I've looked online, and a lot of people are saying that they make the best rangers, and I guess I'm not seeing them as particularly strong.
The +2 Dexterity is obviously biggest draw, but they share that with Elves as standard.
+1 Wisdom is also a useful boon.
The weapon proficiency is completely redundant though.
Fleet of Foot adds 5ft to speed, but that seems somewhat situational. If you're at melee distance, you can use it to move out of range? Provokes an attack of opportunity unless you use your action to disengage, hopes they don't have ranged attacks and assumes that the combat area is pretty large. Now I'm writing it this bit better (I forgot this ability when I wrote this post), but still, am I underestimating the power of that extra 5ft?
Maybe my understanding of Mask of the Wild may well be wrong, but it only seems applicable outside of combat and very highly situational. You'd have to find an ambush site and hope that your target happens to come across it...so you can get an extra round via surprise. Very useful if you can pull it off, but I don't think that would happen very much at all. I'd love to be wrong because that would really warm me up to the Wood Elf, so please correct me if I am.
Operating under the assumption that I'm not wrong about the previous...
It just seems like while it's a reasonable choice, it's not necessarily as clear a choice as it would appear. For example, I could trade my +1 Wis for Int instead (not as good but still a pretty nice bonus) and get a free cantrip as a High Elf. If I'm not worried about sunlight (rangers work best at night anyway), then a Drow would trade it for Charisma and a bunch of magic plus a rapier proficiency, although Drow are less accepted at DM tables.
Alternatively, I could trade one of the Dex and dark vision (which does suck) for an increase in the other four abilities as a human or for a feat and an additional skill proficiency as a variant human.
Half Elf would give me +2 Charisma, two proficiencies and languages for the +1 Dex.
I'm assuming that I'm wrong, but I just don't really see it. Especially as the main advantage is the Dex, but if you choose the right fighting styles and as long as your score isn't too low, it isn't overly necessary. Maybe the 5ft speed is what makes it, I don't know. What am I getting wrong?
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I think many people don’t fully understand or appreciate the wood elf’s mask of the wild for the same reason they don’t for the lightfoot halfling’s naturally stealthy and base ranger’s hide in plain sight. Specifically, all three abilities circumvent the normal hiding rules in regards to hiding while being seen or in visual line of sight.
I think many people don’t fully understand or appreciate the wood elf’s mask of the wild for the same reason they don’t for the lightfoot halfling’s naturally stealthy and base ranger’s hide in plain sight. Specifically, all three abilities circumvent the normal hiding rules in regards to hiding while being seen or in visual line of sight.
Stealth, LOS, perception, etc... they all tend to be misunderstood unforunately. 5e went a simple route for it and mostly had the decision to let DM do what they wanted with it.
In practice it makes stuff like Mask of the Wild more or less valuable depending on how you play it.
I think many people don’t fully understand or appreciate the wood elf’s mask of the wild for the same reason they don’t for the lightfoot halfling’s naturally stealthy and base ranger’s hide in plain sight. Specifically, all three abilities circumvent the normal hiding rules in regards to hiding while being seen or in visual line of sight.
Are you saying that you don't have to break LoS?
It doesn't mention not having to break LoS in the description, which would be an important point. The way it is written suggests that the Wood Elf can hide there as if it's concealment. However, concealment doesn't allow you to hide if the creature knows you're there.
The "Hide in Plain Sight" makes no sense in your interpretation. You're going to spend a minute (ten turns) applying camouflage in the middle of a battle, then stand against a wall, while the enemy watches, and he's not going to know where you are anymore? It only makes sense if you're doing it ahead of time, and the battle starts when you're already camouflaged and they never were aware of where you were.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
They are one of the better options. The movement bonus is nice, and the ability scores are great. Mask of the wild isn't just the skulker feat as a racial feature, but its not terrible. But the meditation sleep and fey ancestry are really good for a ranger thematically too.
Im not sure I could credit a race with strictly being better for the Ranger.
