I was looking through a number of feats centered around a battle-hardened warrior making his/her LAST STAND before dying. There's already a bunch in the homebrew list. And the most compelling ones also felt WAY overpowered. It's actually difficult to make one that's compelling but also balanced. I tried my hand at this concept because I really like the idea. It's here:
Some of my favorite ones made it so that you would simply... not fall unconscious, but would wait until your next turn, take that whole turn, THEN fall unconscious. That seemed WAY to generous. I felt it made more sense to work as a REACTION. But just a simple reaction attack seemed boring, so I made it so you have a little extra oomph if you're seeking dying vengeance against the enemy who "killed" you, but providing a bit of advantage and crit.
I think we would first need to define what exactly we mean by "Last" Stand. I mean, are we really talking about a true LAST Stand, or just a "Last Stand for Today", or a "Nearly-Last-But-Probably-Not-Stand"? Basically - is the player planning on continuing to play this character, or is the player planning on retiring this character upon THIS one final death and rolling a fresh new character sheet?
I mean, we all know that in D&D, dropping to zero hit points is an occupational hazard. Half-orcs and a bunch of subclasses and one spell all have ways of bouncing back from that pretty easily, once a day. Heck, even dying outright, like if a castle falls on you, while you're on fire, and the castle is on fire, can be fixed. Your friends just have to sift through the charred rubble and find enough pieces to cast Raise Dead or Resurrection on. So if we're talking about getting some extra action, or a bonus attack, or something like that, I wouldn't go too far because that sort of thing might happen every other combat session.
But if the player is planning a TRUE Last Stand, then I wouldn't even try to restrict that with some defined feat or whatever. If it's a character that the party loves, and if that character is making a Last Stand for an important reason that will have a profound effect on others for some time to come, if they are truly giving their life for their one true purpose... then I would prefer to just use narrative and allow that player to take either a full extra attack, or maybe make their final hit an autocrit, or whatever it takes to make the player feel that their character's death had meaning.
After all, the story is more important than the rules. Just my 2 c.p.
its clearly supposed to be something you do from time to time and getting advantage on a single attack with increases range is good even if it does take dropping to 0 hp
Haha... "Nearly-Last-But-Probably-Not-Stand." Thanks for the feedback. I agree that, if this were a true last stand, a feat doesn't really cover that kind of heroic death. That should be all RP and set up by the DM; a feat should be useful more than once. But it's kind of a value judgement as to how powerful it should be, taking into account how often it happens. If it's too powerful, there would be an incentive to "die" all the time and the whole RP part of it just gets diminished. And the RP aspect of this feat is really the whole point. A single attack isn't all THAT impactful in most battles. This is why the +1Con is included, so it's also somewhat useful all the time in order to get this bit of flavor added to your character.
As for the instant death from massive damage part... I felt like it was silly to have any kind of last stand if you get utterly destroyed by a huge attack. If you got crushed by a landslide, completely cremated by dragon fire or sliced into 8 pieces, you wouldn't be getting some last attack in.
I guess a better way to word this and conceptualize this is to say that your character would gain Inspiration for a final attack before falling. But the mechanics of how Inspiration works just felt wonky... like extra steps. Maybe it would've been better to just say, "..you gain Inspiration for a final strike..."
I guess a better way to word this and conceptualize this is to say that your character would gain Inspiration for a final attack before falling. But the mechanics of how Inspiration works just felt wonky... like extra steps. Maybe it would've been better to just say, "..you gain Inspiration for a final strike..."
To expand for a moment, if I may. I know the original post specifies a melee character, but the general concept could be expanded a bit further. The notion of "death by sudden massive damage" like the castle falling on you, pretty much negates any chance of that character making any further action, however heroic it may be. So, we could maybe extend the scope of one existing Feat a bit to allow for any character to benefit from a Last Stand. So maybe if a character (any character) takes the feat "Inspiring Leader" - and that character drops to zero hit points - the next time one of their allies hits that target with an attack roll before the end of the next turn, that attack (if it hits) is an auto-crit. That way the party still gains the benefit of a Last Stand, not because of the inherent heroics of that character but because of the heroism that that character has inspired in others.
