Does anyone know any official errata on this? Attacking a swarm that is in your square without hitting you?
My DM has decided that if someone attacks a swarm that is inside your square, you also take the damage. My somewhat trigger happy party cut me down in their gusto to defeat a swarm of baby mimic gold coins. I mean it was a really cool encounter, but I was more than a little upset and called it a day right there. I would really like some kind of official ruling on this before I head back to the table.
In previous editions, it was common for swarms to state in their descriptions that attacking the swarm while it is covering a character, did damage to the character. A lot of DMs continue this, as do I.
If the player says, "I take my sword and scrape away the spiders" - then I allow them to make an attack and inflict damage just on the swarm.
If the player says, "I'm going to shoot an arrow at the swarm" - then the character is taking half that damage.
There are no rules for or against it in 5e, it is up to the DM.
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Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
RAW, an attack only has one target unless a feature or effect says otherwise.
Let's test that. Let's say I have a ballista, and you stand holding a 10" piece of parchment in front of your character's chest. I aim the ballista at the paper, not your character, at the paper (behind held up against your chest). I roll to hit, and strike the paper. Does your character take any damage? Do you know of a single DM that would rule you don't. Even if the DM compares the to hit roll to your AC, and if the to hit roll against the paper would also be high enough to penetrate your armor, do you know of a single DM that would rule you do not take damage?
Back to the OP, there is no official rule in 5E that treats swarms as your DM is playing them. That said, the DM is entirely within their purview to make a house rule. I wouldn’t have any issue with that, as long as it became clear what was happening the first time someone did damage to their ally when striking the co-located swarm. After that, the issue becomes your party’s tactical decision making. Does it make sense to knock out your ally if it is the only way to remove the threat?
RAW, an attack only has one target unless a feature or effect says otherwise.
Let's test that. Let's say I have a ballista, and you stand holding a 10" piece of parchment in front of your character's chest. I aim the ballista at the paper, not your character, at the paper (behind held up against your chest). I roll to hit, and strike the paper. Does your character take any damage? Do you know of a single DM that would rule you don't. Even if the DM compares the to hit roll to your AC, and if the to hit roll against the paper would also be high enough to penetrate your armor, do you know of a single DM that would rule you do not take damage?
The RAW answer to that is that rules aren't physics. You can't expect a game system to make logical sense when you specifically engineer a scenario where general rules don't apply. You can also argue that, RAI, the paper isn't a valid target.
Let's test that. Let's say I have a ballista, and you stand holding a 10" piece of parchment in front of your character's chest. I aim the ballista at the paper, not your character, at the paper (behind held up against your chest). I roll to hit, and strike the paper. Does your character take any damage? Do you know of a single DM that would rule you don't. Even if the DM compares the to hit roll to your AC, and if the to hit roll against the paper would also be high enough to penetrate your armor, do you know of a single DM that would rule you do not take damage?
You want to add your version of realism to a game where an average human occupies a 5-foot cube and you do that by presuming that a ballista can hit a 10" piece of paper?
In the abstraction, the target of the attack is not in a particular facing, is not standing still, and is not occupying a particular section of that cube. This isn't the game system for gritty realism with blow through attacks or chunky salsa explosions. If you attack the paper, the attack stops there. If you attack the creature holding the paper, a hit damages the character and the paper is unharmed.
That is RAW and anything else is your house rules and should be mentioned at session zero or at the latest before actions are decided.
Does anyone know any official errata on this? Attacking a swarm that is in your square without hitting you?
My DM has decided that if someone attacks a swarm that is inside your square, you also take the damage. My somewhat trigger happy party cut me down in their gusto to defeat a swarm of baby mimic gold coins. I mean it was a really cool encounter, but I was more than a little upset and called it a day right there. I would really like some kind of official ruling on this before I head back to the table.
Mark Charke
In previous editions, it was common for swarms to state in their descriptions that attacking the swarm while it is covering a character, did damage to the character. A lot of DMs continue this, as do I.
If the player says, "I take my sword and scrape away the spiders" - then I allow them to make an attack and inflict damage just on the swarm.
If the player says, "I'm going to shoot an arrow at the swarm" - then the character is taking half that damage.
There are no rules for or against it in 5e, it is up to the DM.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
RAW, an attack only has one target unless a feature or effect says otherwise.
Let's test that. Let's say I have a ballista, and you stand holding a 10" piece of parchment in front of your character's chest. I aim the ballista at the paper, not your character, at the paper (behind held up against your chest). I roll to hit, and strike the paper. Does your character take any damage? Do you know of a single DM that would rule you don't. Even if the DM compares the to hit roll to your AC, and if the to hit roll against the paper would also be high enough to penetrate your armor, do you know of a single DM that would rule you do not take damage?
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
Back to the OP, there is no official rule in 5E that treats swarms as your DM is playing them. That said, the DM is entirely within their purview to make a house rule. I wouldn’t have any issue with that, as long as it became clear what was happening the first time someone did damage to their ally when striking the co-located swarm. After that, the issue becomes your party’s tactical decision making. Does it make sense to knock out your ally if it is the only way to remove the threat?
The RAW answer to that is that rules aren't physics. You can't expect a game system to make logical sense when you specifically engineer a scenario where general rules don't apply. You can also argue that, RAI, the paper isn't a valid target.
An attack target a creature you choose, regardless if it occupy a space with another creature.
Area of effect on the other hand could target all creatures in a given space/square.
Correction: There are no rules that allow for it, but some DMs add it as a house rule.
You want to add your version of realism to a game where an average human occupies a 5-foot cube and you do that by presuming that a ballista can hit a 10" piece of paper?
In the abstraction, the target of the attack is not in a particular facing, is not standing still, and is not occupying a particular section of that cube. This isn't the game system for gritty realism with blow through attacks or chunky salsa explosions. If you attack the paper, the attack stops there. If you attack the creature holding the paper, a hit damages the character and the paper is unharmed.
That is RAW and anything else is your house rules and should be mentioned at session zero or at the latest before actions are decided.
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My houserulings.