Would the Homonculus from a create homonculus spell allow the following to happen.
Say a wizard perceives through their homonculus. Due to the shared mind feature would the wizard be able to identify something, be it arcana or another mind based check through the homonculus rather than using the homonculus stat block?
So for example, homonculus finds a flower. Can the wizard then roll nature to find out what kind of flower it is?
Probably. It isn't a set in stone rule, but makes logical sense. What ability checks and when is totally up to DM, the rules only have a few examples not actual rules. Making sense is the best you can do.
Yeah thats i suppose the issue is the vagueness of the spell and ability. I was having a debate with some friends over whether it allows that much information gain through the homunculus or not because it technically has its own stat block. But if the master senses through the homunculus then that stat block just doesnt really matter at all. Thats why ive been trying to find more info. There isnt really sage advice and i always viewed this as a DM NPC spell vs player use cases. I suppose the DM ultimately controls what checks are when, but it can be hard to say 'No' without a reason other than saying 'this feels like its stretching what the spell does'.
The Homonculus spell is a crappy spell. I would have to let the wizard make the rolls.
Note, the Homonculus was originally a much lower spell but the designer knew they were basically spies and thought it was an improved version of Scrying, despite the HUGE time and risk it takes for the Homonculus to get anywhere (and return). Frankly, if they want to think of Homonculus as a better version of Scrying, the Homonculous should get a 1/day teleport to get close to the scrying subject and to return to the master once their job is done. It does not, so it really more like a 5th level spell than anything else.
Would the Homonculus from a create homonculus spell allow the following to happen.
Say a wizard perceives through their homonculus.
There is no such ability granted via the create homunculus spell or homunculus statblock, so this is impossible without an additional ability whose text we would need to answer you. The homunculus can convey what it senses to the wizard, though, which may be what you intended to ask, so I'll proceed as if you asked that.
Due to the shared mind feature
More on this later. Rules outside of a monster's statblock can get... iffy when you ask your DM to interpret.
would the wizard be able to identify something, be it arcana or another mind based check through the homonculus rather than using the homonculus stat block?
If the Homunculus were to convey what it was sensing to the wizard via Telepathic Bond, the wizard would be able to roll checks using whatever the Homonculus conveyed as the DM sees fit. For example, if the monster conveyed seeing a Sudoku puzzle, the wizard would be able to solve the puzzle without worrying about the Homunculus's stat block. However, bear in the mind that the Homunculus's stat block might limit what it is capable of sensing. For example, Homunculi can't see in the dark out to 120 feet, so a puzzle that far away in the dark would not be available to the wizard, as the Homunculus simply can't pass on what it doesn't sense.
So for example, homonculus finds a flower. Can the wizard then roll nature to find out what kind of flower it is?
Supposing your DM is allowing you to roll nature to identify a flower, you would able to do this, subject to whatever modifiers the DM decides are appropriate for being limited or enhanced by the Homunculus' senses.
Yeah thats i suppose the issue is the vagueness of the spell and ability. I was having a debate with some friends over whether it allows that much information gain through the homunculus or not because it technically has its own stat block. But if the master senses through the homunculus then that stat block just doesnt really matter at all. Thats why ive been trying to find more info. There isnt really sage advice and i always viewed this as a DM NPC spell vs player use cases. I suppose the DM ultimately controls what checks are when, but it can be hard to say 'No' without a reason other than saying 'this feels like its stretching what the spell does'.
The primary limitations are the Homunculus' senses, which are approximately:
Wis 10
Sight: Darkvision 60 feet, standard sight otherwise
Hearing, Smelling, Tasting, Touching: Standard (ignore the post above in this thread claiming Homonculi can't touch, smell, or taste; this is false)
Proficiencies: This is where things get weird. "Shared Mind" isn't in the spell or the stat block but it is in the entry, and its wording doesn't interact properly with how the game works. Here's what we know:
The Homunculus baseline has no skill or tool proficiencies.
The Homunculus's statblock grants it its creator's languages without the ability to speak them, and it has telepathy.
"Shared Mind" states that it grants your Homunculus your language proficiencies as an example of "knows everything you know". Does this apply to other proficiencies? The rest of the game uses "proficiency" as the key term, not "know". It's impossible for us to tell you how your DM will interpret this. If it applies to proficiencies, there's no telling which of your abilities will count as "knowledge" and therefore be passed on.
