i am making a new subclass for fighter, and i have everything figured except the last ability at 18th level. i thought of doing an improvement to the tricks but i would have to make and extreme increase to the tricks for it to be worth it in my opinion.
does anyone have any advice? not looking to steal ideas but i need help with it.
3rd level- has tricks that work similar to battle master, and an ability to add STR to damage. can throw 2 small weapons (darts, daggers and custom weapons that i designed) with the same hand using the same attack roll. start with 2 tricks.
7th level- gain benefit of two weapon fighting for thrown weapons. this does not stack with the ability to throw two with the same hand. 1 more trick
10th- improved dice for the use in tricks. 1 more trick.
15th- more uses of tricks. 1 more trick.
18th- improved dice for the use in tricks and 1 more trick.
Thrown weapons already have strength to damage unless they're Finesse Weapon and your Dex is higher, just in case you didn't know. Though it's also fine to add that damage anyway even on a Str Throw since it wouldn't be too high to be overpowered. Also, though I'm not certain, I think that you can Two-Weapon Fighting while throwing, since Throwing Weapons are melee weapons. Probably to be safe add another small effect there, like how Battle Master has the Know Your Enemy feature there. If I'm wrong, not overpowered; if I'm right, they still get something.
Now on to ideas of features for 18th level. The power of this feature may need to be lower if your following the Battle Master idea closely, as it's 18th Level is literally just increase the die to d12. So here's some to look through:
Brutal Reprieve. If you Critically Hit with a Weapon that you Threw, you regain 1 Trick Die.
Ricochet Throw. If you reduce a Target to 0 Hit Point with a Weapon that you Threw, you may make another Attack Roll with that Weapon against a creature that is with in a distance from the first Target equal to the Standard Thrown Range of that Weapon.
Returning Weapon. When you throw a weapon with in its Standard Range, you may choose to have that weapon return to your hand.
Power Throw. As an Action, you may throw a Weapon with massive power. You make an attack with a Thrown Weapon, but you may target an area of a line with a width of 5ft and a length equal to that weapon's Long Range. You make an Attack Roll against all Targets with in that Area. You must take a Long Rest before using this Feature again.
This is from a Knife fighter I based on Gangs of New York, I've not got it on D&DB as I have it over on Drive thru RPG as part of something else, its a mix up of abilities from a few classes but seems to work well, feel free to lift anything you want:
Class Name: Fighter, Knife Fighter Archetype
The Knife Fighter spends time in alleyways, taverns, cellars, wharfs and dockside "underground" fighting pits. Many come from gangs or the underclass. They utilise a variety of weapons which they universally refer to as Knives; Knives in this respect relates to: Daggers, Fighting Knife & Kukri (treat both as Short Sword), Stiletto (treat as Short Sword but deals piercing damage not slashing), Meat Hook (treat as Sickle) and Meat Cleaver (treat as Hand Axe). Any reference to Knives or Knife in the description below should relate to this list of weapons.
Two Weapon Defence: At 3rd level, you have honed Knife Fighting style. While using a Knife in each hand the Knife Fighter gains +2 Armour Class. In order to gain this bonus the Knife Fighter must be wearing Light or Medium Armour and cannot be holding or using a shield. Additionally, all Knives are considered Finesse weapons.
Blade Flurry: At 7th level, you have mastered quick stabbing attacks. Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn with a Knife, you can make two attacks with a knife as a bonus action. You can perform a Blade Flurry a number of times equal to your Dexterity Modifier (min 1). Your uses of Blade Flurry recharge after a Long Rest.
One with the Knife: At 10th level, you have mastered the art of using your knives in a dirty fighting style; striking low blows and verbally taunting an opponent during your fight. You can use a bonus action to start using a variety of tricks to deceive, distract and fluster your opponent, whilst doing this, as long as you are using only Knives, you gain: A bonus to your Armour Class equal to your Charisma modifier (min +1). Your Knifes score a critical hit on a natural roll of 19 or 20. You have advantage on Strength (Athletics) and Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks. One with the Knife lasts for 1 minute and you can use it twice per Short or Long Rest.
