnt affect undead. 

Basically there is nothing stopping you from creating a table rule about such spells, and potions, doing such.

Quote from stuffattackknightofrandom >>

i like the idea alit  though if dhampir becomes offical it may lead to some oopsies 

 The upcoming release of Van Richten's will make them official. 

Of course its then upto the DM if they will allow something from Ravenloft into their non-Ravenloft games.

Quote from Friday_Is_Here >>

Well back in past editions of DnD the use of a Healing type spell would actually cause (Radiant) Damage, anyone that plays DDO will know how much fun a Mass Curing is to do to skeletons and zombies; but along came 5e and that wording that said spell doesnt affect undead. 

Basically there is nothing stopping you from creating a table rule about such spells, and potions, doing such.

 That's actually very interesting! I didn't know that was a thing, but I feel like it could be easily implemented into 5e by just changing that a bit. Thank you for letting me know!

Quote from stuffattackknightofrandom >>

i like the idea alit  though if dhampir becomes offical it may lead to some oopsies 

 dhampir should be a single creature type. just like everything else.

In the Unearthed Arcana, it specifically states that Dhampir count as both Humanoid and Undead so that spells like Cure Wounds can actually heal those who are using this subrace. (Which means that the Dhampir can drink potions just fine).

I think all three of the Gothic lineages are appearing as official in Van Richten's. And while I don't know how things will be changing, I would guess that the Dhampir will keep the feature of counting as both Humanoid and Undead (don't quote me on that, but is does make about the most sense). 

And it is true in earlier editions healing magic could cause damage to Undead. (Not that it was necessarily considered radiant damage back then; they also used to have Infernal Healing as a spell. I remember I didn't want the damaging Undead aspect to my healer class, but decided I would have to keep it because of just how nice it was to actually do damage to something.)

Quote from kbeyondtraining >>

In the Unearthed Arcana, it specifically states that Dhampir count as both Humanoid and Undead so that spells like Cure Wounds can actually heal those who are using this subrace. (Which means that the Dhampir can drink potions just fine).

I think all three of the Gothic lineages are appearing as official in Van Richten's. And while I don't know how things will be changing, I would guess that the Dhampir will keep the feature of counting as both Humanoid and Undead (don't quote me on that, but is does make about the most sense). 

And it is true in earlier editions healing magic could cause damage to Undead. (Not that it was necessarily considered radiant damage back then; they also used to have Infernal Healing as a spell. I remember I didn't want the damaging Undead aspect to my healer class, but decided I would have to keep it because of just how nice it was to actually do damage to something.)

 that makes sense, and the clause that Dhampir are both clarifies a lot in case I end up adding this to my games, thanks!

I never really played DDO, I wonder if mass cure did both heal and cause damage simultaneously? In the text, at least from 3e that I remember, it was a choose either heal or cause damage to Undead. (That was for channeling at least). Edit: just checked, as stated in Healing Circle in the 3.0 PHB "Like cure spells, healing circle damages Undead in its area rather than healing them." So yeah, it does both, same time, as far as I can tell, pretty awesome.

Really that aspect was pretty cool. I really wanted there to be a feature like that in another MMO I played for a while where you had a mass healing spell that could actually do damage. So seeing that again may be nice.  

Oh right, I think the Inflict Wounds used to be able to heal Undead back in 3e. (I can't remember if Infernal Healing just applied to fiends or something or not, I don't have my 3e book near me right now, will have to look that up later. Edit: Didn't find Infernal Healing in the 3.0 version, it could have been a 3.5 or Pathfinder thing, because I know I selected it for a character while using Hero Lab's Pathfinder extension. But yes Inflict Wounds used to heal Undead in 3.0.) 

Sounds like you want to make Healing potions act like an extension of Holy Water (which does 2d6 radiant damage).

I see no issue with that, especially since the damage would be basically the same for twice the price.

Quote from Memnosyne >>

Sounds like you want to make Healing potions act like an extension of Holy Water (which does 2d6 radiant damage).

I see no issue with that, especially since the damage would be basically the same for twice the price.

 but per jeremy crawford they an heal undead

I have an issue with Healing potions as anti-undead grenades.  There's a presumption that healing potions much come from some sort of divine magic path, and I don't think that's necessarily the case in lore or even mechanics.  All we know is it's universal form if you adhere to the flavor text, a red liquid that glimmers when agitated.  One can't presume there's no divine alchemy and apothecary that can produce potable healing magic.  

Moreover the potion only works if consumed.  Pouring, and moreso splattering, a healing potion on flesh doesn't do anything to the living, why should it have to on the undead?

What other potions can have effects if used for splash effect?

There's enough magic and mundane (and middle ground like Holy Water) items that can be weaponized into grenade effects.   Given the relative ubiquity of potions of healing in a lot of D&D games, turning what's basically a first aid or trauma kit into a bomb just doesn't pass my gut feeling test.  

You can of course do it, I'm just offering some thoughts on why you may not.

Quote from MidnightPlat >>

I have an issue with Healing potions as anti-undead grenades.  There's a presumption that healing potions much come from some sort of divine magic path, and I don't think that's necessarily the case in lore or even mechanics.  All we know is it's universal form if you adhere to the flavor text, a red liquid that glimmers when agitated.  One can't presume there's no divine alchemy and apothecary that can produce potable healing magic.  

