Just looking for a quick answer because of the wording, do you apply the weapons normal damage (rapier 1d8, shortsword 1d6) AND additional dice such as flame tongue (2d6) when you hit with the weapon attack that is part of the spell? Or does the spell damage replace the weapons normal damage?
Both booming blade and green-flame blade are pretty clear that the normal effects of the weapon attack apply, which would include extra damage applied on a hit. Other than these two cantrips, I don’t recall any similar “Spells such as”.
Just looking for a quick answer because of the wording, do you apply the weapons normal damage (rapier 1d8, shortsword 1d6) AND additional dice such as flame tongue (2d6) when you hit with the weapon attack that is part of the spell? Or does the spell damage replace the weapons normal damage?
Booming Blade and Green-flame Blade are both purely additive, so if you cast them with a flame tongue rapier, you add their damage to the 1d8+2d6+(strength or dexterity). For both spells, that's on the first damage roll - the second roll is just spell damage.
Lightning Arrow is significantly more nuanced in its wording, and you may find different DMs interpret it differently.
Just looking for a quick answer because of the wording, do you apply the weapons normal damage (rapier 1d8, shortsword 1d6) AND additional dice such as flame tongue (2d6) when you hit with the weapon attack that is part of the spell? Or does the spell damage replace the weapons normal damage?
Booming Blade and Green-flame Blade are both purely additive, so if you cast them with a flame tongue rapier, you add their damage to the 1d8+2d6+(strength or dexterity). For both spells, that's on the first damage roll - the second roll is just spell damage.
Lightning Arrow is significantly more nuanced in its wording, and you may find different DMs interpret it differently.
I mean, Lightning Arrow does specifically say "instead of the weapon's normal damage". I don't see a whole lot of room for interpretation there...
But the rest of what you said is spot on!
Here are two Jeremy Crawford tweets, to showcase how multiple DMs can disagree:
PHB p196 says you add your Ability Modifier to the damage you deal when you hit with a weapon, implying the first tweet is correct - that is, by definition, your ability modifier is part of a weapon's damage, so the spell replaces it.
PHB p146 and the weapons table on p149 imply the second tweet is correct by describing how much "damage they deal when they hit" ("they" meaning weapons).
In any case JC is right that "normal" damage is meaningless - Lightning Arrow could replace "weapon's normal damage" with "weapon's damage" and nothing conveying a rules meaning would be lost.
Remember, OP was explicitly asking about magic weapons, which may have weirder answers as your DM decides. When you use Lightning Arrow with an Oathbow on your sworn enemy, how much damage do you deal?
Any weapon you have that includes a bonus directly to the weapon attack roll is added on top of the additional effects of Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade, but if the weapon has a unique action required to take advantage of its special properties it can't be combined with BB or GFB, since the spells overtly call for a simple Weapon Attack and nothing else.
I think the rules and sage advice are pretty clear and consistent with how the rules work.
For example with lightning arrow and oathbow, it would be 4d8+dex (lightning) +3d6 (piercing).
Modifiers are added to weapon damage but are not the weapon's damage so still get applied to the lightning damage of the weapon attack. Oathbow is additional damage that is added to weapon damage by a magical effect of the weapon, but is not the weapon's normal damage.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Just looking for a quick answer because of the wording, do you apply the weapons normal damage (rapier 1d8, shortsword 1d6) AND additional dice such as flame tongue (2d6) when you hit with the weapon attack that is part of the spell? Or does the spell damage replace the weapons normal damage?
Both booming blade and green-flame blade are pretty clear that the normal effects of the weapon attack apply, which would include extra damage applied on a hit. Other than these two cantrips, I don’t recall any similar “Spells such as”.
Booming Blade and Green-flame Blade are both purely additive, so if you cast them with a flame tongue rapier, you add their damage to the 1d8+2d6+(strength or dexterity). For both spells, that's on the first damage roll - the second roll is just spell damage.
Lightning Arrow is significantly more nuanced in its wording, and you may find different DMs interpret it differently.
Perfect, thanks guys!
Here are two Jeremy Crawford tweets, to showcase how multiple DMs can disagree:
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/984847570479398912 - JC says he has Lightning Arrow roll 4d8
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/974523955691233280 - JC says he has Lightning Arrow roll 4d8 + Ability Modifier (chosen for a base attack with the weapon, not the Spell Ability Modifier)
Some more confusion:
Any weapon you have that includes a bonus directly to the weapon attack roll is added on top of the additional effects of Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade, but if the weapon has a unique action required to take advantage of its special properties it can't be combined with BB or GFB, since the spells overtly call for a simple Weapon Attack and nothing else.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
I think the rules and sage advice are pretty clear and consistent with how the rules work.
For example with lightning arrow and oathbow, it would be 4d8+dex (lightning) +3d6 (piercing).
Modifiers are added to weapon damage but are not the weapon's damage so still get applied to the lightning damage of the weapon attack. Oathbow is additional damage that is added to weapon damage by a magical effect of the weapon, but is not the weapon's normal damage.