So, I just made a homebrew subclass and would like a little feedback on it. It's called the "Way of the Judoka".
On paper I think it looks good, and in the echo chamber of my head it seems to revitalize grappling by giving grappling some new features it doesn't have in the base game. Basically, you're grabbing enemies and throwing them into other enemies using Judo throws, or just throwing them prone if there are no other enemies around. If you want to know what those look like (and don't already know) you can do a YouTube search for Judo throws or Olympic Judo.
I haven't had a chance to play test it yet as I'm starting a game from level 1 right now and haven't gotten to level 3 yet. However, I'd like to get out of my echo chamber and get some feedback from the community. Do the skills look viable? Interesting? Does it add to the Monk class? Could it use some retooling? Would you want to try it out in your own campaign? Or is it hot garbage and I should just not touch grappling ever?
Let me know.
Edit: In response to reasonable critiques below I'm adding the published class below. Once I make revisions I'll edit this again to give new viewers of this thread a fresh look at the revisions without having to scroll through all of the comments.
Monks who follow the Way of the Judoka become very proficient and technical grapplers who specialize in throwing their opponents around the battlefield. A skilled Judoka can even weaponize their own enemies, throwing one foe into another to maximize battlefield control and proficiency. Masters become truly deadly in their art, learning how to land their enemies on the ground in just such a way as to break bones or even shatter the spine.
Martial Arts Grappling
When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you become a technical grappler that focuses on using technique and leverage over brute strength. From now on DEX, rather than STR, is your primary stat for making grappling checks, and you add your martial arts die to your grappling check. You may also spend 1 Ki per size level above your own to ignore the size difference between you and a creature you are grappling for a single grappling check.
Hip Throw
When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you gain the ability to grab and throw an enemy prone in a single action. Upon a successful grappling check you may grapple a target creature within 5 feet of you and throw that creature 5 feet in any direction. Creatures thrown in this way fall prone. You may also choose to grapple and throw a creature as two separate actions. If you throw one creature into another, then the second creature must succeed on a DEX or STR save or fall prone.
If you are grappled by another creature you may use Hip Throw as a counter, provided that you are still standing on the ground. Do this by performing a contested grappling check each turn that you are grappled until you successfully throw your opponent prone.
You must not be holding anything in either hand to perform this technique.
Shoulder Throw
At 6th level, when a creature rolls under your AC with a melee attack roll, you can spend 1 ki point as a reaction to grab the limb used to attack you and throw the attacker prone. The creature's failed attack role constitutes a failed grapple check for the purpose of this throw. Creatures thrown this way are thrown a distance of 5 feet in any direction. If there is another creature within 5 feet of you, you may throw your attacker into them. This secondary enemy must make a successful DEX or STR saving throw or be knocked prone themselves.
You cannot be holding anything in your hands in order to perform this move.
Long Throw
At level 11, you can now throw a grappled creature up to 15 feet instead of 5 feet using either Hip Throw or Shoulder Throw.
Head Drop
At 17th level you gain the ability to throw your enemies with such precision that you can control how they land. When you perform Hip Throw or Shoulder Throw you can spend 5 ki to focus how your thrown enemy moves through the air and have the thrown creature land on their head. Creatures landing this way must make a CON saving throw. If it fails, it is reduced to 0 hit points. If it succeeds, it takes 10d10 damage and is rendered unconscious for 1 minute, and when it wakes up it is stunned for 3 rounds due to having a concussion from the landing.
You should really have copied the sub-class into your first post instead of publishing it, that way you could get feedback before its published. But since it's done, here's the link for everyone else: Way of the Judoka.
First thoughts are that I like the theme, but I feel it's a bit overly complicated, I'll try to break it down:
Martial Arts Grappling: I'd reword this to something like "You may use Acrobatics instead of Athletics when you Grapple or Shove." And I'd probably drop the bit about spending Ki to grapple much larger targets (how exactly is a small gnome grappling a gargantuan dragon)? Maybe replace it with something like "You may ignore the normal size restriction for grappling a target, however successfully grappling a target more than one size class larger than yourself will instead cause you to become grappled by your target, who must succeed on a grapple check to release you unless you release your grip willingly". This may be a little weird to get your head around at first, but it means that your target's speed is halved if it wants to move (as it have to move you with it), it loses the use of a hand, and it needs to waste its action to throw you off, however your own movement is zero as long as you are holding on. It means that dragon that's trying to fly away suddenly can't fly as well thanks to the Monk that's hanging on punching it the entire time.
