If a PC is raised as some variety of Undead, and it's still within the 1-minute window that Revivify allows for, can the PC be returned to life? Or does the new Undead status make it no longer eligible?
To be more specific, Monster A Life Drains PC and immediately turns it into a ghoul. 10 seconds later Cleric casts Revivify on the PC/Ghoul. Is it too late?
Once the PC is a ghoul it becomes a monster. As far as I know, short of a wish, there is no way to undo the change per RAW.
The spells that raise the dead typically say specifically whether they work on Undead (True Resurrection for example, specifically restores undead to its original form, but Resurrection and Raise Dead fail). Revivify is the only one that doesn’t, but it also has the most limited timeframe. Since it doesn’t specifically say the spell fails against undead (and others do) I would rule it would revive the creature if the timeframe was met. The fact that undead are “monsters” is irrelevant since technically humanoids fall under the category of “monster”; “Monster” is a mechanical classification, not an in-game one (like fiend, undead, humanoid, etc)
Well, let me put it another way. The PC is no longer dead and is instead undead and therefore no longer meets the requirements of the spell. If you cast Revivify on someone that died and has already been brought back, the spell would have no effect. Same would go for someone who has died and has come back as another creature.
Revivify doesn't say you need to touch a corpse. It specifically says "You touch a creature that has died within the last minute. That creature returns to life with 1 hit point."
So.. yeah, it would probably work. AFAIK Undead do not count as an alive creature, so you would "return them to life." The description for Zombies, at least, says "Zombies appear as they did in life," meaning they are not alive. Given that, revivify would return them to life.
Probably not the intent, though, but still... very interesting.
I suppose it would come down to whether you consider the ghoul to be the same creature that the player was before being made undead. Because if you don't consider them the same creature then the "creature that has died within the last minute" no longer applies because the ghoul hasn't died in the last minute - the player did.
But I think that would be nitpicking of the highest order. I would say it works.
Revivify doesn't say you need to touch a corpse. It specifically says "You touch a creature that has died within the last minute. That creature returns to life with 1 hit point."
So.. yeah, it would probably work. AFAIK Undead do not count as an alive creature, so you would "return them to life." The description for Zombies, at least, says "Zombies appear as they did in life," meaning they are not alive. Given that, revivify would return them to life.
Probably not the intent, though, but still... very interesting.
I can see both sides of this and would be willing to let it go.
I suppose it would come down to whether you consider the ghoul to be the same creature that the player was before being made undead. Because if you don't consider them the same creature then the "creature that has died within the last minute" no longer applies because the ghoul hasn't died in the last minute - the player did.
But I think that would be nitpicking of the highest order. I would say it works.
To be fair, the ghoul is in fact another creature with its own stat block and creature type. Everything that was the original character is lost and replaced by a completely different set of rules. However I would be willing to allow for the spell to work, assuming that the ghoul did not lose any internal organs or other body parts that a living creature would require to survive.
Yea they have different stat blocks but they're still the same entity - the same body - and I would say the same creature. But I can see why someone wouldn't.
Yea they have different stat blocks but they're still the same entity - the same body - and I would say the same creature. But I can see why someone wouldn't.
Zombies are easy...they are literally described as walking corpses. Others are more difficult as there isn’t much to describe the transformation into the undead creature. But RAW for the revivify spell I don’t see why they wouldn’t come back so long as the manner of death allowed for it (not old age, no dismemberment of vital body parts,etc)
Does changing a creatures type make it a totally new creature? I would have to imagine the answer is no. Otherwise you could pull off all kinds of nonsense with Wild Shape and Polymorph
Being polymorphed is completely different than being killed and having your corpse reanimated into an undead creature. The most notable difference is a polymorphed creature retains its alignment and personality. Most undead creatures (such as the ghoul) retain nothing of what they were before.
You have to keep in mind that the character is not turned into a new creature, the corpse left behind is. BUT this is getting more into a philosophical debate more than a rules debate.
Corpses aren't distinguished as not being creatures, though. Spells like revivify and raise dead specifically say a "dead creature," so it's safe to assume that you don't go from being a creature to an object or anything like that when you die. Raise Dead even calls out not being able to revive undead, but Revivify does not.