Halflings cannot use long bows, lack dark vision, but do have their luck and good ability scores
Variant humans can get the sharpshooter feat right off, but also lack darkvision
Lizard folk have natural armor, dark vision, and melee options, but do not get a dex ability score bonus
Forest gnomes have some neat additional things, but not the ideal ability scores, and cannot use long bows
There isn't really a race that perfectly screams "Ranger" quite as much as wood elf.
If we look in the environment section of the PHB, specifically on light obscurement, https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/adventuring#VisionandLight, it doesn't say at all that creatures can't see things in light obscurement, only that they have disadvantage on visual perception checks.
All three abilities give exceptions to these rules. The general rules. These exceptions are to the general rules.
The halfling ability says "You can attempt to hide even when you are obscured only by a creature that is at least one size larger than you." Meaning you take the normal hiding rules and add this onto them for these types of creatures, lightfoot halfling. Are you behind a medium creature? You can make a stealth check.
The wood elf ability, https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/races#WoodElf, "You can attempt to hide even when you are only lightly obscured by foliage, heavy rain, falling snow, mist, and other natural phenomena." Meaning you can you take the normal hiding rules and add this onto them for these types of creatures. Are you in overgrown brush, walking around in a heavy rain, or its twilight out? You can make a stealth check.
The level 10 ranger ability, https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/classes#HideinPlainSight, says "Once you are camouflaged in this way, you can try to hide by pressing yourself up against a solid surface, such as a tree or wall, that is at least as tall and wide as you are." Meaning you add this on top of the normal hiding rules. (There are about 12 different interpretations of how the HiPS ability works.) Have you applied your camouflage? Then you can make a stealth check, with a +10 bonus to the roll, simply by pressing yourself up against a wall or tree as wide and tall as you, or by laying flat on the ground.
All three of these abilities offer exceptional ways to bypass these general rules for line of sight and hiding with specific exceptions to these rules.
Wood Elf Ranger works great and is certainly a popular choice.
As for Mask of the Wild, it's exceptional to the normal Stealth rules. There's a Sage Advice on it:
Do the lightfoot halfling and wood elf hiding racial traits allow them to hide while observed? The lightfoot halfling and wood elf traits—Naturally Stealthy and Mask of the Wild—do allow members of those subraces to try to hide in their special circumstances even when observers are nearby. Normally, you can’t hide from someone if you’re in full view. A lightfoot halfling, though, can try to vanish behind a creature that is at least one size larger, and a wood elf can try to hide simply by being in heavy rain, mist, falling snow, foliage, or similar natural phenomena. It’s as if nature itself cloaks a wood elf from prying eyes—even eyes staring right at the elf! Both subraces are capable of hiding in situations when most other creatures can’t, but neither subrace’s hiding attempt is assured of success; a Dexterity (Stealth) check is required as normal, and an observant foe might later spot a hidden halfling or elf: “I see you behind that guard, you tricksy halfling!”
In a short campaign a while back I played a stout halfling gloomstalker ranger. I found that race to be a great fit for the class. Bonuses to Dex + Con. You can move through another creature's space. You can reroll natural 1's. And you get advntange and resistance against poison.
Sure, wood elves have better movement speed, and Mask of the Wild could be helpful. And they get darkvision, which halflings don't get, but gloomstalkers of any race get free darkvision at level 3.
So they're both great options. But if I ever get a chance, I'd like to play that halfling ranger some more, as that campaign got cut short back when the pandemic quarantine first began in March of 2020.
As a very general point- even if one selects the Wood Elf, a very fine choice amongst many for a ranger character, the whole experience is still heavily weighed down by the PHB core class features as written for Ranger. No fewer than 4 of the core class features (Fav Enemy, Nat Explorer, Primeval Awareness, and (certainly) Hide in Plain Sight) are not only deeply flawed from a game mechanic perspective - placing undue pressure on everyone else at the table especially the DM to cater to the ranger player to make his or her character ‘work’, it is also just super lacking in ‘fun’ for many of us. (Please don’t post saying “I love the PHB ranger and have more fun than a barrel full of kobolds playing it- note that I said ‘for many us’, which is empirically true).