Hip Throw: Could do with being massively simplified. I'd pare this down to something like "If you have both hands free and successfully Shove a target you may choose to either throw it an additional 5 feet or attempt to Grapple it as part of the same attack". This lets you 10 foot throw, 5 foot throw and prone, or prone and pin as a single attack which is a solid feature, especially since you can immediately followup prone with Extra Attack, Martial Arts or Flurry of Blows with advantage.
Shoulder Throw: I'd maybe tone this down to spending one Ki to Shove as a reaction, but gain both effects on success (push and prone). It definitely still needs the check, as the target already missed you (which a Monk can make easier with Patient Defence) so making it automatic seems like going a bit too far.
Long Throw: This is fine as-is.
Head Drop: Far too strong. It costs 10 Ki points for Way of the Long Death to inflict 20d10 damage halved on a successful CON save (so equivalent to 10d10), and as your class is presented you could literally kill anything for 5 Ki if it doesn't have any Legendary Resistances left (on a class that's already good at draining them). I'd maybe tone this down to something like "When you use a Hip Throw to knock a target prone, you may use your bonus action to force it to take a Constitution saving throw against your Ki save DC or be stunned until the end of your next turn". Basically free Stunning Strike on a Hip Throw?
Overall I like the theming and concept behind it, but I think it's reasonable for the player to accept that this is a fighting style that works best on smaller targets. Being able to force a larger target to move you with it if it can't get you loose means you're always in range to attack, throw out Stunning Strikes etc., so this should still be some consolation, while against smaller, likely humanoid, targets well… chiropractors might just end up becoming real common in the Forgotten Realms. 😂
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I like the theme. Its very martial artsy and overall good flavor.
Martial Arts Grappling
-use dexterity score instead of strength score for grapple AND shove. I would add in shove. or just use dex for athletics insted of strength would also be fine since grapple and shove are under athletics.
Instead of adding martial arts die to grapple checks i would give them expertise in athletics i.e. double proficiency bonus. It would be a bit more consistent and i think get better overall results.
You can already grapple a creature 1 size larger then you so no need to spend any ki in that scenario. Spending one ki to grapple a creature two sizes larger then you? Unfortunately I dont think that works.
Hip throw
You can already shove a creature prone with one attack without having to have them grappled first. Mechanically speaking what is the benefit of having to grapple them first to get them prone when you can just shove them to make them prone? Its the same thing mechanically but using different descriptions to get the same result. Am i missing something? Perhaps if you grappled the creature and threw it prone with one attack while giving the option to MAINTAIN the grappled condition or even adding the restrained condition would provide more benefit. That way you could have the option of pinning them which would add some more judo flavor.
Shoulder throw
I like this. Very monkish. If it costs a ki point then its not likely to get used very much because the benefits of stunning strike and flurry of blows are far better for the same ki cost. i would make it a free reaction, so you can use it more often but give the opponent a dex save against martial arts dc to resist instead of saying they just autofail their grapple. That way you can also save your ki for ss and fob.
Long throw
I like it but maybe not strong enough for level 11. Maybe add in damage when they land? or add in something like "when you hit a target with flury of blows you can also throw the target up to 15 feet and the target lands prone." Grabbing enemies and throwing them all over the place and into other enemies..... That would be cool!
Head drop
Too powerful as written. The unconscious condition is deadly as is without needing to bring them to zero hp or take 10d10 damage.
Unconscious
An unconscious creature is incapacitated (see the condition), can’t move or speak, and is unaware of its surroundings
The creature drops whatever it’s holding and falls prone.
Any Attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature.
Instead - "When you throw an opponent use 1ki to have them make a constitution save or be knocked unconscious for 1 minute" would be plenty powerful. Your party gets attacks with advantage and free critical hits against an unconscious target. That is deadly.
What about adding some sort of submission hold mechanic? Once a creature is grappled he suffers increasing effects every round he does not break free? That would be cool to.
All good comments, especially the one about posting the details here first for critical review prior to publishing. I'll do that with my revisions. Hindsight being 20/20, right?
A lot to unpack and think about too.
