Instead of a 3D shape that held it's shape for 1 hour, what about a 2D simple shape of a triangle.

Then use another casting to freeze it which will also last an hour.

Take your 50 feet of rope and make a harness to strap the contraption to your back and launch yourself off a cliff.

[REDACTED] I know ice is heavy, but if you make it ultra-thin and lightweight... the magic will ensure it keeps the shape for 1 hour, while in real life something so thin would crack apart, the cantrip says it would retain it's shape for an hour.

I'm not expecting to fly to the moon with this thing, just glide downward over a great distance... visualize the flying squirrel and how it glides with it's membranes. Something like that.

As a DM, in a game I run, I would say no. Other DMs might decide differently.

Some would say .. "Its a cool idea. It should work because it is cool.". Personally, I will use the "rule of cool" to allow a wide range of things if they make sense and don't bend the rules too far. In my opinion, this one bends the rules a bit too far.

1) How does your character know about air foils, aerodynamics and other related knowledge enough to create a shape that can be used as an airfoil for a glider? (By the way, a triangle is not enough).

2) Shape water says "You choose an area of water that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube." and "You cause the water to form into simple shapes". An airfoil is not a simple shape and one capable of keeping a person in the air with all their equipment does not fit in a 5 foot cube.

3) "You freeze the water, provided that there are no creatures in it." The spell can freeze the water. However, the spell doesn't say anything about forcing it to retain its form. It creates ice with all its usual properties. In this case, a structure made of very thin ice would simply fall apart under its own weight.

So, I would say it would not work but you might find a DM who'd allow it because they thought it was cool.

Thank you for your input. This is mostly meant as a bit of a lark but allow me to address some of your concerns.

1) Casters are capable of far greater magics than cantrips and have been casting Fly for thousands of years. I think they know something about aerodynamics by now.

2) Do mean the rounded at the front and tapering off toward the back, like an elongated tear drop. Sounds pretty simple to me. Not everything has to be a basic orb, pyramid, or sphere. The 4 suits on playing cards are simple enough shapes, as are many others, an elongated tear drop is relatively simple. But yeah, heavy armor and a backpack full of stuff is asking too much, so travel light when planning to attempt this stunt. And by no means am I suggesting you can fly or stay in the air for extended periods of time. A slow glide down to earth might be possible though.

3)You can have up to 2 castings of this cantrip active at one time. One to retain the shape and the other to freeze it. The spell actually does say it retains it's shape for an hour, not fall apart under it's own weight.

This won't work like modern hang-gliding, you're not going to ride updrafts and do loop the loops or anything. But a sustained glide going steadily downward, sort of a controlled descend of sorts to prevent 20d6 fall damage. Yeah, it might actually work.

Everything depends on the DM in every game of D&D. I'm thinking about 99% won't allow this to work. Maybe if you combine it with casting Enlarge/Reduce to reduce your size by half and your weight by 1/8th. Now we got something with legs... errr... wings.

Here's why I wouldn't allow it.

1. Could you make a glider in a 5 foot cube without folding it? Even if you arranged it on a diagonal to make it as wide as possible and made it out of an ideal material, no glider would have enough lift to support a 200+ pound adventurer. Heck, I doubt a 5 foot wide glider would be able to support even 100 pounds. And you can't fold ice without cracking or melting it, so that's off the table.

2. Could you make a glider out of ice that would be big enough to generate enough lift to support 200+ pounds combined with the weight of the glider itself without falling apart? Ice is surprisingly heavy and fragile, so the glider would either be too heavy to fly or too fragile to support its own weight.

3. This is too powerful of a use for a cantrip that was never intended to allow flight. There's plenty of reasons that it shouldn't work, and balancing is the final nail in the coffin.

Having the ability to cast fly is probably why they don’t know about aerodynamics. If you can do it via magic, why would you study the physics of non-magical flight? Via the spell, they have the same movement rate if they’re in a perfectly smooth egg, or holding a piece of plywood in front of them. Maybe an artificer would (though they don’t get shape water), but a wizard, no, they’re spending their research time trying to work the kinks out of wish.

It even comes in potion form for the non-casters.

Here's why you might?

