I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this. I, essentially, have a sniper archer in one of my games. 6 levels of Battlemaster Fighter, 4 levels of Inquisitive Rogue and 2 levels of Warlock. What they have been doing for combat encounters, at least in ones where they're ambushing a target, is they set up in a perch and use Mask of Many Faces to change their appearance into a camouflaged look and then cast Minor Illusion around themselves in the perch to mimic the area in which they've perched. Advantage on stealth, as they're using two forms of illusory cover and the added bonus of having a miss not give away their position. Does this sound to OP to anyone? I'm not saying that it is because it really only works if they're stationary. I'm curious though how this would be handled in other games.
That’s using Minor Illusion, which is a cantrip, and Disguise Self, which is a 1st level spell, to duplicate the effect of Improved Invisibility, which is a 4th level spell.
I wouldn’t let that work. Minor Illusion can create an object that’s no larger than a 5’ cube and Disguise Self can give you a set of camouflage clothing that will give you advantage on your stealth check to hide. But as soon as you attack you’ll lose your stealth unless you hide again. But it is realistic for you to still have partial cover after attacking with your strategy.
No reason to give advantage on the stealth roll to hide at all - they are using illusion magic to grant them even an attempt to Hide.
A miss would still give away their position, an arrow flying through the air can be seen by all combatants - so the general location from which it came would be known.
Disguise Self doesn't give any benefits to stealth, even if there's a logical reason that it might. Minor Illusion does not improve stealth either, however, it can be used to Hide in situations where no real cover is available. Being able to miss with an attack without revealing your position is a unique feature of the Skulker feat. Overall they're asking for too much... I get the logic behind what they're asking for, but that's one of many situations where D&D functions more as a Game and less like a Simulation.
I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this. I, essentially, have a sniper archer in one of my games. 6 levels of Battlemaster Fighter, 4 levels of Inquisitive Rogue and 2 levels of Warlock. What they have been doing for combat encounters, at least in ones where they're ambushing a target, is they set up in a perch and use Mask of Many Faces to change their appearance into a camouflaged look and then cast Minor Illusion around themselves in the perch to mimic the area in which they've perched. Advantage on stealth, as they're using two forms of illusory cover and the added bonus of having a miss not give away their position. Does this sound to OP to anyone? I'm not saying that it is because it really only works if they're stationary. I'm curious though how this would be handled in other games.
Deciding to give them advantage on their stealth check is up to the DM. It isn't RAW but it is certainly within what a DM could decide based on the circumstances.
However, there are some things to consider.
1) RAW, a creature gives away its location when it makes an attack. This does not matter if the creature is invisible or anything else - when an attack is made the creature gives away its location. The only way a miss does not give away their location is if they also have the Skulker feat.
2) In the case of minor illusion "Physical interaction with the image reveals it to be an illusion, because things can pass through it." When the attacker shoots an arrow through the minor illusion, the interaction would reveal that it is an illusion. DM call or adjudication on whether this is noticed. However, since the attacker gives away their location and an arrow came out of this location, then it is certainly within RAW to say that the illusion disappears as soon as the attacker shoots.
3) Disguise self is NOT a cloak of elvenkind. Making it look like camouflage doesn't do anything unless the DM wants it to.
4) A creature can not hide when they can be seen. If minor illusion has been revealed as an illusion then it provides no visual cover. No matter what the creature is wearing they can then be seen and can not hide again no matter what their stealth check. They would need to move behind total cover (or be a wood elf that can hide when lightly obscured by natural surroundings or has the Skulker feat).
The end result, is that the character will get one shot with their location being unknown if they successfully hid from the target's passive perception. After that, their location is known, they don't have minor illusion to hide behind so they are visible, and can't hide again without appropriate cover to hide behind.
If the character has the Skulker feat then they don't reveal themselves on a miss and can hide when lightly obscured. However, if they don't have this feat then you are effectively giving them the feat by allowing them to do these things with Disguise Self+minor illusion which is a bit extreme. I'd suggest that if the character wants to continue playing this way they should pick up the Skulker feat.
