I decided to rework multiclassing a bit to fit the campaign I’m in, and because I don’t like the RAW system. Also need to explain how our magic system works to understand Multi spell classes.
To start, we are using a No Preparation Spell Point (SP) System
It works as so, you add all spell slots together, throw in main stat mod on top, once, and you got your total SPs. The cost to cast a spell is equal to the spell level of the spell being cast. So 1 lvl spell costs 1 SP, 2 lvl 2 SP, 3 lvl 3 SP…and so on. SPs are regained after long rest.
Divine Casters, Wizards and all prepared spell casters no longer need to prepare. These casters always have access to all their spells, like a spontaneous caster.
All classes focus objects remain the same and should not be ignored. For a Wizard who has potential to learn, cast and always have access to very dangerous and reality bending spells, the spell book is the focus. For a Wizard to cast a spell from a spell book, that book is the focus object.
A Divine caster needs the holy symbol…but I don’t know if I agree with that. You would think faith is enough of a focus. Maybe that is something a cleric discovers when their faith is challenged because they lost their holy symbol and cant cast.
Regaining SPs is done by a long rest. DMs call for partial long rest of short rest. Anything that requires gaining or regaining spell slots just remember...spell slot value of 1 represents 1 SP. The spell table levels in the class table does not matter for this to work, don’t need to complicate it. If something says you get 2 extra level 2 spell slots, that means you get 2 SPs two times…4SPs. Wizards Arcane Recovery says regain spell slots up to half your Wizard lvl, but no more then 6 spell slot lvl total…so this translates to regain SPs up to half Wizard lvl max 6 SPs. Just remember, 6 SP is good, considering you have access to all your spells at 12 level Wizard.
Upcasting is simple, if you upcast a 1 lvl spell as a lvl 3, it costs 4 SPs. If you upcast a 3 lvl spell as a 6 lvl it costs 9 SPs.
This leads to new magic items, such as SPs magic items. New types of enchantments on focus items.
Ok I think that’s it on the magic system…maybe I forgot something.
Onto Multiclassing. I guess you can give a player enough rope to hang themselves and create a shit character by letting them take as many classes as they want, but I think knowing 3 classes max is good.
Class Level
This is the level of any particular class
Character Level
This is the total of all Class Levels
Prerequisite,
Main stat of new class must be at least 12
Experience Points
The same Experience progression table is used for everyone and is based on Character Level.
Hit Points and Hit Dice
Every time you gain a class level, you role the appropriate dice for that class for Hit Points. Same goes whenever you get a 1 lvl in a class. So a 1 lvl Wizard rolls a d6 for HPs, then next level wizard switches to Fighter and now rolls a d10 for HPs.
We don’t use Hit Dice like RAW, we use a very diminished system and we certainly don’t use the absurd full health after a long rest. Not going to get into that, I will skip it.
Proficiency Bonus
This is based on Character level, not class level. So everyone has the same Prof+
Proficiency
I don’t like the RAW rules on this. In this system, when you learn a new class, you get all the proficiencies of the new class. Maybe WoTC had a reason for this, but whatever it is, it is insignificant to create an unnecessary limitation like this.
Feats
I am using the Unearthed Arcana system that was tested for 5.5 rules. Everyone starts at 1 Character level with a Feat and gain a new Feat every 4 Character level. This also means that the +2 stat feature that use to be at 4 level is now a Feat that can be chosen or not. Prerequisites still need to be met.
Class Features
Like RAW, when you get a level in a class, you gain all the features of that level, with some caveats mentioned below.
Overlapping Class Features
If your new class has a feature that your other class had, they do not stack, this includes uses per rest. In regard to uses per rest, if one class has more uses per rest then the other, you will use the greater amount of uses per rest for the same class feature.
Also, if a duplicate class feature has new sub abilities you will gain those too. For example Channel Divinity might have new powers you other class does not have.
Extra Attack
This is a hard one. RAW says they do not stack and give Warlocks Thirsty Blade as an example. A 5 lvl Warlock who is also a 5 lvl Fighter would get 4 attacks per round, while a 10 lvl fighter would get 2.
So implemented a rule that says everyone who gets extra attacks from a class feature has to follow the Fighter progression table for extra attacks. So if you are multiclassing, and one of your classes has a feature that gives extra attack you cannot use a 3 attack until you reach Character level 11, which is when Fighter gets a 3 Extra Attack.
Spell Casting
If your new class has spell slots, add them as SPs to your existing SP pool. Any further levels in a spell slot class, you would continue to add new spell slots as SPs to your existing pool of SPs.
New spell casting classes will work the same for spells, you have access to all the spells available to the new class and level. This includes adding cantrips and spells known to the appropriate class and level. This includes the new focus object that must be on person to cast spells from the new class.
Increase based on level
If a spell increases in power based on level, it is increased based on Character level, not Class level.