It's a creature turning into another creature either way. Or, more accurately, it's a creature changing its type either way. Does the fact that two extra things change when you're turned into a ghoul really make it that much different than Polymorph?
This is still a rules debate, but I concede it is a very philosophical one. Nothing wrong with that though ;)
Jeremy Crawford - "A non-undead corpse isn't considered a creature. It's effectively an object."
However I agree that this whole thing is ambiguous enough that the spell should work.
And just in case...
Jeremy Crawford - "If the text of a spell says it can target a dead creature (aka a corpse), the spell can, in fact, target a corpse. D&D is a game of exceptions, and if a rule makes the exceptional possible, the rule means it."
The use of terms to refer to corpses (objects) vs creatures that have died (creatures) is inconsistent enough that it's likely there wasn't a real intent by the writers to distinguish between the two. On November 12 Jeremy Crawford suggested that the writers really did have an intent that corpses are dead creatures not items, but he may have just been trying to be cute with his response.
Spells like Speak with Dead use "corpse" in a way that is interchangeable with "dead creature": the "corpse" is referred to as knowing languages, not being undead (a creature type), "knowing" things, having a soul, etc. which all care very much about who/what the corpse was prior to death.
Spells like Animate Dead and Create Undead use "corpse" in a way that is synonymous with a "pile of bones," so as an object. The corpse is no more than a pile of materials to be used up by the spell, and the spell cares very little about who/what the corpse was prior to death other than that it be the correct size and shape to animate.
If there's any text that would interfere with the use of Revivify on a fresh ghoul, I would suggest that it is probably the wording that the "corpse becomes a ghoul." The corpse is no longer a corpse, because it becomes something else magically. Revivify does not need a "corpse" but it does require "a creature." If the creature became a corpse when it died, and then the corpse became a (different) creature, then the original creature is gone?
That's my instinct in a vacuum, but at a table, I think that trying desperately to Revivify the slobbering ghoul of your recently deceased friend as it tries to chew your face off would be a great table moment which the DM should lean into :)
MM p.315 says "Once turned into a zombie, a creature can't be restored to life except by powerful magic, such as a resurrection spell". Also fwiw, a Jeremy Crawford tweet said ""If you cast revivify on a zombie, the creature returns as a zombie. The spell doesn't change creature type."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
If a PC is raised as some variety of Undead, and it's still within the 1-minute window that Revivify allows for, can the PC be returned to life? Or does the new Undead status make it no longer eligible?
To be more specific, Monster A Life Drains PC and immediately turns it into a ghoul. 10 seconds later Cleric casts Revivify on the PC/Ghoul. Is it too late?
Once the PC is a ghoul it becomes a monster. As far as I know, short of a wish, there is no way to undo the change per RAW.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
The spells that raise the dead typically say specifically whether they work on Undead (True Resurrection for example, specifically restores undead to its original form, but Resurrection and Raise Dead fail). Revivify is the only one that doesn’t, but it also has the most limited timeframe. Since it doesn’t specifically say the spell fails against undead (and others do) I would rule it would revive the creature if the timeframe was met. The fact that undead are “monsters” is irrelevant since technically humanoids fall under the category of “monster”; “Monster” is a mechanical classification, not an in-game one (like fiend, undead, humanoid, etc)
Both seem like interesting points to consider!
Well, let me put it another way. The PC is no longer dead and is instead undead and therefore no longer meets the requirements of the spell. If you cast Revivify on someone that died and has already been brought back, the spell would have no effect. Same would go for someone who has died and has come back as another creature.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Huh, this is an interesting question.
Revivify doesn't say you need to touch a corpse. It specifically says "You touch a creature that has died within the last minute. That creature returns to life with 1 hit point."
So.. yeah, it would probably work. AFAIK Undead do not count as an alive creature, so you would "return them to life." The description for Zombies, at least, says "Zombies appear as they did in life," meaning they are not alive. Given that, revivify would return them to life.
Probably not the intent, though, but still... very interesting.
I suppose it would come down to whether you consider the ghoul to be the same creature that the player was before being made undead. Because if you don't consider them the same creature then the "creature that has died within the last minute" no longer applies because the ghoul hasn't died in the last minute - the player did.