If my lovely gaming table was not so terrified of using any non-canon rules I would have replaced long ago the 5e PHB ranger core class with something drawn from earlier editions, Pathfinder, or other games like Dungeon World. As written I just deplore it, which is a shame because 1) ranger is my favourite archetypal fantasy character type, and 2) IMO WotC gets just about every single other character class right. This makes the perceived failures with Ranger so much harder to take.
A lot of these shortcomings are of course addressed pretty well with Tasha’s, except of course for Favored Foe which is still very underwhelming.
As a very general point- even if one selects the Wood Elf, a very fine choice amongst many for a ranger character, the whole experience is still heavily weighed down by the PHB core class features as written for Ranger. No fewer than 4 of the core class features (Fav Enemy, Nat Explorer, Primeval Awareness, and (certainly) Hide in Plain Sight) are not only deeply flawed from a game mechanic perspective - placing undue pressure on everyone else at the table especially the DM to cater to the ranger player to make his or her character ‘work’, it is also just super lacking in ‘fun’ for many of us. (Please don’t post saying “I love the PHB ranger and have more fun than a barrel full of kobolds playing it- note that I said ‘for many us’, which is empirically true).
If my lovely gaming table was not so terrified of using any non-canon rules I would have replaced long ago the 5e PHB ranger core class with something drawn from earlier editions, Pathfinder, or other games like Dungeon World. As written I just deplore it, which is a shame because 1) ranger is my favourite archetypal fantasy character type, and 2) IMO WotC gets just about every single other character class right. This makes the perceived failures with Ranger so much harder to take.
A lot of these shortcomings are of course addressed pretty well with Tasha’s, except of course for Favored Foe which is still very underwhelming.
Bring on 5.5!
I have to say it. Many of us use and enjoy the abilities of the PHB core ranger. They work well, are effective, and fun to use. The abilities don’t catch some folks and tables I hear. But that is more of a play style thing.
I think many people don’t fully understand or appreciate the wood elf’s mask of the wild for the same reason they don’t for the lightfoot halfling’s naturally stealthy and base ranger’s hide in plain sight. Specifically, all three abilities circumvent the normal hiding rules in regards to hiding while being seen or in visual line of sight.
Are you saying that you don't have to break LoS?
It doesn't mention not having to break LoS in the description, which would be an important point. The way it is written suggests that the Wood Elf can hide there as if it's concealment. However, concealment doesn't allow you to hide if the creature knows you're there.
The "Hide in Plain Sight" makes no sense in your interpretation. You're going to spend a minute (ten turns) applying camouflage in the middle of a battle, then stand against a wall, while the enemy watches, and he's not going to know where you are anymore? It only makes sense if you're doing it ahead of time, and the battle starts when you're already camouflaged and they never were aware of where you were.
It's completely possible to be hidden from someone who knows where you are. For example, stand behind a door and shout through it "I am behind this door!". Someone on the other side knows where you are, but can't see you.
A couple of comments from the peanut gallery 😁 1) It looks to me like WOtC actually tries fairly hard for a balance of sorts - no one race screams RANGER (or monk/barbarian/etc) but several are probably somewhat better than others for any given class. So you are not going to get a “BEST RACE FOR X” agreement across the board ( or for that matter a “worst race for”). 2) Hide in plain sight is actually a better ability than we typically give it credit for. Yes you have to spend a minute getting “dressed up” but once that is done you can hide with that +10. Notice the wording - once done NOT immediately after doing so. Think of the ranger as a sniper or a SEAL team member (etc) getting made up before going out on a mission, they spend considerably more than 1 minute getting ghillie suits, cammoflage paints etc on and then - later in the mission - when they need to they hide quickly and easily. Sometimes we need to think about what is NOT said as much as what is said. The ranger could camo up as they start prepping for the day and then use HIPS as needed during the day. They don’t have to camo up right before they hide. 3) personally I don’t find the PHB ranger deeply flawed - I would like to see them get more favored enemies and terrains (+1 each at every 5th level) or able to switch them out after experience with a new one (switch at next level) but I can live with them as they are and the DMs I’m playing with allow Tasha’s so I can switch things out when I want as well.