Skills
When a new class is gained, 1 skill from the new class can be learned or a new tool, and it must be a skill/tool that the character does not have. Cannot learn same skill/tool to gain expertise.
Saving Throws
Unless I missed it, I saw no mention of Saving Throws Proficiency in RAW for Multiclassing. Here is what I like, Saving Throws Proficiency is based on the dominant class. So the highest leveled Class is the Save Profs are used. If we have classes that are same level, the last dominant class is used until one of the classes gets ahead of the others, then that one is the dominant class.
Secondly, letting a 20th level character cast a 9th level spell 10 times a day is a bit much. How 10 times?
"It works as so, you add all spell slots together, throw in main stat mod on top, once, and you got your total SPs. The cost to cast a spell is equal to the spell level of the spell being cast. So 1 lvl spell costs 1 SP, 2 lvl 2 SP, 3 lvl 3 SP…and so on. SPs are regained after long rest."
+
"If something says you get 2 extra level 2 spell slots, that means you get 2 SPs two times…4SPs"
So this means all spell slots together would be 84 and spell mod, +5, means 89.
89 / 9 = 10.44 recurring.
So 10 9th level spells per day.
"Divine Casters, Wizards and all prepared spell casters no longer need to prepare. These casters always have access to all their spells, like a spontaneous caster."
So Sorcerers, Bards and Warlocks just got royally shafted. You've also rendered many subclass features utterly obsolete. Clerics and Druids have now been given a massive upgrade. There is no longer any point at all to being anything other than a Cleric, Druid or Wizard.
"Wizards Arcane Recovery says regain spell slots up to half your Wizard lvl, but no more then 6 spell slot lvl total…so this translates to regain SPs up to half Wizard lvl max 6 SPs. Just remember, 6 SP is good, considering you have access to all your spells at 12 level Wizard."
Arcane Recovery is you recover spent spell slots with a combined level of half wizard level rounded up but individual spell slot cannot be greater than 5th level. This means a 20th level Wizard could recover 10 spell levels worth of slots, like two 5th level slots, or maybe a 4th level and three 3rd level. I don't know where you're getting 6th from, and I don't know why you're saying the max SP would be 6. I also don't know what is meant by the 12 level Wizard.
Max level is 20. Not 12.
"Upcasting is simple, if you upcast a 1 lvl spell as a lvl 3, it costs 4 SPs. If you upcast a 3 lvl spell as a 6 lvl it costs 9 SPs."
Doesn't make sense. An upcasted spell has more benefits but is still usually weaker than other spells of that level. Normally, a 2nd level spell cast at 4th level is just a 4th level spell - and would typically be weaker than other normal 4th level spells. It should be 4 SP, so I don't know why this extra rule exists to now make it 6 SP. Seems odd. It doesn't do anything but inconvenience a player.
==
Your system basically means a 20th level Wizard, with the greatest spell list and most broken spells, is now just shy of being a high god. They can wish for 1 simulacra, and that sim will be able to cast another 9 9th level spells, and easily set up an infinite army of simulacra each with 9x 9th level spell slots. That unlimited Time Stops, unlimited Imprisonments, unlimited Power Word Kills, unlimited Meteor Swarms, unlimited Foresight, unlimited Invulnerability, and unlimited Wishes. They can utterly destroy and remake WORLDS with pure unfettered ease. They would have unlimited Clone spells for unbridled immortality.
Nothing, short of a higher God could do anything to them.
Your system is ridiculously unbalanced.
Absolute, unyielding, NOPE.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Not sure how you are getting 10 9th lvl spells at lvl 20 wizard. A 20th lvl wizard has 22 Spell Points, so a 20th lvl Wizard can cast 2 9th lvl spells and 1 4th lvl spell or 4 1st lvl spell
Not sure how you are getting 10 9th lvl spells at lvl 20 wizard. A 20th lvl wizard has 22 Spell Points, so a 20th lvl Wizard can cast 2 9th lvl spells and 1 4rd lvl spell or 4 1st lvl spell
In your system, you state and a I quote again: 'If something says you get 2 extra level 2 spell slots, that means you get 2 SPs two times…4SPs'
So from this:
-
Your system is broken by the wording you have chosen.
Also, not sure why you're reinventing the wheel when DMG already has a Spell Point system that is reasonably balanced.
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That was referring to something that would give you extra spell points...like a magic items or a feature. I wrote up top to figure out how many SP a casters gets. Add up all the spell slots.
The reason for system was to balance out that prepare spell casters become spontaneous casters, so casters have access to all spells without preparing them.