1. Yes, you could make a 5 foot glider without folding it. It would just be very small. The Stone Shape spell allows for this... The object you create can have up to two hinges and a latch, but finer mechanical detail isn’t possible. Sounds like they're trying to keep it simple. Maybe you could make a folding wing shape that fits into a 5 foot cube. What about supporting a 40 pound halfling or gnome, what if they also cast Enlarge/Reduce to make themselves weigh 1/8th, that's ummm... 5 pounds and they would now be tiny size. Hey, guess what, it turns out with a simple hinge you can have a folding piece of ice without cracking it. And doesn't the cantrip say it holds it's shape for 1 hour, guess it's not going to crack for 60 minutes.

2. If the glider is ultra thin and the magic sustains it's shape for an hour, and the passenger is tiny and weighs only 5 pounds soaking wet. This is actually sounding like it's plausible.

3. It was never intended for flight, just a controlled descend, a gentle glide toward the earth below instead of free-falling. Ice can be as light as snow flake in extreme cases but here it just needs to be light enough to create lift... sort of like the way metal wings on a plane create lift. Hey, now wait just a gall darn minute, do you believe metal wings can create lift but ice wings can't. I think metal is heavier than ice. Once again, the cantrip is a magic spell that does what it says, holds the shape for an hour. Now as for balancing, using the bare minimum of rope to create a harness, one where you have a little leeway to shift your 5 pounds of weigh left to right about half a foot could not only adjust for balance but allow you to steer, the same way modern hang-gliders do. Keep in mind you're not trying to duplicate modern hang-gliding, but just create a somewhat controlled descent.

Hopefully if it works you can avoid ending up in a coffin.

Because studying the science of flight is how they were able to create the fly spell in the 1st place. Wizards are wicked smart.

Wizards study all sorts of things. Just look at how they use shape water to make hang gliders for example.

Quote from Brian_Avery >>

1) Casters are capable of far greater magics than cantrips and have been casting Fly for thousands of years. I think they know something about aerodynamics by now.

Counterpoint: having access to a spell which allows them to fly regardless of shape, weight etc. gives them no reason to know anything at all about aerodynamics

EDIT: or what Xalthu said

Quote from Brian_Avery >>

1. Yes, you could make a 5 foot glider without folding it. It would just be very small. The Stone Shape spell...

...is 4th level as opposed to a cantrip. But that point too was already made

Quote from 54MU31 >>

Here's why I wouldn't allow it.

3. This is too powerful of a use for a cantrip that was never intended to allow flight. There's plenty of reasons that it shouldn't work, and balancing is the final nail in the coffin.

Counter-counterpoint. They don't just have access to the Fly spell. It's not some game for them where it appears on a list. They spent an unbelievable amount of time doing research before ever putting pen to paper. What were they studying for so long to create the fly spell... well, flying and all related things. In order to have a spell that allows them to fly they would need to know about flying.

Wizards are wicked smart.

I have not homebrewed or altered the Shape Water spell in any way to make it op. I'm just applying the different castings of it in a creative way. Once again, for the umpteenth time. You do not get flight with this cantrip, nor am I trying to do that. It can however create a glider that would provide a slower than falling speed descent to the ground for a tiny 5 pound creature.

The saddest thing here is that you all simply don't believe in magic. You live in a world of straight lines and tiny boxes. Literal coffins from which you cannot escape. I however offer not only an escape but the chance to fly in a fantasy game. This isn't real, don't get upset, it's just a game for us to enjoy.

I hope everyone is having a great holiday season. I would stay longer to make more points on this but I really have to get to work on my Shape Water time machine.

Love you, byeeee!!!

It's cool to use cantrips creatively. However, the problem is that here you are holding on to the literalness of the cantrip to do things that really fall outside its design. For example, when you say it wouldn't break because magic would hold its shape for an hour. As a DM I do not interpret this to be so. If I let you do that, nothing would stop you from creating a shield, or a wall, or any other structure that was unbreakable for an hour.

Shape Water is one of the best utility cantrips. It is one of my favorites because it allows you to do a lot of creative things. However, it is still a cantrip, and its power level must be kept as cantrip. Using it for flying (for gliding, actually) far exceeds what a cantrip is supposed to do.

Now, having said that, if at a certain moment a player asked me something like this narratively, I could allow him to do it. But if I see him abuse, and use it to break the rules, I would explain to him why he can't do that. For example, i would explain to her that water holds its shape, but that would not allow her to make water shackles. Water is still water, and ice is still ice. Its properties remain what they are, even if you give it one form or another, and even if the spell says that that form lasts for an hour. Obviously the intention of its design is not to make things unbreakable.