Flick of the Wrist: At 15th level you learn to parry incoming weapons with a deft flick of the wrist. As long as you are wielding only Knives you can use your reaction to perform an Uncanny Dodge as per Rogue.
Between the Ribs: At 18th level you learn the value of sinking a blade between the ribs to target internal organs. You can sneak attack in the same way as a rogue, if your sneak attack hits you deal an extra 3d6 damage.
@Slade Tracey, you are right. i did not know that you used strength for damage with a thrown weapon. i will look into both the throwing weapons and two weapon fighting, but if they do not say you can i will have the two weapon fighting there just to make sure. i also already have tricks for both a power throw, and a ricochet. they are less that what you have so as not to be the clear choice for an option. i do like the regaining a trick die and the returning weapon though.
@Rob76, while i am intrigued by your subclass, the only thing that really applies to my idea is the adding of extra damage for a surprise attack.
@ everyone, this subclass is meant to function both as a battle master and the arcane archer, providing different options that only affect ranged attacks. they do still have melee abilities from fighter though.
I've got a few more ideas, see if any of these catch your eye:
Deadeye. Once per Turn, if you hit with a Thrown Weapon you may add damage to that Weapon equal to your Trick Die.
Grandstand. When you use a Trick as an Action, you may immediately use a Bonus Action to gain a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to your Trick Die. (Temporary Hit Points do not stack)
Throw Anything. For you, all Melee Weapons that do not have the Thrown Property gain the Thrown(10/30) Property, any Thrown Property with Ranges less than this gain those Ranges instead.
Eye for an Eye. When you take damage from a Ranged Attack, you may make an Opportunity Attack against that attacker with a Thrown Weapon, if they are in at least Long Range.
Something that always erk'd me with Battlemaster was the limited number of superiority dice, always made the Battlemaster more of a one fight wonder, have you thought about using more of a Monk Ki point style?
1 Trick point per fighter level, you can spend the points upto your fighter level each turn and they renew on a long rest, that way you can add points depending on the opponents you are facing.
1 Trick Point = +1 damage to a successful hit + tack on a special ability such as:
Disarming Throw: You target an opponents hand/fingers, choose their left or right hand, on a hit target makes strength ability check, on a fail they drop any item they are holding in that hand.
To the Knee: You target an opponents knee, choose left or right, on a hit target makes Dex saving throw or be knocked down to one knee as your attack takes a leg out form under them. The target has their speed reduced by 50% until they receive healing.
***
Other things to think about are how many weapons can you conceivably have on you to make max usage of any throwing ability? From my LARPing experience I found 4 daggers across the chest, 2 on the back of each forearm, 2 in each boot and 2 hand axes and 2 shortswords or daggers in loops/scabbards around the waist is about as much as your can realistically carry and get access to easily.
Now D&D obviously isn't realistic but its worth planning where things are on your characters body, its all well and good carry 20+ daggers but if the "scabbard" for them has to be a bag of holding you might find yourself spending actions pulling them out of your bag instead of actually attacking, this is where conventional archers with bows/crossbows have the advantage on ammo over a thrower, its much easier to carry around a bow & 40 arrows than 40 daggers/darts/hand axes etc.
It might be worth having an ability that acts like a combination of the magic item Quiver of Ehlonna & Robe of Useful items that allow you to store "x" small throwing weapons such as:
Trick-shot Bandoleer: You've tinkered with a bandoleer that resembles a harness with scabbards/holsters under that arms and 3 small dart compartments across the chest. You can store up to 20 daggers or darts in an extra-dimensional space and draw them from either scabbard or chest compartment as if they were normal scabbards. These Compartments can only be used to store daggers or darts/throwing stars.
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* Need a character idea? Search for "Rob76's Unused" in the Story and Lore section.
