In 5th edition D&D the word turn is used to refer to the period of time during which a specific creature is moving and taking it's actions.
The word round is used to refer to the timeframe of approximately 6 seconds, during which all creatures in the fight take a turn.
Below is my personal interpretation of this (which may, or may not, be correct).
The phrase on the ability says:
The creature hit by the arrow takes an extra 2d6 poison damage, its speed is reduced by 10 feet, and it takes 2d6 slashing damage the first time on each turn it moves 1 foot or more without teleporting.
I expect that the RAI (Rules as Intended) are for that to be the first time on each turn belonging to the creature afflicted, but that's not what it says.
As you noticed, the RAW (Rules As Written) state the first time on each turn, so if you can find some way to force the target to move on your own turn, then it would apply. You could shove the target back, causing it damage, then another character could shove the target again, so it takes further damage.
I think it indicates this spell can be used quite effectively if you have several other characters who are able to force an enemy to move. If you can shove the enemy around a bunch before it gets free then it gets slashed up by the thorns. Cool. Conversely, the slash damage might never take effect and the poison damage is regularly resisted or immuned. A very tactical action to use.
I think it indicates this spell can be used quite effectively if you have several other characters who are able to force an enemy to move. If you can shove the enemy around a bunch before it gets free then it gets slashed up by the thorns. Cool. Conversely, the slash damage might never take effect and the poison damage is regularly resisted or immuned. A very tactical action to use.
Based on sage advice answers for similar effects, I would agree with this assessment. The rules are very deliberately worded to reference rounds vs. turns, and would say "on each of its turns" if it meant that.
So arcane archer's Grasping arrow says the first time it moves every turn. Do you think it means every person's turn on a round?
What you say here and what the actual text is is slightly different:
The creature hit by the arrow takes an extra 2d6 poison damage, its speed is reduced by 10 feet, and it takes 2d6 slashing damage the first time on each turn it moves 1 foot or more without teleporting.
It doesn't take damage "each turn"; it takes damage "each turn it moves 1 foot or more without teleporting" -- Therefore on anyone's turn in which that creature moves (i.e. the creature chooses to walk/run/jump or is moved by a shove or something similar) it takes the damage.
So arcane archer's Grasping arrow says the first time it moves every turn. Do you think it means every person's turn on a round?
What you say here and what the actual text is is slightly different:
The creature hit by the arrow takes an extra 2d6 poison damage, its speed is reduced by 10 feet, and it takes 2d6 slashing damage the first time on each turn it moves 1 foot or more without teleporting.
It doesn't take damage "each turn"; it takes damage "each turn it moves 1 foot or more without teleporting" -- Therefore on anyone's turn in which that creature moves (i.e. the creature chooses to walk/run/jump or is moved by a shove or something similar) it takes the damage.
That part isn't being questioned by this post. Especially since I said, and it's even in your quote. "...the first time it MOVES each turn."
Still confused if something says I can do something every "round" or every "turn" what is the difference? for instance
Peerless Aim. When you miss with an attack roll, you can hit instead. Once you use this benefit, you can’t use it again until the start of your next turn.
This sound like I can hit every turn in combat. So I never miss, sound OP.
Still confused if something says I can do something every "round" or every "turn" what is the difference? for instance
Peerless Aim. When you miss with an attack roll, you can hit instead. Once you use this benefit, you can’t use it again until the start of your next turn.
This sound like I can hit every turn in combat. So I never miss, sound OP.
Keep in mind that this is feat is only available starting at level 19, where you kind of expect characters to have near-god-like abilities. Also, many characters can make more than one attack in a turn, and this would only affect one of those.
In 5th edition D&D the word turn is used to refer to the period of time during which a specific creature is moving and taking it's actions.
The word round is used to refer to the timeframe of approximately 6 seconds, during which all creatures in the fight take a turn.
Below is my personal interpretation of this (which may, or may not, be correct).
The phrase on the ability says:
The creature hit by the arrow takes an extra 2d6 poison damage, its speed is reduced by 10 feet, and it takes 2d6 slashing damage the first time on each turn it moves 1 foot or more without teleporting.