I generally prefer other races. Wood elf is strong imo, but there are better picks.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
A couple of comments from the peanut gallery 😁 1) It looks to me like WOtC actually tries fairly hard for a balance of sorts - no one race screams RANGER (or monk/barbarian/etc) but several are probably somewhat better than others for any given class. So you are not going to get a “BEST RACE FOR X” agreement across the board ( or for that matter a “worst race for”). 2) Hide in plain sight is actually a better ability than we typically give it credit for. Yes you have to spend a minute getting “dressed up” but once that is done you can hide with that +10. Notice the wording - once done NOT immediately after doing so. Think of the ranger as a sniper or a SEAL team member (etc) getting made up before going out on a mission, they spend considerably more than 1 minute getting ghillie suits, cammoflage paints etc on and then - later in the mission - when they need to they hide quickly and easily. Sometimes we need to think about what is NOT said as much as what is said. The ranger could camo up as they start prepping for the day and then use HIPS as needed during the day. They don’t have to camo up right before they hide. 3) personally I don’t find the PHB ranger deeply flawed - I would like to see them get more favored enemies and terrains (+1 each at every 5th level) or able to switch them out after experience with a new one (switch at next level) but I can live with them as they are and the DMs I’m playing with allow Tasha’s so I can switch things out when I want as well.
You and I read, interpret, and use hide in plain sight in exactly the same way! It is a very fun and effective ability when used in the way it is written.
A couple of comments from the peanut gallery 😁 1) It looks to me like WOtC actually tries fairly hard for a balance of sorts - no one race screams RANGER (or monk/barbarian/etc) but several are probably somewhat better than others for any given class. So you are not going to get a “BEST RACE FOR X” agreement across the board ( or for that matter a “worst race for”). 2) Hide in plain sight is actually a better ability than we typically give it credit for. Yes you have to spend a minute getting “dressed up” but once that is done you can hide with that +10. Notice the wording - once done NOT immediately after doing so. Think of the ranger as a sniper or a SEAL team member (etc) getting made up before going out on a mission, they spend considerably more than 1 minute getting ghillie suits, cammoflage paints etc on and then - later in the mission - when they need to they hide quickly and easily. Sometimes we need to think about what is NOT said as much as what is said. The ranger could camo up as they start prepping for the day and then use HIPS as needed during the day. They don’t have to camo up right before they hide. 3) personally I don’t find the PHB ranger deeply flawed - I would like to see them get more favored enemies and terrains (+1 each at every 5th level) or able to switch them out after experience with a new one (switch at next level) but I can live with them as they are and the DMs I’m playing with allow Tasha’s so I can switch things out when I want as well.
You and I read, interpret, and use hide in plain sight in exactly the same way! It is a very fun and effective ability when used in the way it is written.
Thanks 😁, sometimes you have to think about how else it could be written and why it wasn’t written that way - and a few real world examples don’t hurt either.
A couple of comments from the peanut gallery 😁 1) It looks to me like WOtC actually tries fairly hard for a balance of sorts - no one race screams RANGER (or monk/barbarian/etc) but several are probably somewhat better than others for any given class. So you are not going to get a “BEST RACE FOR X” agreement across the board ( or for that matter a “worst race for”). 2) Hide in plain sight is actually a better ability than we typically give it credit for. Yes you have to spend a minute getting “dressed up” but once that is done you can hide with that +10. Notice the wording - once done NOT immediately after doing so. Think of the ranger as a sniper or a SEAL team member (etc) getting made up before going out on a mission, they spend considerably more than 1 minute getting ghillie suits, cammoflage paints etc on and then - later in the mission - when they need to they hide quickly and easily. Sometimes we need to think about what is NOT said as much as what is said. The ranger could camo up as they start prepping for the day and then use HIPS as needed during the day. They don’t have to camo up right before they hide. 3) personally I don’t find the PHB ranger deeply flawed - I would like to see them get more favored enemies and terrains (+1 each at every 5th level) or able to switch them out after experience with a new one (switch at next level) but I can live with them as they are and the DMs I’m playing with allow Tasha’s so I can switch things out when I want as well.
You and I read, interpret, and use hide in plain sight in exactly the same way! It is a very fun and effective ability when used in the way it is written.
