I am playing a moon druid and wondering about the rules and mechanics around using wildshape to turn into a giant eagle, grappling and then dragging the enemy through spike growth while flying. I think its reasonable to assume that Eagle claws should be able to grapple.
Assuming the grapple check is successful, grappling rules state you can drag the opponent up to half your movement. So of an 80 foot fly speed you could potentially drag a guy 40 feet through spike growth while flying, and up to another 80 feet if you dash as a bonus action (multiclass into rogue for cunning action).
However under carrying capacity rules, pushing, dragging or lifting anything above your carrying capacity restricts your movement to 5 feet. A giant eagle has a carrying capacity of 480 lbs.
Which rule do you use?
Can the giant eagle grapple and move half their speed (as per grappling rules) any creature up to one size larger? You can also move a grappled creature two sizes smaller with no movement penalty, so in this case a size small creature.
Or
Should the giant eagle that has grappled a creature use carring capacity rules (because of flying) which would mean any creature under 480lbs could be carried at full (or half?) movement but any creature over that weight would slow its movement to 5 feet?
What are the rules for flying and grappling in this scenario?
And would the movement rules be the same if giant eagle grappled a creature and flew straight up really high and dropped the opponent.
I would say both rules apply. By default the grapple rule halves your speed but if you exceed your push/drag/lift capacity then you only get 5 feet of movement.
Dragging someone makes it more difficult to walk, doing it while flying would seem to be even more difficult. So I'd probably go with both, i.e half speed up to carry cap and 5ft if above capacity (possibly even not allowing it at all then).
If it matters to you, RAI is that the grappling rules aren't supposed to interact with carrying capacity rules (though I think there is an argument that they do, RAW). This is largely because monsters aren't given explicit weights, which makes this carrying capacity difficult to figure out in the heat of combat.
IMO, this does make more sense for the general case of grappling + walking, where you aren't strictly carrying/dragging the creature and might be able to use the creature's momentum in your favor and cause them to 'stumble along'.
Personally, if you are flying with the creature, I think that logic flies out the window and I'd probably swap over to carrying capacity rules with an on-the-fly weight ruling. A Giant Eagle shouldn't just be able to pluck a Stone Giant off the ground and fly away with only a half speed penalty. Situations like these are why the DM is given so much flexibility in adjudicating rules.
There's a lack of rules on the subject of carrying capacities when flying. Typically, flying creatures try to reduce weight. They have hollow bones.
The lack of rules doesn't end at flying creatures, in fact there is a shortage of rules for all manner of movement types when carrying other creatures.
You have some threadbare rules for movement while grappling a creature, but this is based entirely on creature sizes, oddly enough, and not on weight or strength or carrying capacity. Other than this you have some rules for mounted combat, which, again, leans on creature sizes and not on carrying capacity, weights, or strength scores.
If we assume there is no distinction made for carrying an item vs carrying a creature, then, we could just treat attempts to full on pick up and carry around a creature to simply be based on their carrying capacity vs weight. But whether this is how we should, would, could resolve this interaction is never specifically addressed.
For example, if you have someone grappled and they're well within your carrying capacity, can you just pick them up and sling them over your shoulder like a sack of potatoes? Seems you should be able to, but exactly how to adjudicate this interaction isn't spelled out for us.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Can the giant eagle grapple and move half their speed (as per grappling rules) any creature up to one size larger?
Yes, Moving a Grappled Creature limit movement as written regardless of weight or carrying capacity. It's more simple to not rely on calculation or cross-referencing and just halve speed.
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I am playing a moon druid and wondering about the rules and mechanics around using wildshape to turn into a giant eagle, grappling and then dragging the enemy through spike growth while flying. I think its reasonable to assume that Eagle claws should be able to grapple.
Assuming the grapple check is successful, grappling rules state you can drag the opponent up to half your movement. So of an 80 foot fly speed you could potentially drag a guy 40 feet through spike growth while flying, and up to another 80 feet if you dash as a bonus action (multiclass into rogue for cunning action).
However under carrying capacity rules, pushing, dragging or lifting anything above your carrying capacity restricts your movement to 5 feet. A giant eagle has a carrying capacity of 480 lbs.
Which rule do you use?
Can the giant eagle grapple and move half their speed (as per grappling rules) any creature up to one size larger? You can also move a grappled creature two sizes smaller with no movement penalty, so in this case a size small creature.
Or
Should the giant eagle that has grappled a creature use carring capacity rules (because of flying) which would mean any creature under 480lbs could be carried at full (or half?) movement but any creature over that weight would slow its movement to 5 feet?
What are the rules for flying and grappling in this scenario?
And would the movement rules be the same if giant eagle grappled a creature and flew straight up really high and dropped the opponent.
Thanks
There's a lack of rules on the subject of carrying capacities when flying. Typically, flying creatures try to reduce weight. They have hollow bones.
I would say both rules apply. By default the grapple rule halves your speed but if you exceed your push/drag/lift capacity then you only get 5 feet of movement.
Dragging someone makes it more difficult to walk, doing it while flying would seem to be even more difficult. So I'd probably go with both, i.e half speed up to carry cap and 5ft if above capacity (possibly even not allowing it at all then).
If it matters to you, RAI is that the grappling rules aren't supposed to interact with carrying capacity rules (though I think there is an argument that they do, RAW). This is largely because monsters aren't given explicit weights, which makes this carrying capacity difficult to figure out in the heat of combat.
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IMO, this does make more sense for the general case of grappling + walking, where you aren't strictly carrying/dragging the creature and might be able to use the creature's momentum in your favor and cause them to 'stumble along'.
Personally, if you are flying with the creature, I think that logic flies out the window and I'd probably swap over to carrying capacity rules with an on-the-fly weight ruling. A Giant Eagle shouldn't just be able to pluck a Stone Giant off the ground and fly away with only a half speed penalty. Situations like these are why the DM is given so much flexibility in adjudicating rules.
The lack of rules doesn't end at flying creatures, in fact there is a shortage of rules for all manner of movement types when carrying other creatures.
You have some threadbare rules for movement while grappling a creature, but this is based entirely on creature sizes, oddly enough, and not on weight or strength or carrying capacity. Other than this you have some rules for mounted combat, which, again, leans on creature sizes and not on carrying capacity, weights, or strength scores.
If we assume there is no distinction made for carrying an item vs carrying a creature, then, we could just treat attempts to full on pick up and carry around a creature to simply be based on their carrying capacity vs weight. But whether this is how we should, would, could resolve this interaction is never specifically addressed.
For example, if you have someone grappled and they're well within your carrying capacity, can you just pick them up and sling them over your shoulder like a sack of potatoes? Seems you should be able to, but exactly how to adjudicate this interaction isn't spelled out for us.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I play a Owlin druid and I was wondering the same thing. I was wanting to pick up my friend and get out of range of any attacks including ranged.
I believe you should only be able to move half your speed but if you are still not certain move 3/4 of your flying speed.
Yes, Moving a Grappled Creature limit movement as written regardless of weight or carrying capacity. It's more simple to not rely on calculation or cross-referencing and just halve speed.