I expect that the RAI (Rules as Intended) are for that to be the first time on each turn belonging to the creature afflicted, but that's not what it says.
As you noticed, the RAW (Rules As Written) state the first time on each turn, so if you can find some way to force the target to move on your own turn, then it would apply. You could shove the target back, causing it damage, then another character could shove the target again, so it takes further damage.
I believe it means each turn. So if you force the creature to move it takes more damage. That lines up with spirit guardians and similar spells.
Still confused if something says I can do something every "round" or every "turn" what is the difference? for instance
Peerless Aim. When you miss with an attack roll, you can hit instead. Once you use this benefit, you can’t use it again until the start of your next turn.
This sound like I can hit every turn in combat. So I never miss, sound OP.
This feature applies once per round (roughly). If you use it to override a miss on your turn then you can't use it again until your next turn. If you don't use it on your turn, you could still access the feature to override a missed reaction attack during another creature's turn.
It is quite powerful by design, as at least one attack will indeed always hit for you every round.
I think the reason this feature (and others) use language like "once until the start of your next turn" instead of "once per round" is that it is not often clear to a player where one round ends and another begins. Since a reaction can be used any time before your next turn, this wording is needed to allow for the feature to be valid for any reaction-based attack.
If a rule can trigger once per TURN, then that could theoretically happen once on every creature or player's turn for the entire round. It still relies on whatever triggers the effect (like the forced movement causing Grasping arrow damage) so it can be impossible or very unlikely to trigger on most turns of a round.
In d&d you only get one turn per round, unless 2024 changed that.
When something says “ once per turn” it in effect means once per round. Meaning the feature resets every round for a once per turn effect.
Some features though, say “ on your turn, “ or something like “ at the start, or at the end, of your turn “ means that feature will only occur once ether before you start taking actions on your initiative order turn, or at the end of all the actions that can be taken in the initiative order turn. ( reaction timing is separate action, and noted shortly)
Phrases like “ on A turn”, are used for features that consider the reaction ability of a characters turn in a round, that requires a firm understanding of once a reaction has been made at any point in a round, that reaction ability only resets at the “start of your character’s turn in initiative order.”
That means if you burn your reaction just after your turn, you have a long wait possibly. ( which means you only get one reaction per round, and that reaction use resets at the beginning of a characters initiative order.)
Missing descriptive information that should have been added to the rules to clarify the relationship between “turn” and “round” is long overdue.
Once per turn means once per turn.
Once per round means once per round.
You can get sneak attack damage on your turn. You can also get sneak attack damage on someone else's turn.
Essentially it is possible to do something that says once per turn the number of participants times per round.
In reality you can probably only get sneak attack off on your turn, and an opponents turn. But that's at least twice per round.
Let's say you have 4 PCs and a dragon.
That's five turns per round. And one round. Turn is whenever an individual creature acts. Round is the entire initiative pass.
In d&d you only get one turn per round, unless 2024 changed that.
When something says “ once per turn” it in effect means once per round. Meaning the feature resets every round for a once per turn effect.
I get what you're trying to say here, but phrasing it like this can be very misleading, especially for new players. While each character only gets one turn per round, that does mean that there are usually several turns within a round. When something says "once per turn" it means "once per turn", and it can therefore happen several times in a round, unless it's something that's otherwise limited to happening on one particular character's turn.
Missing descriptive information that should have been added to the rules to clarify the relationship between “turn” and “round” and is long overdue.
No, both "round" and "turn" are explicitly defined in both the 2014 and 2024 versions of the Player's Handbook. In both books it says "A round represents about 6 seconds in the game world. During a round, each participant in a battle takes a turn." I think that's pretty clear.
It's also worth noting, as RegentCorreon pointed out above, that 5e D&D doesn't use the term "round" or "once per round" in the actual rules much. It typically says things like "until the start of your next turn" instead, which makes it even clearer.
And “once per turn” is different than “on A turn”.
“On a turn” allows the feature to be used on any characters turn, not just the turn of the character that has the feature.
“ once per turn” is treated as once per round. There is a huge difference in how wording can change when a feature or ability can be used, and the difference is subtle enough that confusion can be easily made in expecting when the feature or ability can be used and when it recharges.