In that case perhaps either of you can help me, by explaining a rational argument in favour of the PHB Hide in Plain Sight ability over TCE's Nature's Veil (other than for pure thrill of getting to don a ghillie suit) ? That's not meant as a challenge, rather I'm genuinely curious how fans of the PHB ranger see things relative to TCE options. While you are at it I would also be interested to hear how you see Primeval Awareness working in PHB (which to my reading and many others mysteriously nerfs your ability to use it on Favored Enemies). Thank you both for any insights on this.
I will write as thorough of an explanation ad I am able to as soon as I get home computer keyboard.
I will say this about the two different options, they are different but equivalent in power. As a player and dungeon master I find the original and variants to all be very playable.
First of all, please let me say that these abilities, as I'm sure you are aware already, are hotly debated and valued/undervalued by many voices online. Many of the things in this game are vague to say the least, and the ranger happens to be the class that is the most vague. That is likely, I believe, because the ranger focuses quite a bit on something in the game that is not very formulaic or flushed out. The rules are there, but they leave a lot open to DM, table, and group use and interpretation. The other thing is many people feel/think these abilities are terrible or useless, and at the same time use an interpretation of the abilities that are the most restrictive and harsh, so I tend to think I lot of folks that have bad opinions of these abilities create a lot of their own problems. Meaning, if the rule is unclear to the point of being debated at all, and you feel the rule is dumb or weak, then perhaps your reading of the rule is not correct, but that is just me. The final issue is the PHB ranger class, its abilities, and how/if they are used is very much in the hands of the DM, which a lot of folks DO NOT LIKE. I have a warped view of this perhaps, because I have always had great use and fun as a ranger player and DM with a ranger in the party, so that is needed to be made clear up front.
Hide in Plain Sight.
Starting at 10th level, you can spend 1 minute creating camouflage for yourself. You must have access to fresh mud, dirt, plants, soot, and other naturally occurring materials with which to create your camouflage.
Once you are camouflaged in this way, you can try to hide by pressing yourself up against a solid surface, such as a tree or wall, that is at least as tall and wide as you are. You gain a +10 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks as long as you remain there without moving or taking actions. Once you move or take an action or a reaction, you must camouflage yourself again to gain this benefit.
This ability to me is really great. You asked that I make a case for it against Nature's Veil. I'll say a few things. 1. Nature's Veil is the option you want to go with if you are going for pure combat focus. It can't be beat for that focus. Being able to blink invisible for a couple of seconds is amazing for combat. If I was playing Adventurers League or at a table that sort of played a game that just jumped from scene to scene with zero world interaction, then this is the option to go with. However, the way I read, interpret, and use Hide in Plain Sight is a setup and use later ability that is quite powerful. 2. Hide in Plain Sight is not invisible. It is hidden, incredibly so. So right out of the gate any time a party member needs to be still and hidden this can not be beat. Keeping watch for your shift over night? Hide in Plain Sight. Setting an ambush (and people love using this example)? HiPS. Running away or leading enemies away and need to disappear? HiPS. I read this as a two part ability where you spend a minute, so while walking, resting, or waiting while someone else ritual casts a spell, and put on the makeup. Then you have this one-off ability (that can later be done as a bonus action) to press up against something or lay down and be hidden to a level of can not be found. I also use this ability as the two racial hide abilities, where they circumvent the normal rules for line of sight and hiding. 3. So using that reading you can, in combat, lean up against a wall or lay down and disappear. 4. In a world where the PCs interact, travel, explore, and exist, HiPS is very useful. IN a world where combat is the focus, spotlight, and source of fun, NV is going to be the go to choice.
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I've looked online, and a lot of people are saying that they make the best rangers, and I guess I'm not seeing them as particularly strong.
The +2 Dexterity is obviously biggest draw, but they share that with Elves as standard.
+1 Wisdom is also a useful boon.
The weapon proficiency is completely redundant though.
Fleet of Foot adds 5ft to speed, but that seems somewhat situational. If you're at melee distance, you can use it to move out of range? Provokes an attack of opportunity unless you use your action to disengage, hopes they don't have ranged attacks and assumes that the combat area is pretty large. Now I'm writing it this bit better (I forgot this ability when I wrote this post), but still, am I underestimating the power of that extra 5ft?
