If a Monk is wielding a spear, and has the Polearm Master feat, should the damage scaling for "Monk Weapons" change the feat from an additional 1D4 damage on a bonus action to, lets say, 1D8 at Monk level 5 (2024 Rules)?
If a Monk is wielding a spear, and has the Polearm Master feat, should the damage scaling for "Monk Weapons" change the feat from an additional 1D4 damage on a bonus action to, lets say, 1D8 at Monk level 5 (2024 Rules)?
This is how I would interpret it anyway.
It's not super clear how that interaction is supposed to work, but my gut instinct is no, because of the general principle that "specific beats general". The feat is a specific rule telling you what the damage die for that specific attack is, while the Monk's Martial Arts feature is a more general rule that applies to lots of different weapons and attacks.
Well, since Shillelagh is a magical effect on the weapon that lasts without concentration until the spell expires, and argument can be reasonably made that it should carry over into the feat as well.
Does using the Polearm Master feat to use the the butt-end of of a +2 spear grant a +2 to hit and damage to the bonus attack granted......I would say yes, even though the rules do not say it anywhere. It becomes even more complicated if that magic weapon has additional damage die from special affects. Does a Holy Avenger Glaive grant it's extra damage to a butt-end attack?
Some of these interactions should have been though out better in the rules. Given the bonus damage stacking that can occur when two-weapon fighting, especially when combined with spell effects such as Hunter's Mark/or Hex, I don't think the game is unbalanced by allowing class or spell features to carry over into a feat like Polearm Master.
Per Sage Advice official ruling Polearm Master opposite end of the weapon always uses a d4 for damage rather than the weapon’s normal damage die
This includes Martial Art ability to roll 1d6 in place of the normal damage of your Monk weapons.
If I cast shillelagh on my quarterstaff and have the Polearm Master feat, does the bonus attack use a d4 or a d8 for damage?
The benefit from Polearm Master applies to the opposite end of the weapon and always uses a d4 for damage rather than the weapon’s normal damage die. This is true for a quarterstaff enhanced with shillelagh just as it is for a normal one.
Per Sage Advice official ruling Polearm Master opposite end of the weapon always uses a d4 for damage rather than the weapon’s normal damage die
This includes Martial Art ability to roll 1d6 in place of the normal damage of your Monk weapons.
If I cast shillelagh on my quarterstaff and have the Polearm Master feat, does the bonus attack use a d4 or a d8 for damage?
The benefit from Polearm Master applies to the opposite end of the weapon and always uses a d4 for damage rather than the weapon’s normal damage die. This is true for a quarterstaff enhanced with shillelagh just as it is for a normal one.
By that reasoning an attack and damage bonus on a magic quarterstaff only applies to one end of the weapon. [Redacted]
Per Sage Advice official ruling Polearm Master opposite end of the weapon always uses a d4 for damage rather than the weapon’s normal damage die
This includes Martial Art ability to roll 1d6 in place of the normal damage of your Monk weapons.
If I cast shillelagh on my quarterstaff and have the Polearm Master feat, does the bonus attack use a d4 or a d8 for damage?
The benefit from Polearm Master applies to the opposite end of the weapon and always uses a d4 for damage rather than the weapon’s normal damage die. This is true for a quarterstaff enhanced with shillelagh just as it is for a normal one.
Lol. By that reasoning an attack and damage bonus on a magic quarterstaff only applies to one end of the weapon.
That doesn't follow in the slightest.
Your damage roll has multiple parts. At the minimum, the damage die, the weapon's bonus, and your stat bonus. Polearm Master changes the die. It says nothing about the bonuses, so they remain untouched.
Of course it follows....shillelagh enhances a weapon.....nowhere does it say it enhances only one end of it.
To imply that a +2 spear's attack and damage roles applies to the whole weapon, regardless of the end used, and that the same wouldn't apply to an item enhanced with shillelagh is just silly.
In no way does increasing the Polearm Master 1d4 damage die higher unbalance the game, considering all the benefits a character using two-weapon fighting and the Dual Wielder feat can get stacked up.
Of course it follows....shillelagh enhances a weapon.....nowhere does it say it enhances only one end of it.
To imply that a +2 spear's attack and damage roles applies to the whole weapon, regardless of the end used, and that the same wouldn't apply to an item enhanced with shillelagh is just silly.