Maybe I'll combine all throws into a 3rd level block skill and make a submission hold skill for level 6 or 11.
Let me see if I can unpack this a bit:
Martial Arts Grappling: Add shove to this. Good idea. Will do.
Don't tie it to the martial arts die. Well, I know that it limits the ability to multiclass effectively with this, but I think that tying Martial Arts grappling to the Martial Arts dice not only makes thematic sense, but allows the bonus to scale with the monk's level.
Change the wording of the DEX to say you use Acrobatics instead of athletics. Too easy.
Don't let them spend Ki to grapple gigantic targets. I'm a little iffy on taking that out for two reasons. First is that this subclass is supposed to really revitalize grappling as a fighting style, and the general rule that you can't grapple opponents larger than one size class bigger than you would render this whole skill set moot and useless against larger opponents. I don't want that to happen. At the same time I don't want it to be overpowered, so it makes sense to tie it to Ki points for a temporary boost. What would it look like for a gnome to throw a dragon or an ogre? Imagine Bam Bam manhandling Fred Flintstone, or Hercules throwing a giant monster.
Picture this: You're a mid-teir Human Judo Monk on a ship being attacked by a kraken. You're standing on the deck as a tentacle comes crashing down at the deck. Focusing your Ki, you glow with an inner light as you burn through enough Ki to enable you to move the monster's Ki once you touch it. Just as the tentacle comes down above you, you reach your hands up, and the moment you touch the monster you connect to it, your Ki mingling with its Ki. In an instant it's no longer a separate creature from you, it's a part of you, an extension of you. With a mighty heave you turn and perform the movements of Ippon Seoi Nage. To everyone's shock, awe, and utter surprise (including the kraken) the creature flies up out of the ocean on the starboard side of the ship, sailing in an arch over everyone's heads, neatly snapping the masts and sails of the ship like twigs as it passes overhead, and lands in the ocean on the port side. Your monk collapses to the ground in utter exhaustion as the beast swims away, unsure as to what just happened to it, but unwilling to risk such an experience again.
Maybe I should add levels of exhaustion to it each time you do it?
The second reason I want to keep this is because the mental image of a gnome grabbing a giant's finger and throwing it on to the ground on the opposite side of the player is hilarious and a bit Looney Toones, and that kind of humor always adds to the fun of a game.
What if this also let you use grappling checks as unarmed strikes for the purpose of determining actions?
Hip Throw: Needs to be more mechanically different than shove beyond throwing someone prone in any direction rather than just in a straight line away from you. Fair. What about adding damage to the throws? Since slamming someone on the ground can be painful and knock the breath out of them, and throwing someone onto a rock or the edge of a stair can be downright damaging I'd think that this could be worse than just pushing them down. What about, in addition to omnidirectionality and knocking other enemies prone, it did damage equal to two rolls of the martial arts die at level 3, then three rolls at level 6, four rolls at level 11, and five at level 17? This would reflect the improving refinement of the technique and the monk's increased proficiency with landing an enemy in a damaging way. Apply the same damage rolls to Shoulder Throw?
Shoulder Throw: What if instead of a Ki cost, you roll a grappling check on a failed melee attack roll against you to pull off this effect? I was working off of the 6th level Way of the Drunken Fist skill for this one, but yes it could be refined.
Long Throw: Maybe it's good as written, but would make a better level 6 skill? What if I combined the throws into one block skill labeled "Judo Throws" and added a "Submission Hold" skill for the level 11 skill?
Head Drop:Too overpowered. Okay, fair. I was working off of the level 17 skill "Quivering Palm" as my base, which a lot of people say is OP anyway. What if, instead of instant death, the target rolls for either full 10d10 damage and unconsciousness for 1 minute, or on a successful saving throw they take half damage and are stunned for two rounds? One of the complaints people have about monks is that their damage doesn't scale at higher levels like other classes and their subclasses at these higher levels. I wanted to include a capstone ability that help level that playing filed a bit. I think that dropping someone on their head, which can potentially break the spine and neck, causing high damage and have concussion like effects makes sense in this regard. Either that or the free stunning strike on a Throw?
If you really like the idea of a monk tossing around gargantuan creatures then go for it. It is homebrew after all. There is no size limit to the effects of open hand technique so you could say there is precedent.
By the way your story telling there is quite creative!