The magic will hold it's shape for an hour, but not against outside things, it's not some magic indestructible shape. Hit it with a weapon and it will shatter if thin enough, or simply chip if thick enough, depending on what shape it currently holds. But what I am trying to convey is the water will hold it's shape in defiance of it's usual nature. It won't simply fall apart or shatter like regular ice. There is the magic of the cantrip to hold it together.

The 1st casting forms a shape that will hold together for 1 hour in defiance of regular things like gravity.

The 2nd casting doesn't end the 1st but adds to it. You now have a frozen shape that will hold it's form for roughly an hour in defiance of gravity.

If damage is done to the ice shape it could shatter or chip. But it simply wont fall apart on it's own like regular ice because the magic power of the cantrip says it will hold together for an hour.

It is only a cantrip, but it's power level never changes. If 3 wizards cast this spell in 3 different ways, 3 different things could happen. The 1st wizard casts it twice to make a cube and freeze it, he now has a giant ice cube that he will find difficult to move. The 2nd wizard does the same but creates a sphere of ice, he can now roll that ice around on his own. Did the 2nd wizard increase the power of the cantrip or just use his noodle a little more to come up with a more creative shape. The 3rd wizard makes a glider that could be used for a 'controlled descent' instead of a free fall.

All 3 castings use the same cantrip at the same power level, it is the individual wizard that decides on how to best use the cantrip. There will be many times in games when casters will use a spell in a new and creative way. A way in which the spell was not designed to be used but could be used if the caster is creative enough.

I agree it should not be unbreakable, but ice shapes that hold their form for an hour should not crumble at the slightest breeze. Keep in mind that if you only use it to make a watery sphere that holds it shape for an hour, that is in defiance of gravity for an entire hour.

Ultimately this is an extreme use (abuse) of the cantrip. Players are going to come up with crazy uses for spells and other features/items etc. in the game, some will far exceed what others think was intended. Creative uses of things in the game, a game that is supposed to inspire and encourage imagination, should not be so quickly dismissed. Sure, don't let them get away with murder (although, the term murderhobo has been quickly embraced and most just laugh it off as a joke) but don't just shut everything down as a knee jerk reaction. If you mention a concern why it wouldn't work and the player finds a way to address that concern, give it a second look.

Regardless of whether it ends up working exactly as planned, it could be fun just to let the player try something so insanely off the wall. It could be an unexpected source of fun and entertainment.

Enjoy the holidays and thanks for the feedback. It helps me figure out what might be allowed in games. Plus I can now get to work overcoming some of the things that make this impossible. It might never work but it will lead to other creative uses of the cantrip, and some of those might work.

Good point, some fantasy civilizations have existed way longer than ours in rl.

Maybe Magic trumps Technology?

But then the ice would break under the pressure of the air. Ice is very brittle, so it needs a considerable thickness to avoid breaking.
Anyway, as I said before, if it doesn't break the game, and it's something narrative that you're going to use occasionally, I would allow it. But it really wouldn't be possible unless the ice was magically unbreakable.

Ice can be brittle and break quite easily. There are different kinds of ice though, black ice and dry ice come to mind, maybe some forms of ice aren't as brittle as other kinds.

Although I said in some posts once it is frozen the 2nd bullet point wouldn't matter, but you could have 2 of the hour long castings active at the same time. The 2nd bullet point says it retains it shape for 1 hour. So maybe you would hear the ice cracking and breaking, due to the air, the temperature, and maybe some other things that would affect it, but wouldn't it still retain it's shape for the hour. It really doesn't matter how many pieces it gets broken into as they don't fall away, they retain their shape, the ice-glider.

I mean the alternative is the air or temperature or what not could destroy shapes that aren't being used for this purpose also. Cast a cantrip that says it retains it's shape for an hour... but it immediately fall apart due to... reasons?

Sounds suspiciously like a DM hack to get around what the cantrip says it can do.

And I know it can't hold that shape against damage or some other things, but to say it just auto fails to hold it's shape because that might serve to nix the ice-glider makes the spell worthless for all other uses. Why wouldn't every shape just fall apart?