In no way does increasing the Polearm Master 1d4 damage die higher unbalance the game, considering all the benefits a character using two-weapon fighting and the Dual Wielder feat can get stacked up.
Nobody said it unbalances the game. Your original question was "does it work this way?"
The spell and the feat both change the damage die used for the weapon, one in general and one for a specific extra attack that it grants. A ruling about which one takes precedence is a ruling about exactly that, and has nothing to say about damage bonuses or the like.
It doesn't unbalance the game and you're free to interpret it differently if you want, we're just giving our own interpretations on this particular runing.
If you want your monk to do more damage with its bonus action, make an unarmed strike (kick, knee, headbutt, elbow, whatever). But if you use the bonus action to strike with the butt end of the weapon using Polearm Master, then it deals d4.
The feat allows someone using a 2 handed weapon (spear, polearm, etc.) to get a little extra damage using their bonus action,. As a monk, it makes more sense to use an unarmed strike with your bonus action, but if you choose to use the butt end of the weapon using the feat, then d4 is all you get.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
If a Monk is wielding a spear, and has the Polearm Master feat, should the damage scaling for "Monk Weapons" change the feat from an additional 1D4 damage on a bonus action to, lets say, 1D8 at Monk level 5 (2024 Rules)?
This is how I would interpret it anyway.
I would go with no. The d4 is a bonus action damage that is specifically meant to be lower than the normal damages for the weapon. I suppose if you want your Martial die damage as a bonus action, then use an unarmed attack or a two weapon attack.
The 1D4 for the 'but' end of the weapon Specific to feat. "a the weapon’s damage die for this attack isa d4." This is a Bonus action not an action - Attack-Action
In this case, could the D4 butt strike still be changed to force damage? Can you still use your wisdom (or whatever) to make the attack roll?
If you have a way to do force with a monk weapon (Empowered strikes only works on unarmed strikes) I would think so. Same for the stat you want to use for attack and damage.
Sorry, I meant (but completely failed to mention) if using the shillelagh cantrip with a quarterstaff and polearm master. If we accept that the butt strike is always a d4, can we still change it to force damage and use wisdom modifier to attack? Or is it considered to just be a completely different weapon not subject to other rules that would affect a quarterstaff?
Sorry, I meant (but completely failed to mention) if using the shillelagh cantrip with a quarterstaff and polearm master. If we accept that the butt strike is always a d4, can we still change it to force damage and use wisdom modifier to attack? Or is it considered to just be a completely different weapon not subject to other rules that would affect a quarterstaff?
PAM doesn’t require STR for attack so DEX or WIS from Shillelagh can be used. And I would also think force damage can be used as well. The butt end doing bludgeoning damage is the general rule since it is the haft/shaft/pole, whatever you call it, of the weapon. Shillelagh is a specific rule that would override the damage type if you choose.
If a Monk is wielding a spear, and has the Polearm Master feat, should the damage scaling for "Monk Weapons" change the feat from an additional 1D4 damage on a bonus action to, lets say, 1D8 at Monk level 5 (2024 Rules)?
This is how I would interpret it anyway.
I would probably say it would match your martial arts die, mainly because it's a bonus action. You can use an unarmed strike as a bonus action, and they both do bludgeoning damage, so it won't really matter unless the spear is magic
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm just your everyday dungeon master. Ignore that jar full of souls. And those bones in the corner are just props, don't worry. I'm definitely NOT a lich. Definitely.
Yes, I like beholders. Yes, I curated an exquisite personality for commoner #2864. Yes, my catchphrase is "are you sure?"
If a Monk is wielding a spear, and has the Polearm Master feat, should the damage scaling for "Monk Weapons" change the feat from an additional 1D4 damage on a bonus action to, lets say, 1D8 at Monk level 5 (2024 Rules)?
This is how I would interpret it anyway.
It's not super clear how that interaction is supposed to work, but my gut instinct is no, because of the general principle that "specific beats general". The feat is a specific rule telling you what the damage die for that specific attack is, while the Monk's Martial Arts feature is a more general rule that applies to lots of different weapons and attacks.
pronouns: he/she/they
I don't see it that way at all. The Monk class is already granting an exception to the normal rule which would carry across into the feat.
Fair enough. Like I said, I don't think it's very clear and it's the sort of thing that's up to the DM to resolve.
pronouns: he/she/they
Same thing comes up with Shillelagh and Quarterstaff with PAM. I don’t think there is a definitive answer on either, or at least official one.