To expand for a moment, if I may. I know the original post specifies a melee character, but the general concept could be expanded a bit further. The notion of "death by sudden massive damage" like the castle falling on you, pretty much negates any chance of that character making any further action, however heroic it may be. So, we could maybe extend the scope of one existing Feat a bit to allow for any character to benefit from a Last Stand. So maybe if a character (any character) takes the feat "Inspiring Leader" - and that character drops to zero hit points - the next time one of their allies hits that target with an attack roll before the end of the next turn, that attack (if it hits) is an auto-crit. That way the party still gains the benefit of a Last Stand, not because of the inherent heroics of that character but because of the heroism that that character has inspired in others.
Just a thought.
that seems a bit complicated you could just let work with ranged attacks and cantrips
I actually originally wrote it to include a reactionary spellcast, thinking that it could be useful to casters. But I got bogged down by the different types of casts, or could an "ability" be used... then got into the thorny issue of trying to heal yourself as your dying action. Then it suddenly ceased to be an heroic last stand and became a Cheat Death feat. So I resigned it to being a physical fighter feat. I DID include "...melee or ranged attack" in the wording -- not necessarily to include archer-types, but mostly for a situation where the character's assailant isn't within melee range, in which case they could throw an axe or something
I'm short, I like the idea of this feat, but my main issue is that it steps on the toes of the Samurai fighter's capstone ability. Not only by opening it up to everyone who has a Con of 13+, but also allows characters to have this ability at level 4 at earliest.
I'm short, I like the idea of this feat, but my main issue is that it steps on the toes of the Samurai fighter's capstone ability. Not only by opening it up to everyone who has a Con of 13+, but also allows characters to have this ability at level 4 at earliest.
it does step toes though i think balance wise its fine though the problem is with variant humans who can get it at 1st
I'm short, I like the idea of this feat, but my main issue is that it steps on the toes of the Samurai fighter's capstone ability. Not only by opening it up to everyone who has a Con of 13+, but also allows characters to have this ability at level 4 at earliest.
it does step toes though i think balance wise its fine though the problem is with variant humans who can get it at 1st
True but you're also forgetting the custom origin characters that can also get it at level 1 and not just variant humans
I'm short, I like the idea of this feat, but my main issue is that it steps on the toes of the Samurai fighter's capstone ability. Not only by opening it up to everyone who has a Con of 13+, but also allows characters to have this ability at level 4 at earliest.
it does step toes though i think balance wise its fine though the problem is with variant humans who can get it at 1st
True but you're also forgetting the custom origin characters that can also get it at level 1 and not just variant humans
yeah but those are just reskinned variant humans (mostly you can take dark vision instead of a skill)
I was looking through a number of feats centered around a battle-hardened warrior making his/her LAST STAND before dying. There's already a bunch in the homebrew list. And the most compelling ones also felt WAY overpowered. It's actually difficult to make one that's compelling but also balanced. I tried my hand at this concept because I really like the idea. It's here:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/feats/520081-last-stand
Some of my favorite ones made it so that you would simply... not fall unconscious, but would wait until your next turn, take that whole turn, THEN fall unconscious. That seemed WAY to generous. I felt it made more sense to work as a REACTION. But just a simple reaction attack seemed boring, so I made it so you have a little extra oomph if you're seeking dying vengeance against the enemy who "killed" you, but providing a bit of advantage and crit.
Thoughts? Balanced or still too powerful?
I think we would first need to define what exactly we mean by "Last" Stand. I mean, are we really talking about a true LAST Stand, or just a "Last Stand for Today", or a "Nearly-Last-But-Probably-Not-Stand"? Basically - is the player planning on continuing to play this character, or is the player planning on retiring this character upon THIS one final death and rolling a fresh new character sheet?
I mean, we all know that in D&D, dropping to zero hit points is an occupational hazard. Half-orcs and a bunch of subclasses and one spell all have ways of bouncing back from that pretty easily, once a day. Heck, even dying outright, like if a castle falls on you, while you're on fire, and the castle is on fire, can be fixed. Your friends just have to sift through the charred rubble and find enough pieces to cast Raise Dead or Resurrection on. So if we're talking about getting some extra action, or a bonus attack, or something like that, I wouldn't go too far because that sort of thing might happen every other combat session.