Maybe my understanding of Mask of the Wild may well be wrong, but it only seems applicable outside of combat and very highly situational. You'd have to find an ambush site and hope that your target happens to come across it...so you can get an extra round via surprise. Very useful if you can pull it off, but I don't think that would happen very much at all. I'd love to be wrong because that would really warm me up to the Wood Elf, so please correct me if I am.
Operating under the assumption that I'm not wrong about the previous...
It just seems like while it's a reasonable choice, it's not necessarily as clear a choice as it would appear. For example, I could trade my +1 Wis for Int instead (not as good but still a pretty nice bonus) and get a free cantrip as a High Elf. If I'm not worried about sunlight (rangers work best at night anyway), then a Drow would trade it for Charisma and a bunch of magic plus a rapier proficiency, although Drow are less accepted at DM tables.
Alternatively, I could trade one of the Dex and dark vision (which does suck) for an increase in the other four abilities as a human or for a feat and an additional skill proficiency as a variant human.
Half Elf would give me +2 Charisma, two proficiencies and languages for the +1 Dex.
I'm assuming that I'm wrong, but I just don't really see it. Especially as the main advantage is the Dex, but if you choose the right fighting styles and as long as your score isn't too low, it isn't overly necessary. Maybe the 5ft speed is what makes it, I don't know. What am I getting wrong?
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I think many people don’t fully understand or appreciate the wood elf’s mask of the wild for the same reason they don’t for the lightfoot halfling’s naturally stealthy and base ranger’s hide in plain sight. Specifically, all three abilities circumvent the normal hiding rules in regards to hiding while being seen or in visual line of sight.
Stealth, LOS, perception, etc... they all tend to be misunderstood unforunately. 5e went a simple route for it and mostly had the decision to let DM do what they wanted with it.
In practice it makes stuff like Mask of the Wild more or less valuable depending on how you play it.
Are you saying that you don't have to break LoS?
It doesn't mention not having to break LoS in the description, which would be an important point. The way it is written suggests that the Wood Elf can hide there as if it's concealment. However, concealment doesn't allow you to hide if the creature knows you're there.
The "Hide in Plain Sight" makes no sense in your interpretation. You're going to spend a minute (ten turns) applying camouflage in the middle of a battle, then stand against a wall, while the enemy watches, and he's not going to know where you are anymore? It only makes sense if you're doing it ahead of time, and the battle starts when you're already camouflaged and they never were aware of where you were.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
They are one of the better options. The movement bonus is nice, and the ability scores are great. Mask of the wild isn't just the skulker feat as a racial feature, but its not terrible. But the meditation sleep and fey ancestry are really good for a ranger thematically too.
Im not sure I could credit a race with strictly being better for the Ranger.
There isn't really a race that perfectly screams "Ranger" quite as much as wood elf.
If we look in the section on stealth in the PHB, specifically on hiding, https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/using-ability-scores#Stealth, it says you can't hide from a creature that can see you.
If we look in the environment section of the PHB, specifically on light obscurement, https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/adventuring#VisionandLight, it doesn't say at all that creatures can't see things in light obscurement, only that they have disadvantage on visual perception checks.
All three abilities give exceptions to these rules. The general rules. These exceptions are to the general rules.
The halfling ability says "You can attempt to hide even when you are obscured only by a creature that is at least one size larger than you." Meaning you take the normal hiding rules and add this onto them for these types of creatures, lightfoot halfling. Are you behind a medium creature? You can make a stealth check.
The wood elf ability, https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/races#WoodElf, "You can attempt to hide even when you are only lightly obscured by foliage, heavy rain, falling snow, mist, and other natural phenomena." Meaning you can you take the normal hiding rules and add this onto them for these types of creatures. Are you in overgrown brush, walking around in a heavy rain, or its twilight out? You can make a stealth check.
The level 10 ranger ability, https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/classes#HideinPlainSight, says "Once you are camouflaged in this way, you can try to hide by pressing yourself up against a solid surface, such as a tree or wall, that is at least as tall and wide as you are." Meaning you add this on top of the normal hiding rules. (There are about 12 different interpretations of how the HiPS ability works.) Have you applied your camouflage? Then you can make a stealth check, with a +10 bonus to the roll, simply by pressing yourself up against a wall or tree as wide and tall as you, or by laying flat on the ground.