Moreover the potion only works if consumed.  Pouring, and moreso splattering, a healing potion on flesh doesn't do anything to the living, why should it have to on the undead?

What other potions can have effects if used for splash effect?

There's enough magic and mundane (and middle ground like Holy Water) items that can be weaponized into grenade effects.   Given the relative ubiquity of potions of healing in a lot of D&D games, turning what's basically a first aid or trauma kit into a bomb just doesn't pass my gut feeling test.  

You can of course do it, I'm just offering some thoughts on why you may not.

 all very reasonable points. I got the idea from Minecraft, which has splash potions that you can throw at mobs, so I suppose there's that disparity between the inspiration and the implementation, so I'd probably have to work around that, maybe adapt a splash potion feature to D&D as well? I don't know but it sounds like it could be interesting

Quote from j_blade105 >>

Quote from Memnosyne >>

Sounds like you want to make Healing potions act like an extension of Holy Water (which does 2d6 radiant damage).

I see no issue with that, especially since the damage would be basically the same for twice the price.

 but per jeremy crawford they an heal undead

 Sure. As a homebrew variant rule, just don't use it in the same campaign that a Dhampir is used in.

Quote from CypherTheNerd >>

Quote from MidnightPlat >>

 

What other potions can have effects if used for splash effect?

There's enough magic and mundane (and middle ground like Holy Water) items that can be weaponized into grenade effects.   Given the relative ubiquity of potions of healing in a lot of D&D games, turning what's basically a first aid or trauma kit into a bomb just doesn't pass my gut feeling test.  

You can of course do it, I'm just offering some thoughts on why you may not.

 all very reasonable points. I got the idea from Minecraft, which has splash potions that you can throw at mobs, so I suppose there's that disparity between the inspiration and the implementation, so I'd probably have to work around that, maybe adapt a splash potion feature to D&D as well? I don't know but it sounds like it could be interesting

There are splashing and splattering rules in the game you could adapt to potions if you wanted to.  Read up on the PHB description of vials of acid and alchemist fire, and I think all the mechanics are there.  It's an improvised weapon so unless the character has some sort of feat accomodating it won't be as bonused as proficient attacks.  I think there's rules on the splatter to.  I think part of the concern is if you're thinking AoE beyond one target, why would something that does fair to decent healing most often have a broad effect on a group externally exposed.

Another caveat your players will likely try if you allow this.  Noting the proficiency gap with improvised weapons, they're going to start coating their weapons with healing potions when fighting undead, or at least ask if they can.  

If the Potion of Healing is treated as a Radiant version of Alchemist's Fire (exclusively against Fiends and Undead), then using it offensively would require a certain level of desperation. It's vastly cheaper to stock up on Holy Water, and depending on the party level, they will either need those points of healing and/or will have access to more powerful cantrips.

Quote from MidnightPlat >>

Quote from CypherTheNerd >>

Quote from MidnightPlat >>

 

What other potions can have effects if used for splash effect?

There's enough magic and mundane (and middle ground like Holy Water) items that can be weaponized into grenade effects.   Given the relative ubiquity of potions of healing in a lot of D&D games, turning what's basically a first aid or trauma kit into a bomb just doesn't pass my gut feeling test.  

You can of course do it, I'm just offering some thoughts on why you may not.

 all very reasonable points. I got the idea from Minecraft, which has splash potions that you can throw at mobs, so I suppose there's that disparity between the inspiration and the implementation, so I'd probably have to work around that, maybe adapt a splash potion feature to D&D as well? I don't know but it sounds like it could be interesting

 

There are splashing and splattering rules in the game you could adapt to potions if you wanted to.  Read up on the PHB description of vials of acid and alchemist fire, and I think all the mechanics are there.  It's an improvised weapon so unless the character has some sort of feat accomodating it won't be as bonused as proficient attacks.  I think there's rules on the splatter to.  I think part of the concern is if you're thinking AoE beyond one target, why would something that does fair to decent healing most often have a broad effect on a group externally exposed.

Another caveat your players will likely try if you allow this.  Noting the proficiency gap with improvised weapons, they're going to start coating their weapons with healing potions when fighting undead, or at least ask if they can.  

 good to know, thanks!

Didn't have time to do this with my earlier post, but I like practicing with tooltips:

[item[Acid (vial)[/item] and Alchemist's fire (flask)

I can can Memnosyne's point that using healing potions the way I'm encouraging means there's many other items and magics that will do a heck of a better job.  That's sort of the point of improvised weapons, you're out of other options and you're making do with it.  However, neither of own assessments should be seen as outright discounting your suggestion.  I can see more of a fluid, so to speak, relationship between the healing potion being converted to in some sort of binary switch way as I guess they are in Minecraft.  If more video gamey logic is your play style, and is how your table wants to play, go for it.  

My take, at least my game world's logic, if there was a potentially life saving elixir, would its vessel be easily fragmented and it's properties be volatile enough to "blast" an enemy?  My world says no.  There's also in my game a sort of mythology of health, life and souls and how those forces interact (and they're not connected to radiance, rather its something entities more possessed of necrotic and radiant energies often vie for), but that goes deep down into my own game's lore than necessary.  But short version, if you doused the dead with healing potions in my game, they may actually get a little drunk and party on with their attack, possibly berzerking them.  Feel free to steal if you want to do an ironic reversal on your characters.