@ Rob76- i like the idea for the points so i may use the concept if it works with what i am working towards. as far as the Bandoleer idea i am not sure that giving a magic item at third level is going to sit well with others. there may be an ability to have it, if it is started as something mundane at first that carried like 5 daggers and 5 darts. then next subclass feature then makes it magical and store twice as many. there was a magic item back in 3.5, bracer of infinite blades. it could create non-magical daggers that disappeared after 1 round. it had charges that could be used to create different effects i will look into that as well.
as far as the tricks you guys proposed, i noticed that a couple of them also appear on a rogue version of Master Thrower that i ran across last week when i was starting this idea on paper. while i like that one, and plan on playing one, it just doesn't fit with how i envision someone who throws a weapon, but that is my opinion.
the idea i am having currently approaches the Bandoleer and bracer idea in that he can turn any small object into a dagger temporarily (1 round) and then it reverts back. the subclass would have a list of different tricks that cost points and depending on how many the character expends on the throw, it can change what it does. for example, there would be attack rolled based tricks that could add a +1 to the attack roll or ignore cover based on how many points are invest into it. and then damage based ones that could deal all sorts of energy types and adding different abilities scores to it. and then there would caster tricks, one for each school of magic.
Ignore cover...sounds like a ricocheting shot, throw weapon off a wall or into the ground to bounce it around cover, you might also want to take a look at the matt mercer gunslinger class for other inspiring trick shot options/mechanics.
You could also base the "turn any object into a dagger" on the Magic Stone cantrip, one action turns three stones or non magical objects into daggers that disappear after 1 minute or after you "cast" the cantrip again, gives you a way of replenishing your thrown ammo without actually having to carry a metric ton of ammo and giving the class a single cantrip style ability early on won't impact other classes in the party to much.
(edit) you could also scale the number of daggers it generates to the extra attack class ability from fighter, so every time you gain the extra attack class feature it generates and additional 3 daggers per casting, so 3 dagger at level 3-4, 6 daggers a level 5-10, 9 daggers at levels 11-19, 12 daggers at level 20.
okay i can do that would it be a good idea to make an actual cantrip for it then or just a subclass ability. and i also have a ricochet but i can add an additional ability to it which makes more sense than just giving it disadvantage on a second strike. this can make it even better thank you.
Rather creating a lot of extra work for yourself, I'd just stick the Magic Stone Cantrip in a level 3 and have a bit of fluff that says they can use the cantrip on small rocks or pieces of metal and the rock/pebble/metal takes the form of a dagger or dart for the duration of the cantrip.
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* Need a character idea? Search for "Rob76's Unused" in the Story and Lore section.
i don't mind extra work as i am unemployable thanks to the Army. so having something that explicitly say that i don't mind doing cos i have a lot of time to work it out. though it may be easier which i understand is your point, i still have time to put the work in.
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i am making a new subclass for fighter, and i have everything figured except the last ability at 18th level. i thought of doing an improvement to the tricks but i would have to make and extreme increase to the tricks for it to be worth it in my opinion.
does anyone have any advice? not looking to steal ideas but i need help with it.
Hi there. Where can we see what abilities you have already? So we/i can give better aid for you
^ Agreed. Please, provide us information of what you have already.
okay what i have so far is this:
3rd level- has tricks that work similar to battle master, and an ability to add STR to damage. can throw 2 small weapons (darts, daggers and custom weapons that i designed) with the same hand using the same attack roll. start with 2 tricks.
7th level- gain benefit of two weapon fighting for thrown weapons. this does not stack with the ability to throw two with the same hand. 1 more trick
10th- improved dice for the use in tricks. 1 more trick.
15th- more uses of tricks. 1 more trick.
18th- improved dice for the use in tricks and 1 more trick.
Thrown weapons already have strength to damage unless they're Finesse Weapon and your Dex is higher, just in case you didn't know. Though it's also fine to add that damage anyway even on a Str Throw since it wouldn't be too high to be overpowered. Also, though I'm not certain, I think that you can Two-Weapon Fighting while throwing, since Throwing Weapons are melee weapons. Probably to be safe add another small effect there, like how Battle Master has the Know Your Enemy feature there. If I'm wrong, not overpowered; if I'm right, they still get something.
