An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a Special sense. For the Purpose of Hiding, the creature is heavily obscured. The creature’s Location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves.
BOOTS OF ELVENKIND
While you wear these boots, your steps make no sound, regardless of the surface you are moving across. You also have advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks that rely on moving silently.
So I know that combat mechanic-wise, Both invisibility and the boots "Give adv. on stealth". And TECHNICALLY a creature that is invisible's position isn't completely unknown due to the "detected by noise and tracks" caveat on the invisible condition, hence attacks can target an invisible creature and invisibility isn't an automatic invulnerability. I get all this.
However, the boots, while also redundantly giving adv. on stealth, have the additional "steps make no sound" which the invisible condition specifically stated was the ONLY (other than tracks made) way that other creatures could use to know the location.
So together, Invisibility (no sight) and Boots (no sound) in an indoor scenario (no tracks) shouldn't even warrant a stealth check in my opinion (not considering blind/truesight). Before anyone says anything: No, I am not a player trying to get away with this, I am a DM who just wants a clear interpretation. At the moment, I am FOR letting a player use this combo since if they've decked themselves out for espionage, might as well let them.
If you want to rule it that way for your table, go for it. I think an argument can be made that being stealthy can, at times, involve more than just the sound of your footsteps.
Footsteps are indeed one of several ways a PC might make noise when they are not hiding. As for not needing to make a stealth check, you usually do not need to make one unless you are trying to hide. And if you do try to hide, your stealth check will most likely be made at advantage due to being invisible and/or wearing the magic boots.
If you want to rule it that way for your table, go for it. I think an argument can be made that being stealthy can, at times, involve more than just the sound of your footsteps.
And that's why its no sound AND no vision. I mean, I guess they could bump into a fancy vase and break it or something, but that just feels like a DM forcing reasoning
However, the boots, while also redundantly giving adv. on stealth, have the additional "steps make no sound" which the invisible condition specifically stated was the ONLY (other than tracks made) way that other creatures could use to know the location.
It specifies any sound made, not just your footsteps. Boots of elvenkind give advantage for not making sound, but do not automatically mean that you make no sound.
However, the boots, while also redundantly giving adv. on stealth, have the additional "steps make no sound" which the invisible condition specifically stated was the ONLY (other than tracks made) way that other creatures could use to know the location.
It specifies any sound made, not just your footsteps. Boots of elvenkind give advantage for not making sound, but do not automatically mean that you make no sound.
but...but.. they literally say verbatim "While you wear these boots, your steps make no sound" and that gives you adv. on sneaking based on sound. I don't know how THAT part can be interpreted any differently...
Hypothetically, even if you horrifically failed a stealth roll even with the advantage wearing the boots, your detection, COULD NOT, be due to sound your feet made. The boots literally say they don't.
Since you are the DM, just look at the situation and ask yourself if you think the PC is unseen and unheard. If yes, then they are de facto hidden.
THIS is what I'm saying! If a PC is walking through a building while invisible wearing noise canceling boots just scoping out the place, the only way I can think they could "fail stealth" is if I as the DM said something like "you sneezed" or "you ran into the guy" and that feels really cheezy and forced to me
but...but.. they literally say verbatim "While you wear these boots, your steps make no sound" and that gives you adv. on sneaking based on sound. I don't know how THAT part can be interpreted any differently...
Yes, your steps make no sound. Characters and creatures can and do make sounds in ways other than their footsteps, which is why it's advantage, not auto-success.
Note that Invisibility doesn't inherently grant advantage on all stealth checks. Its a DM call based on the scenario.
Additionally, the following statement is incorrect (emphasis mine)
However, the boots, while also redundantly giving adv. on stealth, have the additional "steps make no sound" which the invisible condition specifically stated was the ONLY (other than tracks made) way that other creatures could use to know the location.
Invisibility does not give an exhaustive list of ways to detect location - it simply gives examples that reliably do so. The word 'only' is not present. For example - if the creature interacts with the environment in any way (opens a door, walks through a curtain, knocks over a vase, kicks up a bunch of dust, wades through water, makes an attack, literally stumbles into another creature), their location might reasonably be determined.
So your suggestion is one of those scenarios where its an absolutely reasonable rulingfor a DM to make, but it isn't forced by the rules. And that's fine - the DM should be making rulings, as the rules can't predict every possible scenario.
So I know that combat mechanic-wise, Both invisibility and the boots "Give adv. on stealth". And TECHNICALLY a creature that is invisible's position isn't completely unknown due to the "detected by noise and tracks" caveat on the invisible condition, hence attacks can target an invisible creature and invisibility isn't an automatic invulnerability. I get all this.
As DM you're free to make any ruling of course!
Some interaction isn't correct to me;
The boots of elvenkind grant advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks that rely on moving silently, not to hide like a Cloak of Elvenkind does. Also, moving silently and being unheard is different.