This is wrong. "Once per turn" means exactly what it says on the tin. If it meant "once per round", it would say that. It doesn't, so if the ability becomes relevant on another creature's turn, it can happen again.
And if you really notice, most exceptions to the timing of features and abilities are for reactions that can occur during other creatures turns.
Yes, reactions are the primary mechanism by which one can act on another's turn.
However, most "once per turn" things are continuing effects, such as Moonbeam. And they can trigger multiple times in a round.
Oh and sneak attack states “once per turn”, meaning only one chance to get bonus damage against a single enemy per round. If a feature allows the sneak attack damage as part of a reaction, that that is the exception to the rules that only applies when the feature is triggered.
No, that's just the primary way to get attacks on somebody else's turn.
Reactions don't provide some weird mechanical exception. Check the rules on them. They say nothing about enabling "once per turn" abilities to be used again, because they don't need to. Once per turn abilities can be used in your reaction attack because it's a different turn.
Does the rules allow for any creature to have more than one “turn” per round? ( that is can a creature get a second chance to use all actions again in a round? No)
A “round” and “turn” have always been tied to each other, and the difference between the two is very minimal.
It is only as of late has the distinction between the two gotten blurred due to the thinking that a “once per turn/round feature” is somehow less fun than the ability to use it multiple times in a “round/turn”, and that multi-use per “turn/round” mentality is what causes most of the problems in the rules
Pretty much everything you said in this post does not agree with the actual rules. "Round" and "turn" are fundamentally different things in the rules as written, and things that can happen "once per turn" or "on a turn" can happen more than once per round. This is also stated in the actual rules.
Oh and sneak attack states “once per turn”, meaning only one chance to get bonus damage against a single enemy per round. If a feature allows the sneak attack damage as part of a reaction, that that is the exception to the rules that only applies when the feature is triggered.
A “round” and “turn” have always been tied to each other, and the difference between the two is very minimal.
Round and turn are different things. Sneak Attack is indeed mentioned in one of the questions in the Sage Advice Compendium:
The Sneak Attack description specifies that you can use the feature once per turn, but it’s not limited to your turn. The feature also doesn’t limit the number of times you can use it in a round.
You sometimes get a chance to use Sneak Attack on someone else’s turn. The most common way for this to happen is when a foe provokes an opportunity attack from you. If the requirements for Sneak Attack are met, your opportunity attack can benefit from that feature. Similarly, a fighter could use Commander’s Strike to grant you an attack on the fighter’s turn, and if the attack qualifies, it can use Sneak Attack. Both of those options rely on the use of your reaction, so you could do only one of them in a round.
Because you get only one reaction per round, you’re unlikely to use Sneak Attack more than twice in a round: once with your action and once with your reaction.
Those trying to blow smoke into the exhaust are wasting their breath. I’ve played d&d longer than half of those commenting have been alive.
I know the rules and how they work, the problem is that others have been attempting to use other specific exceptions in other specific circumstances to gain advantages of a feature that change the way it functions and causes a conflict of design and requires further clarification.
Specific rules only pertain to the specific items or features where that exception exists, and attempts to use those exceptions in the general sense is what causes the confusion.
So arcane archer's Grasping arrow says the first time it moves every turn. Do you think it means every person's turn on a round?
You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.
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D&D Beyond FoundersIn 5th edition D&D the word turn is used to refer to the period of time during which a specific creature is moving and taking it's actions.
The word round is used to refer to the timeframe of approximately 6 seconds, during which all creatures in the fight take a turn.
Below is my personal interpretation of this (which may, or may not, be correct).
The phrase on the ability says:
I expect that the RAI (Rules as Intended) are for that to be the first time on each turn belonging to the creature afflicted, but that's not what it says.
As you noticed, the RAW (Rules As Written) state the first time on each turn, so if you can find some way to force the target to move on your own turn, then it would apply. You could shove the target back, causing it damage, then another character could shove the target again, so it takes further damage.
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"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
As you can move, attack and move again it might mean that only on the first move on its turn.
I'm not stupid. I'm just unlucky when I'm thinking.