Now on to ideas of features for 18th level. The power of this feature may need to be lower if your following the Battle Master idea closely, as it's 18th Level is literally just increase the die to d12. So here's some to look through:
This is from a Knife fighter I based on Gangs of New York, I've not got it on D&DB as I have it over on Drive thru RPG as part of something else, its a mix up of abilities from a few classes but seems to work well, feel free to lift anything you want:
Class Name: Fighter, Knife Fighter Archetype
The Knife Fighter spends time in alleyways, taverns, cellars, wharfs and dockside "underground" fighting pits. Many come from gangs or the underclass. They utilise a variety of weapons which they universally refer to as Knives; Knives in this respect relates to: Daggers, Fighting Knife & Kukri (treat both as Short Sword), Stiletto (treat as Short Sword but deals piercing damage not slashing), Meat Hook (treat as Sickle) and Meat Cleaver (treat as Hand Axe). Any reference to Knives or Knife in the description below should relate to this list of weapons.
Two Weapon Defence:
At 3rd level, you have honed Knife Fighting style. While using a Knife in each hand the Knife Fighter gains +2 Armour Class. In order to gain this bonus the Knife Fighter must be wearing Light or Medium Armour and cannot be holding or using a shield. Additionally, all Knives are considered Finesse weapons.
Blade Flurry:
At 7th level, you have mastered quick stabbing attacks. Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn with a Knife, you can make two attacks with a knife as a bonus action. You can perform a Blade Flurry a number of times equal to your Dexterity Modifier (min 1). Your uses of Blade Flurry recharge after a Long Rest.
One with the Knife:
At 10th level, you have mastered the art of using your knives in a dirty fighting style; striking low blows and verbally taunting an opponent during your fight. You can use a bonus action to start using a variety of tricks to deceive, distract and fluster your opponent, whilst doing this, as long as you are using only Knives, you gain:
A bonus to your Armour Class equal to your Charisma modifier (min +1).
Your Knifes score a critical hit on a natural roll of 19 or 20.
You have advantage on Strength (Athletics) and Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks.
One with the Knife lasts for 1 minute and you can use it twice per Short or Long Rest.
Flick of the Wrist:
At 15th level you learn to parry incoming weapons with a deft flick of the wrist. As long as you are wielding only Knives you can use your reaction to perform an Uncanny Dodge as per Rogue.
Between the Ribs:
At 18th level you learn the value of sinking a blade between the ribs to target internal organs. You can sneak attack in the same way as a rogue, if your sneak attack hits you deal an extra 3d6 damage.
@Slade Tracey, you are right. i did not know that you used strength for damage with a thrown weapon. i will look into both the throwing weapons and two weapon fighting, but if they do not say you can i will have the two weapon fighting there just to make sure. i also already have tricks for both a power throw, and a ricochet. they are less that what you have so as not to be the clear choice for an option. i do like the regaining a trick die and the returning weapon though.
@Rob76, while i am intrigued by your subclass, the only thing that really applies to my idea is the adding of extra damage for a surprise attack.
@ everyone, this subclass is meant to function both as a battle master and the arcane archer, providing different options that only affect ranged attacks. they do still have melee abilities from fighter though.
I've got a few more ideas, see if any of these catch your eye:
Something that always erk'd me with Battlemaster was the limited number of superiority dice, always made the Battlemaster more of a one fight wonder, have you thought about using more of a Monk Ki point style?
1 Trick point per fighter level, you can spend the points upto your fighter level each turn and they renew on a long rest, that way you can add points depending on the opponents you are facing.
1 Trick Point = +1 damage to a successful hit + tack on a special ability such as:
Disarming Throw: You target an opponents hand/fingers, choose their left or right hand, on a hit target makes strength ability check, on a fail they drop any item they are holding in that hand.
To the Knee: You target an opponents knee, choose left or right, on a hit target makes Dex saving throw or be knocked down to one knee as your attack takes a leg out form under them. The target has their speed reduced by 50% until they receive healing.