One thing not mentioned here is sound. Releasing an arrow will always make an audible noise. Noise gives away direction hence why your are hard to see until you attack. Don't forget smell as well.
It is a novel idea, but sounds like a lot of work for the encounter. I don't play a lot of stealth characters so don't think to deeply about this kind of combat.
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I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!
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I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this. I, essentially, have a sniper archer in one of my games. 6 levels of Battlemaster Fighter, 4 levels of Inquisitive Rogue and 2 levels of Warlock. What they have been doing for combat encounters, at least in ones where they're ambushing a target, is they set up in a perch and use Mask of Many Faces to change their appearance into a camouflaged look and then cast Minor Illusion around themselves in the perch to mimic the area in which they've perched. Advantage on stealth, as they're using two forms of illusory cover and the added bonus of having a miss not give away their position. Does this sound to OP to anyone? I'm not saying that it is because it really only works if they're stationary. I'm curious though how this would be handled in other games.
That’s using Minor Illusion, which is a cantrip, and Disguise Self, which is a 1st level spell, to duplicate the effect of Improved Invisibility, which is a 4th level spell.
I wouldn’t let that work. Minor Illusion can create an object that’s no larger than a 5’ cube and Disguise Self can give you a set of camouflage clothing that will give you advantage on your stealth check to hide. But as soon as you attack you’ll lose your stealth unless you hide again. But it is realistic for you to still have partial cover after attacking with your strategy.
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No reason to give advantage on the stealth roll to hide at all - they are using illusion magic to grant them even an attempt to Hide.
A miss would still give away their position, an arrow flying through the air can be seen by all combatants - so the general location from which it came would be known.
Disguise Self doesn't give any benefits to stealth, even if there's a logical reason that it might. Minor Illusion does not improve stealth either, however, it can be used to Hide in situations where no real cover is available. Being able to miss with an attack without revealing your position is a unique feature of the Skulker feat. Overall they're asking for too much... I get the logic behind what they're asking for, but that's one of many situations where D&D functions more as a Game and less like a Simulation.
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Deciding to give them advantage on their stealth check is up to the DM. It isn't RAW but it is certainly within what a DM could decide based on the circumstances.
However, there are some things to consider.
1) RAW, a creature gives away its location when it makes an attack. This does not matter if the creature is invisible or anything else - when an attack is made the creature gives away its location. The only way a miss does not give away their location is if they also have the Skulker feat.
2) In the case of minor illusion "Physical interaction with the image reveals it to be an illusion, because things can pass through it." When the attacker shoots an arrow through the minor illusion, the interaction would reveal that it is an illusion. DM call or adjudication on whether this is noticed. However, since the attacker gives away their location and an arrow came out of this location, then it is certainly within RAW to say that the illusion disappears as soon as the attacker shoots.
3) Disguise self is NOT a cloak of elvenkind. Making it look like camouflage doesn't do anything unless the DM wants it to.
4) A creature can not hide when they can be seen. If minor illusion has been revealed as an illusion then it provides no visual cover. No matter what the creature is wearing they can then be seen and can not hide again no matter what their stealth check. They would need to move behind total cover (or be a wood elf that can hide when lightly obscured by natural surroundings or has the Skulker feat).
The end result, is that the character will get one shot with their location being unknown if they successfully hid from the target's passive perception. After that, their location is known, they don't have minor illusion to hide behind so they are visible, and can't hide again without appropriate cover to hide behind.
If the character has the Skulker feat then they don't reveal themselves on a miss and can hide when lightly obscured. However, if they don't have this feat then you are effectively giving them the feat by allowing them to do these things with Disguise Self+minor illusion which is a bit extreme. I'd suggest that if the character wants to continue playing this way they should pick up the Skulker feat.
One thing not mentioned here is sound. Releasing an arrow will always make an audible noise. Noise gives away direction hence why your are hard to see until you attack. Don't forget smell as well.
It is a novel idea, but sounds like a lot of work for the encounter. I don't play a lot of stealth characters so don't think to deeply about this kind of combat.
I am not sure what my Spirit Animal is. But whatever that thing is, I am pretty sure it has rabies!