All three of these abilities offer exceptional ways to bypass these general rules for line of sight and hiding with specific exceptions to these rules.
Wood Elf Ranger works great and is certainly a popular choice.
As for Mask of the Wild, it's exceptional to the normal Stealth rules. There's a Sage Advice on it:
Do the lightfoot halfling and wood elf hiding racial traits allow them to hide while observed? The lightfoot halfling and wood elf traits—Naturally Stealthy and Mask of the Wild—do allow members of those subraces to try to hide in their special circumstances even when observers are nearby. Normally, you can’t hide from someone if you’re in full view. A lightfoot halfling, though, can try to vanish behind a creature that is at least one size larger, and a wood elf can try to hide simply by being in heavy rain, mist, falling snow, foliage, or similar natural phenomena. It’s as if nature itself cloaks a wood elf from prying eyes—even eyes staring right at the elf! Both subraces are capable of hiding in situations when most other creatures can’t, but neither subrace’s hiding attempt is assured of success; a Dexterity (Stealth) check is required as normal, and an observant foe might later spot a hidden halfling or elf: “I see you behind that guard, you tricksy halfling!”
In a short campaign a while back I played a stout halfling gloomstalker ranger. I found that race to be a great fit for the class. Bonuses to Dex + Con. You can move through another creature's space. You can reroll natural 1's. And you get advntange and resistance against poison.
Sure, wood elves have better movement speed, and Mask of the Wild could be helpful. And they get darkvision, which halflings don't get, but gloomstalkers of any race get free darkvision at level 3.
So they're both great options. But if I ever get a chance, I'd like to play that halfling ranger some more, as that campaign got cut short back when the pandemic quarantine first began in March of 2020.
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
As a very general point- even if one selects the Wood Elf, a very fine choice amongst many for a ranger character, the whole experience is still heavily weighed down by the PHB core class features as written for Ranger. No fewer than 4 of the core class features (Fav Enemy, Nat Explorer, Primeval Awareness, and (certainly) Hide in Plain Sight) are not only deeply flawed from a game mechanic perspective - placing undue pressure on everyone else at the table especially the DM to cater to the ranger player to make his or her character ‘work’, it is also just super lacking in ‘fun’ for many of us. (Please don’t post saying “I love the PHB ranger and have more fun than a barrel full of kobolds playing it- note that I said ‘for many us’, which is empirically true).
If my lovely gaming table was not so terrified of using any non-canon rules I would have replaced long ago the 5e PHB ranger core class with something drawn from earlier editions, Pathfinder, or other games like Dungeon World. As written I just deplore it, which is a shame because 1) ranger is my favourite archetypal fantasy character type, and 2) IMO WotC gets just about every single other character class right. This makes the perceived failures with Ranger so much harder to take.
A lot of these shortcomings are of course addressed pretty well with Tasha’s, except of course for Favored Foe which is still very underwhelming.
Bring on 5.5!
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Don't be Lawful Evil
I have to say it. Many of us use and enjoy the abilities of the PHB core ranger. They work well, are effective, and fun to use. The abilities don’t catch some folks and tables I hear. But that is more of a play style thing.
It's completely possible to be hidden from someone who knows where you are. For example, stand behind a door and shout through it "I am behind this door!". Someone on the other side knows where you are, but can't see you.
A couple of comments from the peanut gallery 😁
1) It looks to me like WOtC actually tries fairly hard for a balance of sorts - no one race screams RANGER (or monk/barbarian/etc) but several are probably somewhat better than others for any given class. So you are not going to get a “BEST RACE FOR X” agreement across the board ( or for that matter a “worst race for”).
2) Hide in plain sight is actually a better ability than we typically give it credit for. Yes you have to spend a minute getting “dressed up” but once that is done you can hide with that +10. Notice the wording - once done NOT immediately after doing so. Think of the ranger as a sniper or a SEAL team member (etc) getting made up before going out on a mission, they spend considerably more than 1 minute getting ghillie suits, cammoflage paints etc on and then - later in the mission - when they need to they hide quickly and easily. Sometimes we need to think about what is NOT said as much as what is said. The ranger could camo up as they start prepping for the day and then use HIPS as needed during the day. They don’t have to camo up right before they hide.