I would be of the opinion that it stays a d4
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Well, since Shillelagh is a magical effect on the weapon that lasts without concentration until the spell expires, and argument can be reasonably made that it should carry over into the feat as well.
Does using the Polearm Master feat to use the the butt-end of of a +2 spear grant a +2 to hit and damage to the bonus attack granted......I would say yes, even though the rules do not say it anywhere. It becomes even more complicated if that magic weapon has additional damage die from special affects. Does a Holy Avenger Glaive grant it's extra damage to a butt-end attack?
Some of these interactions should have been though out better in the rules. Given the bonus damage stacking that can occur when two-weapon fighting, especially when combined with spell effects such as Hunter's Mark/or Hex, I don't think the game is unbalanced by allowing class or spell features to carry over into a feat like Polearm Master.
Per Sage Advice official ruling Polearm Master opposite end of the weapon always uses a d4 for damage rather than the weapon’s normal damage die
This includes Martial Art ability to roll 1d6 in place of the normal damage of your Monk weapons.
By that reasoning an attack and damage bonus on a magic quarterstaff only applies to one end of the weapon. [Redacted]
That doesn't follow in the slightest.
Your damage roll has multiple parts. At the minimum, the damage die, the weapon's bonus, and your stat bonus. Polearm Master changes the die. It says nothing about the bonuses, so they remain untouched.
Of course it follows....shillelagh enhances a weapon.....nowhere does it say it enhances only one end of it.
To imply that a +2 spear's attack and damage roles applies to the whole weapon, regardless of the end used, and that the same wouldn't apply to an item enhanced with shillelagh is just silly.
In no way does increasing the Polearm Master 1d4 damage die higher unbalance the game, considering all the benefits a character using two-weapon fighting and the Dual Wielder feat can get stacked up.
Nobody said it unbalances the game. Your original question was "does it work this way?"
The spell and the feat both change the damage die used for the weapon, one in general and one for a specific extra attack that it grants. A ruling about which one takes precedence is a ruling about exactly that, and has nothing to say about damage bonuses or the like.
It doesn't unbalance the game and you're free to interpret it differently if you want, we're just giving our own interpretations on this particular runing.
If you want your monk to do more damage with its bonus action, make an unarmed strike (kick, knee, headbutt, elbow, whatever). But if you use the bonus action to strike with the butt end of the weapon using Polearm Master, then it deals d4.
The feat allows someone using a 2 handed weapon (spear, polearm, etc.) to get a little extra damage using their bonus action,. As a monk, it makes more sense to use an unarmed strike with your bonus action, but if you choose to use the butt end of the weapon using the feat, then d4 is all you get.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
I would go with no. The d4 is a bonus action damage that is specifically meant to be lower than the normal damages for the weapon. I suppose if you want your Martial die damage as a bonus action, then use an unarmed attack or a two weapon attack.
The 1D4 for the 'but' end of the weapon Specific to feat. "a the weapon’s damage die for this attack is a d4." This is a Bonus action not an action - Attack-Action
In this case, could the D4 butt strike still be changed to force damage? Can you still use your wisdom (or whatever) to make the attack roll?
If you have a way to do force with a monk weapon (Empowered strikes only works on unarmed strikes) I would think so. Same for the stat you want to use for attack and damage.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Sorry, I meant (but completely failed to mention) if using the shillelagh cantrip with a quarterstaff and polearm master. If we accept that the butt strike is always a d4, can we still change it to force damage and use wisdom modifier to attack? Or is it considered to just be a completely different weapon not subject to other rules that would affect a quarterstaff?
PAM doesn’t require STR for attack so DEX or WIS from Shillelagh can be used. And I would also think force damage can be used as well. The butt end doing bludgeoning damage is the general rule since it is the haft/shaft/pole, whatever you call it, of the weapon. Shillelagh is a specific rule that would override the damage type if you choose.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I would probably say it would match your martial arts die, mainly because it's a bonus action. You can use an unarmed strike as a bonus action, and they both do bludgeoning damage, so it won't really matter unless the spear is magic
I'm just your everyday dungeon master. Ignore that jar full of souls. And those bones in the corner are just props, don't worry. I'm definitely NOT a lich. Definitely.
Yes, I like beholders. Yes, I curated an exquisite personality for commoner #2864. Yes, my catchphrase is "are you sure?"
.-. .- -. -.. --- -- / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . .-.-.-