But I think that would be nitpicking of the highest order. I would say it works.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
I can see both sides of this and would be willing to let it go.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
To be fair, the ghoul is in fact another creature with its own stat block and creature type. Everything that was the original character is lost and replaced by a completely different set of rules. However I would be willing to allow for the spell to work, assuming that the ghoul did not lose any internal organs or other body parts that a living creature would require to survive.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Yea they have different stat blocks but they're still the same entity - the same body - and I would say the same creature. But I can see why someone wouldn't.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Zombies are easy...they are literally described as walking corpses. Others are more difficult as there isn’t much to describe the transformation into the undead creature. But RAW for the revivify spell I don’t see why they wouldn’t come back so long as the manner of death allowed for it (not old age, no dismemberment of vital body parts,etc)
Does changing a creatures type make it a totally new creature? I would have to imagine the answer is no. Otherwise you could pull off all kinds of nonsense with Wild Shape and Polymorph
Being polymorphed is completely different than being killed and having your corpse reanimated into an undead creature. The most notable difference is a polymorphed creature retains its alignment and personality. Most undead creatures (such as the ghoul) retain nothing of what they were before.
You have to keep in mind that the character is not turned into a new creature, the corpse left behind is. BUT this is getting more into a philosophical debate more than a rules debate.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Corpses aren't distinguished as not being creatures, though. Spells like revivify and raise dead specifically say a "dead creature," so it's safe to assume that you don't go from being a creature to an object or anything like that when you die. Raise Dead even calls out not being able to revive undead, but Revivify does not.
It's a creature turning into another creature either way. Or, more accurately, it's a creature changing its type either way. Does the fact that two extra things change when you're turned into a ghoul really make it that much different than Polymorph?
This is still a rules debate, but I concede it is a very philosophical one. Nothing wrong with that though ;)
Jeremy Crawford - "A non-undead corpse isn't considered a creature. It's effectively an object."
However I agree that this whole thing is ambiguous enough that the spell should work.
And just in case...
Jeremy Crawford - "If the text of a spell says it can target a dead creature (aka a corpse), the spell can, in fact, target a corpse.
D&D is a game of exceptions, and if a rule makes the exceptional possible, the rule means it."
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
The use of terms to refer to corpses (objects) vs creatures that have died (creatures) is inconsistent enough that it's likely there wasn't a real intent by the writers to distinguish between the two. On November 12 Jeremy Crawford suggested that the writers really did have an intent that corpses are dead creatures not items, but he may have just been trying to be cute with his response.
Spells like Speak with Dead use "corpse" in a way that is interchangeable with "dead creature": the "corpse" is referred to as knowing languages, not being undead (a creature type), "knowing" things, having a soul, etc. which all care very much about who/what the corpse was prior to death.
Spells like Animate Dead and Create Undead use "corpse" in a way that is synonymous with a "pile of bones," so as an object. The corpse is no more than a pile of materials to be used up by the spell, and the spell cares very little about who/what the corpse was prior to death other than that it be the correct size and shape to animate.
If there's any text that would interfere with the use of Revivify on a fresh ghoul, I would suggest that it is probably the wording that the "corpse becomes a ghoul." The corpse is no longer a corpse, because it becomes something else magically. Revivify does not need a "corpse" but it does require "a creature." If the creature became a corpse when it died, and then the corpse became a (different) creature, then the original creature is gone?
That's my instinct in a vacuum, but at a table, I think that trying desperately to Revivify the slobbering ghoul of your recently deceased friend as it tries to chew your face off would be a great table moment which the DM should lean into :)
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Come on WotC, creating consistent rules language isn't that hard. If it were, every video game would be a garbled broken mess.
^^^this
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
The employees at Larian Studios must be having a lot of sleepless nights, trying to turn this mess into a coherent video game.
MM p.315 says "Once turned into a zombie, a creature can't be restored to life except by powerful magic, such as a resurrection spell". Also fwiw, a Jeremy Crawford tweet said ""If you cast revivify on a zombie, the creature returns as a zombie. The spell doesn't change creature type."