I like the idea of giving judo maneuevers at level 3 and having hip and shoulder throw as separate manuevers under that category. Open hand gets manuevers at level three so it makes sense. Could you add a pin maneuver as well? That seems like a judo thing to do. Something like " if you roll a successful grapple check against a prone creature, they are pinned. A pinned creature is restrained. " that way you could hip throw or shove someone and then pin them. Imposing the restrained condition on an opponent can be a strong tactic. It seems like pinning someone and then doing flurry of blows seems sort of judo like. Adding the scaling damage to hip and shoulder throw are good and make those manuevers seem more effective.
Submission hold for level 11 is a good idea.
For quivering palm it takes two rounds to happen. One round to hit the target and a second round to use your action to initiate the effect. And it costs 3ki. So i would follow those guidelines for head drop. Meaning, once you have grappled a creature you can use your "Action" and spend 3ki to do the head drop on your next turn. That way you cant do it every round just like quivering palm. Given that, i think 10d10 damage and unconscious for 1 minute save for half damage and is fine. Even though its not instant death like quivering palm, a creature that is unconscious for 1 minute may as well be dead anyways.
You want this guy to be very successful at grappling and i think the best way to do that is expertise in athletics. Adding Double your proficiency bonus to grapple checks will give you way better results than adding one martial arts die. At level 17 expertise is giving you +12 to grapple checks. A martial arts die will give you an average of 5.5. That is no small difference.
Hi all. I just want to add a bit of flavour and perspective being a nidan judoka IRL who plays D&D 5e.
"Adding Double your proficiency bonus to grapple checks will give you way better results than adding one martial arts die. " I agree. Judo is a lot more about technique to maximize your efforts. Judo gives you a much better chance of being able to grapple someone. Not just bear hugs and grabbing arms/legs/neck but clothing. At a higher level even things in their hands can be used and can result in someone being disarmed during a failed attack.
There is also foot sweeps/tripping at an early stage that can make someone prone and cause damage. It's not inconceivable to have someone stunned after a foot sweep as it's very sudden. Also size difference: a halfling could foot sweep an orc if done right. This takes a lot of training to get right so would not be a lower level thing.
Judoka would also have a very good chance of absorbing fall damage (it's the #1 thing we do) and being able to roll to our feet after falling prone and not restrained.
Pinning opponents is taught at a low level but require you to be also prone and to have your hands occupied. No other striking possible. Submissions can be attempted on a later round.
Much later on, a judoka is taught how to restrain an opponent using their legs (wail away with fists) and can also progress into submissions.
There is also a way to restrain someone in the prone position (face down) while the judoka remains standing. Judoka's hands are in use but can definitely still use legs to boot them.
Higher level judoka also learn how to evade an attack (armed or unarmed), strike with the intention to stun, then pull or throw the target prone and restrain them. For examples, search for kodokan-goshin-jutsu on YouTube.
A mid-level feature could involve extra damage or a reduced DC in throwing any target that moved up to the judoka on the last round. The energy in that movement can be used to assist in throwing the target. Never run at a judoka.
Last thing: please don't call it "Way of the Judoka". Judo already means gentle way*. Kinda like saying ATM machine.
*you don't want to see not-gentle way. "Head Drop" kind of falls into this category. I would not do this unless I had no other choice.
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So, I just made a homebrew subclass and would like a little feedback on it. It's called the "Way of the Judoka".
On paper I think it looks good, and in the echo chamber of my head it seems to revitalize grappling by giving grappling some new features it doesn't have in the base game. Basically, you're grabbing enemies and throwing them into other enemies using Judo throws, or just throwing them prone if there are no other enemies around. If you want to know what those look like (and don't already know) you can do a YouTube search for Judo throws or Olympic Judo.
I haven't had a chance to play test it yet as I'm starting a game from level 1 right now and haven't gotten to level 3 yet. However, I'd like to get out of my echo chamber and get some feedback from the community. Do the skills look viable? Interesting? Does it add to the Monk class? Could it use some retooling? Would you want to try it out in your own campaign? Or is it hot garbage and I should just not touch grappling ever?
Let me know.
Edit: In response to reasonable critiques below I'm adding the published class below. Once I make revisions I'll edit this again to give new viewers of this thread a fresh look at the revisions without having to scroll through all of the comments.