The important skill proficiencies for sensing are generally Perception, Investigation, and Survival.
The important tool proficiencies for sensing are generally nil, but a DM might rule that proficiency in a tool improves senses as appropriate - for example, perhaps Brewer's Tools makes you better at smelling and/or tasting.
Another important point is that Telepathic Bond and Shared Mind contradict each other - namely, the first indicates that the Homunculus chooses to pass on information, while the latter does not. One example of many where your DM's opinion of which of these is true may matter is if your Homunculus is knocked unconscious - whether or not you can feel through your Homunculus's skin while it can't due to being asleep is going to be on a per-DM basis.
Thank you for this in depth answer. It makes the most sense and breaks everything down the way i needed it broken down. I DM a couple of games, and wanted to know for my own sake and my tables sake as well. This is an awesome breakdown.
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Would the Homonculus from a create homonculus spell allow the following to happen.
Say a wizard perceives through their homonculus. Due to the shared mind feature would the wizard be able to identify something, be it arcana or another mind based check through the homonculus rather than using the homonculus stat block?
So for example, homonculus finds a flower. Can the wizard then roll nature to find out what kind of flower it is?
Probably. It isn't a set in stone rule, but makes logical sense. What ability checks and when is totally up to DM, the rules only have a few examples not actual rules. Making sense is the best you can do.
Yeah thats i suppose the issue is the vagueness of the spell and ability. I was having a debate with some friends over whether it allows that much information gain through the homunculus or not because it technically has its own stat block. But if the master senses through the homunculus then that stat block just doesnt really matter at all. Thats why ive been trying to find more info. There isnt really sage advice and i always viewed this as a DM NPC spell vs player use cases. I suppose the DM ultimately controls what checks are when, but it can be hard to say 'No' without a reason other than saying 'this feels like its stretching what the spell does'.
The Homonculus spell is a crappy spell. I would have to let the wizard make the rolls.
Note, the Homonculus was originally a much lower spell but the designer knew they were basically spies and thought it was an improved version of Scrying, despite the HUGE time and risk it takes for the Homonculus to get anywhere (and return). Frankly, if they want to think of Homonculus as a better version of Scrying, the Homonculous should get a 1/day teleport to get close to the scrying subject and to return to the master once their job is done. It does not, so it really more like a 5th level spell than anything else.
The wizard can still make any deduction based on what the homonculus senses and convey to him.
There is no such ability granted via the create homunculus spell or homunculus statblock, so this is impossible without an additional ability whose text we would need to answer you. The homunculus can convey what it senses to the wizard, though, which may be what you intended to ask, so I'll proceed as if you asked that.
More on this later. Rules outside of a monster's statblock can get... iffy when you ask your DM to interpret.
If the Homunculus were to convey what it was sensing to the wizard via Telepathic Bond, the wizard would be able to roll checks using whatever the Homonculus conveyed as the DM sees fit. For example, if the monster conveyed seeing a Sudoku puzzle, the wizard would be able to solve the puzzle without worrying about the Homunculus's stat block. However, bear in the mind that the Homunculus's stat block might limit what it is capable of sensing. For example, Homunculi can't see in the dark out to 120 feet, so a puzzle that far away in the dark would not be available to the wizard, as the Homunculus simply can't pass on what it doesn't sense.
Supposing your DM is allowing you to roll nature to identify a flower, you would able to do this, subject to whatever modifiers the DM decides are appropriate for being limited or enhanced by the Homunculus' senses.
The primary limitations are the Homunculus' senses, which are approximately:
Another important point is that Telepathic Bond and Shared Mind contradict each other - namely, the first indicates that the Homunculus chooses to pass on information, while the latter does not. One example of many where your DM's opinion of which of these is true may matter is if your Homunculus is knocked unconscious - whether or not you can feel through your Homunculus's skin while it can't due to being asleep is going to be on a per-DM basis.
Thank you for this in depth answer. It makes the most sense and breaks everything down the way i needed it broken down. I DM a couple of games, and wanted to know for my own sake and my tables sake as well. This is an awesome breakdown.