There might be a situation come up soon in my campaign where this might happen:
Lets say a player character has been engulfed / swallowed. If another player character uses polymorph on the creature that engulfed the other PC, what would happen to the PC already inside the creature? Would they become part of the new creature or if polymorphed into a smaller creature, would they essentially be expelled or otherwise explode from the belly of the beast?
The ease of play solution would seem to be to have the engulfed/swallowed creature meld into the new form like gear. The RAW solution would have to be messier since creatures are not objects. Perhaps come at the question from a different angle? Should this interaction add to the fun/comic element of the game or to the dangerous/gory part of the game?
I don’t think there are clear rules for handling this, but personally I would just have the swallowed PC be expelled into an adjacent space.
The three obvious choices I can think of are:
The polymorphed creature keeps the target swallowed
Your suggestion - the swallowed creature is expelled to a space next to the polymorphed creature
The polymorphed creature somehow takes damage from the newly-massive swallowed target
Of the three, I think the strictest reading of RAW would be #1 just because the creature is swallowed, and we have no guidance to change that situation. But I don't care for the idea of a squirrel with an elf in its belly. I would probably go with what you suggest, although there's nothing other than common sense to dictate it should happen like that. The third option is not only not supported by the rules, but what happens when the squirrel takes three points of damage or whatnot and polymorphs back into the original creature? You're right back where you started.
as noted, it will depend on the rule of cool, as noted before.
however, it is also dependent on if the PC is still alive. If not, well, they a part of the critter now. If so, well, technically, they are a part of the critter. But maybe you want them to be separate (hence the Q) so maybe they are just going to get shrunk down to fit.
I would rule they are part of the beastly and polymorphing it would kill them, but I am a DM who enjoys the rule of cool stories, and so it would depend.
swallowing whole and alive also means stuff they can do from within.
ok, edit: they would be part of the creature and if the creature is reduced to 0 hit points and they revert, would return to themselves, still stuck in the belly.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
The polymorphed creature keeps the target swallowed
Your suggestion - the swallowed creature is expelled to a space next to the polymorphed creature
The polymorphed creature somehow takes damage from the newly-massive swallowed target
If you go with answer #2 then polymorph is now the go-to cure for intellect devouers, mind flayer tadpoles, and any other nasty parasites and invaders.
Which is not necessarily bad.
It also undervalues spells like remove curse and greater restoration.
The polymorphed creature keeps the target swallowed
Your suggestion - the swallowed creature is expelled to a space next to the polymorphed creature
The polymorphed creature somehow takes damage from the newly-massive swallowed target
If you go with answer #2 then polymorph is now the go-to cure for intellect devouers, mind flayer tadpoles, and any other nasty parasites and invaders.
Which is not necessarily bad.
It also undervalues spells like remove curse and greater restoration.
An Intellect Devourer eats the brain of the target and the target can be save by a wish. But once it’s in there you might be able to get it out by polymorph but it could also considered part of the body. Either way the body is dead once the ID is gone.
I think if a party member is swallowed, then a third level spell slot is an acceptable cost for getting them out, and I would rule on the side of the party member being expelled if the target fails their save.
The polymorphed creature keeps the target swallowed
Your suggestion - the swallowed creature is expelled to a space next to the polymorphed creature
The polymorphed creature somehow takes damage from the newly-massive swallowed target
Of the three, I think the strictest reading of RAW would be #1 just because the creature is swallowed, and we have no guidance to change that situation.
While I can understand why you say #1 (rules say nothing, so you do nothing) I think this is a clear case where something needs to happen because we're only given guidance for how to handle carried equipment, not internal creatures.
Personally I'd say #2 is the most obviously applicable; I only checked a couple of creatures but the ones I could remember that can swallow targets, like the tarrasque usually state that if the swallowing creature dies, the swallowed creature escapes. Now obviously casting polymorph on a target doesn't actually "kill" it, but at the same time the original creature effectively no longer exists, so it may as well be considered "dead" for the purposes of its swallow rules.
Definitely shaky in rules as written, but I don't see any other way in the rules to handle it that seems reasonable, as a Tiny creature with a Medium creature inside it is clearly impossible, and there is no guidance for what kind of damage exploding out of a creature should do, and it potentially only causes more problems (what if the damage kills the new form, causing it to revert. Is the swallowed creature now back in the original form's stomach?).
Monster stat-blocks really aren't written with shape changing in mind, so I think treating the old form as "dead" is the most "correct" way to handle this and similar cases, though you'll still need to make judgement calls on anything like a built-in death ward (does it block polymorph? Probably shouldn't).