But if the player is planning a TRUE Last Stand, then I wouldn't even try to restrict that with some defined feat or whatever. If it's a character that the party loves, and if that character is making a Last Stand for an important reason that will have a profound effect on others for some time to come, if they are truly giving their life for their one true purpose... then I would prefer to just use narrative and allow that player to take either a full extra attack, or maybe make their final hit an autocrit, or whatever it takes to make the player feel that their character's death had meaning.
After all, the story is more important than the rules. Just my 2 c.p.
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
its clearly supposed to be something you do from time to time and getting advantage on a single attack with increases range is good even if it does take dropping to 0 hp
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I really like this feat! Perhaps, based in what AnzioFaro said, maybe if you suffer instant death, it is an autocrit?
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agreed
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Haha... "Nearly-Last-But-Probably-Not-Stand." Thanks for the feedback. I agree that, if this were a true last stand, a feat doesn't really cover that kind of heroic death. That should be all RP and set up by the DM; a feat should be useful more than once. But it's kind of a value judgement as to how powerful it should be, taking into account how often it happens. If it's too powerful, there would be an incentive to "die" all the time and the whole RP part of it just gets diminished. And the RP aspect of this feat is really the whole point. A single attack isn't all THAT impactful in most battles. This is why the +1Con is included, so it's also somewhat useful all the time in order to get this bit of flavor added to your character.
As for the instant death from massive damage part... I felt like it was silly to have any kind of last stand if you get utterly destroyed by a huge attack. If you got crushed by a landslide, completely cremated by dragon fire or sliced into 8 pieces, you wouldn't be getting some last attack in.
I guess a better way to word this and conceptualize this is to say that your character would gain Inspiration for a final attack before falling. But the mechanics of how Inspiration works just felt wonky... like extra steps. Maybe it would've been better to just say, "..you gain Inspiration for a final strike..."
no the current wording is fine
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i am a sauce priest
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To expand for a moment, if I may. I know the original post specifies a melee character, but the general concept could be expanded a bit further. The notion of "death by sudden massive damage" like the castle falling on you, pretty much negates any chance of that character making any further action, however heroic it may be. So, we could maybe extend the scope of one existing Feat a bit to allow for any character to benefit from a Last Stand. So maybe if a character (any character) takes the feat "Inspiring Leader" - and that character drops to zero hit points - the next time one of their allies hits that target with an attack roll before the end of the next turn, that attack (if it hits) is an auto-crit. That way the party still gains the benefit of a Last Stand, not because of the inherent heroics of that character but because of the heroism that that character has inspired in others.
Just a thought.
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
that seems a bit complicated you could just let work with ranged attacks and cantrips
Check out my homebrew subclasses spells magic items feats monsters races
i am a sauce priest
help create a world here
I actually originally wrote it to include a reactionary spellcast, thinking that it could be useful to casters. But I got bogged down by the different types of casts, or could an "ability" be used... then got into the thorny issue of trying to heal yourself as your dying action. Then it suddenly ceased to be an heroic last stand and became a Cheat Death feat. So I resigned it to being a physical fighter feat. I DID include "...melee or ranged attack" in the wording -- not necessarily to include archer-types, but mostly for a situation where the character's assailant isn't within melee range, in which case they could throw an axe or something
I'm short, I like the idea of this feat, but my main issue is that it steps on the toes of the Samurai fighter's capstone ability. Not only by opening it up to everyone who has a Con of 13+, but also allows characters to have this ability at level 4 at earliest.
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it does step toes though i think balance wise its fine though the problem is with variant humans who can get it at 1st
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True but you're also forgetting the custom origin characters that can also get it at level 1 and not just variant humans
My Homebrew | Background | Feats | Magic Items | Races | Spells | Subclass | Homebrewery
To see my more recent homebrew creations, please check out my content on Hombrewery.
yeah but those are just reskinned variant humans (mostly you can take dark vision instead of a skill)
Check out my homebrew subclasses spells magic items feats monsters races
i am a sauce priest
help create a world here