Monks who follow the Way of the Judoka become very proficient and technical grapplers who specialize in throwing their opponents around the battlefield. A skilled Judoka can even weaponize their own enemies, throwing one foe into another to maximize battlefield control and proficiency. Masters become truly deadly in their art, learning how to land their enemies on the ground in just such a way as to break bones or even shatter the spine.
Martial Arts Grappling
When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you become a technical grappler that focuses on using technique and leverage over brute strength. From now on DEX, rather than STR, is your primary stat for making grappling checks, and you add your martial arts die to your grappling check. You may also spend 1 Ki per size level above your own to ignore the size difference between you and a creature you are grappling for a single grappling check.
Hip Throw
When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you gain the ability to grab and throw an enemy prone in a single action. Upon a successful grappling check you may grapple a target creature within 5 feet of you and throw that creature 5 feet in any direction. Creatures thrown in this way fall prone. You may also choose to grapple and throw a creature as two separate actions. If you throw one creature into another, then the second creature must succeed on a DEX or STR save or fall prone.
If you are grappled by another creature you may use Hip Throw as a counter, provided that you are still standing on the ground. Do this by performing a contested grappling check each turn that you are grappled until you successfully throw your opponent prone.
You must not be holding anything in either hand to perform this technique.
Shoulder Throw
At 6th level, when a creature rolls under your AC with a melee attack roll, you can spend 1 ki point as a reaction to grab the limb used to attack you and throw the attacker prone. The creature's failed attack role constitutes a failed grapple check for the purpose of this throw. Creatures thrown this way are thrown a distance of 5 feet in any direction. If there is another creature within 5 feet of you, you may throw your attacker into them. This secondary enemy must make a successful DEX or STR saving throw or be knocked prone themselves.
You cannot be holding anything in your hands in order to perform this move.
Long Throw
At level 11, you can now throw a grappled creature up to 15 feet instead of 5 feet using either Hip Throw or Shoulder Throw.
Head Drop
At 17th level you gain the ability to throw your enemies with such precision that you can control how they land. When you perform Hip Throw or Shoulder Throw you can spend 5 ki to focus how your thrown enemy moves through the air and have the thrown creature land on their head. Creatures landing this way must make a CON saving throw. If it fails, it is reduced to 0 hit points. If it succeeds, it takes 10d10 damage and is rendered unconscious for 1 minute, and when it wakes up it is stunned for 3 rounds due to having a concussion from the landing.
Maybe just copy the monk into your post. I dont think too many people will go looking for it.
You should really have copied the sub-class into your first post instead of publishing it, that way you could get feedback before its published. But since it's done, here's the link for everyone else: Way of the Judoka.
First thoughts are that I like the theme, but I feel it's a bit overly complicated, I'll try to break it down:
Overall I like the theming and concept behind it, but I think it's reasonable for the player to accept that this is a fighting style that works best on smaller targets. Being able to force a larger target to move you with it if it can't get you loose means you're always in range to attack, throw out Stunning Strikes etc., so this should still be some consolation, while against smaller, likely humanoid, targets well… chiropractors might just end up becoming real common in the Forgotten Realms. 😂
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I like the theme. Its very martial artsy and overall good flavor.
Martial Arts Grappling
-use dexterity score instead of strength score for grapple AND shove. I would add in shove. or just use dex for athletics insted of strength would also be fine since grapple and shove are under athletics.
Instead of adding martial arts die to grapple checks i would give them expertise in athletics i.e. double proficiency bonus. It would be a bit more consistent and i think get better overall results.
You can already grapple a creature 1 size larger then you so no need to spend any ki in that scenario. Spending one ki to grapple a creature two sizes larger then you? Unfortunately I dont think that works.
Hip throw
You can already shove a creature prone with one attack without having to have them grappled first. Mechanically speaking what is the benefit of having to grapple them first to get them prone when you can just shove them to make them prone? Its the same thing mechanically but using different descriptions to get the same result. Am i missing something? Perhaps if you grappled the creature and threw it prone with one attack while giving the option to MAINTAIN the grappled condition or even adding the restrained condition would provide more benefit. That way you could have the option of pinning them which would add some more judo flavor.
Shoulder throw
I like this. Very monkish. If it costs a ki point then its not likely to get used very much because the benefits of stunning strike and flurry of blows are far better for the same ki cost. i would make it a free reaction, so you can use it more often but give the opponent a dex save against martial arts dc to resist instead of saying they just autofail their grapple. That way you can also save your ki for ss and fob.