I think it indicates this spell can be used quite effectively if you have several other characters who are able to force an enemy to move. If you can shove the enemy around a bunch before it gets free then it gets slashed up by the thorns. Cool. Conversely, the slash damage might never take effect and the poison damage is regularly resisted or immuned. A very tactical action to use.
How do you get a one-armed goblin out of a tree?
Wave!
You only lose if you die. Any time else, there's opportunity for a come back.
Still confused if something says I can do something every "round" or every "turn" what is the difference? for instance
Peerless Aim. When you miss with an attack roll, you can hit instead. Once you use this benefit, you can’t use it again until the start of your next turn.
This sound like I can hit every turn in combat. So I never miss, sound OP.
You can miss if doing multiple attacks during the same turn but such feature is very powerful indeed.
Keep in mind that this is feat is only available starting at level 19, where you kind of expect characters to have near-god-like abilities. Also, many characters can make more than one attack in a turn, and this would only affect one of those.
pronouns: he/she/they
I believe it means each turn. So if you force the creature to move it takes more damage. That lines up with spirit guardians and similar spells.
This feature applies once per round (roughly). If you use it to override a miss on your turn then you can't use it again until your next turn. If you don't use it on your turn, you could still access the feature to override a missed reaction attack during another creature's turn.
It is quite powerful by design, as at least one attack will indeed always hit for you every round.
I think the reason this feature (and others) use language like "once until the start of your next turn" instead of "once per round" is that it is not often clear to a player where one round ends and another begins. Since a reaction can be used any time before your next turn, this wording is needed to allow for the feature to be valid for any reaction-based attack.
If a rule can trigger once per TURN, then that could theoretically happen once on every creature or player's turn for the entire round. It still relies on whatever triggers the effect (like the forced movement causing Grasping arrow damage) so it can be impossible or very unlikely to trigger on most turns of a round.
Once per turn means once per turn.
Once per round means once per round.
You can get sneak attack damage on your turn. You can also get sneak attack damage on someone else's turn.
Essentially it is possible to do something that says once per turn the number of participants times per round.
In reality you can probably only get sneak attack off on your turn, and an opponents turn. But that's at least twice per round.
Let's say you have 4 PCs and a dragon.
That's five turns per round. And one round. Turn is whenever an individual creature acts. Round is the entire initiative pass.
I get what you're trying to say here, but phrasing it like this can be very misleading, especially for new players. While each character only gets one turn per round, that does mean that there are usually several turns within a round. When something says "once per turn" it means "once per turn", and it can therefore happen several times in a round, unless it's something that's otherwise limited to happening on one particular character's turn.
No, both "round" and "turn" are explicitly defined in both the 2014 and 2024 versions of the Player's Handbook. In both books it says "A round represents about 6 seconds in the game world. During a round, each participant in a battle takes a turn." I think that's pretty clear.
It's also worth noting, as RegentCorreon pointed out above, that 5e D&D doesn't use the term "round" or "once per round" in the actual rules much. It typically says things like "until the start of your next turn" instead, which makes it even clearer.
pronouns: he/she/they
Don't forget our beloved Thief at level 17 and their amazing Thief's Reflexes feature.
This is wrong. "Once per turn" means exactly what it says on the tin. If it meant "once per round", it would say that. It doesn't, so if the ability becomes relevant on another creature's turn, it can happen again.
Yes, reactions are the primary mechanism by which one can act on another's turn.
However, most "once per turn" things are continuing effects, such as Moonbeam. And they can trigger multiple times in a round.
No, that's just the primary way to get attacks on somebody else's turn.
Reactions don't provide some weird mechanical exception. Check the rules on them. They say nothing about enabling "once per turn" abilities to be used again, because they don't need to. Once per turn abilities can be used in your reaction attack because it's a different turn.
17th level Thief Rogues, for one.
Pretty much everything you said in this post does not agree with the actual rules. "Round" and "turn" are fundamentally different things in the rules as written, and things that can happen "once per turn" or "on a turn" can happen more than once per round. This is also stated in the actual rules.
pronouns: he/she/they
Round and turn are different things. Sneak Attack is indeed mentioned in one of the questions in the Sage Advice Compendium:
Okay. Have a nice day.
pronouns: he/she/they
Wow, first ever ignore on this site...