Regardless, with my system I realized lvl 20 casters actually are too limited at lvl 20. They have the option to blow all spell points on 2 or 3 lvl 9 spells and are done for the day. Scrapping this idea to rework it
It does need a rework. But keep it up, you'll get there. Balancing homebrew systems is difficult, just keep trying. You got this. 💪
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
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MULTICLASSING
Looking for opinions and suggestions,
I decided to rework multiclassing a bit to fit the campaign I’m in, and because I don’t like the RAW system. Also need to explain how our magic system works to understand Multi spell classes.
To start, we are using a No Preparation Spell Point (SP) System
It works as so, you add all spell slots together, throw in main stat mod on top, once, and you got your total SPs. The cost to cast a spell is equal to the spell level of the spell being cast. So 1 lvl spell costs 1 SP, 2 lvl 2 SP, 3 lvl 3 SP…and so on. SPs are regained after long rest.
Divine Casters, Wizards and all prepared spell casters no longer need to prepare. These casters always have access to all their spells, like a spontaneous caster.
All classes focus objects remain the same and should not be ignored. For a Wizard who has potential to learn, cast and always have access to very dangerous and reality bending spells, the spell book is the focus. For a Wizard to cast a spell from a spell book, that book is the focus object.
A Divine caster needs the holy symbol…but I don’t know if I agree with that. You would think faith is enough of a focus. Maybe that is something a cleric discovers when their faith is challenged because they lost their holy symbol and cant cast.
Regaining SPs is done by a long rest. DMs call for partial long rest of short rest. Anything that requires gaining or regaining spell slots just remember...spell slot value of 1 represents 1 SP. The spell table levels in the class table does not matter for this to work, don’t need to complicate it. If something says you get 2 extra level 2 spell slots, that means you get 2 SPs two times…4SPs. Wizards Arcane Recovery says regain spell slots up to half your Wizard lvl, but no more then 6 spell slot lvl total…so this translates to regain SPs up to half Wizard lvl max 6 SPs. Just remember, 6 SP is good, considering you have access to all your spells at 12 level Wizard.
Upcasting is simple, if you upcast a 1 lvl spell as a lvl 3, it costs 4 SPs. If you upcast a 3 lvl spell as a 6 lvl it costs 9 SPs.
This leads to new magic items, such as SPs magic items. New types of enchantments on focus items.
Ok I think that’s it on the magic system…maybe I forgot something.
Onto Multiclassing. I guess you can give a player enough rope to hang themselves and create a shit character by letting them take as many classes as they want, but I think knowing 3 classes max is good.
Class Level
This is the level of any particular class
Character Level
This is the total of all Class Levels
Prerequisite,
Main stat of new class must be at least 12
Experience Points
The same Experience progression table is used for everyone and is based on Character Level.
Hit Points and Hit Dice
Every time you gain a class level, you role the appropriate dice for that class for Hit Points. Same goes whenever you get a 1 lvl in a class. So a 1 lvl Wizard rolls a d6 for HPs, then next level wizard switches to Fighter and now rolls a d10 for HPs.
We don’t use Hit Dice like RAW, we use a very diminished system and we certainly don’t use the absurd full health after a long rest. Not going to get into that, I will skip it.
Proficiency Bonus
This is based on Character level, not class level. So everyone has the same Prof+
Proficiency
I don’t like the RAW rules on this. In this system, when you learn a new class, you get all the proficiencies of the new class. Maybe WoTC had a reason for this, but whatever it is, it is insignificant to create an unnecessary limitation like this.
Feats
I am using the Unearthed Arcana system that was tested for 5.5 rules. Everyone starts at 1 Character level with a Feat and gain a new Feat every 4 Character level. This also means that the +2 stat feature that use to be at 4 level is now a Feat that can be chosen or not. Prerequisites still need to be met.
Class Features
Like RAW, when you get a level in a class, you gain all the features of that level, with some caveats mentioned below.
Overlapping Class Features
If your new class has a feature that your other class had, they do not stack, this includes uses per rest. In regard to uses per rest, if one class has more uses per rest then the other, you will use the greater amount of uses per rest for the same class feature.
Also, if a duplicate class feature has new sub abilities you will gain those too. For example Channel Divinity might have new powers you other class does not have.
Extra Attack
This is a hard one. RAW says they do not stack and give Warlocks Thirsty Blade as an example. A 5 lvl Warlock who is also a 5 lvl Fighter would get 4 attacks per round, while a 10 lvl fighter would get 2.
So implemented a rule that says everyone who gets extra attacks from a class feature has to follow the Fighter progression table for extra attacks. So if you are multiclassing, and one of your classes has a feature that gives extra attack you cannot use a 3 attack until you reach Character level 11, which is when Fighter gets a 3 Extra Attack.
Spell Casting
If your new class has spell slots, add them as SPs to your existing SP pool. Any further levels in a spell slot class, you would continue to add new spell slots as SPs to your existing pool of SPs.
New spell casting classes will work the same for spells, you have access to all the spells available to the new class and level. This includes adding cantrips and spells known to the appropriate class and level. This includes the new focus object that must be on person to cast spells from the new class.