***
Other things to think about are how many weapons can you conceivably have on you to make max usage of any throwing ability? From my LARPing experience I found 4 daggers across the chest, 2 on the back of each forearm, 2 in each boot and 2 hand axes and 2 shortswords or daggers in loops/scabbards around the waist is about as much as your can realistically carry and get access to easily.
Now D&D obviously isn't realistic but its worth planning where things are on your characters body, its all well and good carry 20+ daggers but if the "scabbard" for them has to be a bag of holding you might find yourself spending actions pulling them out of your bag instead of actually attacking, this is where conventional archers with bows/crossbows have the advantage on ammo over a thrower, its much easier to carry around a bow & 40 arrows than 40 daggers/darts/hand axes etc.
It might be worth having an ability that acts like a combination of the magic item Quiver of Ehlonna & Robe of Useful items that allow you to store "x" small throwing weapons such as:
Trick-shot Bandoleer: You've tinkered with a bandoleer that resembles a harness with scabbards/holsters under that arms and 3 small dart compartments across the chest. You can store up to 20 daggers or darts in an extra-dimensional space and draw them from either scabbard or chest compartment as if they were normal scabbards. These Compartments can only be used to store daggers or darts/throwing stars.
@ Rob76- i like the idea for the points so i may use the concept if it works with what i am working towards. as far as the Bandoleer idea i am not sure that giving a magic item at third level is going to sit well with others. there may be an ability to have it, if it is started as something mundane at first that carried like 5 daggers and 5 darts. then next subclass feature then makes it magical and store twice as many. there was a magic item back in 3.5, bracer of infinite blades. it could create non-magical daggers that disappeared after 1 round. it had charges that could be used to create different effects i will look into that as well.
as far as the tricks you guys proposed, i noticed that a couple of them also appear on a rogue version of Master Thrower that i ran across last week when i was starting this idea on paper. while i like that one, and plan on playing one, it just doesn't fit with how i envision someone who throws a weapon, but that is my opinion.
the idea i am having currently approaches the Bandoleer and bracer idea in that he can turn any small object into a dagger temporarily (1 round) and then it reverts back. the subclass would have a list of different tricks that cost points and depending on how many the character expends on the throw, it can change what it does. for example, there would be attack rolled based tricks that could add a +1 to the attack roll or ignore cover based on how many points are invest into it. and then damage based ones that could deal all sorts of energy types and adding different abilities scores to it. and then there would caster tricks, one for each school of magic.
what do you guys think?
Ignore cover...sounds like a ricocheting shot, throw weapon off a wall or into the ground to bounce it around cover, you might also want to take a look at the matt mercer gunslinger class for other inspiring trick shot options/mechanics.
You could also base the "turn any object into a dagger" on the Magic Stone cantrip, one action turns three stones or non magical objects into daggers that disappear after 1 minute or after you "cast" the cantrip again, gives you a way of replenishing your thrown ammo without actually having to carry a metric ton of ammo and giving the class a single cantrip style ability early on won't impact other classes in the party to much.
(edit) you could also scale the number of daggers it generates to the extra attack class ability from fighter, so every time you gain the extra attack class feature it generates and additional 3 daggers per casting, so 3 dagger at level 3-4, 6 daggers a level 5-10, 9 daggers at levels 11-19, 12 daggers at level 20.
okay i can do that would it be a good idea to make an actual cantrip for it then or just a subclass ability. and i also have a ricochet but i can add an additional ability to it which makes more sense than just giving it disadvantage on a second strike. this can make it even better thank you.
Rather creating a lot of extra work for yourself, I'd just stick the Magic Stone Cantrip in a level 3 and have a bit of fluff that says they can use the cantrip on small rocks or pieces of metal and the rock/pebble/metal takes the form of a dagger or dart for the duration of the cantrip.
i don't mind extra work as i am unemployable thanks to the Army. so having something that explicitly say that i don't mind doing cos i have a lot of time to work it out. though it may be easier which i understand is your point, i still have time to put the work in.