Being invisible doesn't grant advantage to Stealth checks to hide, it enables you to try to hide when you otherwise couldn't.
The boots of elvenkind grant advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks to move silently, this wether you're invisible or not. As you can see, these two have no connection whatsoever if you are trying to hide rather than simply move silently. Just like if you're trying to move silently, wether you're invisible or not also won't change anything as there's no connection.
Since you are the DM, just look at the situation and ask yourself if you think the PC is unseen and unheard. If yes, then they are de facto hidden.
THIS is what I'm saying! If a PC is walking through a building while invisible wearing noise canceling boots just scoping out the place, the only way I can think they could "fail stealth" is if I as the DM said something like "you sneezed" or "you ran into the guy" and that feels really cheezy and forced to me
What would you do if the invisible person wearing the Boots of Elvenkind picked up a torch to light his path?
The creak of your leather armor, the jingle of a metal strap securing a weapon to your belt, the rustle of clothing, heavy breathing, the sniffles, passing gas, and many many more are things that can give away a PC’s location. (Edit: Just think of all the gear you are carrying and you can see how something can be making noise.) Invisibility doesn’t restrict being detected to your footsteps or tracks.
With the boots and invisibility you have advantage on stealth checks. Nothing more unless as a DM you choose to rule otherwise, which is totally up to you and can be a valid call on your part in a given situation.
but...but.. they literally say verbatim "While you wear these boots, your steps make no sound" and that gives you adv. on sneaking based on sound. I don't know how THAT part can be interpreted any differently...
Yes, your steps make no sound. Characters and creatures can and do make sounds in ways other than their footsteps, which is why it's advantage, not auto-success.
This.
Just because your steps make no sound doesn't mean you might not bump into a wall, or your sword might rattle in its sheath, or you get a hiccup, or your clothes rustle, or some gold pieces clink together in your belt pouch, or you drop something, or any of the 101 other ways a person can make a sound.
People's location is not automatically revealed when they are invisible.
The creature’s Location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves.
It says: "can be" not "is".
IF it makes noise, you can detect it by that noise.
IF it leaves tracks you can detect it by those tracks.
Neither of those are guaranteed to happen and neither of those automatically happen.
So if you're invisible and running around in elvenkind boots, you're less likely to have your position detected from the sound of your footfalls compared to if not wearing the boots. But you could still reveal your location from tracks. If you attack, talk, or cast a verbal-component spell you could still reveal your location. If you do some other sufficiently loud activity, again, revealed location. But a dead sprint through the battlefield might not, even if it would other invisible people like a knight in plate whose boots clank against the marble floors. Yours don't.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
People's location is not automatically revealed when they are invisible.
The creature’s Location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves.
It says: "can be" not "is".
And the way you determine whether the character actually got detected is "did you succeed at your stealth check".
No, the DM tells you.
There are millions of creatures in the game world whose location is unknown to you and who aren't actively hiding. The DM tells you when you detect something, you don't automatically know the location of all non-hiding creatures in existence.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Given that some creatures like wolf have Keen Senses it stands to reason that some creatures can detect you by your smell even if they can't see or hear you.
So let me see if I have this interaction correct.
INVISIBLE
An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a Special sense. For the Purpose of Hiding, the creature is heavily obscured. The creature’s Location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves.
BOOTS OF ELVENKIND
While you wear these boots, your steps make no sound, regardless of the surface you are moving across. You also have advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks that rely on moving silently.
So I know that combat mechanic-wise, Both invisibility and the boots "Give adv. on stealth". And TECHNICALLY a creature that is invisible's position isn't completely unknown due to the "detected by noise and tracks" caveat on the invisible condition, hence attacks can target an invisible creature and invisibility isn't an automatic invulnerability. I get all this.
However, the boots, while also redundantly giving adv. on stealth, have the additional "steps make no sound" which the invisible condition specifically stated was the ONLY (other than tracks made) way that other creatures could use to know the location.
So together, Invisibility (no sight) and Boots (no sound) in an indoor scenario (no tracks) shouldn't even warrant a stealth check in my opinion (not considering blind/truesight).
Before anyone says anything: No, I am not a player trying to get away with this, I am a DM who just wants a clear interpretation. At the moment, I am FOR letting a player use this combo since if they've decked themselves out for espionage, might as well let them.
If you want to rule it that way for your table, go for it. I think an argument can be made that being stealthy can, at times, involve more than just the sound of your footsteps.
Footsteps are indeed one of several ways a PC might make noise when they are not hiding. As for not needing to make a stealth check, you usually do not need to make one unless you are trying to hide. And if you do try to hide, your stealth check will most likely be made at advantage due to being invisible and/or wearing the magic boots.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
And that's why its no sound AND no vision. I mean, I guess they could bump into a fancy vase and break it or something, but that just feels like a DM forcing reasoning
It specifies any sound made, not just your footsteps. Boots of elvenkind give advantage for not making sound, but do not automatically mean that you make no sound.