Increase based on level
If a spell increases in power based on level, it is increased based on Character level, not Class level.
Skills
When a new class is gained, 1 skill from the new class can be learned or a new tool, and it must be a skill/tool that the character does not have. Cannot learn same skill/tool to gain expertise.
Saving Throws
Unless I missed it, I saw no mention of Saving Throws Proficiency in RAW for Multiclassing. Here is what I like, Saving Throws Proficiency is based on the dominant class. So the highest leveled Class is the Save Profs are used. If we have classes that are same level, the last dominant class is used until one of the classes gets ahead of the others, then that one is the dominant class.
Firstly this should be in Homebrew, not General.
Secondly, letting a 20th level character cast a 9th level spell 10 times a day is a bit much. How 10 times?
"It works as so, you add all spell slots together, throw in main stat mod on top, once, and you got your total SPs. The cost to cast a spell is equal to the spell level of the spell being cast. So 1 lvl spell costs 1 SP, 2 lvl 2 SP, 3 lvl 3 SP…and so on. SPs are regained after long rest."
+
"If something says you get 2 extra level 2 spell slots, that means you get 2 SPs two times…4SPs"
So this means all spell slots together would be 84 and spell mod, +5, means 89.
89 / 9 = 10.44 recurring.
So 10 9th level spells per day.
"Divine Casters, Wizards and all prepared spell casters no longer need to prepare. These casters always have access to all their spells, like a spontaneous caster."
So Sorcerers, Bards and Warlocks just got royally shafted. You've also rendered many subclass features utterly obsolete. Clerics and Druids have now been given a massive upgrade. There is no longer any point at all to being anything other than a Cleric, Druid or Wizard.
"Wizards Arcane Recovery says regain spell slots up to half your Wizard lvl, but no more then 6 spell slot lvl total…so this translates to regain SPs up to half Wizard lvl max 6 SPs. Just remember, 6 SP is good, considering you have access to all your spells at 12 level Wizard."
Arcane Recovery is you recover spent spell slots with a combined level of half wizard level rounded up but individual spell slot cannot be greater than 5th level. This means a 20th level Wizard could recover 10 spell levels worth of slots, like two 5th level slots, or maybe a 4th level and three 3rd level. I don't know where you're getting 6th from, and I don't know why you're saying the max SP would be 6. I also don't know what is meant by the 12 level Wizard.
Max level is 20. Not 12.
"Upcasting is simple, if you upcast a 1 lvl spell as a lvl 3, it costs 4 SPs. If you upcast a 3 lvl spell as a 6 lvl it costs 9 SPs."
Doesn't make sense. An upcasted spell has more benefits but is still usually weaker than other spells of that level. Normally, a 2nd level spell cast at 4th level is just a 4th level spell - and would typically be weaker than other normal 4th level spells. It should be 4 SP, so I don't know why this extra rule exists to now make it 6 SP. Seems odd. It doesn't do anything but inconvenience a player.
==
Your system basically means a 20th level Wizard, with the greatest spell list and most broken spells, is now just shy of being a high god. They can wish for 1 simulacra, and that sim will be able to cast another 9 9th level spells, and easily set up an infinite army of simulacra each with 9x 9th level spell slots. That unlimited Time Stops, unlimited Imprisonments, unlimited Power Word Kills, unlimited Meteor Swarms, unlimited Foresight, unlimited Invulnerability, and unlimited Wishes. They can utterly destroy and remake WORLDS with pure unfettered ease. They would have unlimited Clone spells for unbridled immortality.
Nothing, short of a higher God could do anything to them.
Your system is ridiculously unbalanced.
Absolute, unyielding, NOPE.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Not sure how you are getting 10 9th lvl spells at lvl 20 wizard. A 20th lvl wizard has 22 Spell Points, so a 20th lvl Wizard can cast 2 9th lvl spells and 1 4th lvl spell or 4 1st lvl spell
In your system, you state and a I quote again: 'If something says you get 2 extra level 2 spell slots, that means you get 2 SPs two times…4SPs'
So from this:
-
Your system is broken by the wording you have chosen.
Also, not sure why you're reinventing the wheel when DMG already has a Spell Point system that is reasonably balanced.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
That was referring to something that would give you extra spell points...like a magic items or a feature. I wrote up top to figure out how many SP a casters gets. Add up all the spell slots.
The reason for system was to balance out that prepare spell casters become spontaneous casters, so casters have access to all spells without preparing them.
Regardless, with my system I realized lvl 20 casters actually are too limited at lvl 20. They have the option to blow all spell points on 2 or 3 lvl 9 spells and are done for the day. Scrapping this idea to rework it
It does need a rework. But keep it up, you'll get there. Balancing homebrew systems is difficult, just keep trying. You got this. 💪
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.