Long throw
I like it but maybe not strong enough for level 11. Maybe add in damage when they land? or add in something like "when you hit a target with flury of blows you can also throw the target up to 15 feet and the target lands prone." Grabbing enemies and throwing them all over the place and into other enemies..... That would be cool!
Head drop
Too powerful as written. The unconscious condition is deadly as is without needing to bring them to zero hp or take 10d10 damage.
Unconscious
Instead - "When you throw an opponent use 1ki to have them make a constitution save or be knocked unconscious for 1 minute" would be plenty powerful. Your party gets attacks with advantage and free critical hits against an unconscious target. That is deadly.
What about adding some sort of submission hold mechanic? Once a creature is grappled he suffers increasing effects every round he does not break free? That would be cool to.
All good comments, especially the one about posting the details here first for critical review prior to publishing. I'll do that with my revisions. Hindsight being 20/20, right?
A lot to unpack and think about too.
Maybe I'll combine all throws into a 3rd level block skill and make a submission hold skill for level 6 or 11.
Let me see if I can unpack this a bit:
Martial Arts Grappling: Add shove to this. Good idea. Will do.
Don't tie it to the martial arts die. Well, I know that it limits the ability to multiclass effectively with this, but I think that tying Martial Arts grappling to the Martial Arts dice not only makes thematic sense, but allows the bonus to scale with the monk's level.
Change the wording of the DEX to say you use Acrobatics instead of athletics. Too easy.
Don't let them spend Ki to grapple gigantic targets. I'm a little iffy on taking that out for two reasons. First is that this subclass is supposed to really revitalize grappling as a fighting style, and the general rule that you can't grapple opponents larger than one size class bigger than you would render this whole skill set moot and useless against larger opponents. I don't want that to happen. At the same time I don't want it to be overpowered, so it makes sense to tie it to Ki points for a temporary boost. What would it look like for a gnome to throw a dragon or an ogre? Imagine Bam Bam manhandling Fred Flintstone, or Hercules throwing a giant monster.
Picture this: You're a mid-teir Human Judo Monk on a ship being attacked by a kraken. You're standing on the deck as a tentacle comes crashing down at the deck. Focusing your Ki, you glow with an inner light as you burn through enough Ki to enable you to move the monster's Ki once you touch it. Just as the tentacle comes down above you, you reach your hands up, and the moment you touch the monster you connect to it, your Ki mingling with its Ki. In an instant it's no longer a separate creature from you, it's a part of you, an extension of you. With a mighty heave you turn and perform the movements of Ippon Seoi Nage. To everyone's shock, awe, and utter surprise (including the kraken) the creature flies up out of the ocean on the starboard side of the ship, sailing in an arch over everyone's heads, neatly snapping the masts and sails of the ship like twigs as it passes overhead, and lands in the ocean on the port side. Your monk collapses to the ground in utter exhaustion as the beast swims away, unsure as to what just happened to it, but unwilling to risk such an experience again.
Maybe I should add levels of exhaustion to it each time you do it?
The second reason I want to keep this is because the mental image of a gnome grabbing a giant's finger and throwing it on to the ground on the opposite side of the player is hilarious and a bit Looney Toones, and that kind of humor always adds to the fun of a game.
What if this also let you use grappling checks as unarmed strikes for the purpose of determining actions?
Hip Throw: Needs to be more mechanically different than shove beyond throwing someone prone in any direction rather than just in a straight line away from you. Fair. What about adding damage to the throws? Since slamming someone on the ground can be painful and knock the breath out of them, and throwing someone onto a rock or the edge of a stair can be downright damaging I'd think that this could be worse than just pushing them down. What about, in addition to omnidirectionality and knocking other enemies prone, it did damage equal to two rolls of the martial arts die at level 3, then three rolls at level 6, four rolls at level 11, and five at level 17? This would reflect the improving refinement of the technique and the monk's increased proficiency with landing an enemy in a damaging way. Apply the same damage rolls to Shoulder Throw?
Shoulder Throw: What if instead of a Ki cost, you roll a grappling check on a failed melee attack roll against you to pull off this effect? I was working off of the 6th level Way of the Drunken Fist skill for this one, but yes it could be refined.