Since you are the DM, just look at the situation and ask yourself if you think the PC is unseen and unheard. If yes, then they are de facto hidden.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
but...but.. they literally say verbatim "While you wear these boots, your steps make no sound" and that gives you adv. on sneaking based on sound. I don't know how THAT part can be interpreted any differently...
Hypothetically, even if you horrifically failed a stealth roll even with the advantage wearing the boots, your detection, COULD NOT, be due to sound your feet made. The boots literally say they don't.
THIS is what I'm saying! If a PC is walking through a building while invisible wearing noise canceling boots just scoping out the place, the only way I can think they could "fail stealth" is if I as the DM said something like "you sneezed" or "you ran into the guy" and that feels really cheezy and forced to me
Yes, your steps make no sound. Characters and creatures can and do make sounds in ways other than their footsteps, which is why it's advantage, not auto-success.
Note that Invisibility doesn't inherently grant advantage on all stealth checks. Its a DM call based on the scenario.
Additionally, the following statement is incorrect (emphasis mine)
Invisibility does not give an exhaustive list of ways to detect location - it simply gives examples that reliably do so. The word 'only' is not present. For example - if the creature interacts with the environment in any way (opens a door, walks through a curtain, knocks over a vase, kicks up a bunch of dust, wades through water, makes an attack, literally stumbles into another creature), their location might reasonably be determined.
So your suggestion is one of those scenarios where its an absolutely reasonable ruling for a DM to make, but it isn't forced by the rules. And that's fine - the DM should be making rulings, as the rules can't predict every possible scenario.
As DM you're free to make any ruling of course!
Some interaction isn't correct to me;
The boots of elvenkind grant advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks that rely on moving silently, not to hide like a Cloak of Elvenkind does. Also, moving silently and being unheard is different.
Being invisible doesn't grant advantage to Stealth checks to hide, it enables you to try to hide when you otherwise couldn't.
The boots of elvenkind grant advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks to move silently, this wether you're invisible or not. As you can see, these two have no connection whatsoever if you are trying to hide rather than simply move silently. Just like if you're trying to move silently, wether you're invisible or not also won't change anything as there's no connection.
What would you do if the invisible person wearing the Boots of Elvenkind picked up a torch to light his path?
The creak of your leather armor, the jingle of a metal strap securing a weapon to your belt, the rustle of clothing, heavy breathing, the sniffles, passing gas, and many many more are things that can give away a PC’s location. (Edit: Just think of all the gear you are carrying and you can see how something can be making noise.) Invisibility doesn’t restrict being detected to your footsteps or tracks.
With the boots and invisibility you have advantage on stealth checks. Nothing more unless as a DM you choose to rule otherwise, which is totally up to you and can be a valid call on your part in a given situation.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Sounds people make while moving could include:
- clothes swishing together
- hitting walls or other obstacles
- involuntary exclamations, scratching an itch, raucous farting, coughing
Other ways of detecting an invisible creature:
- smell - perfume, soap, body odour, something they've eaten
- touch - feeling wispy air currents caused by someone moving
- sight - standing on a plush rug, floor boards bowing under weight
If your DM can't find a reason out of that lot that could explain a failed stealth check with disadvantage then there's no hope.
This.
Just because your steps make no sound doesn't mean you might not bump into a wall, or your sword might rattle in its sheath, or you get a hiccup, or your clothes rustle, or some gold pieces clink together in your belt pouch, or you drop something, or any of the 101 other ways a person can make a sound.
People's location is not automatically revealed when they are invisible.
It says: "can be" not "is".
Neither of those are guaranteed to happen and neither of those automatically happen.
So if you're invisible and running around in elvenkind boots, you're less likely to have your position detected from the sound of your footfalls compared to if not wearing the boots. But you could still reveal your location from tracks. If you attack, talk, or cast a verbal-component spell you could still reveal your location. If you do some other sufficiently loud activity, again, revealed location. But a dead sprint through the battlefield might not, even if it would other invisible people like a knight in plate whose boots clank against the marble floors. Yours don't.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
And the way you determine whether the character actually got detected is "did you succeed at your stealth check".
No, the DM tells you.
There are millions of creatures in the game world whose location is unknown to you and who aren't actively hiding. The DM tells you when you detect something, you don't automatically know the location of all non-hiding creatures in existence.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Given that some creatures like wolf have Keen Senses it stands to reason that some creatures can detect you by your smell even if they can't see or hear you.
Turn it around. Ask the players how they would feel if the GM had an NPC moving around completely undetectable.
In my experience, players take it badly.
"But don't I get to make a roll?"
"I have 25 Perception!"
"This is not fair!"