I would however say that there's an option #4 which is that a DM could reject a new form if it's currently impossible for some reason; this is similar to cases where you polymorph a creature into something larger while in a space that can't hold the new form, as there aren't really any rules for that either (though some similar effects prevent it, while polymorph does not) though the suggestions for improvising damage do cover crushing at least in that case if a DM wants to allow it with damage. While we could use improvised damage in this case, crushing makes sense for the swallowed creature, but we don't really have any clues for what "exploding out of something" should count as.
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There might be a situation come up soon in my campaign where this might happen:
Lets say a player character has been engulfed / swallowed. If another player character uses polymorph on the creature that engulfed the other PC, what would happen to the PC already inside the creature? Would they become part of the new creature or if polymorphed into a smaller creature, would they essentially be expelled or otherwise explode from the belly of the beast?
The ease of play solution would seem to be to have the engulfed/swallowed creature meld into the new form like gear. The RAW solution would have to be messier since creatures are not objects. Perhaps come at the question from a different angle? Should this interaction add to the fun/comic element of the game or to the dangerous/gory part of the game?
I don’t think there are clear rules for handling this, but personally I would just have the swallowed PC be expelled into an adjacent space.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Polymorph will only affect the targeted creature. Since there is no RAW for it, it is up to the DM what happens to the swallowed creature.
The three obvious choices I can think of are:
Of the three, I think the strictest reading of RAW would be #1 just because the creature is swallowed, and we have no guidance to change that situation. But I don't care for the idea of a squirrel with an elf in its belly. I would probably go with what you suggest, although there's nothing other than common sense to dictate it should happen like that. The third option is not only not supported by the rules, but what happens when the squirrel takes three points of damage or whatnot and polymorphs back into the original creature? You're right back where you started.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
So…
as noted, it will depend on the rule of cool, as noted before.
however, it is also dependent on if the PC is still alive. If not, well, they a part of the critter now. If so, well, technically, they are a part of the critter. But maybe you want them to be separate (hence the Q) so maybe they are just going to get shrunk down to fit.
I would rule they are part of the beastly and polymorphing it would kill them, but I am a DM who enjoys the rule of cool stories, and so it would depend.
swallowing whole and alive also means stuff they can do from within.
ok, edit: they would be part of the creature and if the creature is reduced to 0 hit points and they revert, would return to themselves, still stuck in the belly.
I took a gander at the spell.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
If you go with answer #2 then polymorph is now the go-to cure for intellect devouers, mind flayer tadpoles, and any other nasty parasites and invaders.
Which is not necessarily bad.
It also undervalues spells like remove curse and greater restoration.
An Intellect Devourer eats the brain of the target and the target can be save by a wish. But once it’s in there you might be able to get it out by polymorph but it could also considered part of the body. Either way the body is dead once the ID is gone.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I think if a party member is swallowed, then a third level spell slot is an acceptable cost for getting them out, and I would rule on the side of the party member being expelled if the target fails their save.
While I can understand why you say #1 (rules say nothing, so you do nothing) I think this is a clear case where something needs to happen because we're only given guidance for how to handle carried equipment, not internal creatures.
Personally I'd say #2 is the most obviously applicable; I only checked a couple of creatures but the ones I could remember that can swallow targets, like the tarrasque usually state that if the swallowing creature dies, the swallowed creature escapes. Now obviously casting polymorph on a target doesn't actually "kill" it, but at the same time the original creature effectively no longer exists, so it may as well be considered "dead" for the purposes of its swallow rules.
Definitely shaky in rules as written, but I don't see any other way in the rules to handle it that seems reasonable, as a Tiny creature with a Medium creature inside it is clearly impossible, and there is no guidance for what kind of damage exploding out of a creature should do, and it potentially only causes more problems (what if the damage kills the new form, causing it to revert. Is the swallowed creature now back in the original form's stomach?).
Monster stat-blocks really aren't written with shape changing in mind, so I think treating the old form as "dead" is the most "correct" way to handle this and similar cases, though you'll still need to make judgement calls on anything like a built-in death ward (does it block polymorph? Probably shouldn't).
I would however say that there's an option #4 which is that a DM could reject a new form if it's currently impossible for some reason; this is similar to cases where you polymorph a creature into something larger while in a space that can't hold the new form, as there aren't really any rules for that either (though some similar effects prevent it, while polymorph does not) though the suggestions for improvising damage do cover crushing at least in that case if a DM wants to allow it with damage. While we could use improvised damage in this case, crushing makes sense for the swallowed creature, but we don't really have any clues for what "exploding out of something" should count as.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.