 This change lasts for 1 hour. The preceding sentence suggests the shape lasts for an hour, but many different things could change that, I'm not sure just saying if it moves through the air it should collapse is a very fair interpretation of the cantrip.

And I know it can't hold that shape against damage or some other things, but to say it just auto fails to hold it's shape because that might serve to nix the ice-glider makes the spell worthless for all other uses. Why wouldn't every shape just fall apart?

It depends what you are doing. An ice ladder, for example, should hold long enough to lift you out of a well. A 2-foot-thick plank should be able to support your weight. And things like that. I would simply apply common sense, but always subject to the narrative sense. If what you are doing is cool, and it's not an absurd abuse, I would allow it without problems even if physically it's quite debatable that water or ice behaved that way.

No offense, but to me, it sounds like you're dead set on being able to use the Shape Water cantrip to create a glider, and aren't going to change your interpretation despite what the community may say. Yes, RAW, it is theoretically plausible, but only if you bend the rules. A lot. The evidence you're presenting in your favor requires a rather specific interpretation of the spell. In order for this to work, you and your DM have to agree on the following:

1. Your character has an understanding of aviation and can build a glider using proper materials.
2. The Shape Water cantrip allows for intricate shapes such as joints to be formed.
3. Shaping and then freezing water using this cantrip makes it indestructible OR the ice is light enough and strong enough to support a rider.

And here's why I'd rule that each one of these points doesn't work:

1. In most medieval fantasy settings, flight is nearly impossible by means other than wings or flight. Unless your character specifically works in aviation, it is highly unlikely that they would understand how to build a glider. (The Fly spell doesn't require an understanding of aviation, as the target flies purely by magic. It might make them weightless or give them subconscious control over gravity, but there's no reason for a wizard to study birds or non-existent planes to be able to fly with it.)
2. The cantrip says the following, "You cause the water to form into simple shapes and animate at your direction. This change lasts for 1 hour." While I can imagine a DM allowing a wing to be created, joints would be impossible. And you can't use Stone Shape as a means of justifying complex shapes, they're not the same spell. And you can't create a glider in a 5 foot space without joints, it wouldn't have enough lift.
3. This cantrip does not make the water inherently magical in any way. It does not become weightless or defy gravity. It merely shapes it or freezes it. Freezing it forms normal ice, because you are using normal water. (Black ice is just smooth ice and dry ice is made of CO2. Yes there are other types of ice that have different properties, but they don't exist on earth and can only be created in labs. Yes there is magic, but the spell doesn't say that you decide what kind of ice your turn the water into. Normal water turns into normal ice.). To repeat, The Shape Water Cantrip does not make the water magical in any way, shape, or form. It merely alters its visual properties and can freeze it temporarily. It is normal ice. And as it has been stated repeatedly, the ice would either fall apart or be too heavy to work as a glider.

The Shape Water Cantrip is a role-play/utility cantrip. It's intentionally vague to allow for players and DMs to have fun in social encounters. It falls into the same category as Thaumaturgy, Presdigitation, Control Flames, Mold Earth, Gust, Druidcraft, and similar cantrips. We are not hating on your idea, but as far as I can tell, the community agrees that the majority of DMs would not allow this to work. There is far too much evidence against this use, both in the real world and in the written rules. And the "Rule of Cool?" This is "too cool" to be considered legal by most DMs.

Outside forces can always interact with the shape.

The shape is not invulnerable.

Neither is it immune to fire, although it might take a little while to melt ice depending on it's thickness.

It might take some practice castings to get it just right, due to thickness and aerodynamics, and work out all the kinks and such.

This idea sounds so outside the box and stretches anyone's imagination to the limits I can see most DMs shooting it down.

I'll grant that your stated use here wouldn't equal a fly spell, which is 3rd level

On the other hand, what you're trying to do would be better than feather fall, which is 1st level, since you'd have at least some control over your descent with the glider and the effect would last an hour rather than a minute

So you're still asking for something like 2nd-level spell potency out of a cantrip. It's a no from me, dawg

Quote from Brian_Avery >>

This idea sounds so outside the box and stretches anyone's imagination to the limits

Anyone who knows who the Wonder Twins are has no difficulty imagining what you're trying to do, my dude. We're just saying it won't work with shape water

If you want to be a cool ice wizard and make cool ice things to get you out of jams, homebrew something