Long Throw: Maybe it's good as written, but would make a better level 6 skill? What if I combined the throws into one block skill labeled "Judo Throws" and added a "Submission Hold" skill for the level 11 skill?
Head Drop:Too overpowered. Okay, fair. I was working off of the level 17 skill "Quivering Palm" as my base, which a lot of people say is OP anyway. What if, instead of instant death, the target rolls for either full 10d10 damage and unconsciousness for 1 minute, or on a successful saving throw they take half damage and are stunned for two rounds? One of the complaints people have about monks is that their damage doesn't scale at higher levels like other classes and their subclasses at these higher levels. I wanted to include a capstone ability that help level that playing filed a bit. I think that dropping someone on their head, which can potentially break the spine and neck, causing high damage and have concussion like effects makes sense in this regard. Either that or the free stunning strike on a Throw?
If you really like the idea of a monk tossing around gargantuan creatures then go for it. It is homebrew after all. There is no size limit to the effects of open hand technique so you could say there is precedent.
By the way your story telling there is quite creative!
I like the idea of giving judo maneuevers at level 3 and having hip and shoulder throw as separate manuevers under that category. Open hand gets manuevers at level three so it makes sense. Could you add a pin maneuver as well? That seems like a judo thing to do. Something like " if you roll a successful grapple check against a prone creature, they are pinned. A pinned creature is restrained. " that way you could hip throw or shove someone and then pin them. Imposing the restrained condition on an opponent can be a strong tactic. It seems like pinning someone and then doing flurry of blows seems sort of judo like. Adding the scaling damage to hip and shoulder throw are good and make those manuevers seem more effective.
Submission hold for level 11 is a good idea.
For quivering palm it takes two rounds to happen. One round to hit the target and a second round to use your action to initiate the effect. And it costs 3ki. So i would follow those guidelines for head drop. Meaning, once you have grappled a creature you can use your "Action" and spend 3ki to do the head drop on your next turn. That way you cant do it every round just like quivering palm. Given that, i think 10d10 damage and unconscious for 1 minute save for half damage and is fine. Even though its not instant death like quivering palm, a creature that is unconscious for 1 minute may as well be dead anyways.
You want this guy to be very successful at grappling and i think the best way to do that is expertise in athletics. Adding Double your proficiency bonus to grapple checks will give you way better results than adding one martial arts die. At level 17 expertise is giving you +12 to grapple checks. A martial arts die will give you an average of 5.5. That is no small difference.
Good luck.
Hi all. I just want to add a bit of flavour and perspective being a nidan judoka IRL who plays D&D 5e.
"Adding Double your proficiency bonus to grapple checks will give you way better results than adding one martial arts die. " I agree. Judo is a lot more about technique to maximize your efforts. Judo gives you a much better chance of being able to grapple someone. Not just bear hugs and grabbing arms/legs/neck but clothing. At a higher level even things in their hands can be used and can result in someone being disarmed during a failed attack.
There is also foot sweeps/tripping at an early stage that can make someone prone and cause damage. It's not inconceivable to have someone stunned after a foot sweep as it's very sudden. Also size difference: a halfling could foot sweep an orc if done right. This takes a lot of training to get right so would not be a lower level thing.
Judoka would also have a very good chance of absorbing fall damage (it's the #1 thing we do) and being able to roll to our feet after falling prone and not restrained.
Pinning opponents is taught at a low level but require you to be also prone and to have your hands occupied. No other striking possible. Submissions can be attempted on a later round.
Much later on, a judoka is taught how to restrain an opponent using their legs (wail away with fists) and can also progress into submissions.
There is also a way to restrain someone in the prone position (face down) while the judoka remains standing. Judoka's hands are in use but can definitely still use legs to boot them.
Higher level judoka also learn how to evade an attack (armed or unarmed), strike with the intention to stun, then pull or throw the target prone and restrain them. For examples, search for kodokan-goshin-jutsu on YouTube.
A mid-level feature could involve extra damage or a reduced DC in throwing any target that moved up to the judoka on the last round. The energy in that movement can be used to assist in throwing the target. Never run at a judoka.
Last thing: please don't call it "Way of the Judoka". Judo already means gentle way*. Kinda like saying ATM machine.
*you don't want to see not-gentle way. "Head Drop" kind of falls into this category. I would not do this unless I had no other choice.