3) personally I don’t find the PHB ranger deeply flawed - I would like to see them get more favored enemies and terrains (+1 each at every 5th level) or able to switch them out after experience with a new one (switch at next level) but I can live with them as they are and the DMs I’m playing with allow Tasha’s so I can switch things out when I want as well.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I generally prefer other races. Wood elf is strong imo, but there are better picks.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
You and I read, interpret, and use hide in plain sight in exactly the same way! It is a very fun and effective ability when used in the way it is written.
Such as?
Thanks 😁, sometimes you have to think about how else it could be written and why it wasn’t written that way - and a few real world examples don’t hurt either.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
In that case perhaps either of you can help me, by explaining a rational argument in favour of the PHB Hide in Plain Sight ability over TCE's Nature's Veil (other than for pure thrill of getting to don a ghillie suit) ? That's not meant as a challenge, rather I'm genuinely curious how fans of the PHB ranger see things relative to TCE options. While you are at it I would also be interested to hear how you see Primeval Awareness working in PHB (which to my reading and many others mysteriously nerfs your ability to use it on Favored Enemies). Thank you both for any insights on this.
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Don't be Lawful Evil
I will write as thorough of an explanation ad I am able to as soon as I get home computer keyboard.
I will say this about the two different options, they are different but equivalent in power. As a player and dungeon master I find the original and variants to all be very playable.
Ok! That was a fast trip home.
First of all, please let me say that these abilities, as I'm sure you are aware already, are hotly debated and valued/undervalued by many voices online. Many of the things in this game are vague to say the least, and the ranger happens to be the class that is the most vague. That is likely, I believe, because the ranger focuses quite a bit on something in the game that is not very formulaic or flushed out. The rules are there, but they leave a lot open to DM, table, and group use and interpretation. The other thing is many people feel/think these abilities are terrible or useless, and at the same time use an interpretation of the abilities that are the most restrictive and harsh, so I tend to think I lot of folks that have bad opinions of these abilities create a lot of their own problems. Meaning, if the rule is unclear to the point of being debated at all, and you feel the rule is dumb or weak, then perhaps your reading of the rule is not correct, but that is just me. The final issue is the PHB ranger class, its abilities, and how/if they are used is very much in the hands of the DM, which a lot of folks DO NOT LIKE. I have a warped view of this perhaps, because I have always had great use and fun as a ranger player and DM with a ranger in the party, so that is needed to be made clear up front.
Hide in Plain Sight.
This ability to me is really great. You asked that I make a case for it against Nature's Veil. I'll say a few things. 1. Nature's Veil is the option you want to go with if you are going for pure combat focus. It can't be beat for that focus. Being able to blink invisible for a couple of seconds is amazing for combat. If I was playing Adventurers League or at a table that sort of played a game that just jumped from scene to scene with zero world interaction, then this is the option to go with. However, the way I read, interpret, and use Hide in Plain Sight is a setup and use later ability that is quite powerful. 2. Hide in Plain Sight is not invisible. It is hidden, incredibly so. So right out of the gate any time a party member needs to be still and hidden this can not be beat. Keeping watch for your shift over night? Hide in Plain Sight. Setting an ambush (and people love using this example)? HiPS. Running away or leading enemies away and need to disappear? HiPS. I read this as a two part ability where you spend a minute, so while walking, resting, or waiting while someone else ritual casts a spell, and put on the makeup. Then you have this one-off ability (that can later be done as a bonus action) to press up against something or lay down and be hidden to a level of can not be found. I also use this ability as the two racial hide abilities, where they circumvent the normal rules for line of sight and hiding. 3. So using that reading you can, in combat, lean up against a wall or lay down and disappear. 4. In a world where the PCs interact, travel, explore, and exist, HiPS is very useful. IN a world where combat is the focus, spotlight, and source of fun, NV is going to be the go to choice.